I was wondering if anyone had successfully used one of these for ganache or pate de fruits. Three models that I've seen are around $200, $400 and $850 with the more expensive ones being able to cut thicker items.
Thanks for the helpful info!
If you leave it in overnight mode, make sure the machine is nearly full, that way it wont need to cycle as much and you wont have to worry about the chocolate beginning to set.
I've used this a couple times and in general it works great to come in to melted chocolate. Chocovision actually recommended that I use this as I was having efficiency issues with my tempering machines.
does anyone who uses the rev delta 3210 ever use the overnight mode. l read once about it causing motor burnout, and ever since i have been hesitant to use it. but it would be great to have the chocolate melted first thing in the morning. would love to hear others' experiences.
thanks!
If you're hand-dipping square truffles, you'll ideally want to use what's called a 'bottoming mix.' Basically, take 50/50 Cocoa Liquor and Cocoa Butter, mix and melt to about 32-34C, stir and cool to about 29/30C, and apply to the top or bottom of your truffles.
Most often, the easiest way to do this is by taking a pastry brush and brushing the bottom of a piece of parchment, putting your ganache frame on top and finally filling it with your ganache before it is fully set. 
The other way to do it would be once your truffles are cut, to place them evenly apart on a tray and spray that bottoming mix through a compressed air system. Of course, if you are doing very low volume, other methods may make more sense (but these are the most time-efficient).
I actually do both. but i love using transfer sheets and so i started enrobing truffles.
Yes, thanks Larry. i will try it!
I was just thinking about the angles I mentioned above. I think I got them backwards. - Instead of going from 45 to 35 degrees, I'm moving the tip of the fork away from the chocolate which should increase the angle. So the chocolate would stay at 45 degrees but the fork would move to a higher degree with the tip slightly pulling off the base of the chocolate, say 55 degrees.
Does that make sense?
Mary,
From your picture, it looks like your truffles are square. This will make it much easier (and quicker) to precoat them. There are two ways you could pre-bottom your truffles.
1. spread your chocolate out before putting your ganache frames down and pouring your ganache. thus once your ganache sets, and you cut it, you'll already have a very smooth bottom.
2. pour your ganache into your frame & when you are about ready to dip, coat the top of the ganache, let the chocolate set a bit, & then flip it over & cut it. I prefer this method because you can cut the chocolate before it fully sets. This helps prevent the chocolate from cracking when you cut it.
Our centers are very softso pre-coating the bottom prevents the center from sinking into the dipping fork and thus sliding off much easier.
To get the truffle off the fork, i like to keep the fork warm in the chocolate (this prevents the chocolate from setting to the cold tines of the fork). Also, I like to dip with tip of the fork thus the truffle only needs to slide a short distance.
Also, once the truffle is sliding off the tip, I'll set the front end on the paper & push my fork down to break the tension and slide it out more easily. This sounds peculiar - If the truffle and fork are at a 45 degree angle, i'll set the tip of the truffle on the paper & push the tip of the fork to say 35 degrees and thus the fork pulls away from the truffle and it is easier to slide the fork out.
Then, we'll slide the fork out a bit & push the center back onto the foot. This helps minimize any feet.
Then lay the fork flat& pull it out.
I hope this helps.
I recently started hand-dipping my truffles instead of shell molding so i am still working out my techniques. I read somewhere that it's good to coat the bottom of the truffle with a "crumb coat" of chocolate before you dip to make it easier to slide off the dipping fork. i have tried this, and it's a time-consuming process. does any one know if this is really necessary? any tips on getting the dipped truffle off the fork smoothly and quickly (besides lots of practice - which i am certainly getting this season!)
thanks
Hello Chocolate lovers,
I'm a new member here and very excited to get to know you guys . I am actually a business student of UC Berkeley Extension who of course loves chocolate. However, being a good world citizen, I am alway aware of unfair trade products, especially products I frequently consume like chocolate.
As you guys might already know about child labor and human trafficking problems in cocoa industry in Ghana and other West African Region, I'd like to ask you for opinions about fair trade chocolate products. Are you usually aware of that? and Do you normally check the label before buying?
Here's a new product line of Hershey's chocolate barthat supports the idea of ending child labor in this industry. Please go to our Facebook page and share your valuable ideas and opinions with us! Let make the world a better place together and make our favorite chocolate bar more valuable as well
https://www.facebook.com/fairtradechocolatebar
Pim
ppimwipa@yahoo.com
If it's really that serious of a health issue, it sounds like a gamble to me to attempt to consume it. I can't stress enough that there is no current safe method of producing raw cocoa consistently that has safe microbiological levels.
I'm not versed enough in the formation pathways of biogenic amines in the various process steps of cocoa, nor in their subsequent pathways upon ingestion to know if the above is a known element or an educated guess. I've never heard of it, which leads me to believe it's fantastically rare, which leads me to believe it's not well studied.
As sorry to say this as i am, i'd steer clear of it. Your either playing russian roulette with your disease, or salmonella. At minimum i'd keep a course ofquinolone or floroquinolones nearby.
Thank you Sebastian. I think I'm narrowing down the reasons why chocoloate is an issue for people with histaminosis.
1. Biogenic amine formation during thermogenic changes, mostly during drying, roasting and grinding.
2. Milk powder in milk chocolated; biogenic amine formation during the production of milk powder
3. Cocoa is potentially a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAO Inhibitor); thus effecting neurotransmitter levels which ain't a good thing for some histaminosis sufferers as biogenic amines already tend to mess with neurotransmitters.
4. Cocoa seems to be a histamine liberator (causing mast cells to release histamine)for some unknown reason (to me)
So the best I can do is use raw cocoa which have the least amount of biogenic amines butwith a possible high microbiological count. And to avoid milk chocolate. Any other suggestions?
There are a few important steps that could impact the formation of biogenic amines. Most of them do not form during fermentation, i'm afraid.
The first is fermentation - fermentation can take up to 7 days, and can be done a variety of ways. One of the things that occurs during fermentation is the consumption of raw materials (i.e. sugars are consumed), which results in the increase of non-consumed components. This leads to a higher fat content, which is important for future processing. Unfermented cocoa beans, on their own, will have a fat content that is too low to enable the cocoa bent to be fluid once it's ground. Those processing it won't be able to pump it. Most free amino acids are in the pulp at this stage, which drains away. Pyrazines begin to form at this stage. Temperatures can get fairly high here (150F +) - since there is no definition of 'raw' - it becomes difficult to say if fermented beans are raw or not - however the general consensus in the raw community is that if temperatures exceed 118F, it's not raw. Since it's quite common for the ambient environmental temperatures where cocoa is grown to exceed 118F, never mind the temperatures during fermentation, most of the raw community wouldn't consider cocoa to be raw.
Next is drying - if you don't dry the beans, they'll have very high moistures and rot, or if low enough prevent rotting, they can still be high enough to give viscosity issues during further processing. Temperatures can be very high here, but most use the power of the sun. A complex cascade of internal chemical reactions is occurring here.
Next is roasting - very high temperatures. Here is where most of your amino changes are occurring, with lots of strecker degradation reactions occurring as a result of the thermogenic induction. This is also your primary micro kill step. It's reducing your moisture down to ~1% level so you can process it (again, it will be too viscous if you don't), and since raw cocoa beans have extraordinarily high microbiological counts (this is the reason they're not safe to consume pre-roasting), this is the step - and the only step - where those counts will be reduced to safe levels. Since flavor precursors are forming during fermentation (hence the pyrazine comment above), roasting of unfermented beans doesn't result in a flavor improvement.
For cocoa powder production - what happens next is the beans are ground up (turned into liquor) - where they become flowable. The grinding process itself generates heat (i'm unaware of any work that has been done to examine the changes in peptide profiles at this step), and then it goes to a very, very high pressure hydraulic press. Since this press requires the liquor to be flowable and fluid, if the beans were not fermented, the processor would not be able to do this. A very small amount of cocoa powder has it's butter extracted via supercritical fluid extraction, but that still requires the liquor to be fluid enough to pump it.
The net/net is - any commercial cocoa powder you purchase is highly likely to be fermented and roasted. Most biogenic amine formation is driven by thermogenic - not enzymatic - changes, and free amino acids (including tryptophan), are present in un-fermented cocoa to begin with. If you don't ferment the beans, the beans will be unprocessable from a viscosity standpoint; if you don't roast the beans, they will be unsafe to consume from a microbiological standpoint.
This may be a stupid/newbie question, but how do I know if my raw cacao powder has been fermented or not?
Without repeating myself too much, in the introduce yourself section you can read that I get ill from chocolate. People with histaminosis get ill from most fermented foods/ingredients. This is because during fermentation enzymes break down some of the protein into various amines which we can't tolerate. Amines are not destroyed by heat.
So I believe the light came on, on why I get ill from chocolate, to do with the fermentation. Do I understand correctly that most commercial chocolate are made from fermented beans? Because if fermentation is indeed my issue and if 'my people' do tolerate raw better due to no fermentation, then my answer is in using unfermented beans/cacao but yet roast it to kill the bugs (and obviously increase the flavor)?
If I can just figure out on whether it is indeed the case that my raw cacao is also unfermented? Please help with that.
And how do youroast cacao powder? Sorry for all the questions...
Please help me. How can i seal my chocolate to protect it for spoilage.
Thank you!
Clay,
Please forgive my poor choice of words. In referring to a 'larger machine' I simply mean an enrobing capable machine. i.e. a hilliards 80 or 240, a choco TT, an Air 2.0... We are currently using some revolation 3210s & a Hilliard Little Dipper to dip by hand. - There are a lot of 'larger machines' out there.
In setting my goal at 20 belt feet per hour, I'm thinking along the lines of run 16 inches, stop - cut paper, run 16 inches, stop cut paper... So while the belt may be moving at 1.5 Feet per Minute, is isn't running continuously.
I'll do more homework on blowers. From my preliminary reviews, it is interesting that a blower isn't listed as an option on the Perfect Enro 6, any of the Hilliard machines, or the Bakon Mini Enrober. If they are listening, perhaps adding that option would be a bright ideal. 
I'll hunt for the posts about DIYing a blower.
Thank you,
Larry
Larry -
The issue is NOT NECESSARILY a larger tempering machine. If you put 500 pieces/hr through the enrober at (given the size) 5gr of chocolate per piece, you only need 2.5kg chocolate/hr. A 30kg working bowl capacity wheel machine (batch) should keep you going for 10 hours easily. A 7kg working bowl continuous temperer will keep you going for as long as you want to work if you keep the working bowl topped up as you go. You cannot begin to use the capacity of a 25kg working bowl continuous tempering machine with a 6 or 7" belt.
20 belt feet/hr is 1/3 foot per minute. Slowest most machines run is about 1.5 feet/minute. You have a lot of headroom here to grow production. If your work is organized well you can think about 2000-2500 pieces in 4-6 hours without pushing things.
Make sure that whatever belt you get has a blower to remove excess chocolate or be prepared to make one DIY.
Thank you Clay! I haven't used an enrober yet, but I've done a fair amount of research & dreaming. - Not to mention stalking the classifieds.
I really appreciate your insight about how many chocolates we'll be able to get per foot of belt. Getting an extra row on the belt really changes the math of how much we can do.
I'm not ready to jump ona purchase yet. - Perhaps by saving up through Christmas we'll be able to make something happen.
I'll also keep watching the classifieds. - Larger tempering machines come up on a regular basis, but I've had questions about getting a larger temperer and getting the belt later.- Thus the mix & match question.
Boy! If I could push 20 belt feet/hr (with two people) that turns into an awful lot of chocolate per hour. It would be so much easier get control of our man-hours.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
Larry
Larry:
You've got a pretty good handle on how to figure production, which is more dependent on the width of the belt than it is on the capacity of the working bowl.
If your pieces are 7/8" square, with practice you'd be able to get 4 pieces on a 6" belt and 5 pieces on a 7" belt. At the same spacing you'd be able to get 8 rows/foot with practice.
That's between 30-40 pieces per foot with a belt running at between 1.5- 3 feet per minute.
Now you are right that taking the product off the belt will slow things down, but that's also a factor of what kinds of decorating you're doing and how many people are working the belt.
300 pieces/hr is not a lot of production for an enrober.
A new Selmi R200 belt, all by itself, is more than your entire budget (list is 6900/$9400).
A new Hilliard's Six Inch Coater cost about US$18,000 last time I priced them (2011).
FBM offers a 7kg bowl capacity machine with a 7" enrober belt for about 11,000 (less 10% for ChocolateLife members) new.
A new machine that might be in your price range is a Bakon wheel tempering machine with mini-enrober. Last time I looked it was squarely in your price range and I have been able to offer discounts to ChocolateLife members in the past, I would have to contact Bakon to see what current pricing is and if there is still a discount program I can offer. In looking at the video I notice there is no air blower but there is a de-tailer. I would call a blower a requirement, so I would ask them about that. If you want to DIY a blower, it'll be easier than trying to hook up a Choco-TT to a Selmi R200 belt.
Currently chocolate is the equivalent of a hobby. We have been dipping at night after the kids go to sleep. So while we aren't moving a lot of chocolate right now, that is partly due to the fear of over-committing and not being able to produce enough chocolates.
I am looking for a machine that I can run once a week & produce plenty of chocolates to sell.
I think I'm lookingfor a machine to do 300 +pcs / hr.
My number crunching suggests that I could put 3 chocolates across on a 6" belt. I think we could put 5 rows per foot of belt. That would mean we need to do 15 belt feet/hr. it should be doable. I doubt I'll have a cooling tunnel to start so I'm not sure what to figure on belt speed. With not having a cooling tunnel I think we'll need to use the paper and cut it every so often & transfer the chocolates. That will slow us down a lot but hey it works.
I'm looking to spend around 7-9K so I recognize the need to shop around.
I truly appreciate your insight and wisdom.
Larry
Larry:
Like many things, it can probably be done - but it's probably not as straightforward as you think it's going to be.
One thing that I would like to know is ... what's your production throughput requirement? Pieces per hour? Kilos of chocolate per hour. There may be off-the-shelf integrated solutions that are in your price range.
:: Clay
I have a somewhat random question.
We are on a tight budget, and I keep hunting for a deal of an enrober. It hasn't come up yet, but it occurred to me that I may not need to match the enrobing belt to the tempering machine.
- yes a matched set would be best, but would it be possible to get a selmi enrobing belt (everyone seems to love Selmi) and retrofit it to a JKV, Perfect, or other machine? I recognize this would require some machining as the Selmi equipment is set up to attach to their hose, but I'm confident I can handle that. I think it would just require adding a funnel adapter to the hose connector. - The funnel (with an overflow slit) could make the transition from open pour to the narrow hole.
I wonder if this would allow me to get a Selmi belt, and a cheaper tempering machine with the goal of moving to a Selmi tempering machine in a few years.
Has anyone else experimented like this? Was it successful or foolish? My hypothesis is that an unmatched set would allow for more effective bargain hunting. Or at least moving in smaller steps towards a great setup.
Thanks,
Larry
Doing two minutes' research on the internet is always problematic because you don't know what sources are reliable.
Bongaan's interest in making chocolate is not a commercial venture, it's because he has a particular disease called histaminosis and wants to make chocolate so it's safe for him to eat. Histaminosis is a spectrum disorder ranging from mild to lethal in terms of responses. Histamines are related to allergies so it may be that bongaan is allergic to something in commercial chocolate. Through experimentation he has found that "raw" chocolate does not trigger his histaminosis.
The original set of responses was driven, in part, because we did not know the nature of bongaan's illness. Now that we have some clues, we can provide more relevant answers.
It occurs to me that what may be happening is that the process of roasting cocoa beans generates a chemical that is not present in un-roasted beans that triggers histaminosis in some people . The article linked to above suggests that a reaction to chocolate that is similar to red wine headaches.
The challenge facing bongaan, then, is to make chocolate from un-roasted beans and to make sure that the chocolate is safe from other forms of potentially harmful bacterial contamination, which is the concern that Sebastian raises .
Chocolate Alchemy is a great resource for making chocolate on a small scale for not that much money. Many members of TheChocolateLife have started out using Chocolate Alchemy as a resource. However, it don't think the discussions adequately address the potential risks of using those same processes to make chocolate with un-roasted beans.
The investment in making chocolate from the bean can be under US$1000 if a conventional oven is used and supporting equipment (like the winnower) is very much DIY. Even though buying organic raw paste and liquor may be expensive, the question is how long is it going to take to recoup the investment in equipment and make that approach worthwhile? Cost is very much a factor for bongaan and the Rand is near a four-year low against the US$ making things almost 50% more expensive than they were just two years ago.
If he's simultaneously stating that its raw and has a low microbe count, i'd be very, very suspicious. Organic has nothing to do with micro food safety. HE may believe they're low in micro count, but my very strong suspicion is that he's a marketing guy trying to sell his beans, and has absolutely no proof the beans have a 'virtually nonexistent' microbe count.
Regarding the issuethat raw is potentially dangerous, the guys I bought it from states this:
Raw, Organic: This is a 100% raw product that is certified organic by BCS Oko Garantie.
Low Microbe Count: Because of the exceptional quality and standards under which these beans are processed, any foreign microbe/bacteria activity is virtually nonexistent on the skin and inner nib.Due to the high level of quality control our cacao beans may eaten without peeling.
Now do I call it BS or isn't it also a fact that the danger of raw is because of how they handle the beans and surely if done properly it could be safe?
You guys can always be so kind as to jump to my new post and rather help me out there?
Thank you Sebastian, apology accepted and you are forgiven.
You see the problem I face is while chocolate making are a passion for most of you here, I just wish to eat chocolate once in a while, and to be quite frank, I actually just want to buy it in the store. But due to the fact that I become ill of chocolate and many other foods, chocolate making came to mind. So now I have to way up all the effort of making it against missing out on it. Between, work, family and trying to manage my illness (I have severe histaminosis, which almost killed me several times and where close to becoming disabled) I now need to see if I can just get the basics down of chocolate making and whether it will grow on me or not. Making it from the bean is something I don't think I'll ever do, currently the effort doesn't match my perception of the reward. So I willbe looking into making chocolate with cacao powder or paste. Maybe I should try and buy the really expensive chocolates in the store and see whether they make me ill or not as I had to fork out quite a bit for cacao butter and raw cacao, so I'm definitely not saving any money, and just add effort in trying to do it myself. All and all, that is why I tried to short way first and hoped some of you would direct me to the basics.
And as for raw cacao, please just know I'm not one of those people who are infactuated with eating everything raw. The logic behind me buying raw cacao wasthat many others with my illness tolerate raw cacao better and I decided to try it. It was eating no chocolae vs possibly being able to tolerate some. Unfortunately didn't know about the possible contamination.
Thank you for your input.
time tested and approved 8-)
but there may be a way to process it, keep the temps below 120F, AND obtain a 5 log kill. nevermind that it'll still taste like .. well, not great... so i still don't understand the infatuation with raw cocoa, but it may be a way to at least let people consume bad tasting chocolate w/o going into renal failure 8-)
FYI for the rest of you - i MAY have come up with a way to safely use raw cocoa. i'll need to think through it a bit more, but as with any puzzle, there's a solution, it just needs to be found. I may have found a solution. If it works, it'll require equipment that you probably don't have however 8-)
I certainly meant no disrespect - my apologies if you took it as such. I think you will find this community is very much a two way street, you get back what you put into it. I did not answer your question directly because the answer already is here. I did provide an answer that you likely didn't know yet to ask, and will save you a trip to a hospital at some point if you heed it.
There are no easy answers mate, no short cuts, no one liners. The info you seek, by and large, is already here. There are individuals who have been making chocolate at a very high level for 25+ years here who share their knowledge openly and freely, and for as much knowledge and experience as they have, they don't know everything there is to know. It has taken us decades to learn it; it's unreasonable to expect that an individual can do so without committing time, money, and resources to it - all of which you'd suggested a hesitancy to do. We do so without an expectation of thanks, but because we love the topic, enjoy teaching, and want to see people learn in a safe manner.
It would be difficult for me to show up at polymer engineering board and ask 'someone post a link to teach me to be a polymer scientist' and expect quick results. I think it's fair to say that as smart as you are, you will not learn what you seek overnight from someone posting a 'link or two'. The best advice i can give you is to read what's here already, and then ask for clarification should there be things you don't understand.
Thank you for recommending Chocolate Alchemy's site. Their first FAQ is all I was asking for in my post here...and just look at where it turned!
Q: How do I make chocolate?
A: Well, that is THE question isnt it? From the main page, on the right hand side, the is a list of steps; Cocoa beans, Roasting Just follow those links in order and it will walk you through the process from Raw Cocoa Beans to Finished Chocolate
All of you who is giving me the mouthful on the negatives of raw cacao. First of all, at least be glad for me that I'm at last able to enjoy some chocolate without getting ill!If it's a time bomb ticking, well Sebastian made sure that he gave me that info with the least people skills and tact that I have seen in a while, so let's leave Sebastian and the raw cacao issue. I would dearly like to learn how to makechocolate, something you all had to do some stage of your life. If anyone has a link or two or a post or two to recommend, then please do so it will be much appreciated. Everyone already spend considerable time talking about whether it is possible for me to get ill or not and whether I should thank Sebastian or not, BUT PLEASE, rather help me to make chocolate!
Thank you for pointing out that there is no such thing as a Chocolate 101 section here.
I don't know if I will be able to tolerate normal commercial cocoa paste, I will have to experiment and see. First need to source it and that will take somesearching. All I know is that people with the similar illness than what I have don't seem to tolerate normal store bought cocoa powder, so I don't know if high quality cocoa paste will be better tolerated.
Please tell Sebastian to work on his tact and people skills then he will be a very highly respected member in everyones eyes.
Bongaan:
You are a newbie on this site. Sebastian is a very highly-respected member of the site who has contributed to many discussions and always has something insightful - and relevant - to say.
As a newcomer, it makes sense for you to do some research about the site. If you had, you might have found the answers you were looking for. Over the course of the last nearly six years now there have been extensive discussions on raw chocolate.
There is no Chocolate 101 section on TheChocolateLife. I thought about it for a long time and in the end it turned out that I'd need to have several different "101" sections - one for confectionery, one for chocolate making, one for "raw" chocolate, and maybe several more.
I would also take Sebastian's advice about "raw" chocolate to heart. It is highly unlikely that you are allergic to cacao ... which is why you can make your own chocolate using "raw" paste/powder and butter. It is highly likely that you are sensitive to some other ingredient in the commercial chocolate. You probably don't need to go raw, you could get commercial cocoa paste (chocolate liquor) and cocoa butter - organic, and do exactly the same thing.
:: Clay
Thank you Larry, but the course is way too expensive for someone like me. I will try the search function. Thanks
