Forum Activity for @Peter3

Fat Bloom, fat migration, under tempering? Wonder what it could be (pictures attached)

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I agree with Sebastian that it's very difficult to troubleshoot from distance (and across different unit systems).

I would suggest making a much smaller batch using just plain chocolate (so it can be remelted and reused) with current temperature settings. Than another with cooling stage 2 degrees lower and heating same, than another with cooling stage same but heating 1-2 degrees lower, another with cooling same and heating 1-2 degrees higher.

Check the temper and make bars. Inspect them after a few days and see which ones look best.

This is your best way to find correct tempering settings without temper meter.

Batch tempering is very tricky process to nail down as chocolate temper will change with time. Crystal formation or melting will keep going on resulting in perfectly tempered chocolate losingtemper if it's not used fast.

We have a block with inclusions process where we do batch temper and our batch size isaround 15kg. Chocolate gets tempered, mixed with inclusions and moulded over 15 minutes. You can see the difference between block/bars made at the beginning of the batch and ones made at the end. We just discussed dropping batch size to 10kg or less.

Fat Bloom, fat migration, under tempering? Wonder what it could be (pictures attached)

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

the site's not allowing me to respond to your last post, so i'll just do it here.

Trouble shooting remotely's always a tricky proposition. Yes temper meters are expensive, but they do pretty much guarantee success. There's no question as to if you have achieved temper or not. I suppose it's like many things - the value equation changes over time (and certainly with scale) - a tool that may have not made sense when you're very small may makes all kinds of sense as you grow.

It doesn't feel like we've identified what's causing your headaches. Sounds like you're pretty confident in your thermometers, the temperature of the nuts is under control, and the issue appears to be isolated to chocolates made using that one batch of liquor - which suggests it has something to do with the liquor. Perhaps it's fatty acid composition is sufficiently different than what you're accustomed to using (meaning your tempering profile will need to change). It may be that, if so, you could compensate a bit by adjusting your formulation to include some milk fat (2% - 3% at the expense of lowering the cocoa butter) to try to build in sufficient bloom resistance to mitigate whatever's causing the issue from the liquor.

RE: nut roasting, there are difference between air and oil roasting, but generally the lower temperatures you roast at, the slower oxidation occurs.

Fat Bloom, fat migration, under tempering? Wonder what it could be (pictures attached)

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

We bought a new thermometers, and checked the temps/humidity of the working environment and refrigerator. Everything seems fine, but the humidity in the refrigerator which gets quite high. I doubt the humidity is the issue as we haven't had any condensation form on the chocolate. The bars are removed as soon as they pull off from the moulds.

Our process involves receiving liquor, butter, and sugar then mixing,tempering and molding.

We talked to our supplier about this specific batch number of paste/butter and they haven't had any complaints from other customers.

Those pricey temper meters seemed unnecessary. Our thoughts have always been that a chocolate's temper is a (yes or no) type of thing which the eye and an easy test (knife tip) would suffice.

As far as the nuts, thats very interesting and will have to look into it. I was also under the opinion that roasting a nut would accelerate the oxidation process and would less stable. Please correct me if Im wrong, as Im no expert.

thanks

Fat Bloom, fat migration, under tempering? Wonder what it could be (pictures attached)

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

1. 80-100lbs

2. Usually let the machine continue to agitate the chocolate for 20-30 once its come to temper (88.7f). then> read below

3. we will dump 40lbs of the "tempered" chocolate from the Savage Bros machine into our large Chocovision set to 88.7f. Once in that machine, we will dip a clean knife in the chocolate and place in our modified refrigerator or cooling room.

4. The machine is fairly new and have never thought to check the instruments on it. How would one do so?

5. We have not. Our temp settings are currently Melt(120f)>Cool(84f)>Heat(88.7f)

I think you might be on to something Peter. We have just started doing larger batches 80-100lbs and since doing so our temper has been a bit all over the place. When the temper is less than Ideal, our thought was it just needed to be agitated longer for the correct tempered forms to proliferate.

Thanks

Fat Bloom, fat migration, under tempering? Wonder what it could be (pictures attached)

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Remember, it's always time, temperature, or contamination.

Were you able to validate the accuracy of your thermometers?

If you'd achieved success historically, and if you're successful with the new batch of liquor - meaning you're problematic with only a specific lot of liquor - then i'd look very closely at that liquor. Remember not all liquor is created equal - the amount and type of cocoa butter in it can be different - which means that your tempering process and/or final formulation may need to be tweaked as a result. it's also possible (although unlikely) that you received a batch of liquor that had been contaminated with another type of fat. not know the supply chain you're using it's impossible for me to say.

are you receiving liquor, making your own chocolate, and then mixing/molding it? or are you purchasing finished chocolate from someone? if the latter, have you provided the original mfr lot information and detailed problem log so they can troubleshoot that specific lots production information? Do you have a temper meter you use to check temper?

I can rule out fungal issues w/o asking any more questions - it's not that.

Are you soaking the nuts to attempt to degrade phytic acid for nutritive reasons? if so, might i make a suggestion and eliminate that process - there no evidence it's effective (i've done the study), and increases the likelihood of micro issues quite a bit. You may find marketing value in it; however there's no scientific basis for it.

Fat Bloom, fat migration, under tempering? Wonder what it could be (pictures attached)

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I must admitt that only now I realized what issue you are talking about. Photos in the first post had a lot of white spots (very small) and they looked like a result of water droplets or condensation.

Didn't know what to say as you seem to have the temperatures dew point

relationship under control.

Only with the last post and pictures I realized you are talking about: large bloomed areas on the inclusions. If I'm correct?.

After reading about your process in the above posts I have a few questions:

1. You batch temper your chocolate, what is the batch size?

2. After chocolate has been tempered, how long does it stay in tempered stage befor you use it?

3. In the morning you check the temper, how do you do it?

4. Have you checked if the instruments on your tempering machine are calibrated? That means that if the chocolate temperature is let's say 80F is the sensor reading (or display showing) the same temperature?

5. Have you tried different temperature settings for your tempering?

I would guess that there is an issue with your tempering and adding inclusions with different temperature makes the problem show up.

Batch tempering chocolate is very often a hit and miss afair as tempered chocolate does not really "hold temper" for a long time.

Fat Bloom, fat migration, under tempering? Wonder what it could be (pictures attached)

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Hey Sebastian

The saga continues.....

We have tried just about everything, including setting up a dedicated "cool" room with a Tripp Lite AC blowing cold, dry 64f air over the bars, heating up the inclusions before adding them to the chocolate, heating up molds, etc.

The bars set up nice and quick but after only 6 hrs they show whitish grey marks where the inclusions are located. What looks like a localized issue eventually effects the whole bar. VERY STRANGE. -See picture-

It also turns out that even the Chocolate bars without inclusions after a week storedat a controlled 71f start to turn whitish grey.

Our next idea was to try using some over-the-counter couverture using our same inclusions and process. The bars turned out perfect! No white spots/blemishes.

Having done this, it got us thinking and it turns out our chocolate took a turn for the worse after receiving a new batch of Cacao Paste. AAAHAA

Have you every seen or heard of anything like this..? Could it really be fungus/mold?

Fat Bloom, fat migration, under tempering? Wonder what it could be (pictures attached)

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Will check the temps again to rule that out.

Our inclusions are soaked and dehydrated which makes for a very stable nut that isn't oily like oil roasted nut or even dry roasted for that matter.

The bars don't appear to have any condensation on them when they are taken out of the cooler. Using the infrared thermometer, the bars are about 75f or so when taken out which is well above the dew point.

We are going to try a couples again today to try and figure the mess out.

Really appreciate the help

Safe travels

Fat Bloom, fat migration, under tempering? Wonder what it could be (pictures attached)

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

hmm.. it's always either time, temperature, or contamination. Are you confident your thermometers are accurate? If so, i suppose if your almonds are oil roasted, you may be seeing some residual surface oil from roasting result in surface bloom. Another thought - are you certain it's fat bloom (i.e. could it be sugar bloom? are you getting any condensation on the bars when removed from the cooler?)

i'm afraid i've got to travel for a few days, leaving today, so responses are likely to be delayed.

Fat Bloom, fat migration, under tempering? Wonder what it could be (pictures attached)

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Another thought is the thermal mass of the entire refrigerator(pictured) when filled with molds.

Maybe the filled refrigerator isn't cold enough and doesn't cool the chocolate fast enough??

There is up to 90 molds in there at a time which probably give off quite a bit of heat

Fat Bloom, fat migration, under tempering? Wonder what it could be (pictures attached)

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Hey Sebastian,

So we just did another huge production of 600 bars and they bloomed again within 24hrs:(

This time warming the inclusions to 88.7f, our tempered dark chocolate temp.

See pictures.

Its really frustrating because for the last year we have been in a shared commercial kitchen with less than ideal conditions (75-78f) and humidity over 50% sometimes. In that kitchen we successfully made over 30,000 bars with no issues. And now, since moving into our newly built out kitchen with supposedly perfect chocolate making condition, we are struggling like complete newbies..

In the attached picture you can see how badly the bars with inclusions have bloomed. For reference, I also posted a plain dark chocolate bar that came out absolutely perfect from the same batch of Chocolate.

Our process goes like this:

-Load Savage Brothers tempering machine with raw materials at night and set machine to have the chocolate tempered in the morning.

-In the morning we check the temper of the chocolate, if correct, we transfer 30# of tempered chocolate at a time to our Chocovison 3z machine for easier work flow.

-Tempered chocolate is portioned into warmed stainless steel bowl, inclusions are mixed in and then hand poured into molds with a portioning scoop.

-the molds are then put into the True-49 refrigerator(with a wine/choc thermostat) from the bottom up

-once the chocolate is set (pulled of from mold), they are removed from refrigerators and set on racks.

This process has worked well for us at our old kitchen but for some reason isn't working in our new one and its driving us crazy!

On the front of the bloomed chocolates, the white blemishes are directly above inclusions(in this case nuts).

Yesterday, we also tried a different method of setting up the chocolate whereby we filled the bar molds and then let the chocolate bars sit at room temp(69-70f) for 15 minutes until the backs went from liquid to solid matte. Then the bars were placed in the refrigerator(55-60f) to finished the cooling process. These bars unfortunately also had that nightmarish bloom.

Some other info that could help you diagnose this problem:

-64g Chocolate bars.

-1/4 inch thin molds

-vacuum formed molds from Tomric.

Really hope you can help us find the issue

Thanks in advance.

Fat Bloom, fat migration, under tempering? Wonder what it could be (pictures attached)

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

quite welcome - let us know if it doesn't work!

Fat Bloom, fat migration, under tempering? Wonder what it could be (pictures attached)

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Soaked in filter water and then dehydrated at 170f for close to to 24 hrs to get rid of some of the enzyme inhibiters which affects digestion.

The almonds are room temp (68-70f).

Ive read over and over that inclusion should be the same temp as the tempered chocolate(88.7f) but for some reason I didn't think it was that big of a deal. In my mind, I thought having inclusions colder than the chocolate would just accelerate the crystallization of the chocolate but not affect the bar negatively.

Thank you so much for the help

Fat Bloom, fat migration, under tempering? Wonder what it could be (pictures attached)

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Soaked in what?

What's the temperature of your almonds when you put them in the chocolate - remember if they're too cold or too warm, they will result in localized over temper / under temper. ideally they'd be *slightly* warmer than your chocolate (for example, 89F)

Fat Bloom, fat migration, under tempering? Wonder what it could be (pictures attached)

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Hi,

I made some Dark chocolate yesterday and the bars already have white spots on them. The white spots are exactly where the inclusions (soaked and dehydrated Almonds) are.

Is this Fat Migration, or a tempering issue ?

Chocolate Bars set up in a True T-49 refrigerator with a chocolate/wine thermostat (55-60f).

Really confused as to what is causing this as our conditions are idea.

68f working environment, automatic savage brother tempering machine, vibrating table. etc

Any help would be much appreciated.

thanks

updated by @Louwegi: 04/11/25 09:27:36

Hand dipping candy problems

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Sometimes it is slab candy. Sometimes it's miscellaneous shapes and piece. I will try the method for slab candy but I never over tempered chocolate at least not on purpose.

Hand dipping candy problems

Posted in: Tasting Notes

no, the chocolate around the edge will seal to the dot.

We used to do this to dip cream fondant. Now we've switched to dipping the fondant with the slab method that Gap mentioned. - precoating the bottom & using a dipping fork to dip.It is MUCH faster, easier, and it has eliminated our spurts altogether.

Hand dipping candy problems

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Along the lines of Peter's response: what candy are you coating? Is it something you make in a "slab" before cutting up and then dipping? If it is, then you can pre-coat the bottom of the slab with over-tempered chocolate, cut up the slab into bite-size bits and then coat them in chocolate putting the pre-coated side as the bottom (essentially giving the bottom two layers).

Hand dipping candy problems

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Coating it with chocolate twice is the best solution.

Hand dipping candy problems

Posted in: Tasting Notes

But wouldn't the same thing happen to the chocolate that's on the hardened dot?

Hand dipping candy problems

Posted in: Tasting Notes

So basically the candy sits on the dot of hardened chocolate and the weight of the candy no longer has an effect on the bottom. Nice idea never occurred to me

Hand dipping candy problems

Posted in: Tasting Notes

The problem is the weight of the candy is pushing the the chocolate out from the bottom.Try making some dots on your parchment then dipping the candy onto the the hardened dot.

Hand dipping candy problems

Posted in: Tasting Notes

I am have trouble with my candy when I dip it. I dip the candy with a fork or whatever then I put the candy on parchment paper or a silpal May but then the bottom of the candy will have spaces or not be fully covered. How do I get the bottom completely covered?
updated by @Bryan: 04/10/15 14:59:40

Liquering

Posted in: Opinion

I'm not sure what you mean by liquoring. Do you just mean that the chocolate maker who makes the chocolate you use does not pre-grind his nibs before further refining? If so, I don't think that should cause the problems you're having, as that's what myself and many other makers do, and the resulting chocolate tempers fine.

Liquering

Posted in: Opinion

So it is definitely worth looking into. I feel like not liquering is reducing the amount of cocoa butter and fat in the chocolate. Guess I will find out! Thank you Larry

Liquering

Posted in: Opinion

Sarah,

This is a novice answer, so please take it with a grain of salt, or better yet, a truffle.

Skipping the step of grinding the nibs into chocolate liquor prior to further processing could affect the particle size or shape of the finished chocolate.

I've read that you can add nibs directly to some machines and the chocolate will come out just fine. However, the processing time will generally be shorter if you work with chocolate liquor. - The particles are already much smaller.

I've read that there is a point at which each cocoa solid particle is coated in a layer of fat. This coating allows the chocolate to glide smoothly and gives it a nice mouthfeel. If the particles are too small, then the surface area for a given amount of cocoa butter is too great and there isn't enough cocoa butter to coat the particles.

See Industrial Chocolate Manufacture and Use Chapter 7

http://books.google.com/books?id=xYe5oTopUTAC&pg=PT174&lpg=PT174&dq=cocoa+particle+shape&source=bl&ots=WOF_pOOz4k&sig=LK0tWpX2yZ5L7veU58faW-fiyGo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=bQkLVOa4ENHboAS77YKYDw&ved=0CHkQ6AEwCg#v=onepage&q=cocoa%20particle%20shape&f=false

If the cocoa butter is not sufficiently coating the cocoa, sugar, and ?milk? particles, then it would make sense that it cannot form a uniform tempered structure and thus crumble easily.

Again, I'm still a novice and chocolate is complexso I'm sure there is more going on.

Liquering

Posted in: Opinion

I've noticed my chocolate maker doesn't liquer his nibs anymore. We don't add extra cocoa butter or chemicals to our process. I've noticed my chocolate is crumbly and difficult to temper. I used to not have any issues until summer hit. We try to control the temperature of the shop but it seems to consistently stay at 81F. Could this physical change be caused by not liquering?
updated by @Sarah8: 04/23/15 18:38:07

Savage Bros. Melter vs. Tempering Machine

Posted in: Tasting Notes

We are looking at buying some new equipment, but would like to see if we can gather some feedback on a couple of pieces. Does anyone here use the fully automated tempering machine from Savage? (maybe there is more than one?) It's got lots of bells and whistles, such as being able to set it 7 days in advance to have chocolate ready at such-and-such a time. The more bells and whistles, however, may mean more repairs, etc.

Thanks!

updated by @Nicole5: 04/09/15 14:42:23

Looking for inexpensive ways to stir caramel

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Hi!

My store has a Savage stove with the largest copper kettle. You may want to know that it takes 3 hours of hand stirring to produce the caramel though....

BTW I was reading your post about fudge. I am new to the forum. Did anyone respond. I too am having the devil's time finding commercial recipes for fudge, specifically copper kettle fudge (the Savage kettle again).

Would much appreciate it if you could share what comes your way???

Tx,

Marie

Looking for inexpensive ways to stir caramel

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I cook all the sugars, corn syrups, butters etc together first and bring it up to 240 then add the creams then bring it back up again. Reduces the time by about 20 minutes for me. similar taste to a traditional caramel BUT not exactly the same.

Looking for inexpensive ways to stir caramel

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thanks Larry. I do use sweetened condensed milk and I'll try your other suggestions.

Looking for inexpensive ways to stir caramel

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Using evaporated milk instead of regular milk would speed the process up because there is less liquid to evaporate. Same with sweetened condensed milk (although the brands of sweetened condensed milk I've checked don't have any protein; which would increase the cold flow).Letting your butter come to room temp helps a lot as well.I've tried using a fan to blow the caramel while cooking, but I'm not sure that helped much.Also the pot shape could help. ( a wider pot will have a greater surface area for evaporation than a tall narrow one).

Looking for inexpensive ways to stir caramel

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thanks Dirke. I'm finding the same thing. I just came back from the Philadelphia Candy Show and was talking to Savage Brothers about the same issue. They don't see any other solution than buying a fairly expensive machine. if you don't mind me asking, what changes were you able to make that allowed the manual process to go faster? John

Looking for inexpensive ways to stir caramel

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I've tried to do the same but gave up, ended up wasting more then we were making. Having the right balance of heat and correct agitation was difficult to achieve. If you find a way I'd love to hear about it. We ended up altering our recipe to make it a little quicker and with less agitation.

Looking for inexpensive ways to stir caramel

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Hello All. We're starting to do a fair amount of caramel business and it's very time consuming stirring a batch of caramel for an hour or so. I'd love to have the $$$ to buy a Savage melter but that's not in the cards for right now. Has anyone tried to make / adapt their own stirring equipment, similar in concept to the professional models? I'm using a 5qt pot to make it now and would like to go up to a 20qt pot. Thanks for the help, John

updated by @John Duxbury: 04/11/25 09:27:36

Using coconut oil in truffles help

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Good to know, Thanks Sebastian. It turns out I had simply not mixed it enough, the result being grainy. I reheated and mixed it a lot and it turned out well. I've only just started using coconut products for shelf stability as customers want it. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Cheers

Using coconut oil in truffles help

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Remember not all coconut oil's created the same. A natural coconut oil will harden at room temperature; while a fractionated will remain liquid. You may be getting 'lumps' as a result of using a natural, unfractionated coconut oil that solidifies at room temperature. Note: the fractionation process simply separates the higher melting point 'fractions' of oils from their lower melting point fractions. It does not suggest that because the starting material is referred to as 'natural' that fractionated oils are 'artificial'.

Using coconut oil in truffles help

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

good point, I will try that. Thanks

Using coconut oil in truffles help

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

If you use coconut oil instead of cream, you will end up with a melt away, not a truffle. Still tastes good, but not a truffle.

Using coconut oil in truffles help

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I am attempting to create a shelf stable truffle by using coconut oil instead of heavy cream but am finding the resulting ganache is grainy. Does anyone else use a similar recipe for extending shelf life. I want a smooth ganache that I would getting using a heavy cream. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

updated by @Dirke Botsford: 04/11/25 09:27:36

Dehumidifier for Retail Space

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Hello helpful peeps!

I'm looking at dehumidification of a retail space of about 60sqm. We have loose chocolates and currently, humidity is at about 100% so we need to control that. What dehumidifiers would you suggest to bring it down to a constant 50%? We currently have a dehumidifier, not a commercial one, and that only brings the humidity down to 80%. We need something better. I would appreciate if you pointed me to specific dehumidifiers. Also, if there are some tricks to save on electricity bills whilst keeping temperature at 18 deg and humidity at 50%. We do not manufacture chocolate, we just have a retail space, with many chocolate bars and a praline bar.

Your help is much appreciated!

M.

updated by @jisimni_mark: 04/11/25 09:27:36

Someone known machines used to make plastic molds personal?

Posted in: Tasting Notes

I want to make my molds to create custom products

updated by @mariano garcia: 04/11/15 04:50:26