Forum Activity for @Clay

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

I was in London last week and picked up two bars of Paul A Young's whole bean chocolate.

I brought it back to NY and tasted one of the two bars (the 64%) with a number of friends and colleagues who are professional and semi-professional/trained chocolate tasters and the most flattering comment was,

"It's not as bad as I thought it was going to be."

Sorry, Paul.

First off, the texture is all wrong. And it's not different like the Sicilian chocolates that are crunchy or chocolate that is under-refined and gritty, it's just wrong. Chewy kind of.

The 64% is surprisingly very sweet, and this may be because the sugar can't be refined smaller than the shell fragments which means the sweetness is more present than it would be if it were refined and conched (properly) into the chocolate. A low roast may also be a part of the reason.

There is a very unpleasant aftertaste on the bar that kind of gets stuck in the back of the throat and lingers there, menacingly demanding that it be washed away by something stronger than water.

One of the reviews mentioned something about the taste of parmesan cheese, which might come partly from lactic acid. That said, if I want my chocolate to taste like parmesan I want it to taste like parmesan because someone added parmesan to the chocolate. David Briggs at Xocolatl de David in Portland, OR does this and it's quite nice, actually.

The Brits can have it as far as I am concerned, but it's a huge step backwards for the craft chocolate world in general and I hope that someone in the UK wakes up and recognizes that this emperor is not wearing any new clothes and tells Paul that while it may be a decent marketing stunt that's all it is.

It's not bloody brilliant and it's not more wholesome. It's stupid and a real potential health hazard if it's actually being made as described in the articles and reviews.

I am very glad that it's actually illegal to sell this in the US as chocolate because of the high shell content. It's a chocolate-like substance.

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

Tom -

The beans are roasted. They should be free of pathogens to 99.999%. As for the possibility of heavy metal and other contamination, I would imagine that there is a certificate of analysis on each origin at least once a year to let them know about other forms of contamination.

updated by @Clay Gordon: 09/10/15 09:07:54

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

Don't forget the Pralus choc coated cocoa beans, they have the shell on them. I was taken quite by surprise when i had some a few years ago, for the above stated reasons.

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

From the article in Confectionery News referenced above:

The cocoa shells need to then be washed to remove sand, off-flavor notes and undesired components such as mycotoxins or pesticides. The shell fractions may be washed by aqueous buffer solutions at a temperature between 15C and 100C for between one and 12 hours.

The washing step can be repeated up to five times and must be followed by a drying process like heat convection, head conduction, steam and vacuum or counter current heater air.

The shells then need to be alkalized, and this can be achieved by standard processes, Barry Callebaut said. After being cooled, the alkalized cocoa shell powder then needs to dry for 35-85 minutes before being ground, it added.

It's not a trivial process to make the shell safe to eat.

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

Barry-Callebaut has been working this from the industrial end, apparently processing the husk separately.

There are some nutritional benefits if you are looking for things such as fiber. Apparently the husk also has abundant catechins and polyphenols which supposedly have helth benefits

http://www.confectionerynews.com/Ingredients/Cocoa-shell-powder-has-numerous-uses-in-chocolate-and-foods-says-Barry-Callebaut

I suspect that if someone wants to use the husk 'properly' it will need to be done as a separate process line from the rest of the bean.

I wonder what the implications of heavy metal contamination in the husk are for things like 'brewing chocolate'?

-Jon

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

You're more likely to get noticeably sick from raw chocolate, due to survival of microbial contaminants. But, unless you're in a fragile state, a case of salmonellosis will pass in a day or two and you'll be back to normal. Hug the toilet; ride it out.

The risks associated with shell are much more serious, though less likely to immediately manifest. Lead and OTA stay in the body a long time and do real and lasting harm--to organs (especially the brain and kidneys) and cells. (Lead has a half-life of 20 days in the body. OTA has a half-life of 35 days, making it still detectible in plasma 280 days after exposure.) Take a look Dr. William Manton's survey of the current medical literature on toxicity of "Nonnutritive Constituents in Chocolate and Cocoa" (from last year's Chocolate in Health and Nutrition) before deciding if you really want to "take one for the team" in this way.

Scott

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

Hmm interesting.

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

I went by the Wardour Street store in SoHo yesterday and picked up samples of both the 64% and 73% whole bean chocolates - both made with Madagascan beans.

I have never faced the opening of a bar of chocolate with more trepidation than I feel with these two. Unusual texture, indeed.

I am flying back to NYC from London today and don't want to get sick, so I will get to these at some point this weekend. Maybe. I hope?

Oh - and 6.95 ($11.50) for a 50gr bar - that's $100/lb for those of us who keep track of such things.

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

Another rave review out of the UK for Young's "whole bean chocolate," referring to it as "bloody brilliant" and "a more wholesome way" of making chocolate.

And another one ("it sits in a whole different league!").

Scott

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

This discussion has me rolling. Thanks for the chuckles. Ah.. /phew..

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

"ADDED NUTRITION"?!?!?!?!?!

I guess he means dog, cat and chicken feces, human urine, vehicle exhaust, dust, salmonella, etc.?? For his customer's sake I sincerely hope he gets his cacao from a known source with elevated / isolated drying beds like mine, or someone's going to get really sick.

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

No.

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

The Paul Young site says,

Its the most exciting project for us at paul.a.young and itssomething we have been developing for some months. The cocoa bean is soprecious and special that I didnt want to waste any part of it. Im so proud ofwhat we have produced and I hope it will pave the way for others to try thisnew way of making bean-to-bar chocolate.

Will this become a trend?

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

Thanks for offering, Clay, but I'll pass. With a novice maker using a tabletop ECGC, boasting of only 7 hours of conching (in the non-conche CocoaTown), and taking a perverse pride in including shell, I feel pretty safe in assuming this product isn't for me.

Scott

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

Young euphemistically describes the texture as " characterful. " In photos, it's visibly gritty .

Scott

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

Natra tried to do this with a whole bean cocoa powder years ago.

Aweful, terrible idea for many of the reasons already listed. Also consider where the majority of mold resides on a bean, and thus where things like afla and ochra toxins subsequently reside...

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

Not even a little 8-)

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

Terrible idea for the following reasons:

1. Shells are much harder to refine than the nibs. Smooth chocolate made with as much as 20% shell will be VERY over refined.

2. Shells are incredibly bitter, and honestly don't contain a lot of flavour. (I know. I've tried to do a lot of things with them to avoid waste)

3. Shells contain a very significant amount of acetic acid. Making chocolate with the shell means conching a much longer time to oxidize the acetic acid.

4. Shells are the part of the plant that stores the heavy metals and other nasty elements (cocoa is often grown in volcanic soil full of heavy metals)

5. For strictly health reasons, it's a very bad idea.

6. I tried a few years back, and the chocolate was terrible - bitter and gritty.

If you're making chocolate WITH the shell, unzip the top of your head, insert a brain and think about this for a second: Large chocolate manufacturers make a profit of pennies on the pound for the chocolate they manufacture, and in spite of some making 100's of millions of lbs of chocolate per year,some STILL go bankrupt. (I was fortunate to buy a winnower from onebankruptcy auction just like that) They are always looking for ways to mitigate their costs. Do you actually think that in an effort to shave costs, they would WILLINGLY discard as much as 20% of their key ingredient if they didn't have to??? Remember, they are paying not only for the product, but also the shipping!

Having said all of that, not everyone can make good chocolate, and I'm glad. It helps my customers appreciate what I do even more.

Cheers.

Brad

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

I wonder if it taste good or will be smooth?

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

Yeah - but think of all the fiber!

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

This is such a bad idea from a health perspective. Worse than "raw" chocolate.

Still, I will be in London in about 10 days and will stop by and buy a bar or three.

Scott- Want one?

:: Clay

"Whole Bean Chocolate"

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

Paul Young is grabbing headlines in England this week with the launch of his "whole bean chocolate" (i.e., grinding all of the shell into the mass), which he sees as a notable innovation of chocolate making, rather than as a throwback to a time when lack of food safety regulations allowed the sale of such adulterated chocolate to customers unable to pay for anything better. More on it here (e.g., "No one's quite sure why the shells are removed; that's just how it's always been done"). And here (where Young is quoted as saying, "Everyone shells just because thats what theyve been told").

Adulterating chocolate with shell is, of course, far from new . And the legal, safety, and organoleptic reasons for removing shell are well and widely known.

Scott

updated by @Scott: 12/13/24 12:16:07

slab of ganache problems

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

The layer of chocolate on the sheet doesn't matter what the filling is but white chocolate is usually about 2 parts chocolate to 1 part liquid. Add a concentrated flavor if necessary.

slab of ganache problems

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thank you Melanie Boudar

I have another problem, I make fruit ganacheratio I try but result have problem, I use cream(8%) fruit puree(18%) white chocolate(28%) this ratio has enough fruit flavor but so soft, hard to put a thin layer of chocolate, and I try raise white chocolateratio easy to firm but not enough fruit flavor, how can I do? Thank you so much

slab of ganache problems

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

You need to put a thin layer of chocolate on the sheet first, then pour in the ganache. Makes it easy to handle and cut.

slab of ganache problems

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

hi there, I use baking paper oracetate sheetswhen I slabof ganache, but whenreleaseonce the ganache sets is stick on the baking paper, why and how to get slab ganache, thanks!

updated by @him: 04/11/25 09:27:36

Why can't I keep my temper?

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Probably not. I'm a novice at this. It was a guess on my part.

Why can't I keep my temper?

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I don't quite understand about the cocoa butter.Does it help to add somewhen using inclusions?

Why can't I keep my temper?

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

well all the chocolate and inclusions start out at room temp. it only goes into the refrigerated display case after the bark in its entirety has set, because . we do open the doors of the refrigerated case to get truffles out for customers, but it does not explain why only my bark would have condensation and the rest of the truffles are fine. but good to know i don't need to add extra cocoa butter:)

Why can't I keep my temper?

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

ok, so we can probably rule out 1&2 (assuming you've got accurate calibrations and 'room temperature' is < 85F).

3 - wet - yes, similar to sweating. often times when you bring something (even chocolate) out of a fridge, the temperature difference between the refrigerated item and the environment is enough to trigger hitting a dew point, resulting in condensation on the item. When that happenson chocolate, the moisture dissolves a little bit of sugar, an when it evaporates, the sugar is redeposited behind, looking like bloom. it is, in fact, bloom, but it's different than fat bloom, and is called sugar bloom.

i would be very surprised if what you were seeing was the result of not adding additional cocoa butter.

Why can't I keep my temper?

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

1. Positive about the accurate thermometer. I calibrate it often, as I use it to teach co-workers how to calibrate a thermometer.

2. The inclusions (I like this word) are always room temperature. I put in inclusions that sometimes are already covered in chocolate into my bark, so I couldn't get them warm prior to putting them in.

3. not sure what you mean about it getting 'wet'? Do you mean is the chocolate sweating? Generally, it is not but I have seen some of the inclusions (such as chocolate covered almonds) sweat after being in our refrigerated case for a week or two. What is sugar bloom? Is that different from regular bloom? I thought bloom occurred because of the fat in chocolate rising to the surface.

4. the bark, once made, usually sits at room temperature. It is in a massive grocery store, so it is not in a room, just the open air of the bakery department (area), behind the counter. There is no sunlight touching it, but it does get stored and displayed in a refridgerated case held at 60F. There are lights in the case, but we display lots of chocolate truffles in there are well and they never bloom.

I'm thinking the bloom I am experiencing may be a result of me not adding cocoa butter to the chocolate, me adding the inclusions when the chocolate is at 90, and then the chocolate gets too cold from all the inclusions I put in, and once I spread it on the baking sheet it may just get too cold too fast, or the refridgeration in the case is somehow causing it. I'm a complete newbie in tempering chocolate, so these are all guesses. I just don't see why the chocolate I make is blooming but the chocolate that we get from vendors that is exposed to the same conditions does not bloom. What do you all think?

Why can't I keep my temper?

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

1) are you sure you have an accurate thermometer?

2) the temperature of your inclusions should be about the same temperature as your tempered chocolate when you add them

3) does your chocolate get 'wet' after you take it out from the fridge? if so, you've go sugar bloom, and i'd simply not put it in the fridge.

4) what's the temperature of the room you're storing it in? does it ever get direct sunlight?

Why can't I keep my temper?

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Hello! I use chocolate at work to make chocolate bark. I believe it is from 72% belgian chocolate callets. I use the double boiler method, get the temp of the chocolate up to 118F, remove from heat, seed, stir, once temp is at 90F, I add the other ingredients to the bowl of chocolate I want in the bark such as crushed nuts, pretzels, what have you. Then I pour the chocolate on a parchment lined baking sheet, top with more crushed nuts or various room temperature dry toppings, and let it set. Once it is set, I break it into pieces, most around the size of my palm, and we store it in a refridgerated case set at 60F. Usually, within 1-2 weeks, there is bloom. It is not as bad as it was before we tempered at all, but it is still so annoying! Anyone see where I am going wrong?

updated by @Tobias: 04/11/25 09:27:36

Rev V - How to Manually Adjust Temperature Settings?

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Hello Katie:

This is Ian from ChocoVision. Can I call or email you to discuss your specific situation? You can email me your information to ian@chocovision.com and I will reply.

Thank you
Ian

Rev V - How to Manually Adjust Temperature Settings?

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Apologise if this has come up elsewhere - I recently purchased a Rev V tempering machine, we are just starting out bean to bar and have been experimenting this weekend with tempering. The first batch was milk chocolate, we added the chocolate straight from the grinder (no seed), stuck it in temper mode 2 and left it do it's thing. The bars came out streaked and speckled with grey. So we tried again, this time manually reducing the temp to its lowest setting (around 26 degrees Celsius) and still in temper mode 2. With this second batch we noticed the machine stated 'ready' at only 28 degrees and the chocolate was very thick, we tried to manually adjust the temp up a fraction to reduce viscosity but it would not allow us to. Anyhow the we put the second batch into moulds and the chocolate came out much better, less streaked etc but still not perfect. We wanted to try a third time however as we should be able to manually adjust the temp upwards and I wanted to figure out why we couldn't, again the same thing happened on the third attempt - we reduced the temp down and set it in temper mode 2, it said 'ready' at 28 degrees c and we couldn't increase the temp anymore. I have sent a query to chocvision but wondered if anyone had any similar experiences? Any advice?
updated by @Katie Partington: 04/11/25 09:27:36

Opinions on recent genome news?

Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

Seems Mars and friends have mapped the chocolate genome. Of course scare-monger sites are screaming chocolate will be all GMO by the year 20xx, and other more staid sites are saying it's nothing we haven't been doingie selection and breedingjust with more knowledge about what to select for.

Anyone know more? Care to comment? I'd love to hear opinions! Thanks,

Lee

updated by @Lee2: 12/13/24 12:16:07

Peanut Butter Cups

Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Hi Clay,

Are there one-shot machines available that are less than $100,000? I was considering buying one but after doing some research could not find one less than 100K (which is way too pricey at this point).

Peanut Butter Cups

Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

I have an easy way to make these. Use a round magnetic mold or cup mold. Mold the shell. You can use a transfer sheet to jazz it up.For the filling I use 100 gr melted cocoa butter, 170 gr powdered sugar, 650 gr peanut butter and salt to taste. Blend well, pipe in molds. Bottom next day. Recipe good for 7 magnetic molds of 15 pcs= 105 per batch.Some people use peanut flour to replace some of the powdered sugar.I easily make and sell about 200 per week.

Peanut Butter Cups

Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

It will be pretty small scale probably 200/week to start off. The peanut butter will be rather thick. Thank you Clay!

Peanut Butter Cups

Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

CW -What kinds of production volume are you looking to do?FYI, generically, you can do these with what's called a "one shot" machine. Which one-shot machine is right for you depends on a number of factors - volume is one, the viscosity of the filling could be another, putting candy cups in the molds before filling might be the most challenging.

Peanut Butter Cups

Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Hello community. Can someone point me in the direction of a machine that can make peanut butter cups? Thanks!

updated by @Chocolate Woman: 04/07/25 13:00:14

Cleaning Crankenstein Mill

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Ok thanks for that, I did ask the EHO why he wanted it disinfected and got the impression he wasn't sure, will do some more research so that I can give him a better answer next time which will hopefully convince him it's ok.