Forum Activity for @Clay

Ben -

Neither Alan nor Colin - or you - shared with me that they/you were using convections ovens. Need to revise my opinion in that case.

:: Clay

I agree with the limitation of convection ovens for roasting and the need for regular cleaning. Not sure I agree with Clay's last statement, though, as I believe that both Patric and the Rogue Chocolatier roast in a convection oven and are widely held in high regard.

I also roast in a convection oven (a home model, no less), but I've hacked a drum into it that has made my roasts far more consistent. That being said, my chocolate was pretty well reviewed even before I switched to the drum.

Hi Clay,

Thank you for your input. I have indeed read about your concern with convection ovens. Could you share your thoughts on these points:

1. For Home Chocolatiers: I would assume you prefer a smaller roaster like the Behmor 1600 to a household oven?

2. For larger operations: I was curious to read in Askinosie's ' How we do it ' that they are using a roaster and a winnower from 'Columbia' (step 13 and step 18). I assume he means Colombia, South America and not Columbia, PA.

With Colombia being more focused in Coffee than in Chocolate, would it be a good idea to look for used coffee roasting and winnowing equipment if I am located in the country?

Thanks!

Felipe

Thanks again,

Felipe

I don't know the brand, in fact. I am on record as saying that I don't think the use of convection ovens is a good idea because it's difficult (if not impossible) to get an even roast - even when moving pans around. I would never buy a used oven for this reason without testing it to know that the temperature was even front to back, left to right, top to bottom, when full of pans.

Furthermore, one thing I do know is that the ovens need to be cleaned very often. Like every day. They are not designed to handle the build-up of fats (cocoa butter in suspension in the air). These can clog the fans, too, so it's extremely important to be diligent about cleaning them

Another point I want to mention. Roasting is a crucial element of flavor development. Why skimp out on it? If anything, you want to ensure that you're getting the best possible roast, not the cheapest possible roaster.

There are others who disagree with this opinion, but there is no one I know who is making chocolate that is using a convection oven as a roaster that makes a chocolate that is widely held (i.e., internationally) in high regard.

I believe Mast Brothers uses a Moffat Turbo convection oven, either the E-32 MS or the G32 MS. From my research, these seems to be the best in foot print size, price, and quality. They run in the price range of $2995/$5000 but I have seen them used for $1500. If you are looking for a new one, shop around, find the best price with no shipping cost or taxes.

If I am wrong on what Mast Brothers uses, I am sure Clay would know, if he is willing to share the info.

Solis:

I am curious to know why you want to know the specific brand. In reality it does not matter. The concerns are the number of racks (which determines the batch size) as well as the evenness of the airflow (and therefore the temperature of the oven cavity) from back to front, top to bottom, and left to right.

Another concern that few people talk about is recovery time. How long does it take for the oven to return to the preset temperature after the doors are opened? There are two times ... when cold items are added (i.e., new pans with beans), and when hot items are returned (i.e., after rotating/shaking the pans).

A final note that few people talk about when using convection ovens is ... how often do they need to be cleaned? Mast Bros clean every day to remove residue left over from roasts (off the sides, doors, fan mechanism). If left uncleaned, this residue can degrade the performance of the oven as well as, potentially, introduce off-odors.

Please post once you know.

Felipe Jaramillo Fonnegra , Thank you for the reply. The convection oven brand is not visible. I was at Mast Brothers last week and got a private tour but did not take note of the convection ovens. I will call them and ask.

Hi Solis,

I guess you did see the video on Vimeo?Click to View Video

Not sure if the brand of oven is visible there.

Felipe

Brad,

I have read many of your posts on this forum and this one might very well be the best and most inspiring.

Hello Andre,

I just saw your post can you email me , or call 9176567274@ BKBONGAR@GMAIL.COM

Are you still looking for a chocolate partner?Please email me if you are ?

beth bongar

bkbongar@gmail.com

Well said. Couldn't agree more!

Seeing as someone asked, here's my opinion for what it's worth:

1. There is no such work as "Can't", as in "I can't do it alone...". Men have walked on the moon. In all likelihood someone in the chocolate industry has already successfully done what you are wanting to do. You're not re-inventing the wheel.. So, you sayyou can't start your own business? "Can't" is a cop out. Period. Fear of the unknown is perfectly acceptable.Fear of making abad decision is perfectly acceptable.However, there willalways be something you don't know, and ALL decisions take you in a direction. Some directions are better than others. At least it's a direction. If you want to truly succeed at ANYTHING, and I mean ANYTHING, drop the negativity, stop saying "can't" and start asking "how". The answer may not come to you right away, but think out of the box and be resourceful. The answer will reveal itself when the time comes.

2. You have access to a commercial kitchen owned by a CATERER??? Do they not use chocolate confections at their events? Do they not know of other caterers that could use chocolate confections at their events? Could they start? You've got access to the kitchen of your first client!!!

3. Who says you have to start big? Start with farmers markets, street markets, or even putting together packages for business colleagues as client appreciation gifts. Many big names in the food industry got started in their homes.

4. DO NOT.... I repeat DO NOT, involve a partner. Partners are a P.I.T.A. and you will eventually find yourself at a business crossroads of volume, $$, creativity, and even workload. Inevitably one person always works harder than the other, and over time resentment builds. BUILD YOUR BUSINESS AND HIRE EMPLOYEES AS IT GROWS.

5. Who says you need money to start a chocolate business? How much do you have to invest to make bark? How much does it cost to make a few hundred hand rolled truffles you can sell for $2 each? No molds, no fancy equipment - just a couple of bowls, some spatulas, and a good thermometer. Oh... and about $40 wroht of ingredients. That sounds like a pretty low cost start to me. Make the BEST, and your customers will spread the word.

6. Set goals and then work your a$$ off to achieve them. Each goal should surpass the last. In no time you'll look back in amazement at what you were able to accomplish with the right attitude.

7. This one's important: Do NOT look at your business as a job!! Look at it as a source of income for you. There's a big difference: A job is a ball and chain that holds you down, prevents you from doing the things you really like, and never gets you forward. A source of income is an independent, stand aloneway to make you money while you enjoy life. When you do work for the business, send it an invoice for your time. After all, it's worth just as much money as if you had to hire someone else to do the same job. Tracking your time/money ratio will also reveal how to streamline processes and push tasks onto the hands of lower paid staff. For example: Do you REALLY need to wrap those 500 truffles, or can you pay someone $10 per hour to do that while you get on the phone and drum up more business? Your cost to the business to wrap 500 truffles: $200 and 2 hours of lost prospecting time. The cost of a temporary laborer: $20MINUS 2 hours of your time freed up to drum up more business = -$180. You have just saved your company $180.

I know it sounds cliche, but it's SO true: Winners never quit, and quitters never win.

Hope that helps.

Brad

Andre;

As an entrepreneur who's built and sold numerous ventures, as well as succeeded and failed at others, and helped friends package and sell their own businesses, and to top it off now owns and operates a very successful chocolate company, would you like my CANDID opinion?

I will not write it here unless you ask for it, and agree not to take offence to anything I may write.

Brad

I am in the same boat here in Atlanta. Would you consider moving?? I have been making chocolate for many years and it is more than a one person job.

Lydia

Hi everyone.

I am a graduate from Ecole Chocolat from 2009, and 2 years later I still don't have my own chocolate business!

After a lot of thinking, I believe the main reason is that I can't do it alone. Just like in almost any business, a partner is essential to a startup - without that, for me, chocolate will always be a hobby, which is not what I am looking for.

So I am reaching out to the forum members who live in New York City and who are on the same boat I am now:

- I work full time (in Brooklyn).

- I don't have a lot of money to start something fancy, so working smart for me is the way to go.

- I want to create a business that, eventually, will allow me to quit my 9-to-5 so I can work full time in the business.

What I have in place so far:

- The company is called DaCosta Chocolates and is registered as a LLC.

- Insurance (paid until August 2012).

- A commercial kitchen we could use. The kitchen belongs to a catering company, which is located in Brooklyn, which means we could have access to the kitchen when they are not working on it. There are other options also available when it comes to kitchens. We can discuss when we talk in person.

- I have a great accountant that is very inexpensive and very sensible to the needs of small business owners - as he is a small business owner himself.

So, if you want to start working towards a great business with a nice guy (I am a very nice guy!!), drop me a note. I want to take it slowly, and build the business in a way that won't burn us out - but the main goal is to create a serious company that will make us money, and keep us happy by doing what we love!

Andre Costa

Hi Everyone, I was wondering if it is possible to decorate chocolates with royal icing or will the royal icing do something to the chocolate.

The reason I ask is because I cannot afford a bag of white chocolate at the moment and I need to do some decorations in white for Christmas.

I have lots of cocoa butter though and maybe I can color it white somehow and use that. Does anyone have any ideas for me please. How do I get the cocoa butter white and do I have to temper it before I use it? I do not even know if you get edible white coloring and if I will be able to get it. I see recipes where people add milk powder to cocoa butter, will that be an option?

Thanks

Our mistake was not to plan the floor space properly, you need to a have a good flow and prevent your staff to run up and down all day to get things done. We have opened 5 months ago and because planning wasn't right we have been moving things around every week! (bean to bar www.cocoafair.com )

Have a lot of multiple electric points so you can move your tools around easily. Check your machine electrical consumption and invest in a proper electrical board otherwise you will have to add on a lot with huge costs.

have 2 big sink for washing and an air compressor for drying your moulds.

Buy a continuos tempering machine (Fbm boscolo, Selmi etc) with dedicated belt for coatings.

don't try save on the tempering, you will waste a huge amount of hours by tempting to temper with machines that are cheaper.

have a small "shop window" it will help you make money.

Hope it helps!

Hello from NZ,

We are in the process of moving into manufacturing our own product - up until now we have been a retailer of other peoples products. We will slowly phase in our own products as we gain proficiency.

I am yet to decide on a tempering machine. I am going to spend quite a bit on a powerful air conditioner/dehumidifier to control the atmosphere in our little factory.

At this stage, we will only be chocolate melters - but eventually will develop more into bean - bar chocolate. One step at a time!

What are the main mistakes others have made when setting up their manufacturing? What issues should we be aware of before starting out?

Thanks so much in advance for your advice

Stu

Hi Melanie,

How is the built of your Martellato guitar?

I think the same. Because the strings are short, they don't stretch very much, making them last longer. And changing the strings should also be easier.

The guitars shown in the links have a wheel mechanism that, as you said,should enable someone apply lot of force with a little leverage.

Omar:

I certainly know that it made it very easy to replace the strings! Also, the strings were short so they didn't stretch very much, making them last longer.

Using the device was a little tricky as it relied on physical strength to push the slab through the strings (with a pusher). At some point, it becomes very difficult to work this way. I can imagine creating a simple ratchet mechanism that would enable someone to apply a lot of force with a little leverage.

Hi Clayton,

Thanks for your reply. Do you think this type of guitar would make cutting firm slabs easier and also the broken wire problems would be reduced considerably?

Thanks,

Omar

I saw a handmade version of a guitar like this in Bolivia made using - believe it or not - real guitar tuning pegs to stretch the wires. Very ingenious. The main difference is that the material was pushed through the guitar by hand.

The board was shaped like an "L" and material was pushed through one set of strings than pushed through the other without having to be removed from the board. It was made from wood, but no reason it couldn't be made from aluminum and HDPE pretty inexpensively.

I will look to see if I can find the pictures and post.

Pavoni hasmanual and automatic models.

Link for the manual model:

http://www.pavonitalia.com/gestore.php?var0=eng&var1=Products&var2=MACHINES&var3=Cutter_units&var4=Manual_Lira

Youtube video link:

Lira Manuale (UK)

Link for the automatic model:

http://www.pavonitalia.com/gestore.php?var0=eng&var1=Products&var2=MACHINES&var3=Cutter_units&var4=Lira----E

Youtube video link:

Lira Automatica (UK)

Do you think the driving-force system is worth paying more money?

It seems like thistype of guitardoesn't have the broken-string problems (or not as often)thattraditional ones have, which are a pain to replace.

Thanks,

Omar

Haven't tried this but Chocolate World has something similar in automatic or manual.

I have a regular Martellano guitar and the strings are really hard to replace.

Hello everybody,

Has anybody tried or used the Martellato guitar? Here is the link:

http://www.martellato.com/scheda.asp?content=2,83,91,1126,chitarra_taglio_a_spinta_40x40,01.html

Its description says the the shortness of the wire ensures more machanical resistance and the possibility to cut hard and frozen products, which seems to make sense. And the cutting frame always keep at an open angle, contrary to the traditional guitar, which angle closes as it cuts the slab, becomingharder as the resistance increases. Unfortunately, the price tag is very high at US$4,939.00 on the Martellato USA website:

http://www.martellatousa.com/product/CSM040/New_Guitar_With_Driving-Force_System_15.74%27%27_X_15.74%27%27.html?cid=30

You can also watch a video on youtube:

Chitarra per pasticceria Martellato srl.mov

What do you think? Any input or feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Omar

Dredge this thread up for other ideas. Not really wanting to invest in a case but I'm sure shipping from Quebec (Perfect enrober here) won't be the most cost effective orexpedient toStateside.

I have a perfect enrober and buy paper rolls from them when I need to. Perfect does a lot of custom work so most likely they would be able to create what you need based on your specifications. Good luck.

thanks for the info

Mahalo, I'll give him a ring.

Have you tried Harold Guttman? I think you have to get a full case from him, but he deals directly with mills and he will send you samples of possible papers before you commit to a large order. His contact info:

800-203-9213

fax 866-372-2403

harold@guttmanfam.com

I am jealous of your SELMI;

I have 12.5" and 8.66" in stock used on the Dedy 220mm and 320mm enrobers.

I'm currently working with cocoa farmers in Peru and am trying to get better information on pricing. I have fragmented information for some markets, but often the information is stale and I'm not sure how reliable.

I'm interesting both in FOB prices as well as Farmgate prices.

Basically looking for data points (e.g. what is the premium to bulk for fine cacao in Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador, Trinidad, etc.) And the any color on how that premium would be reflected at the farm gate level.

For example, the data I've seen indicate a 100% premium for Trinidad. Is that premium really unique to Trinidad and not applicable to other markets? Or can a country achieve a certain premium by managing the bean selection and post harvest processing discipline correctly? Does the government need major involvement to achieve aspirational premiums?

Most important for me is to understand how farmers can receive higher income by entering into the fine cocoa market.