Forum Activity for @Clay

Jim -

In purpose-built fridges the purpose is all about short recovery times. Getting back to the desired RH and temp quickly when the door is closed.

The larger Everlasting fridges, in part because they are deep and narrow, recover very quickly. It's also one of the reasons I recommend the double-door version as this reduces recovery time.

Another aspect of these purpose-built fridges is the circulation of air. It's designed to remove the latent heat of crystallization efficiently. (And the humidity.)

You can't use an external controller for temp as when you turn on the fridge (at least many commercial fridges) the first thing they do is go into defrost mode.

H'mm. Thank you for sharing this. I really appreciate it. Since the smell comes from fermentation, and that produces acetic acid, I wonder if the bags could be washed in a tub of baking soda (a base) to counteract the smell. Anyone tried this? I would be happy to try it if I can get any of you chocolate makers to send me some bags. I will pay!

I am not sure if you are planning on using real used cocoa bags but I would caution you on this. I purchased some from BurlapFabric.com expecting to do the same - decorate my store and it was a HUGE mistake. Since the fermented beans are shipped in these bags...they stink to high heaven. There was such a bad smell from the cocoa bags that I had to store them in my garage until I figured that even washing wasn't going to save them. I ended up having to toss all of them.

They were super cool to look at and seemed like they would be great decor but in the end I was told from other chocolatiers, the smell in the bags is pretty common and does not come out.

Still interested in the cutter

I have done some more reading on RH in refrigerators, and what I read is not conclusive. Apparently fridges with the door shut for a while have a very low humidity level, but when the door is opened, the RH goes up quite fast. I roughly verified these observations with my hygrometer. Are there ways in which a cooler specifically for chocolate would operate any differently? In other words, why wouldn't placing a mold with crystallizing chocolate raise the RH same as a regular fridge?

I'm doing some redecorating in my shop and an interested in using cacao bags for decor. Please shoot me an email at info@stcroixchocolateco.com with what you have and what you'd like for them. Interested in wide variety of origins. Thank you.

I have been told that about 55F (about 13C) is a good temperature to start with. RH about the same 50-55.

The Everlasting 130 with a glass door is about £2700 plus shipping. Stainless steel is about £100 cheaper. Takes about 60 days from completion of order. It's 220V single-phase, no 120V option, so might not work in a home environment. The load is pretty low so you might be able to use an electronic transformer designed for appliances with reactive loads (e.g., refrigerators with compressors).

Clay,

Thanks for the helpful response. I have the Moso charcoal bag in a wine fridge, but I have never been convinced it did any good. I'll test the RH with and without it. What you say about chilling a mold in a sealed plastic bag confirms what I suspected, so I guess that idea is out.

I have just reread Peter Greweling's section on the latent heat of crystallization. He mentions refrigerating the chocolates to help with the problem but cautions that the temp (he specifies as 51F [corrected 7/6/17: Greweling specifies 41F] as ideal) and humidity of the fridge should not be too high (easier said than done in a home situation).

Can you provide an approximate cost of the Everlasting 130 (mini cooler)? I have seen that Hilliard's also makes a chilling cabinet, and although I expected the cost to be substantial, it was higher than I anticipated.

@chocotoymaker -

It's in section 3.14 of the following document:

https://www.fda.gov/ICECI/Inspections/InspectionGuides/ucm074948.htm

@jim-dutton - 

To the extent that you reduce the amount of moisture in the immediate environment that can condense on the surface - maybe. However, the labor and time involved may not be worth it.

However, airflow over the surfaces of the mold (there is a fan in the fridge that works all the time, right?) are key to removing the latent heat of crystallization and so containing the mold as you suggest would certainly slow crystallization down, could interfere with it - reducing the quality of the temper, and might not solve the moisture problem.

First thing is to know what the RH in the fridge is. If you don't want to invest a lot of $$, try something like a Moso Natural charcoal bag or something similar just to see where that takes the RH to and see if that solves your problem.

I don't usually attempt much chocolate-making in the humid summer months, but my business appears to be expanding, so I am trying to cope. The air conditioning in the house (I am a home-based operation) removes enough humidity to get the RH in the 40% range, but when I put the molds in the fridge (to take care of the latent heat of crystallization), the humidity is considerably higher. Before I give more serious thought to a humidity-controlled cooler, I was wondering if this very low-tech procedure would help: Once a mold is prepared with chocolate and the chocolate has begun to crystallize, I could seal the mold in a plastic bag (not vacuumed, just sealed with an impulse sealer) and put it in the fridge. This would take a little time, but it would be easy. My question is whether it would work: does a mold have to be open to the air for the latent heat to dissipate? 

Have you sold your Prima yet?  

3d print the positive and seal with an epoxy resin. Then make the negative using food safe silicone. I tried using 3d printed abs as a test run for personal use. Cleaning it was a nightmare and heating and cooling warped it. Not to mention the potential bacteria growth in-between poolry sealed layers. It's much easier, faster and more reliable to print a positive, have a low infil and then do what I said. If you have a very soft silicone it's even better since you can get away with having a single piece mould rather than a two piece. The key is 100000% in the prep of the positive. If you rush it or use the wrong resin to seal it you end up with the lines transfering into your moulds and then chocolate.

By sealing I mean sealing the ridges of each layer. Anotjer option I've explored is vacum forming using APET Plastic. It's food grade and usually comes around 5mm thick so it's dead durable. But it's expensive and requires a beefy vac former.

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I came across Cooler King and am trying to understand it.  It seems to be a product, good for 3 months, you place inside your refrigerator?  But it appears to be a service business as much as a product, is it similar to getting bottle water service?  I figure if that is the case the chance that we have that as an option in Montana is not great.  I will look at the other one you mentioned.

As to sourcing the refrigeration options, I would be happy to take a look.

Thank you!

The major issue is managing humidity if there is a temperature difference between the room and the cooler.

There are static options.

One is Cooler King from PolarFresh:
http://www.polarfresh.com

Another is HumiClear:
http://humiclear.com

The great thing about static systems is that you can retrofit them to any existing cabinet (e.g., wine fridge).

However, if you are interested in a new cooling solution with built-in humidity control, the fridges from Everlasting are very good and I can source them for you.

I use these and they are perfect.

I also use a wine fridge (actually I current have 2), but you need to find one that is able to maintain a consistent temperature. The first one I had fluctuated so badly that it couldn't really be used for chocolate OR wine.

One more edit: the humidity is surprisingly high in both fridges but I guess because the temp is higher than a normal fridge its not such an issue.

My spouse does some home brewing.  Looking at his equipment options he says there is a dehumidifier of some type that he thinks could be used with the refrigerator.  I need to look at that to understand how it works. 

I like the wine cooler idea.  Hilliard Cooling Cabinet-I have contemplated getting one but the capacity seems so low that I hesitate to put the money into something that seems like such a short time fix.  Are they the only ones who have modified an AC motor to use in a cabinet/fridge like set up?  

I'm making chocolate dipped  caramels and Pate De Fruit but humidity is always a problem in the summer. I'm thinking of having a box built like a Hillards cooling cabinet but instead of an AC it would be hooked up to a dehumidifier.   The intake would be on the inside of the box and would vent out. The room itself is cool so I don't see the need to use an AC.  

Thoughts?  Would this even work?

Just realized you're enrobing chocolates.  If you can find a way to go from the fridge to room temperature, with something in between like a wine cooler,that might work.

My local home depot has thermometer/humidity monitors or about $15.  I have to run a dehumidifier in the summer here non stop, more than the AC, and even then I get some condensation sometimes.

Switching to a Hillards cooling cabinet instead of a fridge will also help because the temperature of the molds won't be so low as to cause condensation.

One trick I learned after using the firdge/freezer to get stuck chocolates out: wrap the mold in plastic wrap so it's airtight.  If there's no air, there's no condensation.   

- Clay

Thanks so much for that i've had a really hard look and read through it! I appreciate you keeping it simple for me too!

Thaanks alot!

There are a bunch of options on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_8?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=humidity+gauge

I would put one inside the refrigerator and get one for the room. I would not get a dual-zone system if it is wired. Which one? I have not used any of these so I don't have specific recommendations. However, there are many inexpensive options so the risk is low.

I am going to have to get something.  Recommendations?  

I am looking for something like the Chocovision 3ZRev or ChocoTT/mini enrober. We need to increase capacity but to the industrial size just yet.

Located in southern MN (near IA) but with shipping connections throughout US.

Do you have some way to measure the humidity inside the fridge and inside the room? There's moisture somewhere that's condensing on the surface of the product - caused by temperature differential / dew point.

Cacoa Noel-brand black cocoa powder in 3 pound tubs. They might have a larger size. Contact Paris Gourmet.

Blommer offers a black cocoa powder. Call them and find out who sells in your area.
http://www.blommer.com/products-cocoa-powders.php

As I work on recipes at home I use a regular refrigerator for my product which is enrobed with chocolate.  After taking the enrobed product out, there was  slight sweating.  I checked the room temp and it read 73-74F.  I turned on the house a/c and had temp at 66-68, sweat disappeared.  Aesthetically it looks fine but upon touch there is a graininess there and likely with a magnifying glass I am guessing it wouldn't look as smooth. Is it the humidity in the refrigerator that starts the problem or what is it that I need to understand and what are the remedies?  Thanks

Hi Clay,

I am looking for 25 lbs at time.  I am in Montana

garfoid -

In order to get chocolate to set properly (snap and sheen) it needs to be tempered to promote the formation of the right crystal structure.

Hand tempering is a skill that needs to be learned - a process that takes time and practice and not necessarily something that someone who is just making a few of something once a year (or lifetime) wants to master.

One option is to use a compound - a "chocolate" where cocoa butter is replaced by another fat, called a cocoa butter equivalent (or CBE) or cocoa butter replacement (CBR). These fats have higher melting points and are solid at room temperature and they don't need tempering. They are often sold as candy melts. 

However, if you are using real chocolate and don't have the patience or skill to temper, then adding some wax to the chocolate will force it to harden in an acceptable way when it cools.

I took a look through CFR 21. to see if there were any applications where paraffin could be used on a label without disclosing it and I don't see one. There are persistent claims that paraffin is added to cheap chocolates on a regular basis, and don't need to be disclosed because they can be listed as "other flavors" and I don't see that in the regulations regarding paraffin as a food additive.

How much are you looking for and where are you located?

If you copy and paste the URL into your browser (rather than clicking on it) it will come up.

Thanks for the reply Kerry, what would you say to people who claim that it is in cheaper chocolate bars, especially in hotter climates? 

Paraffin was commonly used in home made chocolates when I was a kid to avoid tempering - it is not used in chocolate these days.

Subscribed on Pocket Casts! Thanks so much for this! It's great! 

Maybe its stupid, but a low tech solution would be a brick you've kept in an oven at a low temperature over night, then turn the oven off, leaving the brick in there and it should maintain a warm temperature without getting too hot? 

Hey guys! 

I'm just curious as to what parafin wax does. Obviously being a wax, it helps the chocolate to set, well kinda 'forces' it to set around the wax molecules, giving it a higher melting point.

Is wax common in mass chocolate production? I can't find any manufacturer with an ingredient as 'wax' but there are so many claims, I just want to understand why. 

Any help is appreciated! 

Cheers!

Gareth 

Hey! I'm a Brit currently living in Turkey, although i'll be returning home soon to start my business there!

I own a novelty chocolate company, the details are super secret right now, but once we're launching i'll announce it here! 

I love designing my own moulds on Fusion 360, 3D printing them and casting them with food safe silicone! I'll be asking lots of questions so its a good start to introduce myself!

Can I ask you, would the refiner work for making but butters, so you think? If so, I would be interested. You can email me at Christy @ christysconfections .com (no spaces)

Sorry, total for the tall dark green boxes is 100 boxes/1 case.

If you're still invested, please send your email address to christine.neococoa@gmail.com and I'll send you a PayPal invoice. Thanks!

Hi everyone!

We have a very lightly used Packint destoner for sale. Purchased at $9000 and we are asking $7000. See photos below and feel free to email annie@dandelionchocolate.com with any questions!

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