Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Dig math,explanation is insightful. Thanks for the post.
Forum Activity for @David Sawyer
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Dig math,explanation is insightful. Thanks for the post.
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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hello all,This sounds a trifle complicated, but good to know. I personally prefer many other brands above Lindt, I find them a little dry. Has anyone tried the Bernard Callebaut chocolate?He makes it with the French traditional style and it is very good. I am not sure how much cocoa butter is in it, come to think of it.for fun and good taste too.... candy
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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I've started a new Forum thread titled Deconstructing Cocoa Content to address the specific need for a page that members can link to and point others to visit to learn "the truth" about cocoa content.
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Hi, sorry. The way it appeared was : the original post and then a place to comment, and then all the comments... So my comment came last but was meant to refer to the original post. I would like to post information on the amounts and importance of cacao butter in my site because people are so confused about cocoa "solids", 60% is thought by some of my customers to have more cocoa butter than 70% because "70% has more cocoa solids"... I would love to add links to anone's site on my link page also. Sorry if this is a confused mess- I am rushing!!link's on my homepage.Thanks.
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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I'm not sure who you're asking permission of or who would grant it, but you can surely use any information that I've provided.Would you please post the URL of your site here, though, so that we can all see it?
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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Thank you! May I add a link to this on my terminology page on my site?
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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I'd like to share a few preliminary observations. To the seasoned experts this is probably nothing new, but just remember that I'm a neophyte who's having fun learning about all of this.So far I've gathered the fat content data on 55 bars. Here are a few early observations:-The fat content varies from 30-50%-The higher the cacao content the higher the fat content. That makes sense since there is less sugar, so to make it more palatable there is more fat.-I see no relationship between fat content and my quality ratings. But since I don't like >80% as much as bars in the 70-79% range and I generally like >90% even less, even though these have the highest fat percentages they have lower ratings (according to my preferences).
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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What if it is milk chocolate? It has the fat from the whole milk powder... I make homemade chocolate and i know that milk chocolate has fat from the milk unless the chocolate companies use skim milk like I do. I read the labels and I know that the other companies use full fat milk.. Actually some companies use both skim and full fat milk. Anyway... That is a good way to see the amount of cocoa butter is in the dark chocolate, or sweet chocolate (chocolate with no milk)...
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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I have found the most incredible chocolate. It is raw, unprocessed, organic, and breath-takingly delicious. The cocoa butter causes it to melt in your mouth the way chocolate should. Also, it makes your body buzz instead of feeling heavy... it's available at certain markets in NYC but you can also order online at www.gnosischocolate.com . My favorite flavors are Simplicity, Coconut-Almond, and SuperChoc. To die for....especially for all of you who LOVE cocoa butter.
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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Interesting, Edward, but I wouldn't be surprised if your customers would love aerated chocolate if you made it for them. You're not only selling a product, but also a service, which could possibly be your own market niche. Just a thought
The link I provided earlier mentioned that Callebaut's aerated chocolate chunks are cheaper than "normal" chunks, presumably because of less cocoa mass and more air, yet I wondered how that could be possible to account for the expenses in equipment, labor, packaging, marketing, etc. My guess is that the money a company saves by reducing cocoa mass is invested towards all those additional production and promotion costs so that it can at least break even, presuming of course the costs are nearly identical. If not, even then the company stands to gain by the increased market presence.
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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You can make your own "aerated" chocolate by warming a whip cream dispensor, filling 1/3 full of very warm, untempered couverture, charging it with nitrous oxide and quickly dispensing it. It is a novelty--the taste or texture doesn't really pick me up by my ears and scream at me-- and I am still very hesitant to offer it with my customers. (Oh look, he's re-created the Aero chocolate bar...)One thing to factor in to manufacturer-made aerated chocolate is the added cost. True, the air is free, but since chocolate is sold by weight and not by volume, manufacturers would be reluctant to pay for yet one more process, more packaging costs as well as transport/shipping costs.
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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I can find a few problems with aerating chocolate:1) Because chocolate expands and contracts over time, excess air reduces the density of the mass and facilitates cracking and eventual crumbling of the bar.2) Air causes oxidation, which reduces shelf life of a product. A perfect example is whipped cream, which has a shelf life significantly less than that of its non-whipped counterpart.3) Excess air in the bar interferes with the chocolate-tongue contact so flavor dispersal is much more uneven and erratic.4) Density of texture would be affected so that the bar appears lighter and not as "rich" as a non-aerated bar of chocolate.However, I found a few useful links: Barry Callebaut Spartak (in Belarus) ZOMG Candy Blog That blog is of particular interest because it provides a picture and a description of a cross sectioned (aerated) Spartak 72% dark bar. (You can find it easily by doing a control F for "spartak elite.") The air bubbles are clearly visible, which contrasts with Callebaut's micro bubbles.
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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No, I don't think sugar is key to combining and maintaining the quality of cocoa butter and solids. I have sampled some very fine couvetures with 70%, 80% and 90% cocoa content, and while very intense and powerfull, the mouthfeel/texture is smooooth. IMHO the texture and suaveness of couveture is from the skill in conching, not from sugar."Displacement" theory or not, if I make a sugar syrup starting with one liter of water and two kgs of sugar, boil it all I want, I'll still end up with one liter of syrup. No volume is ever gained.I don't know of any sugar confection that gains volume once the "molecules and crystalline structure starts to mutate". Could you please furnish some examples?I, too, love my job, and make caramel on a weekly basis, but it's never gained volume on me....
updated by @Edward: 09/12/15 10:01:40
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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No, I meant sugar by itself doesn't add volume.Try it for yourself: Fill a measuring cup 3/4 full of water and start dumping sugar in. You can put more sugar than the amount of water in. No heat required, no evaporation loss. I can beat butter with a whisk and gain incredible amounts of volume without adding anything, (a'la "light" or "Diet" butter...) same for eggwhites--as in hot savoury souffles. (although I need sugar for stability in meringues and cold applications) Cotton candy is spun through a tiny orifice at high speeds, it's the gaps and spaces inbetween the tiny spun threads that account for the volume. (this principle is used for fiberglass insulation--it's the air trapped between the spun glass that provide the r-value or insulation, not the spun glass)Sugar by itself doesn't add volume.What percentage of sugar does Cluizel use in his products? I must confess, I've never tried his stuff yet, there are enough places to buy it around here though.Sugar is cheaper than chocolate, which is why the "cheaper" mnfctrs dump the stuff, up to 60% of sugar, in the cheap chocolate. The "good" mnfctrs only add enough to tame the flavour.Heck, old Hershey himself had a sugar plantation in Cuba just to support his factory, even had a little minature train to transport the sugar to port. Apparantly the train still exists and runs daily....
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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Olorin- The discussion has went in another direction, but I found some things tonight that might interest you. (Taken from Cocoa by Wood and Lass): Fat(cocoa butter) content of a bean is normally between 45- 65% of a dry bean. Most forasteros fall between 55-59% and criollo beans have a lower content of about 53%. Fat content of the bean also varies according to the growing season or environment. Beans developing during a dry season have a lower fat content.
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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Gwen, unless you're suggesting that you can compress a given amount of sugar and incorporate the mass into chocolate liquor so as to make more room for cocoa solids (butter and particles), then what you really get is more chocolate to be packaged and sold. You get heavier mass, in other words, and I'm not certain how the sugar would interact with the cocoa solids but from what I've seen, chocolate makers don't make a big science out of it. They just add sugar and incorporate.A Cluizel bar containing 60% cocoa butter? That seems unlikely; not even Hachez has that much. I have a bar of Cluizel's Tamarina 70% here and it includes a nutrition label printed (not adhered) on the box. The bar, according to my calculations, is 42.5% fat (17g of fat per 40g of chocolate), so combined with the 30% sugar, we get a remaining ~30% in cocoa particles.I'm not sure I understand what you mean by increasing the volume of a chocolate bar. Is this similar to increasing volume in a meringue? Are you implying you make the chocolate mass fluffier, more airy?
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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I think that sugar is the perfect medium to increase WEIGHT without increasing volume.When you make sugar syrup and add sugar to the water, the water level hardly rises. With meringues you are gaining volume by beating in air.
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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Gwen, I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't implying that the weight of certain types of sugars is important but rather how much of the bar's weight is comprised of sugar, especially in relation to cocoa butter and cacao particles (which, again, is irrespective of type of sugar; a ton of feathers is the same weight as a ton of bricks).
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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Another one from Alan McClure on the same blog..."In fact, it is possible, for example, to have a 74% bar that has less cacao--due to added cocoa butter--and is therefore less robust in flavor, than a 71% bar with no cocoa butter added."I know that for many of you this is nothing new, but I'm posting this for the sake of those like myself who are newer to this chocolate world and still have lots to learn.
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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I just read this by Alan McClure of Patric and thought it was relevant to this discussion..."Sometimes if the cocoa beans have too low an amount of cocoa butteras in the case of low quality cacaococoa butter must be added,". (Read it on the Patric blog .)
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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Gwen, you're assuming cacao particle content remains constant when it doesn't. Normally fat does carry flavor but in the case of chocolate, when you add cocoa butter to a recipe, you need to remove cacao solids or sugar to compensate. So, you decrease the cacao solids as a result, which reduces the overall intensity of the chocolate's flavor. Hope that clarifies things a bit
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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Steve DeVries was roasting organic cocoa beans prior to the existence of Theo, and still is, and to the best of my knowledge, Taza was roasting organic cocoa in the US when the comment above was written. Now several other small companies in the US also use organic cacao, which they roast, in some products.As someone pointed out recently, if superlatives are to be used at all, then fact-checking is of the utmost importance.
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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QUOTE: "This is why I don't understand the suggestion that fat masks flavor."I was certainly not implying that this is a general principle. The idea of fat masking flavor is probably only true in a few instances. Hans has said elsewhere that Hachez uses excessive cocoa butter to cover poor quality beans. That was what I was referring to, but it's the only incident that I'm aware of.I was also not implying that a high fat content is necessarily bad. It may be that a higher fat content makes a chocolate better. I'm just wondering if there is any relationship at all. I suspect that there's a minimum amount of cocoa butter needed for a proper mouthfeel.Anyway, with the chocolate I'm tasting I've started to track the fat/ cocoa butter content when the information is available. I'm curious to see how the cocoa butter content correlates with my preferences.
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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QUOTE: "The best tasting chocolate I have ever had has zero soya lecithin and a high fat content. "Gwen,What chocolate is that?
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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My whole problem with the cacao butter and cocoa powder discussion is this:If you want to make chocolate, why take out the butter at all?One might destroy all kinds of properties of the original oils. And if you dont need cacao butter for something else..there is no problem.We leave everything as is. Just mill the cacao with sugar.Its fine
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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Alot of companies don't have the nutritional information on the package either. It's my understanding that different bean types have different cacao solid/cacao butter ratio but 54% percent cocoa butter per bean is considered the average. In this way you could calculate the amount of cacao solids in a bar without fat content indicated on the package. A rough estimate of 50% is even easier to calculate. I forget which beans have more fat but I think it is forastero from Ghana. At least I remember that the butter content in those beans is supposed to be harder, which makes them more suitable for milk bars.
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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I like a creamy texture just as much as the next person, but I know some folks who downright dislike a chocolate just because the texture is slightly off. Think about it this way. The average person on the street, when asked to describe a bar of chocolate, tends to mention texture first and then flavor, which could be attributable to a number of things:1) cocoa butter's low melting point causes the texture to be noticed first2) chocolate's flavor takes some time to fully develop, so to render a final opinion before the flavor develops is not really useful3) natural preference towards fatty foodsSo, if a company wishes to target a particular audience, that's fine--by no means does it infer that the product is only intended for that audience because everyone has different tastes for different reasons. I still eat M&M's whenever I can
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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I'm one of those "certain clientele" who likes creamy chocolate. I have no idea what I means, but I'm pretty sure it's code for uneducated consumer. I'm extremely well educated, but I still like my cacao fat in my chocolate bar.
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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Lindt, sadly only uses vanillin. The amount of vanilla is less than 1% for almost every chocolate mnfctr.Soy lecithin is not absolutely neccesary. Although lecithin is used as an emulsifier, in very small quantities it makes the product thinner. In other words it mimics the use of more cocoa butter. However only 1/2 of 1% is usually added
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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Yeah, you really can't say that extra cocoa butter is cutting corners because cocoa butter is pretty pricey. I've noticed that it can be used to muffle the flavor of bad beans and to improve texture of bars. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if makers add cocoa butter solely to appeal to a certain clientele, namely those who favor texture over flavor and to ease the transition into higher percentages for those folks who are just too reticent of going that route. Cocoa butter is a better way of doing that than a stronger 60%-class bar because you don't get excess sugar in the way. At least with cocoa butter, you taste more of the cacao even if it is subdued.
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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My ultimate objective with this is to take another step forward in my quest for finding great chocolate. I'm wondering if any correlation can be drawn between the amount of cocoa butter and the quality of the chocolate.My initial impression is that there isn't any direct correlation, especially since added cocoa butter is sometimes used to mask inferior beans.What do you think?
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
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Here are a few questions that came to my mind about this:
Does any other part of cocoa contribute fat?Is cocoa butter 100% fat? If its not, then there is even more cocoa butter than the fat content shows.
What are the typical weights (or percentages) of soy lecithin and vanilla? These must use some part of the cocoa total, but maybe its negligible.
Cocoa butter and cocoa solids
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Hans has a very thought provoking article in Cocoa Content called " Why cocoa content matters ".
In it he shows a very insightful way to determine the amount of cocoa butter. Here's the essence of it:Cocoa content only tells you how much of the bars weight is comprised of cocoa solids. Now, its important to understand that cocoa solids refers to the chocolates combined weight of cocoa butter and dry cocoa particles (i.e. cocoa powder). You can find the amount of cocoa butter from the amount of fat, though. Once you have that you can determine the percentage of the rest of the solids.Follow these steps from the nutrition label:
- Note the serving size, since it varies.
- Note the Total Fat The Fat is from cocoa butter
- Divide the Total Fat by the Serving size (Fat/Size), then multiply by 100 to get the percentage of fat
- Subtract the percentage of fat from the cacao percentage and the difference will tell you what percentage of the bar consists of dry cocoa solids.
Cocoa butter percentage + cocoa solids percentage = Total cacao percentage.For example, consider a bar of Lindt Excellence 70%. The Nutrition Facts show the serving size as 42g, with 17g of fat. Divide 17 by 42 and multiply the result by 100, and youll get 40. This means theres 40% cocoa butter. Subtract that number from 70, which in this case is 30% dry cocoa solids . (40 + 30 = 70)
What do you think of this?
updated by @ChocoFiles: 04/10/15 05:06:03
Help! Need to find cocao pods for daughter's wedding in November
Posted in: Allow Me to Introduce Myself
Thank you Clay for that timely reply! Wish me luck!
Help! Need to find cocao pods for daughter's wedding in November
Posted in: Allow Me to Introduce Myself
As near as I know, the only semi-reliable source for cocoa pods in the whole of the USofA is a place in the flower district of NYC called Caribbean Cuts .When you visit the site, click on the Unique Flowers link (I'd like to be able to send you there directly but the site uses a frameset so I can't) and then you'll see Cocoa Pods in the frame on the left. Click on that link for more info.I am not sure what their actual order times or quantities are but they do need to be ordered in advance. You'll have to contact them to find out.
Help! Need to find cocao pods for daughter's wedding in November
Posted in: Allow Me to Introduce Myself
Hi folks, I am finding it extremely difficult to find cacao pods to put on tables at her wedding. She has a raspberry and chocolate theme, and recently in one of the Bridal Magazines, they showed the pods dipped in silver and arranged around the tables, which were actually quite beautiful. If anyone can point me in the right direction, I would be eternally grateful.
updated by @Deb: 04/17/15 19:26:01
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
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I'll point out that I had a somewhat similar experience with the Bonnat Porcelana thatHans Peter Rot had, and it was during the summer of 2008, not long after his review was first published. This bar had, as he noted, a lack of the complexity one might expect, and also, for me, one of the few overwhelming components was a very strong note of Piss. I mean, not pleasant, and the other main components were a most delicious strawberry and chocolatiness, this was bizarre. However, at that time, I really did find myself struggling with the question of whether this bar was work of genius, or a piece of junk (or perhaps a new genre was born -- genius junk?) I really found that, in spite of it all, there was something very interesting, you might even say compelling about this chocolate. I decided at that time that I would not write about the experience, instead giving Bonnat one more try before I finally did review their Porcelana.Lately, I've been gearing up to publish a Porcelana piece on The Chocolate Note , and have recently given the Bonnat another whirl. To great results, I am very impressed with this chocolate, nothing nasty at all, and it isn't that I can't love any chocolate which contains anything "unpleasant," either, but the intriguing quality was there, without any of that very bizarreness, and yet it is different, it's distinctive as compared to another Porcelana.So I would say the opinion formed with the 5.4 rating, and the acerbic review, calling this chocolate "grisly" must have been the result of some bad batches in 2008, or of course possibly they are still having them occasionally. (Although for me, grisly is I think in the 3 or below category of rating. time to move over to the "rating systems" discussion?)I would like some more information on where this idea that Valrhona Palmira is actually a Porcelana originally came from, it seems unusual that Valrhona wouldn't want to advertise the fact, that being such a highly marketable and sought after bean and all. Or perhaps, they are trying to mystify themselves some more (big surprise?)In my upcoming blog on Porcelana, I won't include any of the "types," and now Bonnat has several of those, but am interested in hearing feedback about how others have experienced these. The blog will focus only on Amedei, Bonnat, and Domori. I did not have the opportunity to try the Scharffen Berger years back, that has been mentioned, nor the Coppeneur limited editions. I was contacted by Coppeneur, who wanted to send me some of their chocolates for review. I wrote back, telling which ones I had not tried, and mentioned an interest in the Porcelana they had on hand at that time. I also noted that I would be honest in my review, noting any criticism of the chocolates for my readers, and supplied them with my mailing address. When, after these emails, I never did hear back from them again, I became suspicious of this company, almost as much as I am of Original Beans, or at least certainly their confidence in their own products. So I am curious how these limited Porcelana chocolates were, but won't be shelling out any bucks to find out.
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
the beast cacao of the world is in ecuadornestle buy cacao that is of ecuador
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
The Coppeneur Limited Edition Mexican and Venezuela Porcelana bars were very successful so we've created a Limited Edition (very) Porcelana bar from Peru. www.coppeneurchocolate.com under "Media".The Peruvian Porcelana harvest was too small to put through the Coppeneur winnowing machine so we peeled the beans by hand.
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
Cocoa, 4th ed. by Wood and Lass: ISBN0-0-470-20618-7 and 063206398x both work. Hans recommended the book.
Porcelana Cacao The best Cacao in the world?
Posted in: Opinion
Brady,What is the title of the book? Sounds like it might need reading.Alan