Forum Activity for @Sebastian

I suspect that'll work, but it'll be slow going.  Only potential watch out i'd see is that if your cocoa press cake isn't low enough in cocoa butter, said cocoa butter may heat up during grinding and turn to a paste in your spice grinder, at which point grinding effectively stops.  If you see that happening, you'll just need to grind in shorter bursts (or add a small amount of dry ice to grinding), but i do suspect it'll work.

OK, I have small, 200g spice grinder that turns at 28000 RPM. I was hoping it would work well enough for cocoa powder, but the problem is that some grains are larger, others are small. There is no mesh/screen on it. You just set the timer, it starts spinning and you take what you get, not good enough. The result is still too grainy for ice cream.

I am going to try a low tech solution, which is common in this country. Will rubber band strap a piece of 400 mesh screen where the lid of this machine would go, with a good rubber band, and put a plastic bag over that. Turn it on, tilt it back and forth and see what comes out. The screen comes next week. Hoping for a breakthrough, a cheap one.

400 mesh screen is sold on eBay in 12"x12" pieces, for $9, free shipping. If this works I might consider writing a book on single source chocolate, for under $1000.  (not really)

We can already make good chocolate, single source, but we have leftover cocoa powder that is not fine enough.

24 months is a very, very long time for a milk chocolate shelf life.  Bulk chocolate mfrs will put long shelf lives on their chocolate that they sell, well, because it's in their financial interest to do so (inventory and all).  Most of them have not done extensive shelf life testing on their bulk chocolates.   While you may find a milk chocolate that is still edible at 24 months (and quite possibly even good, depending on how robust the packaging is, which has more to do with gas permittivity than light, assuming opaque pacakging), I'd absolutely argue that it's the not the norm or even realistic for most products.

Given that shelf life in pure chocolate will always be a sensory, not a food safety, item - it's important to note that sensory is in the eye of the beholder, and there are few folks trained in sensory evaluation.  Many folks believe they are excellent tasters, when in fact they're quite terrible at it.  If an untrained individual who is poor at self evaluation (but believes they are adept) is conducting the sensory evaluation, they could quite easily come to a conclusion that a products sensory attributes are acceptable long past the time when they are, in fact, not...

BartBasi:
I have agree with Sebastian.  We start with the closest date on anything, our concern is maintaining top quality.  After we produce our first batch we hold that back; keep that in our case and we eat them daily.  Generally we quickly find after 2-3 weeks the flavor has had a noticable drop and that's the date we put on it for ourselves.  From a safety standpoint we measure water movement to get an idea about bacterial growth.  The projections from that let us know it's reasonable that our chocolate is good for months (if not years) - but that's meaningless to us because we can tell a drop in quality much sooner. So the short answer is we eat it. YMMV

Thanks BartBasi!

MJ, thank you for your response. The question arose out of a marketing meeting, not a production group. It was hypothetical, not procedural. I always feel it is in the best interest of all to extend questions beyond the inner circle to avoid confirmation bias.

Whoops I forgot to mention an important thing. 

I have 5 different origins all at different percentages ranging from 66 to 75.

And my weekly production is about 150kg (just starting up)

and I dont have a melter

cheers for your feedback

Must say I was a bit surprised to read this question posted from someone whose company Davis Chocolate is manufacturing products, private labelling, co-packing and I assume selling in interstate commerce? 

You business model puts you firmly in the category of a commercial concern that is required to be registered at FDA as a 'Food facility' and also required to fully observe and understand the CFR (Code of Federal regulations) that apply to chocolate and related food stuffs. 

To answer your question checking the FDA website will help with the questions you posed.  As a starter the following is taken directly from the FDA site and might help?

"With the exception of infant formula, the laws that the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) administers do not preclude the sale of food that is past the expiration date indicated on the label. FDA does not require food firms to place "expired by", "use by" or "best before" dates on food products. This information is entirely at the discretion of the manufacturer.

"A principle of U.S. food law is that foods in U.S. commerce must be wholesome and fit for consumption. A "best by", "use by" or expiration date does not relieve a firm from this obligation. A product that is dangerous to consumers would be subject to potential action by FDA to remove it from commerce regardless of any date printed on a label."

Some other thoughts....
Using any 'expired' or 'aged out' materials in a manufactured product is very poor manufacturing practice. "Good manufacturing practice" for both an artisan confectioner or a large commercial operation would require a bill of materials with the specifications and traceability / lot number of items like 'dried milk powder' recorded including expiry dating.  That said, in fact dried milk powder (DMP) is actually long lasting if stored dry and dark, it has been stored for years as a food for emergency relief use, or as part of the European commodity price protection program.  In the 1980's the  European intervention stores (huge warehouses) were full of sacks of DMP.  Personally, I'd use dried milk or milk crumb well in date for making milk chocolate.  Once all incorporated as final compound the combination of DMP, sugar and chocolate liquor yields a aW (water activity) usually well below 0.65 and milk chocolate is a shelf stable food from a microbiological standpoint,  that's without considering the changes in temper / sensory qualities that with occur during storage. 

By convention a product's 'shelf life' starts the day it completes manufacturing and is 'product released' from the production area / factory.    Your formulated product.... Milk chocolate I'm assuming in your case? should have a shelf life assigned from your experience of prior batches held and examined for quality after X months (bloom / temper other issues?)  Alternatively, a conservative short dated 'Use by" set and perhaps updated using results of a 'real time' stability study of a sample of your current production (hold back sample) could be used. (Personally I'd not be a fan of this approach.)      

Typically well made quality milk chocolate has a shelf life assigned by an experienced manufacturer of around 18 - 24 months from date of manufacture when stored at 68F in impermeable packaging protected from light.  Shelf life is an issue for bulk purchasing for small companies,  if I buy in bulk to get decent prices and then hold in stock, I'd typically ask for the product production dating when ordering 500lb lots and would reject short dated goods.  
    



MJ

Freddo, Sebastian -

I get asked the question about depositing thick chocolates (aka 2-ingredient chocolates, or chocolate with little or no added cocoa butter and/or lecithin) all the time. In fact, I - in conjunction with intrepid and stalwart customers - worked with FBM to develop upgrades to some of their continuous machines specifically to handle thick chocolate.

The basics are a heavier-duty motor in conjunction with a gear box at a different ratio to deliver more low-RPM torque driving the temepring auger, plus beefed up bearings to handle the load. These machines also offer the ability to change the speed of the tempering auger (increasing the dwell time in the tempering pipe results in more even spread of crystals through the chocolate) in 1% increments. Finally, through the use of a pneumatic valve that diverts the flow of chocolate, the continuous tempering cycle is never interrupted, as it is when the auger is stopped and started to regulate the flow for depositing. Taken together, this means that the FBM machines handle chocolates that other brands of continuous tempering machines struggle with.

That said, the smallest machine has a tempering capacity of up to 75kg/hr which is quite a bit more than 50kg/day. Assuming 4, 70gr cavities/mold and 2 molds/minute, that's a throughput of about 65kg/hr assuming you have enough molds and can work without interruption. That means you can do an entire week's worth of bar production in a single day rather than spending an hour or three every day molding bars.

I can tell you from experience - as can several users of these machines - that getting the dosing heads right for these high-viscosity chocolates can be a challenge.

FBM does have timed depositors on all of their machines, and we've found that the smaller machines can be used with two-ingredient chocolate, but it can take some finessing with the settings of the machine to get them to work consistently. We have chocolate makers using machines with 4 and 12kg working bowls successfully depositing 2-ingredient chocolate but it takes time and patience to dial in on the correct procedures. Over the past two years we've learned a lot about how to do it and do a pretty good job.

Something like a Savage melter will work but you'd want their measured doser, which has its own challenges with staying warm enough to keep the chocolate fluid ... but not too warm. If you don't use a measured depositor then you need to figure out an efficient way to fill the molds.

You could buy a volumetric depositor with a heated hopper. You want one cylinder per mold cavity for even dosing. The advantage is that these are incredibly accurate and can easily handle high-viscosity products. They work with an existing tempering machine, but the combination (e.g., Savage kettle and depositor with four heads) is going to cost close to $20k. FBM's Unica is in the same price range.

:: Clay

Our chocolates are shipped in to us from everywhere.  (Passing through some very hot days).  We like them to come in a styrofoam lined box (1.25-1.5" seems to be good).  Gel packs frozen to 30 degrees work really well - that slowly lowers the internal temperature of the package to the low 60's and holds it below 70 for 2 days worth of shipping (the box is lined with gel packs).  

Does that help?

I have agree with Sebastian.  We start with the closest date on anything, our concern is maintaining top quality.  After we produce our first batch we hold that back; keep that in our case and we eat them daily.  Generally we quickly find after 2-3 weeks the flavor has had a noticable drop and that's the date we put on it for ourselves.  From a safety standpoint we measure water movement to get an idea about bacterial growth.  The projections from that let us know it's reasonable that our chocolate is good for months (if not years) - but that's meaningless to us because we can tell a drop in quality much sooner.

So the short answer is we eat it.

YMMV

Hi,

Not sure what else to add, we've got a couple of stores - along with everything else we sell chocolate and do cast solid chocolate figures.  

Bart

Hello,

Subject says it all really.  I need to display chocolate and am looking to purchase a display case (or two).  If anyone has one for sale or knows of one for sale I would really appreciate it.

I have tried to use all manner of deli/refrigerated cases in the past and the results are terrible.  The chocolate display cases I currently use maintain a constant 65 temperature (the temperature of the ambient air is between 65 and 70 degrees year round); the cases we have never seem to vary by more than 1degree off 65 and the humidity stays within 2% of the target.

The chocolates look great and a week or two after we get them they taste and look great.  So I need something similar to what I have.

My problem is that the cases I have are no longer manufactured.  I've seen Federal (FCC6 is one model number) advertised but have no experience with them.  I'd also prefer to purchase used if I can.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Bart

Contact: Text or Call 217-778-8475

help the chioccolate crumbles

I might suggest a savage kettle, and use it's heat controls to maintain temper once it's achieved.  It's a batch system, but if monitored you can keep temper it in all day.  I suspect you're going to have challenges finding a continuous tempering machine to handle what's a relatively small volume.

Thanks Sebastian

I want to mold 50kg of viscous bean to bar chocolate into 70g bars on a daily basis.

I'm happy to fill them by hand, dont need a mould loader but a three cavity dosing head would be handy.

What do you think would be the best solution for this?? A continuous type machine or a batch tempering machine? What is the pro's and cons of each approach?

That's a bit of a complicated question.  It's a combination of how you store and process your raw materials,  how you store your finished goods, and ultimately what the sensory on them looks like at a given date (and what you consider to be acceptable for sensory)...

if anyone has some used coating pans that are sitting in a corner, let me know...  Im interested.

jeremy@decorchocolates.com

PMCA regularly offers a week long chocolate course, one coming up this June. 

I make pralines with an indian blend tea with hibiscus and spices and it is a hit

How do you determine Best By vs Sell By vs Expires on multi-ingredient products? For example, if the milk powder expires on a specific date, does the chocolate bar also expire on that date? And what defines "Best By"?

Beth

I suppose i could also use sorbitol but i don't know if it would be wise to use both glucose and sorbitol and what  quantity of sorbitol...

In fact i use glucose and the ganache stays creamy but i dkn't know inflyence it will have on shelf life. Thank you very much for your help.

Hi I am looking for a course that in Spanish and online?

someone can remomendar me any, I live in Honduras, Central America

Hi I am looking for a course that in Spanish and online?

someone can remomendar me any, I live in Honduras, Central America

Well proportions depend on the type of chocolate and how much cocoa butter it has, what other ingredients you use with water content, shelf life you want and how hard you want it to set.

e.g. For molded bonbons I've used up to 1/1.5 heavy cream to chocolate for milk chocolate 45% with success (and even 1.4 for dark 70%) with 3 weeks shelf life, using invert sugar to lower water activity. Of course for dipped confections It would've been impossible to do the same. You just need to get a very good understanding of the theory behind the ganache system.

If you don't want to add more cream you can indeed use cream with less fat content and try to counter water activity with inver sugar instead of cane partially or even totally (provided its not a lot). Also remember that the texture of the ganache will change too with less dairy fat in it.

Any recommendations oils brand chocolate?

I live in Honduras Central America, can take online courses in Spanish?

Mariano

Thank you for you answer i did not think about what you said but of course you're right. Some of my ganache have a too high fat content and it breaks or there is a deposit if fat at the bottom though i followed the recipe or the proportions of half the weight of the chocolate . And it is specially annoying with my caramel ganache interieur with a pinch of salt. I will appreciate any insight from more experienced chocolatiers thank you

It is technically possible to use a 15% cream, but you have to consider that you are actually using way more water in your ganache and that would impact seriously in the shelf life.

What problem are you experiencing? Maybe there is another way to solve it.

Have you considered starting with powdered milk (NFDM), and adding butter and water to reconstitute it, but to a lower level of moisture than you'd have with your standard fluid milk to reduce the time needed for moisture removal?

What we normally do is put our boxes in ziplock bags and transport them in a cooler. During very hot days we put blue ice bags in the cooler too (but outside the ziplocks obviously).

No, the stand is there to keep the stirrer from acting like a lid. When the stirrer was resting on the cooker, the caramel quickly boiled over. With it raised up a bit, the water evaporates faster and helps prevent boilover.

The spindle is in contact with the pot, however the stirring blades are 1/16" to 1/8" inch from the bottom of the pot. You could sand or machine the tip of the spindle to reduce that distance, but there would still probably be some gap.

I tried adding silicone scrapers to the blades. That experiment failed as the caramel still scorched. I found it more effective to simply use the stirrer til 218 degrees, then stir by hand. No more scorching, but I still saved time over stirring the entire time.

I've toyed with the idea of stacking two stirring machines to increase the power of the stir, and hopefully stir the caramel faster, thus helping prevent scorching, but I haven't sprung for another stirrer to test this.

If you try it out, please let us know how it goes.

Thanks,

Larry

Hi Clay. 

Any news on getting the group discussions updated? In my opinion, they're almost useless now, since there's no way to easily see when a thread was last updated.

Also, the search results issue I mentioned in my 3/12/15 post is still happening.

Thanks,
Ben

@larry2 It looks as though you're using a stand to hang the stirrer above your pot.  Does this help with the issue of blades missing the bottom of the pot, (read in Amazon reviews ) or was this constructed for another reason?

Thanks!

Hello again, Kerry.  Someone in another thread recommended Bubble Wrap bags.  What type of insulated bags do you use, and who Brands them for you?  Also, the small ice packs you referred to - not sure what they are.  Thanks again for the help.  John

Thanks Kerry.  I'll try that.  John

Get some little insulated bags with your branding on them - have the really tiny little ice packs available.  

I'm about to have to replace another motor since originally posting this. (I think I have replaced one in between that time)... We since added a Chocovision Revolution 3Z to the shop and it has some design flaws as well... Why would anyone think that plastic is a good material for something in an area (on the machine) where tension, heat, and constant movement are all happening all the time?! We've had to send it back for repair and haven't even had it a year. I sent a letter with some suggestions for fixing the issue. I'm sure they'll assume I'm a smart a$$.

I'm still on the lookout for a replacement motor for the ACMC. It's a small enough temperer for our white chocolate needs, and while I don't mind paying a bit for upkeep/maintenance for the machine; I'd rather have to do it less.

Thanks!

(Oh, thanks Chirag-Bhatia, but I couldn't get the link above to open)

Hi!  New to TCL, but have been digging through the forums for burried treasure for several months.  I'm weeks away from "opening the doors" to a confectionary, with intentions of selling online and to local shops wholesale... for now.

The first retailer I'll be working with owns a candy store, and keeps some chocolates and many novelty candies.  My concern is that while she knows to keep her shop from boiling in the summer, she's also trying to avoid an astronomical electric bill.  This is fine for candies that will be eaten immediately, but I've literally walked a block from store to car and experienced chocolate smudges on the package. No bueno for gifts or savoring, and if I weren't trying to get my foot in the door, I'd say it's inhospitable for my products.

On my side, they'll will be kept at about 55-60 F until I personally deliver them to her shop, weekly.  My question is this:  What can I personally do to give my products the best chance during transport and storage at the retail destination?

I'm thinking of transporting in a cooler with dry ice or similar, and wrapping the kraft boxes in bags to avoid contact.  Inside the kraft box may be a layer with silica packs to help with humidity, and care instructions label outside.  Any other/better ideas on how to keep my precious works from turning into gloop?

Thanks!

https://www.thechocolatelife.com/clay/forums/tech-help-tips-tricks-techniques/4705/summer-shipping-tips-tricks