Forum Activity for @Clay

Note to everyone: The online auction ends May 26 (starts closing at 6pm).

Oahu Auctions is conducting an online auction featuring equipment from the Wailua Estate chocolate production facility on Oahu , Hawaii. This auction includes commercial bean to bar chocolate manufacturing equipment from an operating production facility.

Featured equipment includes:
• Packint Ball Mill Grinder
• Packint Roll Refiner
• Packint Rotary Conche
• FBM Unica Temper Depositor
• FBM Clima 50 Cooling Tunnel
• US Roaster Millennium Roaster
• Packint Winnower
• Stainless production tables
• Shelving, tools, and additional production support equipment

Dave Brandt 808-371-6055

https://bid.oahuauctions.com/WAIALUA-ESTATE-CHOCOLATE-COMPLETE-BEAN-TO-BAR-PRODUCTION-LINE_as116028

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No worries.  You're right, deodorized ccb should be - odor free.  If it smells like vanilla, that's almost certainly a compound called vanillin (natural vanilla is almost entirely the compound vanillin) which is pretty volatile, and even the most poorly run deodorizers in the world would strip vanillin out of cocoa butter - not that it should be there in the first place!

Thanks, Sebastian.  I've decided to send the whole lot back and ask for a refund.  I'm 90% convinced it's not pure cocoa butter and malfeasance is involved.  I don't know whether it's on the part of the vendor I purchased from or (probably more likely) their supplier.  I took a chunk of it to the Big Island Chocolate Festival and showed it to some veteran chocolate makers and a fellow who's sold literal tons of cocoa butter and they all said they'd never seen any like it and they wouldn't use it.  So, I'm not going to risk using something fishy in our chocolate.

Here's a few additional details that helped me come to this decision. 

• I also ordered a bit of deodorized cocoa butter from them just to try, wondering if it might make better CB silk.  That stuff has a light, pleasant benzoin/vanilla scent.  I've never used deodorized cocoa butter before, but I would think it would have almost no scent (it's called "deodorized), and any scent it has shouldn't be vanilla.
• I thought I'd try making an experimental batch of white chocolate with some of the deodorized stuff, and after a few hours of only sucrose and CB in the melanger, it made a surprisingly tasty, fluffy icing.  Never seen cocoa butter go fluffy or taste good by itself.  I'm guessing a fragrance was added to mask a scent that would give away the fat's true constituents.
• A few weeks ago, my partner and I noticed how an earlier shipment of cocoa butter from them smelled when I melted it.  It had a faint coconut scent.  Like idiots, we found that amusing, never thinking it might actually contain coconut oil.  I think we're so accustomed to our bean flavors changing with every month's harvest that we just shrugged it off as natural product variation.

This has been a good learning experience.  I need to scrutinize every shipment of ingredients as soon as I receive them, because now I'm the fool with no cocoa butter in the middle of nowhere and only two weeks out from another festival with low inventory.  Lessons are always best learned the hard way.

At any rate, thanks so much for your help on this.

Well, it's hard to say.  Sounds like you're ordering from a small guy who's handling both food and cosmetic products (which is where many off spec food products go to die), and probably doesn't understand much about their supply chain.  I don't love these scenarios, but I do understand why they exist.  If they didn't provide you with a CoA for your product, they almost certainly should have one from their supplier - and you could ask them for it. If they can't (or won't) produce one - it's probably a good sign to start looking for an alternate vendor. 

From the photos alone, I don't think you've got a contamination issue. Assuming there's not intentional malfeasance in play (lets take them at their word) - I suspect it's either what I previously mentioned, or if it's a deodorized cocoa butter, there could be a scenario where they simultaneously ran their deodorizer REALLY hot and somehow got a small bit of water in it - which flashed into steam and a bajillion little steam bubbles incorporated into the cocoa butter while they had an agitator running all out.  You can send me 100g of it if you want and I can test that pretty easily, but there's not much you can do with the findings of that unless you've got a vacuum oven.

You can also use your senses - if it smells or tastes like something it shouldn't - then that takes us down a different road. 

Thanks, Sebastian and Clay.  I really appreciate your thoughts on this. Regarding the photos:

1. This is what happened to the thin film of CB left in the bottom of the pan after melting and allowed to sit and cool on its own for a while.  This was after being scraped pretty well with a spatula, so there wasn't much left in the pan, which is why it surprised me that it was able to fight gravity and draw itself up into little balls.
2. This is a partially melted chunk that I pulled out while I was melting a some of it.  This shows how the continuous phase melted and turned transparent faster than the spheres.  Observe the air bubbles, too.  This is something else that suggests to me that it there was a vigorous attempt to mix it and air got incorporated as a result.
3. This is a shot of the CB as I received it.

None of the above photos shows the result of melting and resolidifying, but it essentially goes right back into the same mealy state I got it in.  The only difference is that there was a bit of liquid, like cooking oil (not water), at the bottom of the container I let it set up in.  This was well stirred as I melted it, so I wouldn't think it was just an issue with different origins of cocoa butter not being mixed well.

I procured this from a small online store that sells various plant butters for body products and food additives.  They claim it's sourced from Ghana.  I'm small potatoes and can't afford to ship a pallet of cocoa butter to Hawaii let alone use it in a year, which is why I've been trying to do business with this shop where I can buy 30-lb quantities every couple months for under $20/lb.  It's always looked like any CB I've used up until this last order, but I'm thinking I might need to look for a different supplier now.

Sebastian:

Welcome back to the Forums – it’s been a while!

Skwerl – Sebastian is an industry veteran who’s been contributing to these forums since 2015. I did not have answers to your questions, so I contacted him and asked him to participate.

Well shoot, I didn't realize TCL still had a forum - and here I've been absent for all these year.  Thankfully Clay reminded me by sharing this post!

Josh - can you describe your photos a bit more? Which photo shows how you received it?  And is one of them what it looks like after you melted it and resolidified it (if so which one)?  Is the one with the bubble tea like appearance a bunch of solid cocoa butter spheres, in a continuous layer of a liquid cocoa butter phase?

where do you get your butter from, and who's the original processor of it?  Do you have a specification for it?

I've definitely seen super unusual behavior from ccb before.   Cocoa butter has a whole range of fatty acids, and often the larger (especially asian) processors will create massive, massive lots that are blended in interesting ways, and may not be particularly homogeneous - so you may get butter that is one giant lot (like a million tons in a lot - crazy) - but is very non-homogenous and as a result there can be 'pockets' of very low melting ccb's and very high ones.  Most people don't have a DSC to fingerprint their butters, but if your spec has one listed, and if you have a CoA from your supplier, that's one thing to look at. 

Thanks for the response, Clay.  I appreciate your insight.

• The beans look just fine inside and out save for some occasional light "white dust" surface mold on the shells.
• I don't notice the flavor in the nibs at all, and not during the first part of refining, even after most of the acetic has been driven out.
• No odors present in the room with the refiners, either.
• My hygrometer usually reads in the low 60s for sunny days and WAY higher on rainy ones, naturally.  We usually havce a mix here, so I'd say any one batch of chocolate would happen with an average of 65-70% RH.

The thing that really makes me think it could be humidity-related is that the musty scent is only slightnly noticeable when removing chocolate from the melanger, but it is highly noticeable the next day when I go to clean the chocolate-covered machinery. My guess is that while that residual chocolate is sitting there, now cool, it's happily absorbing moisture and giving the source of the mustiness exactly what it needs.

I watched the Technology Connections video and have changed my opinion of them after watching it. Dehumidification can be a solution (or part of a solution) to some mustiness issues.

If you cut beans in half, do you notice any mold or mildew? Do you notice the taste in the nibs after roasting? Can you smell the mustiness in the room where the melanger is?

Do you have a hygrometer in the room? Do you know what the humidity is? (40 ~ 55% rH is a good sweet spot).

I don't think those rotary desiccant devices work very well, and I went poking around and found this video from Technology Connections that goes into it a bit.  Your best bet for efficiency is probably still the old fashioned compressed gas heat pump style. 

Desiccant dehumidifiers are fascinating... but not for everyone

I've been having some musty flavors creep into my chocolate with long times in the melanger, so I'm about to experiment and see if I can tame the humidity a bit (air conditioning is rare in Hawaii!).  I'm hoping that's what's causing the problem rather than a fermentation/storage defect.

Hey, folks.  I received a shipment of cocoa butter from a new vendor and I've never seen a texture like this.  It's a mealy aggregation of a bunch of little spheres.  I thought perhaps it had just cooled in a weird way, but upon melting and cooling, it forms the same texture.  I noticed that even the film left in a pan I melted some in had retracted into little balls overnight.

I'm thinking maybe this has been cut with another fat, but perhaps this is just a type of cocoa butter I've never seen before.  When partially melted (see photo), there appears to be clear continuous and dispersed phases, which seems to support that.  The continuous phase seeems to melt at a slightly lower temperature.  Any thoughts?

Thank you,
Josh

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Seen this incubator in use — keeps temperature really stable, doesn’t take up much space, and is a game changer for tempering. Worth it at this price.

Great points, Keith - I learned something new!

I agree that roasting isn’t bad. It can even help bring out nutrients and taste. A good dark chocolate bar can still be healthy and tasty.

Also, labels can be confusing sometimes, so we should not trust them blindly.

I’m new here and still exploring the world of real chocolate, but I’d love to add my company, Thor’s Chocolate. We’re a USA-based, small-batch bean-to-bar chocolate maker focused on sourcing high-quality cacao and crafting premium chocolate bars with rich, authentic flavors. Our approach is rooted in traditional chocolate-making techniques and a strong emphasis on purity and quality.

There isn’t just one brand that makes the best chocolate in the world. The best chocolate usually comes from makers who focus on high-quality cocoa, simple ingredients, and careful small-batch crafting.

Many chocolate lovers enjoy a rich dark chocolate bar because it highlights the real flavor of cocoa. Others prefer the smooth and creamy taste of milk chocolate, while some people look for sugar free chocolate options so they can enjoy chocolate with less sugar but still keep the flavor.

I’ve also found that smaller craft brands often focus more on quality. For example, Thor's Chocolate offers a nice range including dark chocolate bars, milk chocolate, and even options that appeal to people looking for sugar-free treats. They also make some of the best white chocolate I’ve tried from a small artisan brand.

At the end of the day, the “best chocolate” really depends on what you enjoy most—bold dark cocoa, creamy milk chocolate, or smooth white chocolate. The fun part is exploring different makers and finding the one that fits your taste. 🍫

Premium Chocolate-Covered Marshmallows – Thor’s Collection

Enjoy the perfect mix of soft, fluffy marshmallows and rich artisan chocolate from Thor's Chocolate . Each piece is handcrafted to deliver a smooth chocolate coating with a light, sweet marshmallow center.

Varieties: Milk Chocolate Covered Marshmallows
Soft, fluffy marshmallows coated in premium chocolate
Handcrafted in small batches for rich taste and quality
Perfect for snacking, gifting, or dessert treats
Loved for the balance of creamy chocolate and soft texture
Great for holidays, parties, or sharing with friends

Available online starting at $19.99 per pack (9-oz) . Order directly from the store and enjoy premium handcrafted chocolate treats delivered to your door.

Premium Dark Chocolate Bars - Thor’s Collection

Indulge in Thor’s artisan dark chocolate, crafted for chocolate lovers and luxurious gifting. Smooth, bold, and ethically sourced, each bar is refined to perfection.

• Varieties: 70% Dark, 60% Dark, 60% Dark & Almond Bars, Dark Chocolate Peppermint Bar
• Smooth, rich flavor without bitterness
• Zero-sugar / Keto-friendly options available
• Ethically sourced cacao, all-natural ingredients, no additives
• Perfect for personal indulgence, gifting, or corporate presents
• Luxury gift boxes and variety packs available
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• Can be paired with wine or coffee for an enhanced experience

Available for purchase online starting at $9.99 per bar. FREE shipping on orders over $69.95. Choose single bars, variety packs, or luxury gift boxes.

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Premium Sugar-Free Chocolate Covered Marshmallows - Idaho, USA

Hello guys, I sell Gourmet chocolate covered marshmallows made with premium sugar-free chocolate. Keto-friendly, low-carb, and crafted for health-conscious consumers without compromising on rich chocolate flavor.

Available for retail and wholesale orders. Ideal for specialty stores, gift shops, regular customers, and online retailers.

Serious inquiries welcome.

 Chocolate Covered Marshmallows.jpg - 80KB

Welcome to TheChocolateLife Forums!

I am not sure what you are asking about. Do you want to know more about To'ak the brand? Are you looking to sell your mint set of packaging? Do you have information about To’ak and want to know if members are interested in hearing it?

Any or all of these topics are probably better addressed in a new post.

I have written about To’ak a number of times over on the TheChocolateLife, most recently about the CXM Alchemy collection. That link is: https://thechocolatelife.com/review-toak-cxm-alchemy-collection.

I have also been in touch with one of the founders within the past two weeks on unrelated topics.

I’m new here, so I’m not sure if I’m posting in the right place, but as this post is about packaging I thought I’d chime in. I have a mint set of limited edition packaging for a Reserve edition of To’Ak chocolate, but haven’t been able to find any mention of it in this group. It is the most expensive chocolate in the world, do members here have any interest in or knowledge of it?

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Mandy: Do you work for the company you link to? If yes, we need to have a private discussion about advertising.

Mandy – I appreciate that you did not appear to link to the company you work for, which apparently manufactures tin cans, given your email address. However, I do not know the relationship between the email address and Tin Boxes China, which is one of the sources you mention.

I have no issues with your continuing to post generally on topics such as this one that are in the expertise domain of your company. However, the moment they appear to cross over the line into promotion/advertising, you will be asked for compensation to advertise your company to my members.

Good suggestion! We have a chocolate shop. I think the aluminum foil +paper box packaging would be very suitable for us.

Hi everyone, choosing the right packaging is always a balancing act between product protection, cost, and brand identity. There is no "perfect" material—only the one that fits your current business stage. Here is a fair look at the trade-offs:

1. Paper & Cardboard

• Pros: Very low cost per unit and low MOQs. It’s highly customizable and feels very "artisanal." Many brands now opt for FSC-ce rtified paper to meet sustainability goals.

• Cons: It offers zero barrier against oxygen and moisture. Without an inner liner, the chocolate can easily absorb environment odors or suffer from fat bloom in humid climates.

2. Tinplate (Metal)

• Pros: The ultimate "vault" for chocolate. It provides a 100% barrier against UV light and air. As a tinplte chocolate packaging  not only premium but also infinitely recyclable, helping brands maintain quality during long-distance shipping.

• Cons: It is the most expensive option upfront. You have to deal with higher MOQs and it adds more weight to your shipping compared to lightweight alternatives.

3. Plastic (PET/PP)

• Pros: Great for "visual selling." It’s waterproof, lightweight, and very affordable for mass-market products.

• Cons: It provides no UV protection. Also, from an environmental perspective, the industry is under pressure due to plastic pollution , leading many premium consumers to prefer plastic-free options.

4. Aluminum Foil

• Pros: Excellent at blocking light and heat. It has been used for decades as the standard inner wrapper for chocolate bars .

• Cons: It’s fragile and offers no structural protection. Once the foil is torn, the chocolate is immediately exposed to the air.

Suggestions:

• If you are a startup doing local pop-ups, Paper is likely your best bet for cash flow.

• If you are shipping long distances or positioning as a luxury gift brand, the protective properties of Tinplate usually justify the investment.

What has been your biggest headache with packaging so far? Is it the cost, the MOQs, or the actual protection of the chocolate?

References & Further Reading:

• Journal of Food Engineering: Impact of Light and Oxygen on Cocoa Butter Stability and Fat Bloom (Refers to the barrier properties of metal vs. permeable materials)

• National Geographic: The Environmental Impact of Single-Use Plastics in Food Packaging

• International Tin Association: The Circular Economy: Why Metal is the Most Sustainably Recycled Packaging

• Technical Guide: Sealing Solutions and Barrier Properties for Premium Confectionery Tins (Note: This offers a deeper dive into the technical structures of lid types discussed above.)

There are multiple types of packaging used for chocolate, depending on the brand, purpose, and specific product. Some common types of packaging for chocolate

This post was spam. All contact information was deleted and the poster has been banned.

Hi Shelley,
As a senior packaging designer, I’d suggest looking at Packors . They offer custom-cut cushioning pads and can match specs closely, which makes it easier to compare quality and cost against your L.A. quote.

This post violated the TOS.

Yes! Mary@mychocolateshoppe.net

Is there contact information other than DMing you?

Is there contact information other than DMing you?

F/s I have closed my chocolate business looking to liquidate 2- 10lb Rev delta units- Virginia

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F/S 13 molds of 32 cavity 1x1x1 in five different designs- Virginia

F/S 20 Professional Polycarbonate  3 cavity Chocolate bar Molds- Virginia

I have closed my chocolate business and am looking to liquidate 85 molds in total

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Hi dear, I sell cocoa beans or cacao beans 

• F/S - CACAO BEANS - ECUADOR

I sell in this presentation of 1 kg good quality from de Amazon of Ecuador

MOQ 40 kg 

The delivery is for UPS - DDP

My office in Quito is: 

Address: Av. Orellana E2-30 y Av. 10 de agosto, edificio Francisco de Orellana, oficina 804, Quito, Ecuador

Company Global Delivery

Contact: +593997985975

Chat me for the price

If you travel to Ecuador will talk a lot 

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We are based in British Columbia, Canada. Yes, 120V/60Hz.

Where are you located – US state? (I am not a potential buyer but it’s always a good idea to let potential buyers know where the item is.)

I am also guessing this has a 120VAC 60Hz electrical supply.

CocoaTown deluxe Winnower for sale.

For full description, click link to CocoaTown's website:  cocoatown.com/products/cocoat-deluxe-winnower?srsltid=AfmBOooQZY6JDosPyvwUJK2a_2qDiZAkJjKH79OpO3Ekxy-tjuZ02RN-

We've been using this Winnower for the past 3 years. It works very well, leaving 2-3% husk. In excellent condition.

As our business is growing, we've recently purchased a new Winnower with larger capacity.

Current price on CocoaTown website: $2250

Our price: $975 USD obo
You would be responsible for shipping cost.

Vacuum not included (we have used the Stanley 1.5hp, 1.0 gallon wet/dry vacuum, cost about $50).

Link to photos:  photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOGlKc9wMbJ-zO7Nk4dGHW_h-YThRNv18o6P4BV7S3ik7nA-Bm2ipzXj90xQtz0Fg?key=MXRVcXF1NnBvSExsSlJXSm5CZUlCTjNZdFVaUUFn

Please contact us on this chat board with any questions, or email us: roxys@roxyschocolate.com.

Brand new, never been used. 

Asking price is $800 USD, but I'm willing to consider any offer.

https://kadzama.com/c/equipment/incubator-for-cocoa-butter-crystals-easy-tempering-machine/

Complete setup for small scale production. Ideal for starting up, as you want to run 1kg batches. Based on Chocolate Alchemy. This has processed around 100kg of beans thus far. All with Dutch plugs, except for the vibrating table (has UK plug – but can provide the adapter used)

Roasting – Molino Airfryer

Has a rotating drum to ensure good and even heat distribution. Good for 1kg batches. A small hole was made at the rim of the cap, to provide access to a temperature probe, enabling continuous temperature monitoring. The hole is so small that there is no effect on the heating. There is a spare unused drum, still in the original packaging. And loads of other holders that can be placed into the device, if you ever want to use it for something else but roasting cacao beans

Cracking – Champion Juicer 2000+ (MAR-220)

Comes with an unused spare grinding head, still in the original packaging. Very good work horse

Winnowing – self-made winnower (based on Chocolate Alchemy instructions)

Made such that it fits directly onto the Champion Juicer. With the Champion Juicer sitting on the bench, and the winnower on the frame which would sit on the floor. I recorded ~71% efficiency, which I think is quite good with the rule of thumb of having to expect 25% loss of mass of shells. All the PVC piping is loose and not glued together. Can provide a vacuum cleaner if desired

Refining – Premier Refiner

4.5kg tilting refiner. Only a picture of the box of the machine, for the simple reason that the machine has never left the box 😊. Comes with a spare drum, also never used. I also have a third drum, but that one’s lining doesn’t seem properly done, and it has a dent which will block the shear plate. You can get this last drum for free if you want to redo the lining and punch out the dent

3.5kg static refiner (B). This refiner runs a bit rough, it produces a bit more noise than the other one. It failed on what I think was a high temperature of the motor during a night run. Of course, I was not happy to find this in the morning. So I made the holes for the air inflow larger, and built a frame to go underneath the machine, to introduce (additional) forced airflow into the machine. You can get this wooden frame for free with the machine. The drum has a cavity in the lining where chocolate is still stuck. I would replace either the lining (or add a new layer on top) or the complete drum

3.5kg static refiner (A). This is a good refiner, runs smoothly. Given the experience with the other refiner, I had also made the holes for the air inflow larger at this machine as a precaution, but it had never failed on motor temperature (even in summer). This drum has seen less action than the other refiner, in this lining there is also a cavity where chocolate is still stuck. Here I would also suggest to either replace the lining (or just add a new layer), or the entire drum.

For the 3.5kg refiners, I have four spare wheels, two unused, and two which have been used.

There are also two spare shear plates, and a few washers and nuts.

Tempering – Chocolatiere FriFri Smelter

3L. Does the job well. Not much else to say.

Moulding – Vibrating table

I bought a dentist vibrating table, and modified the top such that it can exactly hold the typical moulds (LxW: 27.5x17.5cm), but also a smaller frame that can sit inside it, to hold the smaller moulds that I used. The feet are supposed to hold to the floor, but mine was moving around slightly during operation, so it makes sense to somehow fix it in place. Works good to get rid of most of the bubbles

Other

I currently have 30 moulds with four cavities each, each bar will weigh around 35gr. LxW of the mould is20x12cm.

Next to that, I have two jerrycans of cleaning agent. One specifically for polycarbonate moulds, and the other for the equipment.

Contact me at: ericriemersma@live.nl

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My apologies - I can be contacted on ericriemersma@live.nl