Forum Activity for @Thomas Forbes

Keeping chocolate in temper

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

The machine using a air fan to cool and heat up the chocolate. It holds around 24-25 oz of chocolate and probably takes around 45 minutes to go through the entire process until I am ready to pour into the molds. My instructions were to add the seed when you achive maximum tempurature and there is an indicator which beeps when it reaches 90 degrees so you can remove the seed. I end up using 3 1.2 oz bars for seed to produce 21 bars, meaning I really make 18 1.2 oz bars with a pound and half.

I was trying to table temper without a seed on the countertop for many months with inconsistent results. My problem was when it got down into the 80's, the tempurature would fall too fast and get to the low 80's before I could mush it into the other, warmer chocolate. I also had because after I mushed the cooler and warmer chocolate, the tempurature would still be above 90. I have someone in the industry who wants to teach me how to table temper. I could see doubling or tripling the size of my batches, getting more molds and increasing my capacity. Right now, I can usually temper and mold about 4.5 lbs in a 4-5 hour stretch.

Keeping chocolate in temper

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

At the start of this thread, Nicole said she was " ... tempted to try using a cold water bath instead."

Thomas, how do you drop temperature from 118F to 86F? Does your Chocovision use cold or chilled water? How long does it take?

Heating chocolate (in a double boiler or a hot-water jacketed machine as in my case) is easy. But cooling from 115F (or higher) to 88F (or lower) is DIFFICULT. It also does not appear to be well discussed in this forum.

Using a marble or granite slab (presumably in an air-conditioned or cold room) makes sense. But, can we just really use fans & blowers for chocolate in containers? Can 86F or a lower temperature really be achieved?

In the Philippines, where I am and as it is December,Ambient Temperature is 84-88F and Cocoa Liquor Temperature(at room temperature liquid & near solid state) is 88F.

Presently, my tempering process cools down from 115F to 88F (with 88F Seed Chocolate added at 95F to aid in the cooling process) by gradually creating a 78F iced-water jacket under the chocolate container bowl of the tempering machine. However, even with constant stirring & scraping for 30 minutes we can only cool down to 88F. Beyond 30 minutes, some more cooling is possible but the chocolate starts to be un-stirrable/un-workable.

Is the use of chilled water (to cool down chocolate during tempering) correct? How long does this process take? Is there an appropriate time period?

Keeping chocolate in temper

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I am a small chocovision tempering machine and set the temperatures at 118 drop it to 86 and take it back up to almost 90. After I get it in the mold, I have been putting them in 50-60 temperatures and can pop them out of the mold in about an hour. No bloom and great snap. When I let the mold harden at 70 degrees plus and it took many hours, bloom started coming out after about hours in the mold if the chocolate was not hard yet.

I have been using similar proportions of liquor, butter and sugar. I try to get my percentages closer to 65%-70% liquor, 5-9% butter and 25-30% sugar. I have been making slight adjustments to see how different the results might be. As far as the timing in the small cocao town melanger, I usually run the liquor by itself for 12 hours, and then start adding the sugar over about an hour period while I also add the additional butter. I stop the machine somewhere between 20 and 24 hours. Used some nice Equadorian liquor last time and was able to use less sugar and only conched for 16 hours because I liked it so much at that point. I added the sugar at 8 and needed those 6 hours to grind the sugar, the cacao was really good.

Keeping chocolate in temper

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I am new to this forum. I have done quite a bit of reading and this website has been very helpful.

Using fermented cacao beans from trees that I grew 4+ years ago, a small horizontal rotary roaster, a drill press modified to run a vertical ball mill at 60 rpm; and, a water-jacketed wheel tempering machine (which I designed as these equipment would be difficult to acquire/purchase overseas from the Philippines where I am situated), I am able to produce nice-looking, fine-textured and good-tasting 70% Cacao chocolates.

My chocolates contain ~60% beans, ~10% cocoa butter, ~30% raw washed sugar, ~1% vanilla powder and ~1% lecithin. The nibs are milled for about 36 hrs (50+50% of the sugar is added at 12 & 16 hrs, 50+50% cocoa butter at 20 & 24 hrs, 1% vanilla powder at 24 hrs; and 1% lecithin at 35 hrs.) After solidifying the liqour in bread loaf pans atroom temperature for 3 days ( Does it qualify as couverture at this stage? ), it is chopped into small pieces and melted in the tempering machine. Over a 1hr and 15 minute period, the chocolate is heated to 122degF, cooled-down to 88 degF (by initially replacing heated jacket water with 86degF tap water and with 84degF ICED tap water) and finally warmed again to raise chocolate temperature to ~90degF.

I use the 122degF, 88degF and 90degF temperatures as they were specified in the Tempering (Dark) Chocolate video at Tempering Chocolate . Admittedly, I am unable to cool-down to 80degF as specified in the video (as that would require very cold or chilled water). Are these the correct temperatures for tempering 70% Cacao Bean chocolates? The use of iced or chilled water to cool-down before settling to the tempering temperature is not mentioned in this discussion thread. Is the use of iced or chilled water correct?

Despite the above attempts to temper, my chocolates do NOT have the snap of properly-tempered chocolates. They are dark colored but NOT as-dark-as commercially-sold dark chocolates. They also produce very fine white powder-like bloom on their surfaces after a few days. What am I doing wrong?

I look forward to everyone's feedback, comments and suggestions. Thank you in advance.

Keeping chocolate in temper

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

You're welcome.

I'm curious to know how things are working out for you now!

Cheers

Brad

Keeping chocolate in temper

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Perfect! Thank you both, Mark and Brad for the expert advice.

Keeping chocolate in temper

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Perfect! Thank you both, Brad and Mark for the expert advice.

Keeping chocolate in temper

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Nicole, the water is almost simmering (steaming lots), and we are using 8 litre stainless steel bowls and large stock pots. The water never touches the bowl, and the bowl sits very deep into the stock pot.

Heat guns put out very high, and very direct heat. You can actually burn the chocolate with a heat gun. You want gentle and uniform heat on your chocolate, or you'll get streaks. The only place my staff use forced air heat (from hand held hair dryers actually), is to clean the chocolate off the machines throughout the day, but never on the chocolate itself.

Below, Mark suggests what we call "reverse tempering" (my personal term), where you have over crystalized chocolate, and are introducing into the mix, chocolate that is uncrystalized and is in the process ofcoolingdown from being completely melted (40 degrees +). I also teach this technique to our staff, although I usually suggest that they let the chocolate cool a bit more - usually to 95 degrees - before adding it to the existing, over-crystalized chocolate. This way, there's less risk of pulling the over tempered chocolate out of temper. I also suggest that they cool the over tempered chocolate a bit more - usually to 87 degrees just before they add the new product.

The temperatures Mark is suggesting could also be directly related to the amount of melted chocolate he's using VS. the amount of over-crystalized chocolate he has, and what temperature it's at too. In our case, it's usually a ratio of 30% over-crystalizedto 70% melted chocolate.

The next step? Stir, stir, stir, then stir, stir, stir, then wait 5-10 minutes for the crystals to seed, or you'll get streaks.

Cheers.

Brad

Keeping chocolate in temper

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

A technique that works well for me is as you use up the chocolate, replace it with untempered paste. I add chocolate at 40C (104F). I will add it until the chocolate is back up to tempering temperature. But if you're not using up enough chocolate when dipping, you may not be able to add enough to bring the temp up enough. Since thickening is often overtempering, where your percentage of crystal is too high, adding untempered chocolate helps bring the percentage back to where it should be. After getting used to how it works it's a big help.

Keeping chocolate in temper

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thanks so much, Brad. I was hoping you would respond since I have found your advice to others on this discussion forum so incredibly valuable. I will definitely stir more!

I am curious, when your staff reheats the chocolate in a DB is the water simmering or is it on low heat? I turn my water down to low after the chocolate has melted to ensure a slow reheating. And I'm assuming that since you didn't mention using a heat gun that you aren't advocating it ?

Nicole

Keeping chocolate in temper

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Nicole;

Chocolate is arguably THE most difficult confection to work with because the working temperature range is non-negotiable, very small, and when it's in that range it's constantly crystalizing in different ways. At it's working temperature, the chocolate must be agitated at all times or you're going to get streaks and bloom. You can either have someone stirring all the time, or invest in an inexpensive tempering machine that holds a few lbs of chocolate - something like a Rev 2, or ACMC machine.

Unfortunately there is no negotiating with chocolate, and absolutely no room for error in reheating. A simple error of 1 or 2 degrees F to high, and that's it, your chocolate's out of temper. When I'm training my staff, they actually spend an entire week practicing tempering by hand before they can use the equipment that does it for them. One of the things they learn, is that if they are reheatingsmall amounts ofchocolate (3-4lbs), they need to take it off the heat between 4-7 degrees BELOW the target temperature, because the bowl will still hold heat and drag the temperature up. If you wait until the chocolate is at the target temperature, the heat held in the bowl will drag it out of temperature.

The only thing I can suggest is stir stir stir. When you think you've stirred enough, you haven't, so stir stir stir some more.

The process can be very frustrating. I hope that helps.

Brad

Keeping chocolate in temper

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I use the seeding method for tempering (although I am tempted to try using a cold water bath instead) and am having difficulty keeping my chocolate in temper at 88 degrees long enough to dip more than a handful of chocolates at a time. How can I keep it in temper longer? I have tried gently reheating the chocolate (back to 88 degrees) on a double boiler and that works well the first time, but the chocolate falls out of temper if I try it more than once. Should I try a heat gun instead and if so, when should I start the heating process? Thanks for your expert advice on this.
updated by @Nicole Gnutzman: 04/11/25 09:27:36

Salon du Chocolat Paris 2011

Posted in: News & New Products Press

Who's in, who's out, if you've been before what are your tips?
updated by @Samuel Maruta: 03/11/26 06:20:34

kitchen aide panning machine

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

You can - it's just a matter of heating until the couverature is 'plastic' then chilling to shine.

kitchen aide panning machine

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

we also have a hair dryer in the shop, maybe that will work for heating

to polish... can we achieve shine with my regular couverture?

kitchen aide panning machine

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Yup - all about the temperature control. I've got the DeBuyer panner that goes on the Kitchen Aid and also a slightly larger pilot pan. In the demo linked to above on eGullet I use dry ice to cool the pan, but I've bought a dedicated air conditioner that I'm waiting for my hubby to adapt so I can blow cold air into the pan. Using the warm exhaust from the air conditioner will probably work as a heat source for the polishing phase of the panning.

kitchen aide panning machine

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

here is a good conversation that I found on the topic. **

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?/topic/121548-panning/

apparantly it does take a lot of temp control, and it seems that each batch takes a considerable amount of time.

It is hard to imagine that much investment in equipment and labor paying off.

** Jeff, I just notice that you are involved in that conversation, and that you know MIchael Recchiuti. That's great!

AsI was starting out, I was told by a mutual friend of mine and MIchael's that I should look him up, so I went to his shop at the Fisherman's Terminal and of course I was very impressed. Love what he does.

I did not get to meet him though.

kitchen aide panning machine

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

thanks for the reply.

that looks like the same machine, but the best price I have seen so far.

from what I understand, you put in your coffee beans or nuts, and slowly pour in tempered chocolate as it turns?

kitchen aide panning machine

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Must agree with what Jeff has to say about panning. Really is something you need to have someone show you tips and tricks for and spend a lot of time getting right. Environment is incredibly important to the finished product so being in a humidity/temperature controlled room is very important.

kitchen aide panning machine

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Ive got this one ... http://www.dr.ca/confectionery-coating-pan-attachment.html Its abou $75 cheaper. Use it all the time and it works well. Its cost effective if you are going to regularly sell panned items. Panning is a blend of art and science. The more you can control your environment the better. Takes some practice and time to figure out what makes it work, what doesnt work. Its not something you can just put on your machine and go. But the more you do it, the more you develop a feel/intuition for what works and doesn't work.

kitchen aide panning machine

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

hi folks.

I am wondering if the kitchen aide panning attachment is worth the 575 they want for it ?

I understand that it is not made by kitchenaide, but by a French company, and I would like to make sure that it will work on my model, and make large enough batches that it is cost effective to spend the money on the equipemt and labor,

also I have never used a panning machine before, i'd ike to hear people;s experiences.

thanks.

updated by @Matt Carter: 04/11/25 09:27:36

Questions about using a wheel based tempering machine with enrober

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Richard, I'm also interested in your wheel machine. If you could tell me a little more about the brand, size and how much you're asking. Thank you. george@georgepaulchocolates.com

Questions about using a wheel based tempering machine with enrober

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There are a few articles about the sale to the new owner in French on the Perfect Equipment website. I had to order a part this past week and they were quite responsive. Good luck with everything.

Questions about using a wheel based tempering machine with enrober

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I bought my Perfect last August just before the sell. I was dealing with the son, but he sold to someone else.

Questions about using a wheel based tempering machine with enrober

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I think my machine holds around 20kg maximum. You need a tank that is at least half or 2/3rds full to have a good enrobing session. If the chocolate gets too low, the wheel does not pick up the chocolate very well and this will affect your chocolate curtain.

The Perfect company now has a new owner and they have made slight improvements to their machines. The bottom line is if you don't have the money for an excellent selmi or other automatic machine, get started with a wheel machine. It's a major step up from hand dipping.

Questions about using a wheel based tempering machine with enrober

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I have a wheel based temperer, a forty-four pounder. Whenyou change over, if you can storethe pan ina warming cabinet; then tempering doesn't take forever. Then we usually wash up the wheel and the little spout/waterfall, whatever it is called. It's not too bad. Of late we have a bit of a problem with the chocolate over-tempering during the enrobing run. Parts of the enrober itself are a bitch to clean. I dream about the Selmi.

Questions about using a wheel based tempering machine with enrober

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I have the Perfect Compact Coater. It's the smallest enrober the company offers and probably the least expensive enrober on the market. It is even more rudamentary than the Prefamac that Jeff Stern speaks of. I find that it is an excellent starter machine. It is a giant step up from hand dipping without spending $30-40k on an automatic machine. As my business grows, I will certainly look into getting a higher end machine such as a Selmi or LCM (my favorite!). With the lack of financing available for small business these days the Perfect enrober is an excellent compromise.

It is a rather simple machine that includes a blower, a detailer, and a polycarbonate shield (at least mine does). Just like Jeff Stern says, it is the talent of the operator that really influences the results. I am able to keep the temper going for 12-15 hours. Keep your heat gun handy, but so long as you keep the room around 70 degrees you should only need to use it maybe once an hour for about a minute or two. Learning the mechanics of how the belt, the blower, and the detailer work will give you the best results. The Perfect Enrober is a simple machine and you will definitely see all the mechanics in action which is actually kind of cool. Tempering in the machine is easy with the seeding method. Also, cleanup is very easy and you can easily enrobe in dark one day, clean the pan, and enrobe in milk chocolate the next day.

Using a wheel based enrobing machine can actually make you a better chocolatier. You learn to keep an eye on things and have an understanding of what is going on all the time.

So the bottom line is if you feel you need an enrober, but cannot yet afford a Selmi, Savy, or LCM (Lexus, Mercedes, BMW) definitely get a wheel based machine such as Perfect (Honda Civic). It will get you where you want to go.

Questions about using a wheel based tempering machine with enrober

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Hi Richard,

I sent a friend request to you to find out more about your machines.

Thanks,

Erin

Questions about using a wheel based tempering machine with enrober

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I have two wheel machines for sale, used if anyone interested but not enrobers

Questions about using a wheel based tempering machine with enrober

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I have one too, a Prefamac. Very sturdy machine, built like a tank, runs day and night. It is some work to change over. You have to drain the tank and then refill. I only enrobe in dark, but I can see a change-out really taking no more than half an hour. Easy enough to refill, but you'd have to wait for the melt if you don't have another holder/melting tank. If you have a lot of volume it's worth it. Get a blower and detailer as well-it will make a big difference in the quality and appearance of your end product. You can email me on jgstern at mac dot com if you would like more info. Also, takes a bit of practice to get the results you want-the machine does nothing for you, you have to do everything for the machine.

Questions about using a wheel based tempering machine with enrober

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Yes, I have one. To change over is a real pain! I bought an extra pan, but never used it. The enrober is designed to remove and clean after each use. I do this twice a year. I leave it in place, which makes adding chocolate a bit of a problem. I always keep dark chocolate in it and feed it with tempered chocolate from another melter. It is certainly capable of tempering, but I usually don't have the patience. For the price, it has been a good machine. It does a good job, and it is not too pricey. Get some training, because there is no operators manual. If I had the money, I would buy a Selmi.

Questions about using a wheel based tempering machine with enrober

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I have not had any experience in using these machines and wondered if someone could explain how the chocolate is changed over. For example, I use two different kinds of dark, and milk. How do they all stay melted? Is it a lot of work to clean up and make the change over?

Also, I have been look at a Perfect air 2 / enrober 2 machine as a possibility as it would fit my budget and has gotten reasonable reviews. Does anyone have any experience with this particular make?

updated by @Elaine Hsieh: 04/11/25 09:27:36

Convection Oven and/or Coffee Roaster modifications/techniques

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May I ask what company you purchased the Turkish roaster from?

Convection Oven and/or Coffee Roaster modifications/techniques

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Baking vs Roasting?

Please don't take offense to this Clay, but cooking ANYTHING is about heat and airflow, not terminology. In my oven at home I bake brownies, roast a turkey, bake cookies, roast a beef roast., and even roast marshmallows for my s'mores. I can also bake theturkey , marshmallows, androastas well asroast thecookies and brownies. Why? Because it's the same piece of equipment cooking everything.

It used to be that roasting and baking were different - roasting meant cooking your food over an open flame, with higher temperatureswhereas baking implied indirect "ambient" heat, usually at a lower temperature. However, even with the "roast/bake" settings on some ovens today, the bottom line is that the oven uses dry heat to cook its contents.

Due to the evolution in cooking technology (namely in ovens), the conceptual differences of roasting and baking are more or less lost. Case in point: Even coffee roasters today use indirect heat (usually natural gas), and add agitation (turning drum) to roast their contents. However, given that coffee roasters can also cook at lower temperatures common in old school baking, does it "bake" the beans when the temperatures is around 325? Nope. Still roasts them.

In the end, what's the difference between baking and roasting? None.

It's all about heat and airflow.

Cheers.

Brad

Convection Oven and/or Coffee Roaster modifications/techniques

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Think about it. Do you want to bake your beans? Or roast them?

Convection ovens have the advantage of being very inexpensive.

That said, in my experience, I have NEVER found a convection oven that heats the entire cavity left to right, top to bottom, back to front, evenly. In practice the result is unevenly baked (not roasted) beans. This is true even if you use perforated pans. You can a) rotate the pans during baking (which has other issues related to recovery time), or b) get an oven that rotates the baking rack during the cook cycle.

One technique you should learn from the coffee roasting community is about variable airflow - changing airflow and temperature enables you to get the most out of different beans. With a convection oven, you don't have precise control over airflow, so your baking profiles in a convection oven do not have the control you need to develop maximum flavor for a variety of bean types.

There have to be compelling reasons why coffee roasters are willing to spend $125,000 for half-bag roasters with digital controls. Now - you might not find that you can make a business with a $125k coffee roaster, but trying to "make do" with a $1500 convection oven is not the only alternative.

Convection Oven and/or Coffee Roaster modifications/techniques

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The trick to using a convection oven for a perfect roast is using perforated trays. This is important to allow air flow up through the bottom, but also over top. The other trick is to not overload the trays with beans.

I honestly don't think roasting in a convection oven would be effective if solid bottom trays were used, as much of the air circulation needed to evenly heat the beans wouldn't be present.

We don't cool the beans other than by using ambient room temperature. Once the trays are removed from the oven, they cool very quickly on baker's racks.

Convection Oven and/or Coffee Roaster modifications/techniques

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Hi There, we have have a coffee roaster and we find it quite good and efficient, soon i will post a review on differences between convection and coffe roasters.

One thing i can say is do not buy a roaster from AMBEX. they have robbed us $6000 and we never saw the roaster!

the previous owners did run away wit all the money from clients (deposit..) and now we have lost the chance to see the roaster.

funny enough we found then the same roaster made in Turkey for a 3rd of the price!!

Convection Oven and/or Coffee Roaster modifications/techniques

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I am looking to be able to roast 35 to 50kg and, depending a bit on machinery I find, will decide between convection or drum roaster route. The merits of these have been discussed before here but wanted to ask those with experience here for some basic insights.

Converting Coffee Roaster -- anything being done to modify with regard to interior of drum or speed in order to improve roasting/minimize breakage?

Convection Oven -- aside from just setting up a fan, anyone doing anything fancier to cool down the beans?

updated by @SteveB: 04/11/25 09:27:36

Humidity in chocolate storage

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Hi,

I had so many issues with tempering chocolate that I went out and boughta humidity monitor for my room. I'm based in the New York area and the humidity on a bright sunny day was at 52%. Today, it's really cloudy and humidity is a whopping 70%. I'm assuming that was one of the main reasons my chocolate kept getting the cocoa butter streaks on them after tempering with a chocovision x3210.

I will evenutally be working in a climate controlled commercial kitchen, but I will be storing the chocolates at home - with these humidity issues. I have a dehumidifer. Do I keep that running 24/7? Doesn't seem efficient. I have an old fridge i can store the chocolates in, but not sure how to control the humidity in there.

Any help/thoughts would be great.

Thanks much,

Geetha

updated by @Geetha Panchapakesan: 04/11/25 09:27:36

Fondant creamer

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To get your smallest crystal (smoothest texture) allow your syrup to cool evenly with no agitation. I spread on a marble slab inside framing bars to about a quarter inch thick with a thermometer in the layer. You can get some crystals forming early on the surface but a light water misting gets them back into solution. Once to target temperature you can beat it on the slab with scrapers, or in a hobart bowl, but watch how much is in the bowl, it gets very thick. Once it crystallizes I put it into a plastic bag and knead it to break the crystal bridging, seal out air, and let it mature. If you can keep the slab warm while beating it only takes 2-3 minutes, and if you add some other fondant as seed even less time.

Fondant creamer

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I was taught a technique where you pour it hot onto a large silpat. Fold the silpat over the hot mixture and pull it apart again. Keep doing this keeping the fondant in the middle (it starts the agitation process). When cool, add to the kitchen aid.

I'd be interested to hear how other people do it as well

Fondant creamer

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O Really? That's good to know... Do you just pour the hot fondant from the pan into the mettle mixing bowl and let cool, then start the paddle?