Forum Activity for @Jeremy Rushane

Sounds like a fun project!!!!  Let us know what system you come up with...

It looks custom. Most packaging is. Depending on how it's closed, it could be an affordable alternative to a traditional box. Do you have a sample box?

I'm looking for a package with similar form factor to the newest one from Manoa. Do you know who makes it?

Hi Sebastian,

I'm interested into hearing more about the job offer at hand. Shoot me an email...gustaf@chefdepartienyc.com

Sincerely

Gustaf

Which one did you go with? Can you provide a link?

Hi All,

As many of you will already know, producing short run bar boxes can be an expensive endeavor. While 1000 may seem like a lot of bar boxes, it's only the number 1 to print shops, and more importantly, to the processes involved in printing, folding and gluing boxes. I'd be interested (as would a fellow Chocolate Life member) in hearing from others who may wish to collaborate on a group run of bar boxes.

Be well!

Marc

I found a model for about $350 at simplypumps - it's hard navigating the different models online and they seemed the most approachable for beginners. I've had a 3D printer but don't like the look of the material and I'd also need to buy a motor; I prefer having something that should be resellable.

What information did you find about peristaltic pumps? I was hoping to find/buy a cheap one but no luck. Is printing one the best way to go?

A friend of mine is in need of someone with chocolate making experience for a position in Dubai.  If you're interested, pls contact me directly through the board messaging system and we'll see if you might be a good fit for him.

Thanks

-Seb

Ah, thank you! For some reason this didn't show up in my search results.

You can try this thread: https://www.thechocolatelife.com/clay/group_discuss/1267/diy-depositor-is-it-possible

The main reason I was considering a full-automatic tempering machine was to have a dosing pump. I then found Hilliard makes one that which costs significantly less, though still around USD$5,000.

Researching various pumps it seems that peristaltic pumps could be a very affordable way to hack it together. There are even a few people 3D printing pump heads through which you could put a food-grade hose.

Are there other cheap options I should be considering? Has anyone gone the DIY route and have advice to share?

James,  As your in the UK, I think you will find CO2 in a cylinder easier to find than 'dry ice' (solid CO2 which needs to be stored at -70C) although note you can make slugs of solid CO2 from a cylinder that's fitted with a dip tube using a special draw off device that traps the liquid as it is flowing from the cylinder.... Don't know how expensive these are, it's years since I last used one in the laboratory.

 Suggest you get friendly with a local Pub owner and 'borrow' a cylinder of CO2 and the regulator,  pipe the gas into the bag at say 2 - 3 psi and allow it to 'escape' for a while, once you have flushed the air out of the bag, seal it up and cross fingers it will be good to go.   If you can't get a loaner,  welding supply firms can hook you up with CO2  (your want disteller's grade really - same as used to serve beer, some CO2  is a mix intended for welding only not food)  FYI: Firms like MachineMart sell cheap cylinder regulators and fittings..Again you need to reduce the pressure from the cylinder's  hundreds of pounds per sq inch to a 'gentle purging wiff'....  PLEASE NOTE BELOW

SAFETY:  Be sure to use a stand or chain the cylinder to the wall if it falls it can break off the top and turn into a lethal heavy weapon.   CO2 is an asphyxiant in a closed space and will displace the breathable air, use only in a well ventilated space.    The UK H&S regs may even require a  gas monitor to be installed in a space that contains gassed up bags?     Please use prudence and common sense.

Mark

Thanks, the 300 to 500 an hour is for smaller pieces, like hearts in red and pink foil, or other smaller pieces usually less than 2" x 2".

I just place bars on the foil and then fold up and over. Usually can do about 4 a minute that way. Do you use this technique for bars? Certainly sounds interesting and I like your numbers, there is no way I can wrap 300 an hour, that usually takes me all day.

Hello all,

I am wondering what others are doing to wrap solid pieces of chocolate in foil. Foil wrapping machines are so expensive (around $30k for a used one) and are HUGE.

Currently, we have been having our employees wrap by hand. We get pre-cut foil squares and deal them out, like a deck of cards, onto a 1" foam mat (like foam used as a seat cushion). We then place the chocolate on the foil squares and press down on the chocolate so it sinks into the foam. This causes the foil to form around the chocolate and "pup up" and form around the edge of the shape we are wrapping. It is then wrapped the rest of the way around.

Using this method we can wrap anywhere from 300 to 500 pieces an hour (depending on the shape/size of the piece) per person.

Wash, rinse and repeat...

I just wanted to see if anyone else has any tips or techniques to share or had developed any tools to help move things along.

Thanks!

Sorry i posted that before properly reading Jordans earlier post.

I will contact my main supplier in Nicaragua and see if they can sort out some of these grainpro bags as they sound like a step in the right direction.

Also i will look into getting the one that CO2 can be used with for treating my current stock of cocoa beans and give it a test.

Will report back with my findings.

Some brilliant suggestions here, and I am glad it has created a discussion about an issue that will unfortunately likely affect us all at some point, and perhaps a topic which producers don't like to discuss in the open (just from my experience in trying to find info on these moths). 

This is the first I have heard of the grain-pro bags, and they sound great. But like Sebastian I too would be concerned about high moisture trapped in the sealed bag, and essentially 'sweating' in warmer high humidity environments.

I unfortunately do not have access to a large cool room in which to store my beans and so stop the hatching of the eggs. Mine are stored in my workshop and the temp can range anywhere from 10-25 degrees centigrade depending on our unreliable british weather. So I am certainly interested in any other way to prevent or combat a moth infestation. 

So far the CO2 method seems most efficient and organic, but what's the safest way to go about treating the beans in this way?

Hi Tony we know longer have it. I am updating the list. Thanks for your interest however. 

I'm looking STEEL COATING PANS to cover walnuts or almonds with chocolate. Please send information on new machines or used!
thanks

Hello I am interested in the Savage Bros 50 lbs tank, please e-mail me pics, specs and price at: tony.najjar@xocolla.com

Just to report back for anyone interested. I did a small batch 1.5Kg of 70% Dark. I tried the sugar method and blended the sugar and lavender flowers in a food processor prior to putting them in the melanger and it came out fantastic for a first time trial. The lavender was a little light for my tastes so I will be upping it slightly, but overall it is a good start. Thanks Clay for the suggestion.

I'm a skeptic by nature (aren't all scientists?) - sounds like there's an excellent opportunity here to do some controlled tests on a lot of beans, mix them up, ship half in GP bags, and the other half conventionally.  Toss in some data loggers, and count what crawls out of each test.  

Lots of enterprising small batch folks here who are ordering beans. I'll help you construct the study.  Who wants to do a ship test in the name of science!  One caveat is the beans would need to disembark from a port such that the transit carries it across the equator, preferrably during winter in the northern hemisphere.

Hello Jordan.

I was about to post a question for Sebastain regarding the 'industry view' of optimal moisture content for fermented raw cacao shipments prior to transit, but it looks like you have answered it?  What's high moisture content in this context?    Of course it's easy to check the moisture content of dried beans before they are sealed up, but doesn't the relative humidity (typically hot and steamy in Cacao growing areas...) have a greater contribution to the water vapour within the enclosure?  Surely it's largely this water vapour from the air spaces around the beans which might condense and or allow mold to develop, hence Sebastain's concern?   Is there an extra step to filling and sealing these sacks, i.e. something like doing it in a low relative humidity space?

The zipper bags do sound like a good way for us small craft scale chocolate makers to protect our warehouse stock, particularly in shared space where other clients aren't organic and are exposing their wares to chemical fumigation, other pest control chemicals or storing sacks of onions next to the cacao as you point out.

Mark

Thanks, Sebastian.  I understand your skepticism.  First, you're right: the GrainPro bag cannot have any holes in it for hermetic to work properly. However, I haven't found this to be a major issue.  The hermetic liner goes inside a traditional jute or polypropylene bag, which serves as a protective barrier.  Hooks are the biggest threat - at the port - but we have a sticker that says "NO HOOKS" to place on the outside of the jute bag.  It's important for the cacao grower/exporter - and the laborers who stuff the containers - to be properly trained (ie DON'T USE HOOKS!). (The Green Room is a specialty coffee warehouse in south Seatle that does not use hooks in off-loading containers.  It's a beautiful sight.)  

The specialty coffee sector widely uses hermetic and holes/damage have not been a major issue.   The other key, to your question, is storing hermetically at the correct moisture content, ie 6-7%.  High MC cacao should not be stored/shipped hermetically.  For shipping, I recommend the twist-n-tie bag.  For simple warehouse storage, the zipper bag is easy to use.  Infestation is a major issue for cocoa along the entire supply chain and we simply are over-fumigating, over-fogging and over-treating with chemical pesticides when we generally don't need to.  (This is true in the coffee and grain sector, as well).   I can design a study with you, if you want to try it yourself. There's also a number of current cacao exporters/chocolate makers (with whom I can put you in contact) who can share their own experience using hermetic.   And, again, as a reminder, for infestation control, hermetic is most effective at 20 degrees celsius and above (which is always the temp at origin)...

Thanks Jordan.  I admit i'm still skeptical simply due to kinetics.  I understand the concept.  The biomass of infestation is always going to be very low on a % basis, and the metabolic oxidative draw down rate due to respiration from larvae is incredibly small, and is further predicated on no holes in the material - which is difficult to guarantee at origin. Eggs wil be even lower.   Flushing with CO2 will certainly help displace the resident oxygen.  I'd love to have some controlled experimental data to review (or better yet have conducted it myself - it's just the way i'm built). I'd worry about condensation in the bag as there's no place for the moisture to go if it's sealed that tightly, leading to mold. I'm probably most skeptical as i've been doing this for a very long time at a huge scale, and have never seen it.  That's certainly not to say i've seen everything, and i always love finding new ways of doing things - but at first blush i do remain skeptical.

Prove me wrong so i can learn!

Clay...in regards to "the new findings" of 10 (and more) varieties (Amelonado, Contamana, Criollo, Curaray, Guiana, Iquitos,Maraňón, Nanay, Nacional, and Purús) should one add these in as well on a educational layman level or is it way to much information to handle?

But where do the forastero and the trinitario "varieties" fit into this? I'm just trying to understand this myself

Sincerely

Gustaf

Well put Clay!

I'm not looking to be "spoon fed." I thought this was a good forum to send out feelers. I'm more than happy to share!

The chocolatiers I've met thus far have been very welcoming, warm, friendly, and helpful, which is a huge reason I decided to go down this path. I've also spoken with some people who have decided to step away, so getting different people's perspective is always welcomed.

Hello, is this machine still available?

[quote="annalynn"] Thanks! And, please feel free to keep them coming. I'm learning so much.

Two way street!     How about coming back in a while and sharing what you have learnt?  Or are you really just expecting to get spoon fed? (free consulting)   Think you will find several expert folks here happy to answer some questions, but few are likely willing to dish all their knowledge and secrets gained from training, study and time in the trenches.  

Thanks! And, please feel free to keep them coming. I'm learning so much.

California like most States doesn't allow dairy containing foods unless prepared in a commercial facility and refrigerated as needed.  It's technically a slight grey area from a food microbiology position, but nearly all simple dairy + chocolate ganache formulations will have a Water Activity (aW) >0.85 which puts them firmly as 'potentially hazardous foods' (PHF) as described in the Federal and most State food regulations (the later typically adopt the Federal rules as State code) 

We chocolatiers often tweak recipes to reduce aW in an effort increase shelf life without adverse effects on favour/texture.   Chocolate ganache with an aW <0.7 made in sanitary conditions stored at 12C can last at least 8 weeks or longer, as most spoilage organisms and more importantly pathogenic bacteria don't grow under these conditions. 

However, the food safety regulations only consider that at an aW >0.85 both food spoiling microrganisms and any pathogenic bacteria present can and will grow if the product is held at room temp during it's shelf life, providing a significant risk of food born illness. Dairy including fresh milk, cream even if UHT are regarded as high risk components in filled chocolates, hence not allowed in Cottage / home produced products.

Caramel, toffee, dipped marshmallows, dried fruit, nuts, and fondant will have an aW <0.7 or lower as does a typical chocolate bar.... Thus they  are considered low(er) risk (non-PHF) and often allowed to be made and sold outside of commercially regulated food production facilities i.e.  Cottage / Home producers.

I also note the California home food rule doesn't require liability insurance for producers of 'home foods'.  Risky,  one bad batch of ganache and a food born illness claim could leave you living in a tent as you have to sell your home to cover the legal bill! 

My tips for you:

1. Find a good clean commercial kitchen, you will need a space you can use for production with approved materials, and also store the finished goods there.

2. Get trained / upto speed regarding the food safety aspects and regulation.   Review City, County, State rules and if you do any internet sales also the Federal rules as they will also impact your business.

3. Take out a decent liability insurance policy, which is typically needed in any event if you want to sell at farmer's markets or other public events and totally required if you do 'indirect sales' (no retailer or broker will take your produce without this)

Making the stuff is the relatively easy part, turning the hobby or interest into a legal, safe and viable business takes real effort and expertise.

Good Luck

I don't think I'll be leaving the Bay anytime soon. It's home and where my family is.

Glad you are thinking of various possibilities.  I agree that renting space in a professional kitchen and making chocolates there is a major pain.  Be sure and check out the Mass. cottage food laws before you consider moving.  I lived in Boston for 50 years--there is a lot of regulation there.

Thanks, @jim-dutton. I managed to find someone who is willing to share her process with me and she hires a kitchen. I found another person and I'm waiting to hear from them because it seems they produce truffles (with cream) from their home. Hiring a kitchen by myself seems so cumbersome, especially when you have to make a ganache, have to let it set, etc...

I also have another chocolatier friend who is trying to convince me to move to Boston. I'm not sure I want to go that route. Yet?

Hello Jordan,

Thanks for the very useful clarification regarding the use of GrainPro bags to both protect and treat cacao.  I'd planned to use 32 gallon bins for bulk storage, (bug and mouse proof) guess I'll need to contact you to explore using the GrainPro 69KG sacks /cocoon.   

Given the cost of 1/2 MT of single origin cacao it sounds like a very worthwhile investment, organic / fairtrade and then bombed with chemicals doesn't really cut it on the marketing front!

However, as CO2 is the primary greenhouse gas accounting for around 80% of the United States greenhouse emissions don't think I'm going to mention its use either.  Guess I could plant a tree for everytime I gas up a bag to offset?

Sebastian, thanks for your thoughtful responses to the above - and a clarification on GrainPro bags.  With infested cocoa, in a high temperature/high humidity environment, GrainPro's hermetic bags WILL kill the insects through suffocation.  This is how it works:  the insects (and the cocoa) respire, emitting carbon dioxide, and taking in the oxygen. Once the O2 level drops below 3%, all insects die. In other words, the hermetic GrainPro bag creates a "Modified Atmosphere" - low O2, high CO2 - which is lethal to insects (and all life). Depending on the level of infestation (which serves as the "engine"), the temperature and the humidity - a 100% insect kill can take from 1-2 weeks in a 69 KG GrainPro SuperGrainbag (SGB).  It's critical not to open the SGB (allowing more oxgyen in) during this time. 

In a colder, more temperate environment, where insect activity is reduced, there is a NON-CHEMICAL way to fumigate cocoa: Flushing with CO2 (a naturally ocurring gas). Here's how:  use a GrainPro Cocoon GHF or GrainPro Cocoon Indoor (see GrainPro website), both of which come equipped with an inlet port to enable flushing with liquid CO2.   This is an organic method of infestation control - not requiring chemical pesticides.  This CO2 flushing method vastly speeds up the insect kill - and works in temperate climates/cold warehouses.

Finally, to James initial question/issue, James should request his cocoa beans in hermetic GrainPro 69KG SuperGrainbags FROM ORIGIN (ie, Venezuela), to protect the beans in shipment, stop cross-contamination (onions, ayone?) or cross-infestation - and kill off any insects that might already be in the bag (or container) during the multi-week shipment from Venezuela to US ports.   This is the only way to control infestation without using an of the chemical 'ides...

Hope this helps.

It looks as if the California law is stricter than the one we have in Virginia.  Instead of "Candy, such as brittle and toffee," ours just says "candy."  Another part of the list here allows for "baked goods that do not require time or temperature control after preparation"--showing the intent of the law to protect the public from items such as custards that spoil easily.  It would seem that you could make nut centers (such as gianduja), caramel, fondant-based fillings, probably butter ganaches (which opens up lots of possibilities), but nothing with cream (which, of course, eliminates most ganaches).

By the way, I misspelled the website that I mentioned previously; it's forrager.com .  And here is another site I found that has "fleshed out" the California regulations a little more:  http://www.theselc.org/cottage_food_law_faq -- it has a link to a form where you can request an addition to the list of approved foods (you could specifically ask about cream ganaches).

Please see attached file; I'd love to get your interpretation.

Cottage Food Information.pdf - 87KB

Thanks, Jim. I'll definitely check it out. I was speaking with an employee with the county to obtain my permit and she provided me with the information.