Forum Activity for @RawChocolateLife

Thanks for both your inputs, I am going to experiment using dry sweeteners although I did really want honey to work out, I just can't afford to have half my batches not turn out well. I will calibrate the temperature on the machine as well.  My last batch I lowered the room temperature and it turned out great so that may be a huge issue.  I always run a dehumidifier in the room on days I make chocolate but I live in a humid climate so even with the dehumidifier running all day it still is usually 50-55% RH.  I use dehumidifying packs in the fridge as well. They are rated to dehumidify a small room so are ample enough for the fridge.  It's the same as those little packs you get in some products except I got large canisters of them that are reusable by drying in an oven.

Keeping a notebook is a great idea, I may try that. Thanks for all your tips.  I'm going to experiment on a few of those and see how it goes.

Thanks for the info, very appreciated. I have found that my extra dark flavor which is 90% cacao and 10% honey tends to have the best luck while my other flavors are around 15% honey and I have lots of problems. I'm guessing the 90% may be under the threshold of moisture which is why it works better. I did the last batch without coconut oil but still used the honey and I had problems again but remelted and retempered and lowered the temperature of the room I was working in and had better luck. I'm going to try a batch without the honey and use cane sugar and see if that completely solves the problem. My packaging is labelled as using honey though and I still have a lot of packaging to go through so may have to make a sticker to go over the ingredient list.

As far as the issues with raw, I realize that technically the fermentation process almost always goes over the proper temperatures however I do find a distinct difference in raw vs roasted chocolate. For one raw chocolate is highly stimulating and gives you a euphoric feeling due to the theobromine, serotonin, anandamide, and PEA. There is debate over theobromine and whether its good or bad.  It is a stimulant so I'd categorize it the same as caffeine and say it's ok in moderation. I have tried tons of the raw chocolate bars on the market and most of them don't give me those same feelings so I'm guessing the ones that don't are using cacao that has gone over the temperatures that have destroyed some of these properties but I'm not sure. I used to be all about raw however after reading much I'm indifferent about it.  I'd say its definitely not the healthy food that it's claimed to be however I'd say it's definitely not any worse than regular chocolate. I never get the euphoric feeling from a regular chocolate bar either.

With using honey I was trying to create something that was a little better than whats available as I do believe honey is a healthier sweetener in moderation than most others out there. My bars are dark with the highest percentage of honey being 15% and I also add hemp to my bars as an added bonus.  It's rare to find chocolate sweetened with honey and now I realize why.  I found one company based in the US that does and I sent them an email asking about how they get away with it.  They haven't replied yet but hopefully they don't feel threatened as I'm in Canada and offer no competition to them and just want to know how they get a nice temper on their product.

Again, thanks for the info.

Thank you @clay.

Neither would most natural butter 8)

A couple of other ideas. 

Using honey in a Chocovision machine may reduce the amount of mixing getting done. If the CB crystals are not distributed evenly then streaks on the front or back will be common. Break a bar at a streak to see if there is a difference in temper in the cross-section. If there is it is probably insufficient mixing, at least in part.

Also - you're working in small batches and even minute changes to the recipe and ambient humidity will affect the rheology of the chocolate, which will affect temper. You need to assess the temper for every batch, not rely on the machine to do it for you, or rely on a specific set of temperatures. This is a common problem that people who make chocolate fail to take into account. The recipe might be "the same" but small differences in processing and mixing can make a difference in the working characteristics of a chocolate.

Calibrating thermometers is important, but it's also important to know what the temp and RH are in the immediate vicinity of the tempering machine. Keep a notebook and when things don't go as planned, you might find that temps and/or humidity are part of the issue.

I would melt out some of both, mix them in varying percentages, solidify them, then taste against your original.

Also, not questioning your taste buds, but I have never seen a lot of cocoa butter that varied in the lot.

Hey Clay, Peter & Sebastian,

thanks so much for the feedback! We did of course order samples beforehand and seeing as it's the second time we've ordered from this supplier, we do have a good relationship and generally feel that the produce is at a high level. I suppose that there's not really much they can do if this is indeed part of the natural variation. It seems that this only affects a smaller part of the entire delivery.

I suppose my question now is: Is it possible to use these pieces with the nicer looking ones, say in a ratio of 1:10, without impacting the quality, smell or taste of the final product? Or maybe a different ratio?

The messaging system is set up so that messages can only be sent to people who follow each other. This is make it impossible for spammers to join the site and then immediately start contacting members privately and spamming them. Members have the option to auto-approve followers or to manually approve them (the default). Go to your profile page and look at the "Approve Followers" checkbox.

Of course, a deodorized cocoa butter could not remotely be considered raw.

I agree, I would not spend too much time chasing the adulteration angle, it will probably lead nowhere (and cost you a bit). The bigger question is- did you sample the lot before you bought it? Natural cocoa butter is variable from lot to lot, we would NEVER buy without a preshipment sample.

Mold will never be an issue as long as your butter has not gotten wet.  If it's stored improperly and gets wet, all kinds of things can go wrong.  The butter in your photos is not wet.

Insects can attack cocoa butter, but it's incredibly rare.  I've only ever seen it once. 

Re: comproimsed cocoa butter - it's actually quite easy to 'blend in' other oils to cheapen it, and can be measured/identified spectroscopically.  It's done with olive oil all the time (much of the 'pure' olive oil on stores shelves isn't as 'pure' as claimed).  It's very technical, and not many people know how to do it.  I'd probably not spend much time chasing that down if i were you, to be honest.

Hi Sebastian,

thank you so much for the feedback! that would definitely be the best case scenario so I'm happy to hear that! Do you happen to know if there is any kind of mould or insect that could even potentially attack cacao butter? I have heard about it for cacao beans but I'm not sure wether cacao butter has a suited environemnt for that kind of thing, seeing as it's pure fat.

Also, do you know of any tests that can be done to determine wether the raw ingredients are not compromised? 

All the best,

Sanja

There's nothing wrong with it at all.   You're seeing variation in natural cocoa butter, and the porous-ness of it is simply differences in how it cooled.

if you desire more consistency in color and flavor, you need to specify you want deodorized cocoa butter from your supplier.

Hi everyone,

I hope that someone can help me with this. We have been making raw chocolates using raw cacao butter and in a new batch we noticed that the structure, taste and smell of the butter is different. I am attaching two photos- one is the smooth and good cacao butter, the other one is the flawed butter that is porous in structure, has a slightly acidic smell and also tastes different in the final product.

We contacted our importer who said he will ask the supplier. We have dry and safe storage so I don't believe it's from our end, especially since we've always used the same storage for these supplies.

Any ideas on what this might be and also practical tips on how to tackle the issue with the importer or supplier?

Many thanks for your help!

 IMG_0524.JPG.jpg - 1.9MB

Certainly.  Took me forever to figure out how to use this sites messaging system too  8-)

If it helps any, what I've been doing is using dry ice, about once per month.  I recieved a shipment of 10  50kg bags of cocoa in September and immediately propped the bags up in a tarp and duct taped the tarp up the sides so it was at least semi tight.  I have been calculating based on the size/volume of the bags, and only use about 2-3 oz of dry ice per bag. I simply place the dry ice on top of the bag, and then cover the entire thing up with a tarp.  I do this once a month in the warmer months and at least locally this costs approx $5US. I've yet to see an issue with moisture and have yet to see any insect activity in any of the beans i've sorted and roasted. 

I'll note, I've not done this procedure since Dec when we got our freezing temps and the storage area dropped to a pretty steady 40F/4C. Temps are now up in the 80's and the storage area is holding stead around 65F.  I'm out there to get beans to sort, roast, and process at least every other day if not daily.

Now, being totally honest, I'm not sure how effective this is, as the area i'm in I have a very hard time keeping the wolf spider and black widow population under control with monthly sprayings of pyrethren insecticide. So, either i've been effective with the dry ice or the spiders are fed  

[edit] something to note though, I live in a desert. So a 30% humidity is a high humidity day. Right now we're about 16%.[/edit]

Off the bat, I can say that honey may cause issues. Honey contains water, and water and chocolate dont mix. It can cause the chocolate to seize and pull the cocoa solids out of suspension. However, whatever your doing you're getting to the point where you can pour into molds.  The issue looks similar to what I've been fighting all chocolate season. No matter how I temper, the molds wont set right and they fall out of temper.

Two things that solved the issue for me is a) double check your thermometer and calibrate your tempering machine. It may not be working right as the thermistor may have drifted somewhat and if possible you may need to recalibrate that, or work around what the drift is. Part of my issue is my thermometer was off by over 4F, so when I was tempering I thought I was "within range" but in fact, I was 4F hotter than the upper limits of the range, so I was never actually in temper to begin with.  That may or may not be your issue here, but after 2 consecutive years having similar issues it's my first go-to troubleshooting step when tempering is an issue.

Second is the temp your molds are setting up/cooling in.  If that's too warm, the chocolate can fall out of temper.  From trial and error experience as well as reading a bit online, optimum room temp to deal with chocolate is between 68-70F/20-21C  It may be beneficial to get a cooling tunnel, cold box, or some sort of cooling area for the chocolate.  Optimum temps based on various forum posts seem to be 55F/12.8C, I'm still working on my cold box which is a temperature controlled fridge setup with a fan inside for airflow.  55 is my starting temp.

You have a chance of running into issues using a fridge, although it is quite possible and many do that without issue.  The problem is a refrigerator will end up by being too cold. And as a result if you leave the molds in too long, condensation is a very real risk. If condensation forms it can cause sugar bloom and ruin the batch. 

Something else to note that you didnt mention: Are you performing a temper test to ensure the tempering machine is giving you proper temper or are you relying on the machine to give you tempered chocolate?  The reason I ask is you can see my results. My room temp rose up to 74F/23.3C. Which, frankly, is normal for my area.  However, I'd get a clean temper test, but the molds would start to swirl and/or discolor.  The back swirls are obvious, the discoloration of the chocolate touching the molds wasnt any different in most respects than what you've shown.

 74f_room_temp_Temper.jpg - 42KB

Note: As far as will they attack beans or finished product, they may prefer beans but if you give them access to finished goods they WILL get to them. Guaranteed.

Emulsifier will not help in your situation.

1. Honey contains about 17% water, every 10% of honey in your recipe brings in 1.7% water content. Water content in chocolate generally should be below 0.3% total.

2. Coconut oil is not compatibile with cocoa butter and any additions will create difficulties in tempering or make it impossible.

I'm afraid that we may be talking a very different language and the same words may have very different meanings.

As Brad pointed out earlier in this thread may people would consider "raw chocolate" somewhere in the "misleading customer" category as usually the ingredients used are not raw and product produced is not what a "reasonable jury" would consider chocolate. This means that if this thread continues there may be some strong opinions on what you are trying to do. Proceed at your own risk.

Could you please describe what are you trying to achieve, how are you making your chocolate and what are you planning to do with it?

Hi. I am interested but could not send you a private message. Please feel free to email @ blueasters115@yahoo.com. Thanks

Yeah, I fear I'll have to eliminate those ingredients, Any idea if adding an emulsifier would help me keep honey as a sweetener? The coconut oil i'm willing to eliminate, it makes the chocolate softer which is nice but if it interferes with tempering it can be eliminated.

Our recipe was developed before we started tempering our chocolate and kept it refrigerated instead so it worked great then but with tempering it has given problems

I would strongly suggest looking at recipe.

Adding honey as a sweetener introduces a lot of water into the product and coconut oil will seriously impact tempering process.

32 in Montezuma chocoalte fountain-

http://www.walmart.com/ip/13225414?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227010573784&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=52283766015&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=78216789447&veh=sem

$1,895 OBO + buyer pays shipping

please call or tx for details: 239-980-9753 Justin

Selling a FCC-4 chocolate case. Its a beautible case but as I have no need for it anymore. Used but in great condition!

https://www.acitydiscount.com/Federal-48-Chocolate-Confectionery-Display-Case-Non-Refrigerated-FCC-4.0.130524.1.1.htm?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=cse_goo&ppcid=22&link=130524&gclid=CNOdsODX-MoCFY8bgQodeisNYA

$3,200 OBO+ Buyer pays shipping 

Please call or tx for information: 239-980-9753 Justin

 IMG_9744 (800x533).jpg - 196KB

I am doing raw chocolate and have been for a while using cacao paste, cacao butter, coconut oil, and honey as a sweetener. I've been having a lot of troubles with it. Some batches turn out amazing and some look like the pic here. I am trying this next batch without coconut oil to see if that changes things. I'd rather stick with using honey as a sweetener but am also looking into different types of emulsifiers to add that may help with making sure a liquid sweetener will work properly. I am also using a tempering machine so the temperatures are pretty consistent. This was posted a while ago so if you have any tips since you posted this please feel free to share with me, thanks

 12728873_10153897488766069_3792051449944251790_n.jpg - 130KB

I have a Pralinenfix PFM-200 depositor for sale. It has two nozzles (can accomodate 8), is in very good condition, and was only used a few times. This is all stainless steel and very heavy duty. It's perfect for dispensing chocolate into polycarbonate molds and has very accurate and adjustable dispensing amounts. This unit has a heated nozzle deck - uses 110v, single-phase, standard plug.

I'm asking $2,500.  Please email me for photos and/or questions.  (We are no longer in business and this is the last remaining piece of equipment.)

Thanks.

Nora (noraj003@yahoo.com)

Well, it looks like Erin pointed out that the plastics are made from Delrin.  I can tell from experience with that material that it doesnt expand/contract with heating very much at all.  

As for the flavor of the chocolate that got up that hot, it was good. This was a 2 ingredient batch that was being refined and ended up by getting a little more bitter/cocoa flavors and some of the more delicate notes were cut out.  I cant say it was bad or good compared to normal, this was the first real batch like that with that percentage (77%) that I've made. So I really have nothing to compare it to.

After noting the higher heat though, I did realize that I was kind of taking advantage of the higher sheer power of the Wonder grinders and adding things a little faster than I would in, say, my Santha.  So that may be the sole reason it got quite *that* hot.  Generally, if you're more careful and steady about adding the ingredients, the friction would be limited and thus the heat.

so, I *think* I have a mystery solved.  At least for the seizing wheels anyway.  The way that the axle became coated as shown in the pics, the materials seemed almost "baked" on in addition to being super sticky. I *think* the assembly wasnt fully dried prior to reassembling. This would add moisture, which would cause problems.  That, right now, is the only thing I can think of that would have caused the seizing the way it did. 

I'm still somewhat concerned with the amount of granite dust and the silvery dust that caked on the wheels though.

I can almost see the granite dust as being a part of the wear in process which would become lessened as the wheels and bowl get used and cleaned properly...but the silvery glimmery material in the pics above is worrisome.

When adding the sugar the temperature will go up due to the high friction. If you don't want the temperatures to go up that high, you can add the sugar more slowly and/or release some pressure from the top lock which will reduce the friction on the wheels and so the temperature will not increase.  Releasing pressure from the top lock can also help keep your stones spinning if they get stuck.

The bearring material is Delrin (not HDPE) and is stronger, longer wearing, can withstand higher temperatures and is  FDA certified and heavily used in the food processing industry.  

Generally, I wouldn't recommend putting your bowl and stones in the dishwasher.  Melting temp of Delrin is 347 degrees.  

It's great and consistent with our feedback that you are consistently getting refinement in a shorter period of time.  Congrats!

Happy chocolate making!

Erin

A certain percentage of each batch I make turns out like the picture below.  I am not sure what is going on and some batches are worse than others and some are way worse than whats shown in the pic. I use the revolation chocolate tempering machine doing approximately 20 pound batches. The settings are 89 degrees temper point and 6.5 temper delta. I recently changed to these settings as before I was using the default settings on the machine for dark chocolate. It didn't make a difference though. I use polycarbonate molds and I have found that the best way to minimize this problem is to set the chocolate for 30-40 min at room temperature and then give them about 15 min in the fridge.  I tried setting them only at room temperature and that seems to make it worse and I have tried setting straight in the fridge without the room temperature time and that also makes it worse.

I read that it is good to warm the molds before pouring chocolate into them so I tried that and it seemed to make it worse. I do find that the first pour into the molds always works the best but I only have enough molds to do half the batch at a time so must do subsequent batches. I have tried wiping the molds with cotton wipes between pours but that didn't help. It definitely works better after my molds have been cleaned with water and dried properly but that takes a long time to do it between every pour and I generally only do it at the end of the batches. Any suggestions on better ways to clean them between batches?

I use honey as a sweetener so would that have anything to do with it? The bars are around 60% cacao paste, 10% cacao butter and the honey makes up about 20% with the remainder being flavorings. I have a 90% bar that is 90% cacao and only 10% honey and it tends to happen less in that flavor but still happens sometimes. The picture is actually from a batch of 90%.

Please help!

 12644978_10153875330046069_6536516418257002267_n.jpg - 115KB

Hi Clay,  That's one heavy looking beast, should last a long time!   

Please tell me more about the Kleego 50 / 100,  I got some info and brochures recently from Tom at TCF.    Installed units Stateside currently?

Private note if you prefer.  

Thanks   Mark

I'll try the cb lubing the shaft and see if that helps.   The batches I do are typically 100oz batches. (6.25lbs/2.8kg) The 12 hour mark was there to signify that it wasnt any preheating actively heating the chocolate. This was within about 30-40 minutes after I added the sugar so it was at a point of high friction of the grinding/refining process.  This is not common, but noticed it on this particular batch.  Was worried the machine was overheating so I pulled the drum off and checked the machine. It was running at normal operating temps. The santha I've never seen a batch go above 125F/51C.

That's interesting. My machine runs with the chocolate temperature at 47C initially (1-2kg batch) and comes down to 43C when everything is more refined - which is about 12 hours in. This is with a room temperature of approximately 25C. Your batch size maybe looks a little larger, but that's still a large difference.

We've never had a machine running with the chocolate temperature over 50C (either Santha or Premier).

All I can think of is trying to lube the inside of the wheels/shaft with some ccb as mentioned above.

Something to note though, I've tested and shown that just the act of refining (no added heat in a room temp of 72F) gets the chocolate up to 146F.  Which is around 63C. The pic below was after about 12 hours of refining, I almost burned my hand checking the side for heat. So out of curiosity I took a temp.

 friction_heat.jpg - 77KB

 Well I'm out of ideas, if the bushings are fine and secure.   Anyone else solve this mechanical mystery?

And yes, the expoxies are the only things that have an issue with the heat. Based on what I've been able to find ; which I'll admit is not much so it is an educated guess, is that 180F is the material test rating. 170 is close, but not over what the material should be capable of handling. HDPE (the plastics) are dishwasher safe, meaning they'll withstand the over 200F of a dishwasher drying cycle. And stone...well, stone shouldnt have the issue.

Testing with a surface IR thermometer, the stone never reaches that temp in the time I have it in the oven. It just happens to be the lowest my oven will go.  After 2 hours, the stones read 150F/65C. And yes, I'm cautious as I'm aware of the potential issues there. The epoxy doesnt loosen or budge. It's just as hard and rigid after heating as it is when it's room temp. So I dont fear that to be an issue.

Yep, I've been told that 60C (maybe 65C by some people) is the upper end of what the epoxies can handle. Personally, when running a "heated" grind, I never take it over 57C.

I have previously run at 60C a couple of times and had the central shaft in the bowl start turning while still "glued" in place.

In terms of machine relaibility, I've used up to 5 Santhas and 4 Premiers in different settings. You may be surprised how UNstandardised these models are. It seems like each time they do a production run, the manufacturers change some aspect of the machine. In my own experience, the Premier Wonder grinders have been better than the Santhas, but both have had issues. I think its really idiosyncratic to themachine you get - some are better than others and it almost seems to be manufacturer independent.

Yes, the wheels will move slightly from side to side down the axle shaft when clean. They spin freely, and no vertical(up and down) movement when the wheels are in place. Both assemblies are like this. 

Hi Tim,

I don't understand why you are having problems, you do pretty much what we do with our Wonder grinders in terms of use and cleaning.  I've also found as you mention that the Premier grinders reduce the particle size faster than other brands too.

I guess I should have written 'test tube' brush not bottle brush....  they are quite a bit smaller.  We use an item with about 1" diameter soft bristles but do have to snip the end to get it to go through the bore hole of the wheels.   Again, do you wheels have 'end float' or side to side movement on the shaft with the nuts tightened? Assume the wheels spin freely when clean?

Here's the pics of the seized assembly at each step of cleaning.

 seized_001.jpg - 69KB

To reiterate: when I got the machines in October. I unpackaged them, ran them under hot water and mild soap and used a scrubbing brush. That was to get rid of any plastics and oils prior to first run.   The first run; again as a cleaning procedure; was to pour hot water and mild degreasing soap into the maching and let it run.  The axles were covered during this time. After running through like that, I took the assembly apart, scrubbed the wheels the best I could, wiped down the axles as best I could and used forced spray of water to clean out the inside of the wheels.  

This area here is too small for any brush I have (bottle brush will not fit).  I have since used my dip tube brush from my keg gear.  It's a tiny brush that requires some force to push through the wheel, bristles are bigger than the hole, so they are indeed scrubbing.

I was able to run a batch of 2 ingredient chocolate through at 72% dark. For prep for this I heat my oven to the lowest setting which is 170F/76.6C and set the assembly and drum separately on sheet pans lined with parchment paper. The assembly sits in the oven for about 1-2 hours, then gets placed on the base. I pour the liquid ingredients in first; i.e. cocoa butter if I'm adding any. If no cb, I begin by adding freshly roasted/winnowed nibs about a handful at a time (maybe .5oz) and let it get somewhat liquid first before moving forward.   It takes about 2 hours to add all nibs in. At that point I let it refine for a minimum of 12 hours before adding any other ingredients (milk, sugar, vanilla, etc). There was no visible or noticable issue with that batch. Other than the premier refined a lot faster than I'm used to (ready in 36 hours).

To clean after a batch of chocolate has been run through, I pull out the degreaser and hot water to remove any chocolate that I couldnt scrape out. I let this soak for a few minutes prior to attacking it with a scrubbing brush. I then use the spray hose to rinse out the bowl and remove any visible chocolate on the wheel assembly. I then take wheels off, and scrub the inside of the wheels and wipe down the axles.  I then wait for it to be mostly dry, then I set the disassembled wheel assembly onto a parchment lined sheet pan into the oven.  This assists in getting the pieces drying.

If I'm going to run another batch that day, I will leave the pieces in the oven for about 2-3 hours to both dry and warm the pieces.  When I assemble, I make sure to tighten the nuts as tight as they were prior to me disassembling. As of thus far, I've been treating the new premiere grinders the same as I have treated my santha grinder.  The santha grinder is still running, zero issues, and have never had a problem with it. In fact I've just replaced a belt on it, first time in almost 8 years that was done.  So I'm going to assume maintenance, cleaning, sanitation is going to be the same?

Hey,

Peter, could you elaborate on the possible solutions youre proposing? I am unfamiliar with those terms and how to proceed.

As for the second option, just move the grindeur further from the control panel?