Have you looked at used machines at sites like wolf machinery, raymond travel (they have a second hand 20kg conche/refiner at this moment, this is not the best machine to make good chocolate)?

There may be somebody selling second hand machines closer to you.

It's a little hard to translate what you mean by cheap enough as scale and costs differ around the world.

You may find out that milk chocolates present more of a challenge than dark ones.

I would be interested in why you don't want to use lecithin? It's a vital ingredient in chocolate making.

Rogerio - ah, cost is always an issue, no?  if i can get the messaging system to work i'll send you the name of a company that makes good small sized z blade mixers, they're not as conventional as you might think, but work well.

Hey Clay, great to know. We were going to vend at the chocolate fest but just decided to wait till next year. I'll be there for one of the days and would love to meet you. We live near downtown Oly and would be around on the 6th as well. I still like the sound of the Aura as we discussed...just making sure there's not a more reasonable (and/or used) option at this point. 

We're currently doing six 3-lb batches in a day, manually. Because we're spooning the chocolate into 90 molds per batch and then filling and swirling, I'd say it takes the two of us a good ten minutes once we get started. At that point, it's a guessing game. We try to keep the bowl on and off the heat, but it's not as precise as I'd like it to be, and we don't have the hands to keep it constantly on the move. 

One big plus of having a machine that could hold it in temper would be the relief from feeling rushed. The EZTemper would relieve a lot of manual wrist work and time, but yea, we'd still be in a time crunch once tempered. Worth a grand to us at this point, definitely. The next step up would be something like a Chocovision Rev Delta. We'd still need to be manually spooning out the chocolate, and we may run into trouble (?) since some of our chocolate has coffee grounds and chopped nuts in it, but it'd definitely improve the flow. If it works with stuff in the chocolate, I think it could definitely be worth the $2250. One downside is that it won't work if we decide to do some honey-sweetened chocolates, whereas I think the Aura could. The ~$7k Aura looks amazing and, assuming it wouldn't have trouble with things like coffee and nuts, I think it could be an excellent investment. 

Whatever we get, I'd like to know that we can get some good quick support if something goes wrong. I was planning on talking to FBM at the choc fest, but could definitely benefit from more of your expertise... 

Thank you for chiming in.

Stephen

Great Question Mark,

I have heard great things about you so I know I would love to take one of these classes.  Some subjects that I would love to see are the following:

1. Panning for the artisan

2. Artisan Candy Bars

3. Sugar Confections -- toffee, nougat, lollipops, marshmallow, etc...

Where would you host these classes? Do you know approximately how much they would cost to attend?

Thank you!!!

Daniel

Stephen: The EZTemper is not a tempering machine, but it's a good approach for small production. The EZTemper produces crystallized cocoa butter that seeds the chocolate and tempers it through mixing. You are still working in small batches and have to worry about keeping the temperature in the right range until you've used up the batch. I know some FBM customers who use both: they use the Aura for the chocolate they use a lot of, and use the EZTemper for the chocolates they use in smaller quantities for decorating or special short runs. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I see you are in Olympia. I spent a year at Evergreen and am currently slated to return to campus on 6 October to give a lecture/tasting to a class. I am not sure of my schedule that day and hope to catch up with at least one friend who's still in town. But who knows? Will you be in Seattle at the end of the month? We could meet there as well.

I'm giving up on opening a second shop so I'm selling off all the equipment I've collected.Includes a 6" enrober(listed seperately also) a Chocolare Panniing drum, Chocolate holding tank(water jacketed), Chocotec Chocolate tempering machine (includes a vibrating platform) A 4 foot curved glass Chocolate Display Case(the compressor turns on but does not cool down,will need work).

 This is a great oppurtunity to save alot of money.Located in Az.All this is going on ebay soon.

 For questions and pics contact me at chocofintruffles@aol.com

Hi , I have a 6" Perfect chocolate enrober.All it's components work and this unit is still manufactured by Perfect inc in canada so support is available.I am asking $6,000.

   Any questions or for pics contact me at chocofintruffles@aol.com

I am a retired confectioner (40+ years), now consulting, and a member of the PMCA Education Committee.  PMCA currently offers several courses during the year on a variety of topics, some of them I have led or taught.  However they are targeted more for the larger companies.  So they get very technical, including the chemistry behind the confections, covering the basic confectioney forms a large company would use, and also cover equipment for mass production.  We have had several artisan confectioners attend in the past but their major complaint is that the course is too technical, too much time spent on industrial sized equipment, and a lack of time spent on how to generate their own new ideas and artisinal techniques. 

We are now looking to offer courses geared more to the artisan confectioners by limiting the chemistry, eliminating production equipment discussion, and offer more into what an artisinal shop owner would be more interested in such as how to make more varieties of a particular confection, understanding what makes it work and how to alter your way.  Also to reduce the course length (to reduce cost) from 4-5 days to maybe 3.  As an example a caramel course would be more on unique ingredient use, forms, and techniques they could use to achieve color, function, and texture.  It would have about 3/4 or more of the time hands on making these products.  However they would have instructors who could explain the "why" of how things do or do not work as they have the fundamental chemistry knowledge as well as artisinal techniques.

I am looking for your ideas on what would make your ideal course:

- confectionery types / topics / depth / length

In other words, looking for your help to design courses that would be of the most value to the artisan.

This is your chance to help design what you want rather than try to find something close to it.

Thank you

Mark Heim

Hi Sebastian,

Thanks for your comments. I am thinking 1metric ton/month capacity. The flagship will be ~70% cocoa contents, and I intend not to use any lecithin or other emulsifiers. Milk and other inclusions are possible, but I assume my most difficult recipe will be the two ingredients one.

And I agree with you, the Z-blade seems a more "traditional" approach for a conche. The problem for me is to find one small (and cheap) enough.

Hello,

Although I make sure to winnow thoroughly I am wondering if the few remain husk/skin left on the nibs result in an acid aroma, or other type. Thanks for your experience.

Hi everyone,

We make truffle-like products that are stored in the fridge (mainly because the filling isn't firm at room temp, and the coldness adds to the experience). In order to keep the chocolate from being too snappy in the fridge, I add about 6% coconut oil. I do want the chocolate to look shiny and not bloom, but I don't care about holding a perfect tempered snap. 

While the coconut oil affects the crystaline structure and prevents it from having a perfect sheen, tempering definitely does help. The chocolate doesn't bloom (at least not as quickly) and doesn't melt to the touch like it would otherwise. 

The one thing I haven't figured out is why sometimes the chocolate will appear to shrink (see link) while most times it doesn't. I love this look. 

http://www.cobbstreats.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/pb-cup-liners-225x300.jpg

I'm curious to hear about other stories of refrigerated chocolate products, as I know most of you don't do this sort of thing. 

Thanks in advance!

Thanks Sebastian, I'll check it out...

Thank your for your nformations kerry. I am using 10 % of cacao butter in my chocolate.

Welcome Rogerio - you're right in the middle of Brazillian cocoa country!  Lots of info here, i'm sure you'll find it helpful - good luck!

Stephen - i f you're looking at smaller volumes (ie not hundreds of lbs per day) - you might want to consider the EZ Temper.  it's a pretty different approach from standard tempering machines, but works quite well.

it'll work ok, but there's simply not enough energy input for that to be of much use from a flavor modification or serious emsulsification standpoint.  I've had many of these built, and they work alright, but certainly are not best in class.

Another alterantive you may wish to consider might be a z-blade mixer that's been jacketed for temperature control.

What quantities are you looking to make, and what characteristics are imprtant to you? (ie lower fat chocolates, dark chocolates, milk chocolates with flavor development, etc?)

Hi,

Looking for a source for quality roasted organic cocoa liquor, fair trade / ethically sourced, drops or plates/blocks. Please let me know if you have any, or have a trusted source.

Thank you!

Stephen

Hi chocolatiers,

We're looking for our first tempering machine. I like the specs on the FBM Aura - 4kg bowl is enough, dosing pedal is necessary, 110V power.  If you're looking to sell something comparable, please contact me! Located in Olympia, WA. stephen@cobbstreats.com.

Thank you,

Stephen

I'm not sure if you add additional cocoa butter to your bean to bar chocolate - but one of the things that many bean to bar producers have found is that their chocolate is too viscous for an automatic temperer. Another issue with the smaller automatic temperers (such as the Revolation) is that they require tempered seed chocolate placed behind the baffle to temper your chocolate - and most bean to bar manufacturers don't have tempered chocolate to use for this.

So to start - clean one of the stainless containers - fill it with cocoa butter and place in the EZtemper overnight. Give it a stir in the morning and make sure it has reached a creamy consistancy.  

Weigh and melt some of your bean to bar chocolate - let cool to 33.5 degrees C and add 1% of the weight of the chocolate of cocoa butter silk. Give it a stir. It will be tempered and ready to use. If you are molding it into bars I'd suggest that as soon as you see evidence of crystallization around the edges that you put the bar molds into the fridge for 10 to 15 minutes to carry off the latent heat of crystallization.

Hello kerry,

I have just receive my eztemper, i was looking for some infos before using it. Actually i was using "mycryo" cocoa butter to do my tempering before and i supposed that the eztemper will avoid me buying that (i am living in french guiana and have to order all my stuff to make chocolate abroad). I have a little experience about tempering wich i do with "bain marie". Now i am aiming to make more chocolate (i have a little scale of artisanale chocolate from tree to bar). I was thinking about buying an automatic temperer but don't really know what kind of the two methods (eztemper or automatic temperer) will be suitable for me.Any advice? Hope i made myself understood as my english is limited.

Hi,

I am currently choosing the machines for a new bean to bar factory, and my first choice for refining and conching wolud be melangeurs (Cocoatwon 65s). But the import taxes here in Brazil are crazy expensive, and I need to find some options.

I am thinking about a three roll refiner, which I can find relatively cheap here, but my question is about how to conche the refined mixture afterwards.

I am considering a planetary mixer with heating, another unexpensive choice, but I have no idea of the efficiency on the volatiles reduction and so.

Anyone with experience?

Thanks,

Rogerio.

Hi all,

I am establishing a new tree to bar chocolate factory (I am a cocoa producer in Bahia), and surely am excited about the process details and machine choices.

My cocoa is basically Trinitario and Forastero breeds, with some Catumbo (white beans forastero).

From now on, I hope to solve some doubts I have, but I will also be glad if I can be of any help!

Regards,

Rogerio.

I am also interested on some info. Is that only one piece or do you have more available?

Thanks,

Rogerio.

With soft water on rinse cycle you should have very little problems with water spots (depending on the actual mineral content of the water) so there may be no need for rinse aid.

Talk to Ecolab about the detergent suitable for use in your situation, they are usually very good at finding the proper solution. 

I have an industrial water softner in place - I have used in the past Ecolab rinse aid; but not with the molds (as I was worried to use any chemicals that can damage the molds)

To be honest we don't have one either.

We are washing moulds manualy at this moment. Mould washer is in the plans for new plant.

I have used Newsmith machines before and they do a very good job. I have no idea about US based suppliers.

If you are using an industrial dishwasher I would suggest looking at your options for rinse cycle, if you can use softened water or some sort of rinse aid you may save yourself a lot of work polishing out water spots. There are detergents suitable for mould washing as well.

Try TCF Sales. They have a melter for around $800.

Go to a local commercial kitchen supply store and tell them you are in the market for a used heating cabinet/proof box. They can probably dig one up for you for $600-$800, and it will probably take care of your needs.

Yes, I agree Savage does have great products and definately last years. Just looking for other options as i am only operating for corporate gifts in November and December. 

Thanks!

This 38 Inch Belt Coater is in very good (practically new) condition. This is a three phase unit with an fm50 phase converter so you can run this unit with full variable speed control from any single phase outlet. This all in one unit has lights, fans and a 12 jet water jacketed drip system set up with a 2 inch sanitary tri clover fitting. The entire unit is mounted on a base frame with casters so that it can be moved and cleaned easily. This belt coater also comes with a ribbed polishing belt. The polishing belt (not pictured) can be changed in about a half hour. This Belt Coater can handle batch sizes as large as 120 pounds for most centers and up to 150 pounds for a heavy center such as a dried fruit.  Pictures can be seen at  http://decorchocolates.com/beltcoater.aspx $10,000  Jeremy

If you make chocolate the entire tempering process definitely seems a lot less reliable. And each varietal you make is likely to have slightly different characteristics in regard to what they need to temper up nicely. Some varietals definitely fought me more than others.

In general, you don't need to use the holey baffle, although in theory it shouldn't hurt anything. I would make several suggestions. First of all, I would add the seed a little sooner than you are. Yes, anything over 94F in theory doesn't matter, but you want the melted seed working into your batch as much as possible. As soon as your chocolate temperature lowers in the 90's I would go ahead and throw in the seed. There's no downside to this. Second, once your temp gets down to the low 90's and you remove your seed you should then continue to cool your chocolate. I would recommend taking it down to the low 80's; you want at least 5F swing from the point at which you remove the seed, but 10F is even better. Then raise it up again to 89F - 91F, depending on the origin. And yes, at this point stir it well and leave it to agitate for 10 minutes or so. Finally, and especially if your molds are on the thicker side, place the chocolate in the cooler for about 10 minutes right after molding them up. Then put them on the shelf and maybe even put a light fan on them. And yes, this process will take a while. Depending on the amount of chocolate you're tempering, it can easily take 1-3 hours per batch.

As for over-crystalization, I rarely encountered that problem. But when I did it was almost always due to over-agitation and temps that were too low. So if this is a thing you are seeing consistently, stir a little less and raise the temps by a degree at a time and see how that works out.

One last thing - if you've got the budget consider looking at the "EZTemper" unit. I got one as soon as they came out, and all I can say is WOW. It is making my life a lot easier. 

The various Savage machines are high quality units that will last for many years. I've spoken to numerous chocolate and caramel makers who swear by them. But yes, they are expensive. If you're looking for an inexpensive alternative you might consider this: buy a heating cabinet or heater/proofer like bakers use. (If you get a heater/proofer make sure it can run just as a heating cabinet, because obviously you do not want to add water.)

Turn the temp up in the cabinet to a suitable temp to melt your chocolate, load in pans of different sizes with your chocolate, and come back in the morning to a cabinet full of melted chocolate. Takes longer than a good quality melter, and you're not going to be able to add despositors, etc. But on the plus side you can get brand new heating cabinets for about $1500-$2000, and used ones for half that much.

I'm wondering what others use for bulk chocolate melters as I'm finding the Savage and other melters insanely overpriced....I've seen some use soup warmers etc. Any new ideas out there? Looking for at least 25 - 50lb capacity.  Can't believe the prices of the melters out there. There has to be  some suitable substitutes...

I need of a Savage portable agitator. 20 x 11 kettle size.  

ggmcandy@gmail.com

Thanks Peter, my bar operation is too small for this machine, any smaller version of this one (preferably with a US based supplier)?

Mould washers are machines that wash, rinse and dry moulds.

One of the suppliers:

http://www.newsmiths.com/product-category/chocolate-mold-washers/

Here is the Video link again...

Stacked melter

Price brought down to 35$ unit. Must take lot. (50 in stock)
Shipping is not included.

Let me know.

vrubini@chocostyle.ca

I just came across 150 bran new aluminum displays for peg bags.

Solid construction, swivel base, made for durable use.They are painted white and can hold publicity on the sides.Selling lot for 7500$ or individually for 75$/eachOriginal price 165$ each. Lot price for is negotiable.Email me at vrubini@chocostyle.ca or call 514.858.7402 for more info.Cheers!

 image.jpg - 45KB

Thanks Sebastian, what is exactly a mold washer? how is it different from a typical industrial dishwasher and who sells it?

I currently wash my molds using a small hobart industrial dishwasher (with no detergent - only hot water at 155 degrees and end with 10 seconds 180 degree rinse for santization) then use compressed air to blow any excess water and leave the molds overnight (face flipped) on wire shelves to dry. In the morning, I store the dried molds in heating cabinets (each fit 150 molds) at 115 degrees for couple of hours, then wipe them with microfieber towel to ensure that the there no cacao butter left on the mold. I go through this process on a monthly basis and it is an extermely exhausting; I am trying to make it more efficient, any suggestion?

Hi there guys,

Im wondering if anybody has any experience with vanilla interacting adversly with the acids in a batch of chocolate bringing out a strong sour flavor? When adding the same vanilla to a batch made with a less acidic bean it did just fine. Mind you were talking half a teaspoon of seed scrapings to 30lbs of chocolate, not very much, but a very distinct diffrence before and after addition of the vanilla. To the point of, in my opinion, ruining the chocolate.  

a mold washer.  or lots and lots and lots of hair dryers?