Forum Activity for @Ice Blocks!

Ice Blocks!
@Ice Blocks!
04/01/13 22:42:25
81 posts

Cacao Powder Grinding


Posted in: Tasting Notes

>it's highly doubtful that you even have a clue if it's fair trade or organic!

We have copies of the organic certifications...

>the guy who misleads people

In what way? By saying we buy cold pressed cacao powder from reputable suppliers...

>Either Iceblocks is lying about HACCP,
>OR Iceblocks is lying about his cocoa butter being cold pressed.

Because the suppliers claim its raw, before combining with other pasteurized products, the powder must be pasteurized. That is actually a HACCP critical control step.
We don't use cocao butter. What a burk.

What's highly doubtful is your ability to comprehend English or intellectually understand. What is unquestionable is your condescending rudeness

Now can we get back on topic

Brad Churchill
@Brad Churchill
04/01/13 22:02:54
527 posts

Cacao Powder Grinding


Posted in: Tasting Notes

You're right about my reference to cocoa butter. However, everything else I say is accurate, unless you would like to prove otherwise.

The nice thing about anonline forum is that it enables exchange - certainly an exchange that allows you to dismiss my observations.

Go ahead and please do.

Cheers

Brad

Tom. I'm not upset. I'm just pointing out things that I see.

Having said that, I would LOVE to have IceBlocks explain the relevance of "raw" and "cold pressed" when it applies to either cocoa butter OR cocoa powder, when the process of pasteurization nullifies that by bringing the temperature of the product in excess of 165 degrees F for several minutes - far above what people find acceptable for "raw" food.

After all, we're ALL about sharing here. Right?

Thomas Snyder
@Thomas Snyder
04/01/13 20:55:40
26 posts

Cacao Powder Grinding


Posted in: Tasting Notes

I tried to diffuse the situation, but he seems determined to be upset about the issue. *shrugs*

Ice Blocks!
@Ice Blocks!
04/01/13 20:40:52
81 posts

Cacao Powder Grinding


Posted in: Tasting Notes

We don't use cocoa butter. Nor have I ever said we did! We use "cacao powder" which the two Australian suppliers we have bought it from claim is "raw" organic and fair trade.

You are off topic, condescending, rude and potentially libellous and I'm surprised this site allows trolls to continue posting un censored.
Chocotoymaker
@Chocotoymaker
04/01/13 20:21:36
55 posts

Cacao Powder Grinding


Posted in: Tasting Notes

I am def watching your show

Brad Churchill
@Brad Churchill
04/01/13 15:25:29
527 posts

Cacao Powder Grinding


Posted in: Tasting Notes

99% of the time I can't disagree with what you've written here Tom.

In this particular case, IceBlocks comes across as someone technically astute. After all, how many chocolatiers do you know of who talk about sending their cocoa powder to a lab for analysis?

HERE'S A BETTER ONE: Iceblocks says they have to conform to HACCP as required by the Australian Government. HACCP is an acronym which stands for Hazard Analysis Critical Control Point and is a very comprehensive program that companies use to identify critical points of potential microbial contamination in their manufactured food. Given that the Australian Government has determined that raw cocoa powder is contaminated and needs sterilization (or so Iceblocks says), it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put 2 and 2 together and conclude that raw cocoa butter comes from raw cocoa beans, and if raw cocoa solids are contaminated, the raw cocoa butter would DEFINITELY be considered contaminated too and thus a critical control point in the manufacturing process, which would definitely mandate further research into the supplier's claims, and also require a step to sterilize it, which would ALSO mean the fact that it's cold pressed would be irrelevant, because it would be heated at some point!

In the manufacturing world, it is common knowledge that fats such as cocoa butter act as fabulous preservatives and suspension mediums for pathogens such as eColi and Salmonella - allowing the bacterium to live much longer than if they were just on the surface of a food item.

For further educational purposes (after all, we're here to learn right?), here are the seven key points to an effective HACCP program: Note that STEP ONE mandates that Iceblocks should have done his homework LONG before he wrote about raw processed cocoa butter.

HACCP step 1 requires manufacturers to conduct a hazard analysis; they must identify food hazards and implement a written HACCP plan for food hazards that are reasonably likely to occur during processing. [46] Step 2 requires manufacturers to identify within the HACCP plan the critical control points (CCPs)the points in the manufacturing process where the identified food hazards can be minimizedand the measures that will be taken to control the hazards. [47] The third step requires manufacturers to identify and establish critical limits, the outer boundaries in which physical, biological, or chemical parameters must remain in order to control the food hazards. [48]

HACCP steps 4, 6 and 7establishing monitoring, record-keeping and verification proceduresensure the proper day-to-day functioning of the manufacturing process. Manufacturers must maintain records documenting the ongoing application of the HACCP; this requires written proof that the processor is monitoring the critical control points and critical limits, i.e., the actual recording of times, temperatures, and other measurements required by the HACCP plan. [49] Furthermore, the food processors must verify that the HACCP plan is being implemented properly. Trained individuals must review the companys HACCP records and consumer complaints, check the calibration of process monitoring instruments, and, when necessary, conduct periodic end-product or in-process testing. [50] Because scientific knowledge is always expanding, the food processor must also validate its HACCP plan annually; if the food processor had earlier concluded that no hazards were present and no HACCP plan was needed, it must reassess its earlier hazard analysis whenever there are any changes that could reasonably affect whether a food hazard now exists. [51]

The final HACCP step (step 5) requires manufacturers to establish corrective actions. Manufacturers must include within their HACCP plans corrective actions for situations in which a deviation from a critical limit occurse.g., when sterilization machinery does not maintain the proper temperature. [52] These plans should ensure that any injurious product is withheld from the stream of commerce and that the cause of the deviation is corrected. [53] Should a deviation occur for which there is no plan, the manufacturer must quarantine the potentially injurious product; determine whether the food product meets the safety criteria for distribution; and take appropriate action to ensure that any injurious product does not reach consumers and that the cause of the deviation is corrected. [54] Anytime the manufacturer takes corrective actions, the actions must be documented. [55] Importantly, when a deviation occurs for which there is no plan, the manufacturer must reassess the HACCP plan, and make any necessary modifications to the plan; this requirement ensures that when unexpected deviations occur, the manufacturer will reassess and rework the safety and quality controls it has built into the system. [56]


For further reading on the HACCP infrastructure, please feel free to visit the following web page: http://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/8965572/Axelrod06.html?s...


There is no way around this. Either Iceblocks is lying about HACCP, OR Iceblocks is lying about his cocoa butter being cold pressed. It is logically impossible to know about one, and not care/not know about the other. Iceblocks is not simply "misinformed."

I stand by what I said before. Shame on Iceblocks.

I guess there is one other possibility: Iceblocks doesn't have a clue about either HACCP, OR cold pressing of cocoa butter, in which case double shame on him.

Brad

Thomas Snyder
@Thomas Snyder
04/01/13 14:07:09
26 posts

Cacao Powder Grinding


Posted in: Tasting Notes

Brad, maybe it wasn't so much of a lie as it was just misinformation? It seems that maybe IceBlocks is of about the same knowledge level as I am (that is, having read up on most things readily available, but doesn't have the working knowledge of the industry that a veteran chocolatier would have?), and took a supplier's terms that he used at face value. I think you're really upset at his supplier for labeling something as "cold-pressed" that obviously (to someone who knows what the process of separating cocoa butter from the powder truly entails) could never have undergone such a process.

I do understand where you're coming from, since as a professional it irks to hear someone use terms like that so improperly. There needs to be a standard that everyone is held to, and deceptive labeling should be punished appropriately. BUT, that doesn't mean that an entrepreneur who is ignorant of certain parts of the process should be derided and chastised for a simple mistake.

How about educating him on the reasons as to why it's impossible for him to have "cold-pressed, raw cocoa butter" instead of berating him for not having this knowledge beforehand? I mean, that's the point of these forums, right? For people to come together and share knowledge of cocoa and chocolate?

Peace and Love!

~Tom

Brad Churchill
@Brad Churchill
04/01/13 10:09:25
527 posts

Cacao Powder Grinding


Posted in: Tasting Notes

I wasn't overbearing or condescending.

I simply caught a liar in a lie. After all Clay, it wasn't like the words just "slipped" off of IceBlocks' keyboard! He consciously typed them, and even made sure they were spelled right. In fact they were even used in correct context, which can only lead a person to believe that IceBlocks KNOWS what the words mean, and the impact they have.

SOMEBODY needs to step up and call to task those who purposely misrepresent themselves and/or their products. If nobody did this, what value would forums like this have?

"language used..."??? I didn't know "shame on you" was swearing.

If you want to chastize someone in your "house of business" chastize the guy who misleads people, and not the guy who points out obvious marketing BS designed to mislead others.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
03/31/13 14:51:03
1,689 posts

Cacao Powder Grinding


Posted in: Tasting Notes

Brad:

The language and attitude is totally uncalled for. We've had these discussions privately. You can make the points you want to make without being either overbearing or condescending.

Please.

Ice Blocks!
@Ice Blocks!
03/30/13 23:06:38
81 posts

Cacao Powder Grinding


Posted in: Tasting Notes

1) I have a copy of the organic certification certificates for the cacao powder...

2) Fair trade products come with a FLO ID...

3) I assume if a reputable supplier describes it as cold pressed that it is...

4) We legally have to pasteurize it, so it's not raw, so don't care if it was...

5) Whats the problem with people wanting a vegan product? It's their choice.

6) What is your problem with organics? We choose to stimulate demand for something we believe in. Ours and our customers choice.

7) If you cant meet a demand don't whine to me

Brad Churchill
@Brad Churchill
03/30/13 22:18:25
527 posts

Cacao Powder Grinding


Posted in: Tasting Notes

I just got home from a great weekend in the mountains to read this trash!

IceBlocks, you throw around buzzwords like you know what you're talking about (...ourfair trade, organic cold pressed... blah blah) , and then when pressed by someone who REALLY DOES know what he's talking about you confess PUBLICLY nonethelessthat you don't even know if it is "cold pressed".

It's people like you that I got into this industry in the first place - people who use words because they sound good, and without concern of the ramifications that they have when a consumer reads them and then goes into a LEGIT business and says "I'm raw vegan and I want to purchase chocolate made with cold pressed cocoa butter." Then my staff have to undo the damage YOU have caused.

Personally I'm dumbfounded that you haven't even thoroughly researched your ingredients in the first place, and given what you've written here, it's highly doubtful that you even have a clue if it's fair trade or organic!

Shame on you.

Brad.

Ice Blocks!
@Ice Blocks!
03/30/13 18:45:00
81 posts

Cacao Powder Grinding


Posted in: Tasting Notes

Flick me an email at info@iceblocks.name to discuss powder.JohnThe cold pressed thing is not a big deal to us, so we have never fully investigated 'cold' claims.We have to pasteurize the powder ourselves anyhow to meet Australian legal food safety / HACCP requirements.Organic is a differentiator though.Fair trade we like to support if appropriate.Would be great to make a truly fantastic chocolate ice block.
Sebastian
@Sebastian
03/30/13 05:03:03
754 posts

Cacao Powder Grinding


Posted in: Tasting Notes

I'm afraid there is no such thing as a cold pressed cocoa powder - at least i've never seen one. it may be an expeller process, but it's still going to be a hot process. The purpose of pressing is to get the cocoa butter out, and if the cocoa butter is solid, it won't come out. If you use a supercritical solvent extraction process, you can keep the temperature down, but it wont be organic then.

Really the only benefit of keeping the temp low might be to keep some of the heart healthy components around longer - which are bitter.

Sounds like whomever is making it isn't giving you quite the right process description, and from what you're indicating, however they're grinding it is simply insufficient. there's plenty of cocoa processors in your neck of the woods who will be capapble of doing a typical grind cocoa powder. i think i might know the answer - but out of curiosity who's supplying your current powder?

Ice Blocks!
@Ice Blocks!
03/29/13 21:04:01
81 posts

Cacao Powder Grinding


Posted in: Tasting Notes

Well we have been concerned about graininess for some time with one of our fair trade, organic cold pressed powders. The settled larger particles also seem more bitter. We have had some chocolate experts test the ice blocks and they agree about the grainyness.

Ill contact the CSIRO and the Symbio lab on Tuesday to see if they can do particle size and distribution. My guess is that the powder is quite coarse (i can see particles on sifting) and a bit of milling in something like a Buhler powder mill would turn it into a less bitter more smooth iced confection offering.
Sebastian
@Sebastian
03/29/13 18:15:48
754 posts

Cacao Powder Grinding


Posted in: Tasting Notes

I think you'd need to determine what it is you need, why you need it - and then determine how to get there. my guess is there's quite a bit of cocoa out there already that suits your needs... but then again you may have very unique needs!

Ice Blocks!
@Ice Blocks!
03/29/13 15:49:29
81 posts

Cacao Powder Grinding


Posted in: Tasting Notes

That's interesting machinery. Thinking about it I really need to quantify the problem first. I suppose getting a particle size distribution test done is the way to go?
Sebastian
@Sebastian
03/29/13 04:25:16
754 posts

Cacao Powder Grinding


Posted in: Tasting Notes

Most cocoa powder is 8-10 um in particle size - if you require finer, try something like a jet mill.

I'd be surprised if you required finer than that. It's probably easier simply to find an alternate cocoa powder - perhaps the one you're using is of poor quality. Jet milling can give you sub micron particle size, but it will be very, very expensive.

Ice Blocks!
@Ice Blocks!
03/28/13 21:57:48
81 posts

Cacao Powder Grinding


Posted in: Tasting Notes

We use a great cacao powder but its grind is not fine enough.We use about 20 kg over a week period.Can anyone recommend machinery to correct the grind of the cacao powder.
updated by @Ice Blocks!: 04/13/15 08:32:35
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
03/31/13 14:40:22
1,689 posts

Honey and Chocolate


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Russ:

Without actually trying it, I can't see why there would be any particular benefit to using a grinder like the ECGC12SL as a mixer, which is what you're really looking to do - mix all the ingredients together and create a more stable suspension.

How long were you thinking you'd need to leave everything in to mix? I am thinking 10-15 minutes tops, which would mean that there would be little chance for any evaporation to happen - which you do want, actually, water in the suspension increases viscosity significantly.

Most dried honey powder is a little honey and a lot of filler - usually maltodextrin. Good luck in finding something that is pure honey. I and others have been looking and we haven't found anything yet.

Russ Apotheker
@Russ Apotheker
03/31/13 07:59:35
12 posts

Honey and Chocolate


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thanks for pointing me to that Clay! Is there a benefit to running everything through a melanger before dropping it into a tempering machine?

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
03/29/13 09:42:47
1,689 posts

Honey and Chocolate


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Russ:

Colin Green in Australia started a related discussion on honey and chocolatea couple of months ago - you might want to check to see if some of the answers you seek are there.

Russ Apotheker
@Russ Apotheker
03/28/13 19:46:57
12 posts

Honey and Chocolate


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

This is my first post and I'm just starting out working with chocolate. I've beenexperimentingwith honey (liquid, creamed and raw). I've gotten some decent results but the texture of my chocolate always seems to start getting gritty and crumbly after about a week. I'm trying to figure out if this is due to not being tempered properly, because of the moisture content of the honey or possibly both and some other reasons?

Long story short, I have a tempering machine on the way. I've been using blocks of cocoa liquor, cocoa butter and a small amount of honey to make my chocolate. I'm considering buying a melanger (looking at the cocoatown ECCG-12sl). Does anyone know if it would be worthwhile to use one to get the honey and cocoaliquorbutter more evenly mixed before going into the tempering machine? I was also thinking that the heat generated from the melanger might evaporate some of the moisture out of the honey/cocoa mix? I was also considering trying to find dehydrated honey to mix in, would a melanger still be useful in the process regardless?


updated by @Russ Apotheker: 04/11/25 09:27:36
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
03/29/13 09:33:28
1,689 posts

Looking for machines for the whole BEAN TO BAR process


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Lieven:

Your production target very wide - 45-90kg chocolate per day (assuming 220 working days/year) soSebastian is right in asking what your budget is. There are several different ways to get there, and many more ways NOT to get there.

Lieven Geerinck
@Lieven Geerinck
03/27/13 22:33:20
1 posts

Looking for machines for the whole BEAN TO BAR process


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Hi,

We own a chocolate shop in Phnom Penh, Cambodia. We import the chocolate from Belgium and make the pralines and bars for the local market, upscale.

We will now set up a small 'chocolate factory' in-town for export and tourists. So we are looking to procure all machines (roasters, willowing, conching, tempering, etc.) to produce between 10-20 tons per year.

All suggestions on where to procure are very highly appreciated ! Best would be a former small chocolate factory which is closing and selling its machinery.

Brgds, Lieven


updated by @Lieven Geerinck: 04/07/25 13:00:14
Ruth Atkinson Kendrick
@Ruth Atkinson Kendrick
03/28/13 16:45:28
194 posts

Storage of Chocolate Transfer sheets


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

If the weather has been warm, I put them in the fridge when I first get them to firm up. After that, I keep in dark, dry room.

Daniel Herskovic
@Daniel Herskovic
03/28/13 12:46:31
132 posts

Storage of Chocolate Transfer sheets


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I'm going to second Kerry's suggestion. Ultimately, I am sure you will be fine if the package is sealed and you let the transfer sheets come to room temperature prior to using.

Kerry
@Kerry
03/27/13 20:36:51
288 posts

Storage of Chocolate Transfer sheets


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I'm for the dry, dark and cool storage area. I would worry about condensation with the fridge.

Valerie Herskowitz
@Valerie Herskowitz
03/27/13 09:29:57
14 posts

Storage of Chocolate Transfer sheets


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I just received my first order of custom transfers. The directions said to keep them in the refrigerator. I was surprised as I thought that would cause condensation. I have kept my other transfer sheets in a dry and dark storage area. What do you all suggest?


updated by @Valerie Herskowitz: 04/11/25 09:27:36
Karen Blueberry
@Karen Blueberry
03/29/13 07:36:49
8 posts

Buttercream Recipe Needed


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thanks Valerie.........I'll give it a try this weekend.

Karen

Karen Blueberry
@Karen Blueberry
03/26/13 12:56:00
8 posts

Buttercream Recipe Needed


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Hello Everyone,

I'm looking for a good buttercream recipe to use as centers in chocolates. Does anyone have any suggestions.

I already have a receipe with powdered sugar, corn syrup, butter etc. but would like something a bit smoother. I've never tried a cooked recipe before, would that do the trick and if so, does anyone have one they would share?

Thanks,

Karen Blueberry


updated by @Karen Blueberry: 04/11/25 09:27:36
Gustaf Mabrouk
@Gustaf Mabrouk
03/27/13 08:35:02
9 posts

Ganache???


Posted in: Chocolate Education

Thanks Gordon!! do you konw of any food historians that can solve the ganache question?

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
03/27/13 08:14:03
1,689 posts

Ganache???


Posted in: Chocolate Education

Gustaf:

On this last question: it depends on the recipe. What is the percentage of cocoa? Dark chocolate could be in the range 35% cocoa to 100% cocoa.

Also, if cocoa butter is added to the recipe you need to know the extraction ratio of non-fat cocoa solids to fat in order to know how many beans were used to generate a specific amount of cocoa butter.

And then - you need to know the fat ratio of the beans themselves. 47% fat? 53% fat?

And then - what variety of beans are you talking about? Industry is more or less standardized around 100 beans == 100 grams. However, some varieties, like the wild beans from Bolivia, are upwards of 140-160 beans per 100 grams. It takes many more Bolivian wild beans to make a kilo of chocolate than CCN51, which are much larger.

Not sure why you want to know the answer, but the question is only answerable within a narrow range, and only after you have values for the variables involved.

Gustaf Mabrouk
@Gustaf Mabrouk
03/26/13 12:51:00
9 posts

Ganache???


Posted in: Chocolate Education

BTW...How many cocoa beans does it take to make 1 kilo of dark chocolate?

Gustaf Mabrouk
@Gustaf Mabrouk
03/26/13 12:45:52
9 posts

Ganache???


Posted in: Chocolate Education

Daniela...yeah I heard that story too but I need true facts!! I saw that the word came from the French language, where it means literally, jowl, from Italian ganascia, modification of Greek gnathos jaw more at -gnathousFirst Known Use: 1977...I found this in the Merriam Webster site.

The name also refers to the lower jowl of a horse...

But I need true facts...ANYONE!!!

Daniela Vasquez
@Daniela Vasquez
03/26/13 12:15:03
58 posts

Ganache???


Posted in: Chocolate Education

It's a french word. It's supposed to mean "fool", there's was a helper in a pastry shop who spilled hot cream over chocolate by mistake and the chef called him "ganache" but the cream was a complete success. they don't use the word in its original context anymore though :)

Gustaf Mabrouk
@Gustaf Mabrouk
03/26/13 09:52:51
9 posts

Ganache???


Posted in: Chocolate Education

Hi,

I have question in regards to the word ganache...where does it come from (origin) and what does it mean?

Help!!!

G


updated by @Gustaf Mabrouk: 04/20/15 23:22:42
Greg Gould
@Greg Gould
03/26/13 09:42:02
68 posts

ACMC Help!


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

It was a loose connection on the circuit board and it's up and running. Whew.

Greg Gould
@Greg Gould
03/26/13 09:14:59
68 posts

ACMC Help!


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

At the worst possible time, the motor on my ACMC isnt working. The machine turns on, the bulbs light up and the temp display is working.

How can I be sure it's the motor before I order one?

How hard is it to install a new motor?


updated by @Greg Gould: 04/11/25 09:27:36
Thomas Snyder
@Thomas Snyder
03/27/13 14:07:00
26 posts

Deoderized or natural?


Posted in: Tasting Notes

Awesome answer, Clay! I think I'll end up just using the cocoa butter for my coveurture (it's needed to make it thinner and easier to dip with, right?), truffles and white chocolate.

BTW, LOVE this forum! It's great to have a place I can go to read the musings and thoughts of so many experienced and passionate chocolatiers.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
03/27/13 08:06:00
1,689 posts

Deoderized or natural?


Posted in: Tasting Notes

One of the reasons small bean-to-bar chocolate makers don't use added cocoa butter in their recipes is because, in order to be truly single-origin, the cocoa butter should come from the same beans used to make the chocolate.

Another reason often cited is that adding deodorized cocoa butter "dilutes" the flavor of the chocolate. Undeodorized cocoa butter has a flavor so it doesn't have the problem of diluting the flavor it has the problem of altering the flavor of the chocolate. Adding undeodorized Ghana butter to a chocolate made from Madagascar beans and what's the result?

Which way to go? It's up to you as the chocolate maker to decide. If you are going to be marketing single-origin chocolates then I think you've got a problem using cocoa butter that's not from the same origin, irrespective of whether it's deodorized or un-. If you don't have that issue, then un- is the way to go.

And - BTW - here in the US, white chocolate is legally chocolate, as long as the recipe conforms to the Standard of Identity (if it doesn't you can't call it white chocolate). FYI, perhaps the best white chocolate in the world is made with undeodorized cocoa butter: El Rey's Icoa. I tad heavily roasted for taste, but it does taste like cocoa and not sweet dairy.

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