Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
I've now found in a book the Catongo and another exception, the Djati Roenggo, a white seeded Trinitario from Indonesia.
Forum Activity for @Brady
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
Alan- Thanks for the follow up. A quick internet search identified it as a white seeded cacao of high cacao butter content.Clay- Interesting news about Bonnat. Those 3 bars will set me back a cool $51 plus shipping, but I'm looking forward to it. BTW- Sorry you missed our porcelana tasting, it went quite well.
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
I notice that there were several TheChocolateLife members at The Fancy Food Show - and I also noticed that you all appear to have missed a Porcelana announcement.On Tuesday I was collared by the exclusive importer of Bonnat into the US, Francoise Bureau-Crook of Crossings French Foods in Boston (the also import Castelain among other brands). Francoise shared with me that starting later this summer, Bonnat will be producing three Porcelana bars. In addition to the one they are producing now they will be adding a Mexican-origin bar and I forget the origin of the third. I will follow up and let you know.On another note, the success of the plantation in Tabasco state Mexico that is the source for most of the Mexican Porcelana has encouraged many other farmers in the region to start growing it. The quality has been highly variable due to a lack of consistency in fermentation, so my hope is that the increasing interest in the bean will mean more direct assistance by companies to address those issues. Finally, for those who make it to Spain, Cacao Sampaka produces a bar from those Mexican Porcelana beans. Cacao Sampaka is not imported into the US, but I've tried a fair selection of bars brought back by friends and their work is usually very good. The Mexican Porcelana was very fruity and astringent and not really at all pleasant. Again, this hearkens back to the quality of post-harvest processing practices I mentioned earlier.
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
Hi Brady,That Forastero type with white cotyledons is apparently the Brazilian catongo.Best,Alan
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
Hi Brady,I saw Art quite a bit, but never made it to his booth unfortunately.As for the Porcelana, Presilla notes on p 90 that pure white beans in Porcleana give away the Criollo ancestry, but this does not mean that all pure white beans are Porcelana, as there are other Criollo populations as well.Porcelana cacao is simply one population of Criollo cacao. True Criollo, which is so rare that some experts don't believe it even really exists anymore, has pure white seeds, but doesn't all look externally like Porcelana does. Interestingly, there is at least one rare Forastero population that has pure white seeds. If I recall correctly, Bartley talks about this in his "Genetic Diversity of Cacao and its Utilization" though, unfortunately, I don't have the time to try and track down the citation.You are right that pod shape, size, and color are not the best indicators of what you will find inside, but they are not 100% unreliable either. When it comes to Porcelana, it is the external appearance that distinguishes it from other Criollo--term used loosely--populations.Best,Alan
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
Olorin- I probably shouldn't have used the word 'meat' to describe the inside of the bean, but that is what I was referring to. As Alan clarified, cacao pulp (or mucilage) surrounds the beans and is a thick moist substance that you first see when a pod is cut open. Each bean(or seed) has a thin shell. I was using 'meat' to refer to the bean without the shell. Alan's picture of the porcelana pod is great. It's actually better than the picture he refers to in Presilla's book. Although if you are not familiar with her book you should look for it. It does have alot of great pod, tree and bean photos. Alan's photo is of a white pod, but pod color isn't always white with porcelana and isn't the best indicator of what type of bean is in any pod. Overall, I thought pod color, size and shape were poor indicators of what type of cacao bean it holds. On the other hand, I thought physical characteristics of the bean were a reliable way to determine cacao type.Alan, what other beans are you aware of with a white color that isn't criollo? Even M. Presilla alluded to the proof of a good porcelana was the pure white color (paraphrased from pg 90). Also, did you happen to see the photo I was referring to at Amano's booth?
updated by @Brady: 09/07/15 12:32:51
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
Hans,All of the Porcelana fruit that I saw at the estacion had this nipple, but so have other fruit I have seen that are not Porcelana, including fruit from trees referred to as non-porcelana Criollo and Trinitario.
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
It has an interesting nipple-like protrusion. I can't remember correctly, but isn't that a trait of Porcelana?
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
The pulp around the seeds is white. The seeds, when cut, are anywhere from pure white, to pink, to light purple, to deep purple.Not all pure white beans are Criollo, let alone Porcelana. Porcelana cacao has a certain fruit shape and color. See page 86 of Presilla's "New Taste of Chocolate" for an example.Here is a photo I took at the Estacion Experimental Chama in December 2006 when I was there. The trees really are beautiful: http://www.patric-chocolate.com/blog/images/porcelana.jpg You can see that the fruit looks quite different from the average cacao fruit, Criollo or otherwise.
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
QUOTE: "The meat of the bean was purely white, clearly resembling porcelana in appearance. "What other colors are there for the pulp/ meat/ inside of a cacao pod?
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
I spoke with a NYC based Regional Sales Manager from Valrhona today at the Fancy Food Show in NY. He confirmed for me that the Palmira is indeed Porcelana. He also said it is the same as the Porcelana de Pedegral bar that Valrhona sells in Europe. If I understood him correctly, it was a marketing decision not to pacakage the bar with Porcelana indicated on the box because the large majority of consumers would not be familar with the term.Furthermore, I discussed porcelana with a few other people at the show. The Mexican version of porcelana, that Pierre Marcolini and now Coppeneur have made bars with, is not considered a true porcelana. Regardless, Art Pollard of Amano, had a slide show presentation of photograghs at his booth. One of which was a porcelana bean from the estate in Mexico (located in Tobasco) that grows them. The meat of the bean was purely white, clearly resembling porcelana in appearance. It was a beautiful picture. Apparently there is only one small estate in Mexico with this bean, currently owned by a lady in her 70's, who inherited the land from her father.
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
I was lucky enough to study with two CIRAD members, both the head (at the time) of the Tree Crops Program, during the University of Chocolate trips in 2003 and 2005. They are a great resource and they are on top of most of the breaking research. They don't necessarily have answers but they can say what the current consensus is.
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
Thanks for the words of encouragement! It's wonderful to know firsthand that my articles are very helpful
I replied to your comment on my blog, Olorin, but to avoid going allllllll the way back there, I basically said that I found out about the Palmira-Porcelana connection through an insider source AND on a website I saw in the same week (strange coincidence, huh?). I think the author on that website said that he was told directly by Valrhona, though I could be wrong so don't quote me. I don't like to say things with certainty unless I'm positive and even then I tend to tread carefully and speak in conjecture because of the countless variables involved That Bonnat Porcelana somehow escaped by bad-choco radar but it'll get in that Dishonorable Mention article. Thanks for pointing that out, btw...I would've missed it again! You know what's interesting? Alex told me that more than once he received Bonnat bars with the wrong wrappers, so there might be a good chance I received a bar that is not Porcelana, although the intrinsic flavors we tasted are similar so I don't know. Maybe different batches?Just wondering, but does anyone remember about three years ago or so that Domori's Porcelana was really, really, really awful? I bought two bars from Chocosphere and was expecting the same excellent quality as before, but the chocolate was bitter and tart, tasting like Granny Smith apples and potting soil. Jerry confirmed and noted the same traits in other random bars in his stock, and there's actually a thread on Seventypercent about this. I just wanted to bring this quality issue into the light again, basically reinforcing the idea that just because the name is Porcelana doesn't always mean the chocolate will be good, or more importantly, consistent with what we know about it already. There's just way too many forces at work for us to get a confident grip on what it's all about.
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
I just checked the review of Bonnat Porcelana on seventypercent.com .Wow! The two reviews posted on the same day by Hans-Peter and Alex Rast were so different! Did they even eat the same bar? Hans gave it 5.4 and Alex gave it 8.5.Hans- a 5.4 would land it on your Bad chocolate list, or at least earn it a Dishonorable Mention.
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
Hans,In a comment on the Bonnat Porcelana article I asked the following question---------------------------"...you said, Valrhona also has another Porcelana bar readily available: Palmira. Thats a little known fact Valrhona is slowly revealing to the public.Thanks for that info. Its good to know. You always have good information. Im curious about whether that kind of information is publicly available to the avg consumer, like me, or did you find that out from people you know or other insider connections that you have?"-----------------Since that comment is awaiting moderation I thought I'd ask it here too.
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
Here's a link to Hans' excellent Cocoa Content with the Bonnat Porcelana article . His comment abt Palmira being porcelana is in the comments section.
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
QUOTE:"As evidenced from his posts on the other three sites he posts to, Han's is full of information."Agreed. I'd only modify that by saying that Hans has " reliable information. His " House Tour: The Worlds Great Gourmet Chocolate Producers " on The Nibble is a masterpiece and a gold mine of useful information.Brady- you've got lots of good info yourself. I've benefited from what you've written, especially your "Flavor Notes" chart.Hans' tour gives the characteristics of the makers and Brady's "Flavor Notes" chart helps explain why they have those characteristics. Used together I found them both very valuable!So thanks to you both for your good work!OlorinP.S.- I changed my user name from "Theo Broma"
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
Gwen- I don't know how to explain the fruitiness in the Valrhona Palmira. It seems to fit the Valrhona profile though, so likely it is intentional. I don't think there is any deceiving manipulation. Hans probably has the best answer in that variation in fermentation could be playing a role. I think part of Valrhona's style is a light roast and a deliberately shorter fermentation (Anyone can set me straight on this point if I am wrong). The shorter fermentation resulting in more acidic flavored chocolate. Could this acidity level be likely bringing out the fruity flavors we experience? Being slightly more specific, I found Palmira 2005 to be fruity, tangy, rich with vanilla notes coming through. The 2006 by the way, was not as rich or deliberate. It resembled a chocolate brownie at times. Also, reviewing my tasting notes, the Coppeneur Mexican Porcelana also had a tangy dark berry note to start, but overall the bars were very different.Theobroma- I had tried to confirm by emailing Valrhona that the Palmira was indeed a Porcelana. I received an auto-reply awhile ago stating someone would get back to me but have never received confirmation from Valrhona. I did however read it on Han's site in a review of the Bonnat Porcelana. Coming from Hans, it was confirmation enough. As evidenced from his posts on the other three sites he posts to, Han's is full of information.
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
Hans makes an excellent point-- what qualifies beans to be labeled "porcelana"? It sounds like a certain kind of pod and beans. It's interesting it's also grown in Mexico. Also, is porcelana a Criollo (that's what the Palmira bar said) or a hybrid?
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
Valrhona's been keeping that under their hat for some time now until recently...it was revealed slowly, now trickling into the mainstream.Other than a lack of bitterness and astringency, I think there really is no similarity among them all, in that there is no unifying thread to tie each bar together. Previously, I could say there was but since the inception of Palmira, the oddball that it is, as well as these Mexican bars, Porcelana as a whole is now just as varied a cacao as anything else.I've been wondering lately what exactly is Porcelana anyway. I mean, here we have so many bars on the market of this rare, esteemed cacao that was previously available by two makers but now can be purchased by more than a generous handful. Plus, flavors are amazingly different, so naturally I am...well, not doubtful, but highly curious. Perhaps such variety relates to what Clay mentioned in another post, about fermentation contributing to flavor in HUGE ways. It'd be interesting to get feedback from someone who actually knows about Porcelana genetics and growing practices because from a consumer end, this is all very convoluted.
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
Brady-You're a fortunate guy to have so many friends who appreciate chocolate like you do! That Porcelana Bash sounds like so much fun.Thanks for the info. I didn't know that Valhrona Palmira is porcelana, so this is good to know. How did you learn this?Along with Gwen, I'm also curious what makes Valhrona so red fruity. Personally I don't really care for it.
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
Myself and six other friends recently had an evening we called the Porcelana Bash. We compared seven different Porcelana bars (Bonnat's, Coppeneur (Mex. and Ven.), Amedei, Valhrona (Palmira 2005 and 2006), and Domori). The styles of the makers varied greatly and came through in each bar. Beyond makers we found a difference in the 2005 v. 2006 Palmira. RunnerNYC has posted a few pictures on her TCL page. In one of her pictures you can see the difference in color of the bars. That impressed me in that pure porcelana bars should be lighter in color with a reddish tint. Some of ours were pretty dark. The Coppeneur from Mexico matched the appearance description the best. None of the bars could be passed off as being similar to the others. The differences between bars were great but there were some similarities between some of them too. Across all of them, we didn't find any bitterness and little to no astringency. Except for the Valrhona, no strong fruity flavors. I think the Bonnat matched the flavor description of what I expect a porcelana to taste like. For me, it was Domori's ultra creamy texture that clings somewhat to the roof of the mouth that made it stand out. It had a honey and chocolatey flavor.
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
Agreeing with Theo, it's not really accurate to determine a "best" type of chocolate, especially because different chocolates are "best" at certain tasks and pairing with different flavors, so the term is purely circumstantial, even regarding individual taste preference.Even so, enough people may rank a certain chocolate highly on a consistent basis to give the impression that it is the "best." Again, though, this might not be the case to everyone else. It's only the best to a small subset of the population.One more thing before I forget, cacao from the Chuao region is not entirely criollo. It's a blend, including Forastero.
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
Awesome post Theo Broma, I totally agree with you!!!
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
I'm not sure it's possible to call any cacao or any chocolate bar "the best in the world". Tastes vary too much and chocolate makers vary too much with what they make of the same beans. Besides, to truly be called "the best in the world" would mean that you had tasted every single chocolate in the world and that's a huge undertaking.Actually, I'm not being critical and I know you were just using hyperbole to express how delightful the porcelana is, so your point still stands that it's great. I'm no expert, but I think that many would say that the Chuao beans are at the top level too. They're criollo beans from Chuao Venezuela, so your country can boast 2 of the best!I'm a neophyte but in my limited experience here's how I've rated various chocolates (of the ~200 that I've tasted):Amedei Chuao, 70% = 10. For me, this bar sets the gold standard.Amedei I-Cru Venezuela, 70% = 9.9. Another Venezuelan!Amedei Porcelana, 70% = 9.9 Sublime, but a slight notch below ChuaoAmedei I-Cru Madagascar, 70% = 9.8....( a few others on the list, notably the other Amedei I-Crus)Domori Porcelana, 70% = 9.2 Excellent, but not to the level of Amedei....(way down the list...)Bonnat Chuao, 75% = 7 Nowhere near as good as Amedei's.Just my opinion and preferences. YMMV (Your mileage may vary)
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
Had the opportunity once to try a Chocolate piece made from Porcelana Cacao, from the Andean Region in my country Venezuela. How I can describe that experience??? SUBLIME!!!!!! Any other Chocolate lovers able to express their experiences or opinions? www.therepublicofchocolate.blogspot.com
updated by @The Republic Of Chocolate: 04/10/15 14:42:38
Mol d'Art
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Hi Magrietha,
i'm also in South Africa, Cape Town, i have a well looked after Prefamac tempering machine to sell.
If you wish to have more info please contact me at antonino@cocoafair.com
Mol d'Art
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
N early four years after the first post in this thread, I find I too had a similar issue with Mol D'art - purchased 2 x 12kg machines, the first one died after 1 day, and they suggested I just open it and look at the wiring...it was sent back for repair in the end, which took around 2 - 3 weeks.
Just after it arrived back, my 2nd machine also died - they said so unusual for two to fail it must be power surges or something wrong with my power supply. My electrician took a look inside, said it had been re-wired, the thermostat was 'average' and had failed, and this failure could not have been a result of the power surge. He tested my factory and said I had stable power, and some thing wired into the Distribution Board absorbed/prevented power surges.
When the machines are going, they are good to work with, but my electrician could not believe what I paid for these given they were so cheap inside. I think I am just unlucky to have 2 failures...none of my other melters (Matfer) have had issue, nor has any of my other equipment, some very specialised.
I just cancelled a further order of 2 x 6kg from Mol D'art, as they were not very helpful. So I have a different brand melter coming, and will hope it goes a little better than the Mol D'arts, which I am not sure I would buy again.
Mol d'Art
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
I own two of them, had them over 5 years and never had an issue. They are plugged in day and night and have survived power surges, uneven current, and every kind of electric shock Ecuador's power system can provide.
Mol d'Art
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Richard, thanks for the info, now I know what I will be letting myself in for. Will have to discuss the issue with my partners.
Mol d'Art
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Honestly we have several mold art machines and they are a good quality, JKV copy. Mostly they run forever but if you need service you are on your own. Having said that, the only way to get ip and running is to call an electrician and get it fixed, as there is nothing too complex that a good electrician can't figure ourpt, bit try and get a machine electrical guy, not a home light switch guy.Another option is to call Bakon USA as they are now making these type of machines and can help with parts and service I am sure or local repair experts in your State.Then send the invoice to MoldArt, and if they don't pay advise them you will post you issues on line
Mol d'Art
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
I know this is an old discussion, but as I am new to the subject I would like to know if anyone has recent incidents with Mol d'Art. I live in South Africa and the only way I will get ANY equipment will be by having it shipped here from wherever! I was seriously thinking of the Mol d'Art and would like to know what the situation is now. Thanks.
Mol d'Art
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
These are very simple machines with nothing more than a heating element and a thermostat. Mold'art has set themselves apart from other European mnfctrs by not having an on/off switch or any inspection tags. While I like european machines, I stronly believe that if you want to sell a product in N. America, it should adhere to N. American regulationsWhile I have not used Mold'art, I have had a similar machine "martelatto" and after 6 mths of daily use, came in to work one morning smelling burnt chocolate and plastic.... I now have a s/s behemoth using a waterbath system.
Mol d'Art
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
GM -
Which of these the machine you're talking about?
In any event, you've hit on one of the golden rules of buying machinery: don't if there is no local (i.e., US) distributor. I know that there are many people who swear by the melters but I don't know anyone (in the US) who uses any of their larger and more complicated machines. Maybe there aren't built for shipping?
Mol d'Art
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Sorry to hear about similar frustration.Forgot to mention that we also got a vibrating table from Mol d'Art. The table vibrated violently and they said it was because it was built for 240 V DC but they only put on a transformer for 120 AC without re-regulating the motor. Their answer to the problem was for us to buy a dimmer switch and hook it up at our expense. Their comment at that time was also "it costs nothing... it is simple". So much for getting what you pay for. It is a $1,500 piece of junk that is completely unusable.
Mol d'Art
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
I ordered 3kg melting pots from Mol d'Art about a year ago and they arrive damaged (they shipped from Belgium packed loosely in a cardboard box with no additional padding or protection. I called as soon as I received them and sent pictures at their request and then heard nothing. I called again after 2 weeks and received a recording saying that they were closed for vacation for a month. Finally, after almost three months and several nasty emails, I finally received functioning machines. That said, they have worked fine since I received them, though I am not inclined to do business with them in the future.I do have a Prefemac 15kg compact moulding machine which I have used for 3-4 batches a week for the past year and a half with no glitches at all.
Mol d'Art
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Anyone have any experience with Mol d'Art? I have one of their 15 Kg moulding machines that broke down one day after we started using it. They have insisted the problem "is simple", but they have not corrected the problem. Plus, we have wasted an inordinate amount of time chasing down blind alleys to address their guesses about what might be wrong. They have literally no warranty service in the U.S. Just a guy on the phone in Belgium who asks someone else what could be wrong and then tells you to get your own supplies ("they cost nothing" according to him) and hire an electrician.We are very proficient with electronics and machinery in general and temperers in particular, and we have been extremely disappointed in the poor performance of Mol d'Art.Based on our limited but surprisingly frustrating experience with them, we would certainly not recommend that anyone do business with Mol d'Art.Any feedback would be welcome.
updated by @GM: 04/11/25 09:27:36
Chocolate - renewable energy to fuel the car of the future?
Posted in: News & New Products Press
It looks like this story has been updated; http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090505/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_chocolate_racer_3
Chocolate - renewable energy to fuel the car of the future?
Posted in: News & New Products Press
Gwen, thanks for responding. When we were in Belize - we discovered that disease was affecting a great deal of the cacao crop and that the farmers were being taught (by the cooperative) grafting techniques to make the trees disease resistant. Since nothing should be wasted - I'm wondering if the diseased cacao would be useful for fuel development(versus chocolate).
Chocolate - renewable energy to fuel the car of the future?
Posted in: News & New Products Press
I'm all for cutting down on fuel costs with gasoline approaching $150/barrel this summer. One possibility is to use chocolate waste for fuel. Here's the link for more information: http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1221/p01s09-wogn.html
updated by @Holly & Paul Stabin: 03/11/26 06:20:34
Vivid metaphors
Posted in: Tasting Notes
"This is more of a beautiful girl next door than a Cheryl Cole with her hoard of image consultants dictating her appearance."
by Lee McCoy of Chocolate Reviews on Mast Brothers Chuao
Vivid metaphors
Posted in: Tasting Notes
I went to 2011 San Francisco International Chocolate Salon, something I would like to share:
Fine chocolate is expensive, but less expensive than therapy - a visitor's T-shirt