Forum Activity for @louis mirabella

I have sold the enrober and panner.The other pieces are still available.I'll post pics when I return from Portland on monday,

                                                                    Lou 

                                                                             Chocofin Chocolatier

So I experimented a bit today - made some liquor from nibs in an Indian spice grinder, added water, then cooked down until it 'cracked' and the cocoa butter separated out.

I can't seem to get the pictures in order - but I ended up with around 20 grams of cocoa butter. You can see in the 3rd picture the butter starting to separate, then in the second one a little puddle of butter at around 11 o'clock. 

It could well be that as every iphone release marches boldly into a brave new technological world, i am slowly taking a step backwards until someday you'll hear me asking how to get the 12:00 to stop flashing on my iphone - but is it possible to configure the site to be readable via the tapatalk app?  I'm using it for all my other board activity, but not seeing TCL on it...

Sebastian: I was going to say the same things. I would start with getting the humidity under control to see if that helps (might need to get it down as low as 55 RH, at least that's my experience in some places). If not, then cooling things down is the next step.

Jennifer -

You can get residential chest freezers really quite inexpensively. They do require a little more thinking about how you pack stuff into them, but it's hard to beat the cost per cu ft. The Johnson controllers work with these quite well.

Hello all! I know this is a long shot, but I'm working in Quito, Ecuador right now, and my boss is looking for a used grinder/conche machine, as well as a larger-scale winnowing machine, to use in making very small batches of chocolate for his cafe. Right now he has the Premiere Wonder Grinder in use at his farm, but would like another similar machine for the cafe in Quito... if you're looking to sell one that's already in Ecuador, please message me! Or, feel free to send me a direct email at katrin2max@gmail.com, and I can put you in contact with my boss. He's willing to go several hours outside of Quito to pick up machines.

Thanks Robert!  I appreciate the feedback.

Jennifer, I'm using a Johnson temperature controller in a 3 door Continental refrigerator.  I run a temperature of 45F and the humidity is 35 with no problems

Mark - it may be worthwhile to suggest a course on cocoa microbiological food safety for the artisinal bean to bar maker.  If that emerging industry can't self regulate, the FDA will do it for them, which nobody wants.

May not be what you want to hear, but it's likely that until you condition your refining room, the problem will not go away.  It's also possible that you're not tempering sufficiently.  Could be a combination of the two.  Best to get your RH down in the sub 70% range.

I currently use an undercounter refrigerator with a Johnson temperature controller as a storage unit for my chocolate. I need more storage space and I'm wondering if anyone is doing the same, but with a full size commercial refrigerator? If so, can you tell me how well it is working for you?  How are you dealing with humidity issues?  Are there any special issues to consider?

Thank you!

Dear All,

I have been making some good chocolate on a tropical island but running into some problems with the appearance and texture  of the bars.

The bars come out dull in appearance and change texture after kept at "room" temperature (at 25-27C). they become gritty in the mouth and the fat doesnt melt so well.

I believe that the high moisture content is to blame as the liquor takes up water from he air during refining and conching. This in turn promotes sugar to absorb it and I think causes a mild siezing effect but not so much that the chocolate is not workable.

Here is a sample recipe:
45% nibs
25% butter
30% sugar

The refining room is not climate controlled and the humidity can be between 60-80%, sometimes even 90%, with temperature between 25C - 35C. I use conch refiners

The tempering room is climate controlled and using a continuous temperer with two temperature zones. The conditions in the tempering room: temp set 24 hours at 20C and humidity moves between 55-75%. The chocolate tempers ok but it always solidifies dull. I set the bars with the air blowing on them at 18-20C placed on a wire rack.

I would appreciate some suggestions regarding the problem I am having.

Happy chocolate making

Is this still available?  Where are u located?

wilma@chocolatefx.ca

Check this out -The making of cocoa butter

Not sure of the solvent though as I have no volume.

Therein lies the reason why I've only given some thought vs. executed the idea.  With my limited space, I don't have space for a real press and I'm not sure if one of the little olive oil presses would work.

Hi Mark,

In terms of panning, I am most interested in chocolate panning versus something like jelly beans. I would be very interested to learn about coloring and decoration techniques.

For candy bars, caramel and other crunchy elements would be really nice. When you say biscuit, are you referring to a shortbread or something like a kit kat? Both of those sound great to me.

Toffee is something that a lot of artisan chocolatiers sell. There is not a whole lot of information on the science of getting that perfect texture. That could be a great subject too.

Keep us posted!

Daniel

I'll look forward to hearing from you Ben!  Out of curiosity what means would you use to press cocoa butter?

It is possible to temper without seed in the Revolation machines. I do it with test batches regularly. I essentially just go through the same process I do in my Savage Bros: melt > cool to 82 > warm to working temp. As Michael says, it is not a necessarily fast process, but it can work.

Adding an EZTemper to the process would definitely make it faster and easier, of course. So much so, that I've given some thought to pressing some of the cocoa butter from a batch to use in the EZTemper and still maintain my 2-ingredient recipe.

Thank you for your areas of interest. 

Locations can be anywhere in the country.  Most have been on the east coast but typically wherever a host company offers, as long as they have the facilities and equipment to give everyone the hands on experience they are looking for.  There has been a lot of interest in offering courses in the west.  Their largest obstical has been in finding more than one or two host companies that can and are willing to do this, however these classes, being designed for the artisan rather than industry, we will be looking at culinary schools and the like, expanding the possibilities.  And depending on interest, they would try to be closer to where people live, ideally offered in more than one location.

Again, what I'm looking for here is what you would look for, what they would need to offer, how best to do it, time of course, and consider the concerns and desires of the artisan.  So all your ideas, suggestions, concerns will be a great help as we don't want to start by assuming what you would want.  Letting you tell us.

Thank you again. 

Where is that 'like' button?

I think a lot of people purchase the Revolation machines not realizing that they depend on well tempered chocolate as part of the process - and as Michael points out - that's the catch-22 of bean to bar - if you could temper your chocolate you wouldn't need the machine!

Michael,

Thanks for those thoughts.  I had not realized you were speaking of bean-to-bar when discussing tempering.  I'm sure that makes a huge difference (particularly considering that you have no ready-made seed for the seeding methd).

That is an impressive tribute to the EZTemper (we should make sure Kerry Beal reads that).  Although many have said that it does make a difference even when one is using something like the Delta machine for "store-bought" chocolate, it would seem to have less of an impact on the latter process.  I work in such small quantities that in making a ganache, for example, I just melt the tempered chocolate slowly enough that it never goes out of temper.  But I have read enough to know that once I have the machine, I will find uses for it I never considered (you can see my resolve not to spend the money is already weakening).

Jim - this may be the case with wholesale chocolate such as Valrhona, but it does not seem to be for bean-to-bar chocolate. At least that's been my experience. With bean-to-bar a number of issues come into play such as potential lack of seed (you don't have the tempered chocolate to use as seed until you make the chocolate and temper it, leading to a bit of a catch-22 situation), non-trivial differences in varietals, little or no added cocoa butter in the chocolate making process, etc. In general, I think those of us who make our own chocolate tend to struggle more with the tempering process.

As for myself, for example, I've almost never experienced over-crystallization. Maybe once or twice. My biggest problem was getting my single origins to temper well at all. With a lot of trial and error, I finally found that I had significantly more success with the lower temp and larger delta. Maybe other chocolate makers here will disagree, but it's the only thing that ever consistently worked for me.

The EZTemper, at least so far, has changed my process in a very positive way. Here's how:

PREVIOUS TEMPERING METHOD
1) Melt untempered single origin chocolate in Rev Delta (or pour straight from the melangeur)
2) Go through custom-programmed tempering cycle (which depending on the amt of chocolate would take 2 hours or more)
3) Pour "tempered" choc into large molds (This first tempered chocolate was almost never tempered very well)
4) Take most of that first "tempered" chocolate and run it through the entire process AGAIN, setting aside some to use as seed
5) Pour the second tempered choc into final molds (This second tempering usually did the trick, but not always)

EZTemper METHOD
1) Melt untempered single origin chocolate in Rev Delta (or pour straight from the melangeur)
2) After melting, lower temp to 92º
3) Add 1% precrystallized butter by weight and stir. Wait a few minutes. You're done.

My previous method took 4-5 hours per batch, and gave me an 80%-90% success rate.
The EZTemper method takes less than an hour, and so far gives me a 100% success rate.

Significantly easier, faster and more reliable tempering sessions with less wasted time and less wasted product.
And while I am currently only using it with 5 and 10 pound batches, I see no reason why it wouldn't scale up.
So far I am very happy and very impressed.

I had thought that taking the temp down to the 80s F. was not necessary when one is using already-tempered chocolate as seed.  I would be interested to know why you think that makes a difference.

I experience over-crysallization far too often (particularly when using Felchlin Maracaibo and Valrhona Opalys).  With the Chocovision tempering machines, the user cannot control the agitation since the bowl rotates constantly.  All I have found to do is raise the temp gradually and/or add untempered heated chocolate to dilute the Type V crystals.

I am also interested in the EZTemper.  Could you say more about how it has helped you?

Hi Mark,

Where is the location where you give your courses, online or at physical location? City/State?

I am interested in the subjects that Daniel mentioned Panning (Coffee/Nuts/Fruits and Jordan Almonds) and Candy making (Caramel, Ganache, Praline, Croquant, Nougat), in addition to that I am interested in the chemical composition of chocolate (specialty chocolate) and mainly in best practices of making chocolate without soy lecithin in addition to temperature/humidity controls of room/chocolate/mold (including mold cleaning techniques) to achieve the best shine and shelf life.

Thanks,

Tony

Panning for the artisan, would it be just chocolate, but include decoration techniques?  Such as river stone or marbling?

Artisan candy bars, what kind of centers are you thinking about?  Maybe ganache or a nut praline as a component?  Croquant?  Baked biscuit or wafer? 

Where hosted would most likely be at a culinary school, locations could be anywhere.

Cost would be determined mostly by how long, but costs a small shop could afford is part of what I'm looking for.  PMCA starts their cost at where they would break even, not looking to make money, but money they do make they put back into the industry for things like scholarships.

Thank you for your input.

Have you looked at used machines at sites like wolf machinery, raymond travel (they have a second hand 20kg conche/refiner at this moment, this is not the best machine to make good chocolate)?

There may be somebody selling second hand machines closer to you.

It's a little hard to translate what you mean by cheap enough as scale and costs differ around the world.

You may find out that milk chocolates present more of a challenge than dark ones.

I would be interested in why you don't want to use lecithin? It's a vital ingredient in chocolate making.

Rogerio - ah, cost is always an issue, no?  if i can get the messaging system to work i'll send you the name of a company that makes good small sized z blade mixers, they're not as conventional as you might think, but work well.

Hey Clay, great to know. We were going to vend at the chocolate fest but just decided to wait till next year. I'll be there for one of the days and would love to meet you. We live near downtown Oly and would be around on the 6th as well. I still like the sound of the Aura as we discussed...just making sure there's not a more reasonable (and/or used) option at this point. 

We're currently doing six 3-lb batches in a day, manually. Because we're spooning the chocolate into 90 molds per batch and then filling and swirling, I'd say it takes the two of us a good ten minutes once we get started. At that point, it's a guessing game. We try to keep the bowl on and off the heat, but it's not as precise as I'd like it to be, and we don't have the hands to keep it constantly on the move. 

One big plus of having a machine that could hold it in temper would be the relief from feeling rushed. The EZTemper would relieve a lot of manual wrist work and time, but yea, we'd still be in a time crunch once tempered. Worth a grand to us at this point, definitely. The next step up would be something like a Chocovision Rev Delta. We'd still need to be manually spooning out the chocolate, and we may run into trouble (?) since some of our chocolate has coffee grounds and chopped nuts in it, but it'd definitely improve the flow. If it works with stuff in the chocolate, I think it could definitely be worth the $2250. One downside is that it won't work if we decide to do some honey-sweetened chocolates, whereas I think the Aura could. The ~$7k Aura looks amazing and, assuming it wouldn't have trouble with things like coffee and nuts, I think it could be an excellent investment. 

Whatever we get, I'd like to know that we can get some good quick support if something goes wrong. I was planning on talking to FBM at the choc fest, but could definitely benefit from more of your expertise... 

Thank you for chiming in.

Stephen

Great Question Mark,

I have heard great things about you so I know I would love to take one of these classes.  Some subjects that I would love to see are the following:

1. Panning for the artisan

2. Artisan Candy Bars

3. Sugar Confections -- toffee, nougat, lollipops, marshmallow, etc...

Where would you host these classes? Do you know approximately how much they would cost to attend?

Thank you!!!

Daniel

Stephen: The EZTemper is not a tempering machine, but it's a good approach for small production. The EZTemper produces crystallized cocoa butter that seeds the chocolate and tempers it through mixing. You are still working in small batches and have to worry about keeping the temperature in the right range until you've used up the batch. I know some FBM customers who use both: they use the Aura for the chocolate they use a lot of, and use the EZTemper for the chocolates they use in smaller quantities for decorating or special short runs. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I see you are in Olympia. I spent a year at Evergreen and am currently slated to return to campus on 6 October to give a lecture/tasting to a class. I am not sure of my schedule that day and hope to catch up with at least one friend who's still in town. But who knows? Will you be in Seattle at the end of the month? We could meet there as well.

I'm giving up on opening a second shop so I'm selling off all the equipment I've collected.Includes a 6" enrober(listed seperately also) a Chocolare Panniing drum, Chocolate holding tank(water jacketed), Chocotec Chocolate tempering machine (includes a vibrating platform) A 4 foot curved glass Chocolate Display Case(the compressor turns on but does not cool down,will need work).

 This is a great oppurtunity to save alot of money.Located in Az.All this is going on ebay soon.

 For questions and pics contact me at chocofintruffles@aol.com

Hi , I have a 6" Perfect chocolate enrober.All it's components work and this unit is still manufactured by Perfect inc in canada so support is available.I am asking $6,000.

   Any questions or for pics contact me at chocofintruffles@aol.com

I am a retired confectioner (40+ years), now consulting, and a member of the PMCA Education Committee.  PMCA currently offers several courses during the year on a variety of topics, some of them I have led or taught.  However they are targeted more for the larger companies.  So they get very technical, including the chemistry behind the confections, covering the basic confectioney forms a large company would use, and also cover equipment for mass production.  We have had several artisan confectioners attend in the past but their major complaint is that the course is too technical, too much time spent on industrial sized equipment, and a lack of time spent on how to generate their own new ideas and artisinal techniques. 

We are now looking to offer courses geared more to the artisan confectioners by limiting the chemistry, eliminating production equipment discussion, and offer more into what an artisinal shop owner would be more interested in such as how to make more varieties of a particular confection, understanding what makes it work and how to alter your way.  Also to reduce the course length (to reduce cost) from 4-5 days to maybe 3.  As an example a caramel course would be more on unique ingredient use, forms, and techniques they could use to achieve color, function, and texture.  It would have about 3/4 or more of the time hands on making these products.  However they would have instructors who could explain the "why" of how things do or do not work as they have the fundamental chemistry knowledge as well as artisinal techniques.

I am looking for your ideas on what would make your ideal course:

- confectionery types / topics / depth / length

In other words, looking for your help to design courses that would be of the most value to the artisan.

This is your chance to help design what you want rather than try to find something close to it.

Thank you

Mark Heim

Hi Sebastian,

Thanks for your comments. I am thinking 1metric ton/month capacity. The flagship will be ~70% cocoa contents, and I intend not to use any lecithin or other emulsifiers. Milk and other inclusions are possible, but I assume my most difficult recipe will be the two ingredients one.

And I agree with you, the Z-blade seems a more "traditional" approach for a conche. The problem for me is to find one small (and cheap) enough.

Hello,

Although I make sure to winnow thoroughly I am wondering if the few remain husk/skin left on the nibs result in an acid aroma, or other type. Thanks for your experience.

Hi everyone,

We make truffle-like products that are stored in the fridge (mainly because the filling isn't firm at room temp, and the coldness adds to the experience). In order to keep the chocolate from being too snappy in the fridge, I add about 6% coconut oil. I do want the chocolate to look shiny and not bloom, but I don't care about holding a perfect tempered snap. 

While the coconut oil affects the crystaline structure and prevents it from having a perfect sheen, tempering definitely does help. The chocolate doesn't bloom (at least not as quickly) and doesn't melt to the touch like it would otherwise. 

The one thing I haven't figured out is why sometimes the chocolate will appear to shrink (see link) while most times it doesn't. I love this look. 

http://www.cobbstreats.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/pb-cup-liners-225x300.jpg

I'm curious to hear about other stories of refrigerated chocolate products, as I know most of you don't do this sort of thing. 

Thanks in advance!

Thanks Sebastian, I'll check it out...

Thank your for your nformations kerry. I am using 10 % of cacao butter in my chocolate.

Welcome Rogerio - you're right in the middle of Brazillian cocoa country!  Lots of info here, i'm sure you'll find it helpful - good luck!

Stephen - i f you're looking at smaller volumes (ie not hundreds of lbs per day) - you might want to consider the EZ Temper.  it's a pretty different approach from standard tempering machines, but works quite well.

it'll work ok, but there's simply not enough energy input for that to be of much use from a flavor modification or serious emsulsification standpoint.  I've had many of these built, and they work alright, but certainly are not best in class.

Another alterantive you may wish to consider might be a z-blade mixer that's been jacketed for temperature control.

What quantities are you looking to make, and what characteristics are imprtant to you? (ie lower fat chocolates, dark chocolates, milk chocolates with flavor development, etc?)

Hi,

Looking for a source for quality roasted organic cocoa liquor, fair trade / ethically sourced, drops or plates/blocks. Please let me know if you have any, or have a trusted source.

Thank you!

Stephen