It is almost certainly the beans. W/o knowing the specifics of your formula, process, and most importantly - how the beans were made - it's going to be difficult to determine exactly what's going on. What do you know about the origin and processing of the cocoa beans themselves?
Hey guys
I'm having an issue with my last few batches of bean-to-bar, made in a small 1.5kg Premier grinder. I had an issue with one batch of beans that produced a very intense bitter/astringent taste in the chocolate. I'm fairly sure this came from a bad batch of beans, although I didn't notice anything after roasting, so maybe just some of the beans in the batch were affected.
My issue now is that subsequent batches made from entirely different bean sources also have this bitterness, although to a lesser extent. Has anyone ever encoutnered an issue like this before, where a strong flavour can carry over to a different batch, even after thoroughly cleaning the grinder?
Alternatively, could it be an issue with the grinder itself? Perhaps grinding stone into the chocolate? I'm at a bit of a loss at the moment as the grinder does seem to be the only common factor between batches and I am (as far as I can tell) cleaning it thoroughly between each use.
Here's what those tests from last night looked like this morning. Much clearer that preseeding was badly out of temper.
I'm awaiting delivery of some bean to bar hopefully 'badly out of temper' chocolate to continue my experiments.
Both are based on a similar concept but without taking one apart I wouldn't be able to say if theirs uses the same technology. In terms of capacity there is not much to choose between them.
Ours does use multiple containers - you can continue to use generated seed from one container while you are waiting for the seed to generate in another container - rather than adding cocoa butter straight in to the already generated seed. And you can actually wash the containers after you have emptied them. Theirs has all the cocoa butter in one vessel and I'm not sure if you can take it apart for cleaning.
seems like this is the same technology as the "Magic Temper" Device from CCMS, but smaller and cheaper(?)
Doing some experiments today using chocolate as the seed rather than cocoa butter (for the bean to bar people who don't want to add any additonal cocoa butter). Makes a very stiff paste. Preliminary results seem positive. Bugger to stir in though.
. 
My partner is flying off to Delaware (from the UK) at the end of May and while she is on holiday she wants to hunt for some new chocolate moulds as well.
it would be good if we could find some mold suppliers that have a good range of products that she could either go and see, or get shipped to her quickly so she can bring them back with her.
If anyone has some recommendations it would be great.
I'll 'third' Sebastian's suggestion not to formulate using liquid milk even in 'condensed form'! As he states there's a high risk of microbial issues.
It's a good way to get folks sick given the near impossible set up for 'in place' sanitation of the equipment you are apparently using. I hope and assume you're not planning on selling this 'product'?
p.s. I haven't seen the Glass and a half in every bar of Dairy Milk tag line used for years.... I thought Cadbury's UK had dropped way back it as it isn't technically true....The UK trade descriptions Act require truefully accurate language, they use proprietary Milk solids (Milk crumb) as most of the big boys do.
Please don't take offence, but the old saying " A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" comes to mind here
MJ
I will second that suggestion.
Thanks Sebastian.
Thought I'd post a picture of some chocolate I tempered using the EZtemper - on the left I dipped chocolate that had been cooled to 33.5, on the right - the same chocolate from about 1 minute later after pre-crystallizing with 1% generated seed.
Of course tempering chocolate is a bonus - it's real super power is tempering ganaches, allowing you to cut them within hours instead of days.
Wish I would have seen this prior. You just missed an amazing weekend with confectioners here in Washington DC. ( http://forums.egullet.org/topic/151277-report-eg-chocolate-and-confectionery-workshop-2015/)
we hold these conferences each year, suggest you follow the thread and join us next year. This year we had the amazing Mark Heim with us for three days. Anything you needed to know, Mark was there to help.
I'm pretty thrilled that it finally got off the ground - I've been using my prototypes to temper chocolate, ganaches, meltaways and coloured cocoa butters for almost a year now. Thought it would never be finished!
Seems only fair that artisan chocolatiers get to take advantage of the same technology that industry uses to pre-crystallize but on a small scale.
Full disclosure - Ruth took one home and I hope she'll post here what she is doing with it. Funny - I've been keeping it a secret so long that I've been hesitant to post about it - but I guess I should get some pictures of what it can do here as well.
Dang, thanks.
Still taking advice on fridge and Air-4
If you're asking me what's the best production setup for a high viscosity chocolate, i'd probably suggest something that's in a price range that'll send you screaming. I always advocate trying equipment before buying it - i can understand how you may not want/be able to travel to china to do so - perhaps they'd be willing to put you in contact with other customers of theirs who might be willing to lease you a unit they've purchased to take it for a test run? It's hard to talk generics, because my idea of 'high viscosity' may be different than yours, and i not everyone has a haake viscometer or a brookfield to get a numerical value of it.
Ack i just noticed i made a mistake in my previous post - i said it was not good for low viscosity formulations - that's wrong, it is. it's not great for HIGH viscosity formulations. egads.
Im actually working with a high viscosity formula. From your experience what has been the best comapny to work with? As I won't be able to test any machine, what do you think will be the safest bet?
The company im looking at makes chonces for Hersheys and a few other large scale producers. There is also a video on their site of them using it.
Thanks for your help!
Many. They're generally known as universal or mcyntinre type conches. My experience is that they're difficult to consistently achieve sub 20um particle sizes. Every so often you'll need to resurface the inside of them as the gap between the rotors and the wall will abrade away over time. They can be a decent piece of equipment. Not good for low viscosity formulations.
I just returned from a week in D. C. at a chocolate workshop. We had the opportunity of learning from Mark Heim. What vast knowledge he has. One of the new toys we played with is the EZtemper. It is a seed generator for cocoa butter. It maintains CB at a constant 33.7C. It was amazing to see this in action. I have never seen chocolate tempered any faster. You just cool your chocolate to working temp, and stir in .5-1% CB seed and stir a few times. Wait a minute and your chocolate is ready to go. We also made ganache and added it at the end. Ganaches set up in a few hours, even white chocolate ones. We also made gianduja and meltaways. This is new technology to me and I think it will change the way many of us play with chocolate.
I wish I could but the company is way in China. Have you ever worked with another similar conche from another company?
Thanks!
How do I link to an album of pictures that I took at Potomac so I can add them here?
Really happy to become a member of The Chocolate Life
I am Lucy - Owner of Bah Humbugs
We opened back in May 2004 with the idea of creating a Sweet Emporium for Retro Sweets fanatics after several nostalgic conversations about sweets. Within a month we'd found premises, located all the sweets we could find, and opened the door to our new sweet shop in Masham , in the Yorkshire Dales.
The business is run by myself and a team of fabulous people who all work hard spreading the Bah Humbugs Sweet message.As well as the huge number of different sweets we have, we also stock a fab range of SWEET HAMPERS and SWEET GIFTS. Today we have one of the largest selections of sweets online and we send sweets all over the world. Bah Humbugs has become renowned in the confectionery world as having one of the largest selections of liquorices in the UK with over 50 different different varieties to choose from. We also provide a range of sweet gifts, childrens sweet party bags , a sweet subscription scheme, wedding favours and a mobile sweet shop for events.
If you're in Yorkshire, please do pop in to see us. There's plenty of things to do in and around Masham, otherwise take a browse through our online shop for a superb selection of Retro Sweets, Sweet Hampers and other tasty treats.
Thanks for your custom, we hope you enjoy the Bah Humbugs experience!!
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Hi everybody,
I'm looking for a low viscosity dark and milk chocolate to be used for enrobing candy bars and also for polycarbonate molds. Something that would produce a nice thin shell. If anyone can recommend some brands and where it can be purchased, it would be very much appreciated! Thanks in advance!
Quinn
Thanks Ruth and Kerry! I had a great time meeting all of you! Thanks Ruth for setting it up!
My strong advice would be to not continue on this path for safety reasons.
I do have a little update on my first experiment. After checking on the grinder for the fourth time last night, I started messing with the fastening nut and ended up seizing up the grinder. I removed some of the mixture, tried again, did this a few times until it started spinning again. While watching and waiting for more stops, I decided to use my old, modified grinder, with the lid that has some air ports in it. I put some of the mixture in that one.
This morning the grinder without air circulation had ganache and cocoa butter, separated. The other grinder with air ports had an integrated mixture. I think it was able to evaporate the excess moisture. I was able to temper the mixture and just shared some of the results with family. The chocolate was better than powdered milk, milk chocolate, but still a little darker than people are used to. Right now I am using the air flow grinder to pound out another batch, but with more milk.
I read about crumb, also read some patents on how it is made. As you stated, it is usually made with a vacuum type evaporator. On my second experiment, I made some condensed milk, got the temp up to 115C, added some cocoa liquor, cocoa butter and it's in the grinder now.
Take very good care to thoroughly clean that grinder out, and sanitize it. remember you've put fluid milk into an environment with LOTS of holes, crevices, and cracks - and lots of food (sugar, protein) for bacteria to eat. Would hate to see you have a microbiological nightmare on your hands.
Thanks!
Milk crumb, that's a term you don't hear too often, never, in my case. That's a whole new variable. Will look into it.
And yes, despite my best efforts, it looks like my wet grinder has 8 lbs of ganache in it. :-(
Many thanks for the new insight!
A suggestion, if i may - if you have the ability of taking the unit for a 'test drive' - ie putting your raw materials into it and having it complete a process cycle before you buy - i always recommend doing so. While i have no direct experience with this unit nor this manufacturer, it's not uncommon for equipment mfrs to overstate the capabilities of their equipment, and often times equipment from that part of the world may have more variability than one might expect from unit to unit. If possible, always a good idea to try before you buy to ensure it's really what you want.
Ok, what you're talking about here is something called milk crumb. It's a very difficult process, and there's a lot of trade secret info around it.
Obviously when you start with fluid milk, you've got a scenario where there's a lot of water, and oil (cocoa butter) and water don't mix. You need a way to get rid of the moisture in the fluid milk. That process almost always involves a vacuum and heat. Starting with sweetened condensed milk is often preferred because there's high solids (less moisture), and higher sugares, which caramalize during the process. You'll need to get your moisture down to single digit %'s. Because you're working with a fluid dairy product, many countries will have stricter requirements as a result - the fluid dairy industry is highly regulated for safety reasons - there's an aweful lot that can go wrong microbiologically if you don't get it right.
I'd absolutely, unequiviocally not recommend this approach as a do it your selfer. Rather, there's a series of manufacturers who produce crumb for resale. All of them use different process and thus achieve different results. You could try Fazer in Finland. Cargill in the US may be willing to sell some of the crumb they make in Canada, and Fonterra has a line of co-spray dried milk powders/fructose that is crumblike in flavor in one of their New Zealand facilities.
OK, self answer after having tried an experiment this morning that I do not think will turn out well, super-saturate sugar into evaporated milk before adding it to the chocolate, maybe after heating milk and sugar to 230'ish. I read that Cadbury at least partially caramelizes their sugar before making chocolate, so I think this is one of the factors. I do make caramel fillings for our chocolate using evaporated milk and sugar.
I was thinking maybe my wet grinder would drive off the excess moisture from the milk, which I've seen happen with humid cocoa nibs. It might be too much to hope for from a whole can of evaporated milk. When I first poured it into the chocolate liqueur, it seized up and I had to stop the machine. I've made that mistake before making chocolate syrup, the solid cocoa absorbs the moisture and turns into a thick paste.
Going to try super saturation next, but will try to salvage the current mess first...or fatten up our pig. :)
Hi Rahman,
If you have some way to send it to us, I'd be glad to try it. How much can you send? With a 5 lbs, I can make a very small batch of dark.
I am one of the lucky ones who was there. Thanks so much Ben!
Several Chocolate Lifer's are in the Washington, DC area for the annual http://forums.egullet.org/topic/151277-report-eg-chocolate-and-confectionery-workshop-2015/
We took the opportunity yesterday afternoon to visit with Ben Rasmussen of Potomac Chocolate and have a tour of his compact basement chocolate factory. The man is a powerhouse! And a delight to meet.
I can't figure out how to add a link to a Gallery here - but if you look for the photo gallery 'Potomac Chocolate' you will find some pictures I took of Ben's amazing setup.
Just one teaser photo - the roasting basket from his roaster that he had built from a convection oven.
hi i am rahman i like to send my indian cocoa single yard 70% dark chocolate to taste and give me a feed back the experts in chocolate tasting kindly guide me
Does anybody have any idea how you might make a milk chocolate using real milk, maybe even just evaporated milk? We've never been overly impressed with the recipes we've found online using powdered milk. Cadbury, in the UK, makes a superior milk chocolate that it is hard to stop eating. As a matter of fact, many places in the UK make superior milk chocolate. In the US, Cadbury chocolate is made by Hershey's, and it is not UK quality. You can by tasting, or by reading the ingredient label.
Cadbury UK Milk Chocolate
Ingredients: Full Cream Milk, Sugar, Cocoa Butter, Cocoa Mass, Milk Solids, Emulsifiers (Soy Lecithin, 476), Flavours.
"A glass and a half of milk in every half pound bar of chocolate"
Cadbury/Hershey's US Milk Chocolate
I do understand, and have heard, that getting liquid into chocolate means you cannot make it set/mold in solid form. I don't know if that's just water if it applies to any liquid.
Has anyone here ever used real milk, or canned milk, to make milk chocolate? Any tips on this?
I've checked my spam logs and don't see any chatter but I'm not getting any updates when people post to groups I'm a member of. I'd like to be more active but its usually as others are active or seeking help. Hard for me to pay attention otherwise. I checked the settings and its supposed to email out updates--but I'm just not sure. I'll add each group to my old rss reader but I don't pay attention as much to that any more as well.
I will add that im in British Columbia, Canada.
The conch costs USD4560.00 plus 1,200 shipping.
The air-4 is 7990$ + 185$ for crating + Shipping (Budget 350$)
So the time has come for me to step up production. I have been using the ECGC 12-SL from Cocoatown and tempering by hand. The bars have been great but the machine is not fit for this leve of production. I suggest working with another company than Cocoatown as the owner was completely useless in helping me solve the problems of extreme wear issues with plastic and metal wearing into the chocolate. The machine helped me get to this point and for that im grateful, its just a little unfortunate that finding a melange this size of good quality is so hard to find.
I am currently looking at stepping up to the JMJ40 from Mantte Industrial Co. out of China. It holds 40 L (about 60 lbs? is that about correct?)
WIth that I need a tempering machine to match that with the Air-4 from Perfect Equpment wiath a 90 lbs holding capacity.
I will also now need a fridge to aid in the cooling, im still taking imput for the best quality/cheapest fridge made for chocolate production.
For this I will be constructing a kitchen here on the land to meet this huge increase in volume. I am excited to make the leap and would love any imput on these peices of equipment, the companies and potentially anything you think I might need extra that I would consider vital once I step up.
Many thanks for any advice!
Evan
looking forward to hearing how it goes!
I've come to realize that's why a lot of people caution me, even vendors of hammer mills, on grinding cocoa. What our screw press churns out is pretty dry and I have run it in our grinder several times. The grinder does get too hot to touch, but the powder always comes out as powder, grainy, but powdery nonetheless, not pasty.
Otherwise, thanks for the vote of confidence. I think it will probably be slow as well, but we are really small scale right now anyway. For the brownie mixes we make, we do not need a 400 mesh powder. For mixing into ice cream, I think a 400 mesh powder will suffice based on what I've seen with earlier experiments. The ice cream is brown, but it has grains. We just have to keep the larger grains out.
Maybe someday we'll get a hammer mill, but I am hoping the investment will make obvious sense by then.
Hi Sebastian.
Sorry no I dont have a way of measuring it. Its thick. No emulsifier.
Cheers
When you say 'viscous chocolate' - do you have any measurements to indicate what that means?
