If you want to use inclusions, this works with the Selmi EX models with removable screw. We can add pieces up to 2 mm and can mix and do the moulding of tables, eggs, etc. We hope to be on the next Philadelphia Candy show to show you this.
regards and thanks for the comments! Tom
Dear Antonino,
I happed to see your message in this forum. I don't think that you can compare the FBM machines with the Selmi machinery. The tempering in the FBM machine is done totally different than in the FBM machine, which will result in different result after a while work. If you make the investment for an automatic tempering machine, please think twice because we speak about a lot of money. You can send a mail to me on t.bauweraerts@selmi-group.it as I am the export manager of Selmi and I hope to be able to change your mind on this and to let you understand that Selmi is very good and reliable with a very good service worldwide. Thanks, Tom
Hi Antonio. I am a former South African. Have lived in the USA since 1976. Started my business in 1985 out of my NYC apt. Am self-taught and have a vast knowledge about the industry.
Would love to know more about you and your chocolate business. You can email me directly at choclinda@aol.com
Lekker bly,
Linda G.
I have a Selmi - and I love it! We've had other machines, but there is nothing like the Selmi. It truly does make everything easier. it stays in temper all day. Great for molding and enrobing. Yes... I can't imagine trying to fix it, but the people at Tomric are always there to help you. We did have a problem once, turned out to be "human" error, but Brian/Sean walked us through it over the phone in 15 minutes. OK - it is much prettier than the other machines and I say you get what you pay for. Hope this helps a bit,
~ Pamela
I am familiar with both the Pomati and Gami - I would recommend the Selmi and not just b/c the US distributor for Selmi is a client.
brian
Brian & Jeff,
Have you ever looked into the Gami machines? They seem simular to the Selmi, but a few thousand less, but with very simular features.
I will admit that the ability to remove the auger on the Selmi PlusEX is temptingbecause I only want one machine at this time and changing chocolate is of concern. <(*_*)>
David
not sure cause i'm South Africa , but i can give you the direct contact emailfbm@boscolo.it, Mr. Roveda.
Not sure if i'm allowed to post email addresses here, so just in case i apologize in advance.
I agree with Brian. There are apples and apples...
20 years ago cars had manual windows, now they come all with electric windows. what is the difference? It makes life easier!
I won't buy a Selmi 'cause the price, but we are in the process to order a Fbm/Boscolo Unica.
Can't wait to get to work and have the chocolate already tempered automatically, and not waste an hour to get the "old wheel" comfortable to work... time is money!
Nino
Linda.
The newest Selmi's can be purchased with a removable screw option that allow for a complete changeout of chocolate but even the olded models have a drain on the back that allow for a complete emptying of the bowl without the screw having to turn.
And yes Jeff, I do think the Selmi's "rock." Temper is consistent and constant and are rarely does ambiance change its functionality. Obviously they are not inexespensive but when looking at the equipment (or any equipment) compare apples to apples and the Selmi is functionally different that a wheel machine.
brian
Well that's absolutely true Jeff, but you also have to employ people who have experience tempering, otherwise should something go wrong with a machine, they would most likely not be able to handle it.
Hand tempering is a crucial first step in understanding and working with chocolate. One of the first tasks I do with a new employee is teach them how to hand temper the easiest and cleanest way that does not require a slab and a mess.
Linda
Hi: To reply to cheebs. Only the small table top Hilliards cooling/heating is done with light bulbs.
The larger machines use electric heating and cooling elements.
Being very mechanical I have been able to change elements when they wear out. This has only happened once in 20 years.
It also keeps it's temper perfectly throughout the day and chocolate can constantly be added to the back where it melts. As the bowl rotates, it is transfered to the front keeping a steady tempered quantity for production.
I would not be comfortable with a machine that has it's most crucial parts invisible.
Linda
When I first saw the Selmi many years ago, I didn't like the fact that you couldn't clean it. If something was accidentally dropped into the auger, how would you get it out?
Unless it has been changed, it would still be my concern. Hilliard is made in the USA. Customer service is stellar. Should a fuse need to be replaced it's simple. As mentioned above, I have had my machines for 18 years. All that needed to be replaced was a fuse. If you can change a light bulb, you can change a fuse.
The 250lb machines are set up for the addition of their conveyor from small to large.
Anyway, that's my two cents.
Thanks to everyone for puting in their two cents it is very helpful.
Selmi or simular seems to be great for production and ease of controling temper allowing mass production.
Wheel machines seem more affordable, work fine, but need more attention throughout the day.
Both machines do the same thing, but in a different way and it is up to the operator to control the quality of the temper on both. which is fine.
You have all given me names of companies I will be checking out, unless by the luck of the draw there is a used machine I run into with a price I cannot resist I am leaning toward a Selmi type, we will see.
I think another advantage of the Selmi (or similar designs, other brands we've looked at like Chocolate World or Gami make nearly identical machines) over the wheel is that you can keep feeding it with melted chocolate for a truly continuous production.
What happens is that with a wheel machine you have to temper the chocolate in the beginning and then keep it in temperature and motion so that it doesn't solidify. In the Selmi you have a 'tap' and a 'sink' (although I think they call it a tank, but it's actually open like a sink. Between those 2 is a circuit that pumps the chocolate from the sink and spits it out through the tap. Unlike in a wheel machine, the tank just contains melted chocolate, not tempered chocolate and the tempering process (cooling at a precise temperature) actually happens in the circuit between the sink and the tap: that's why you get tempered chocolate coming out of the tap, and as you use up the content of the tank you can add more chocolate pellets or more melted chocolate from a kettle. The result is much higher productivity, but the extra cost can probably only be justified if you have the quantity to match.
Hi, i have been working with Selmi and prefamac, and i can tell you that if you want to speed up your work and achieve an higher consistency, the Selmi-style machine is much better than the old wheel machine.
Tempering is achieved in no time and consistency of temper is key factor. Like you i consider Selmi a bit too expensive so i turned my eyes to another italian company, Fbm Boscolo. they build similar machine (not that stylish)and at a fraction of the Selmi price. Definitely i'll never buy a wheel machine again, it takes forever, you must keep an eye continuously on the machine and is not efficient at all (30kg capacity=15kg/h out put Vs Selmi/Fbm boscolo 25kg capacity=100kg/h output)
cheers
I have an 80# Hilliard and have loved it for 30 years
I also have 3 Savage 50# temper/melters. If I had to give one up, it would be the Hilliard. Just depends on what you are going to do with it. If you are molding, the Savage is wonderful. If hand dipping, the Hilliard is great.
I had a chance 2 weeks ago to see the Selmi in operation at Tomric. It is a wonderful machine. I have a Perfect enrober that uses a wheel to temper. As I looked with envy at the Selmi, I decided it was a Mercedes to the basic Ford of the Perfect. They both get the job done, but the Selmi does it looking so much better The mechanics of the enrober are basically the same on both machines. The Selmi tempers much easier, but for the $10,000 saved on the Perfect, I can do a little work.
Actually, like the JKV machines, with the Prefamac you temper the chocolate once and don't have to retemper throughout the day. As the chocolate thickens, you just notch up the thermostat a couple tenths of a degree to break crystal down. You can temper once and just, as mentioned by cheebs, keep an eye on it throughout the day and adjust as necessary-but not retemper. I also like that the Prefamac is built like a tank, easy to fix if necessary. I've been running mine nearly daily 2.5 years without a hitch. My Prefamac doesn't have light bulbs over the top for additional ambient heat but has ceramic heat lamps-all heat but no light.
I too agree, you're paying for more bells and whistles. As Michael Reccchiuti said to me about his Sollich enrober, the machine does nothing for you, you have to do everything for the machine. I think the final quality of your product is far more dependent on your skill as a chocolatier than anything-it's like photography, you can have the best equipment in the world and still take sucky pictures if you don't know how to use it. Or, have a lousy camera and take really great shots-if you know what you're doing. Not to say that JKVs, Hilliards, or Prefamacs are lousy-but they may require a bit more "operator" knowledge and skill.
David,
Not sure if I'll be of much help, but here are my thoughts. We opened our shop in March and are currently using 3 Hilliard machines. We bought them used and sent them back to be refurbished last year. They are doing a fine job, but they are not a Selmi. We have looked at and drooled over the Selmi for sometime now and once we can afford one we will purchase it. We have heard from several other chocolatier's that the Selmi keeps temper extremely well, can switch chocolate relatively easily and has a small footprint. The enrober is what we are really looking for because the production boost of the Selmiversus the Hilliard system is like night and day. Also the enrober is a quick dis-connect and can be stored in a small space in the upright position. I have not used a JKV but I have heard that they are harder to clean and that the wheel can sometime be problematic. Again, that is second hand info. Last, the Selmi has very good service and support where we have heard not so good reports on JKV. That's my two cents worth. Like you, would love to hear from others.
Pierre
The difference in price is more of a fundamental difference in function between the machines.
The Selmi, as a continuous tempering machine, will keep the chocolate in temper throughout the working day without needing to slowly raise your working temperatures during the day. This is achieved with a closed refrigeration/heating loop that as the name suggests, continuously de-tempers and re-tempers the chocolate.
The JKVs are wheel machines, normally with light bulbs as a heat source and forced air for cooling. They use seed chocolate for tempering, and as such will need some attention through the day. The chocolate will thicken and you will need to gradually raise your temps until it's no longer in proper temper. Then it's time to stop and re-temper.
So, you're paying that extra money for extra throughput and added convenience. On the other hand, if you're a DIY type, these machines (Selmi) are much more difficult to fix yourself.
I personally like Linda use Hilliard's machines and they are certainly up to the task. They are rugged and simple to operate and maintain (they use light bulbs/forced air too). I was lucky enough to find all my gear used for an unbeatable price. For me it was an easy choice because of the DIY aspect, since I do most of the maintenance/repair work myself.
I would highly recommend Hilliard. I have two 250lb machines. One I purchased new in 1993. And the other was a used machine that I purchased a few years later.
They are reliable, accurate and easy to use.
Cleaning is a snap. All you have to do is remove the bowl.
They hold their temper unlike some of the smaller tabletop machines.
They are also relatively quiet, again unlike the smaller table top machines.
I have tested many machines over the years and I think that Hilliard is by far the best.
If you need to add a conveyor and cooling tunnel Hillard has those as well. They are located in Mass.
If I can provide anymore info, please reply.
Linda Grishman
sweetonvermont.com
Hey, a little update on this. The last time I extracted butter, I took a break to do something else, but left the heating element on. When I came back and resumed the extraction, the butter began coming out pretty much pure (the yellow, creamy color). Also, on this run, the butter did not splatter around the housing. It actually came out the way it should. So, long story short, be sure and run the heater a good 8-10 minutes before starting.
Hi Clay,
Sorry, the main nuance that the research team is shooting for, is that the whole system be 40 lbs. or less, minus the jack, so that they can put it into a suitcase and take it with them on flights to Africa, in order to help the farmers directly.
I tried to get one of these jack systems built here in Honduras, but the simplest design would cost $450, and that was cast iron, not steel. When I did a little math, cast iron was woefully inadequate to reach pressures needed to get a good yield. So, I went with this $200 screw press solution, for now. It's not great, but it makes chocolate possible.
Thanks,
Mark C.
The butter press operated by a hydraulic jack has been around for a while. I saw my first one in Venezuela in 2006 and I recently met the guy who designed and fabricated them. Right now, the political situation in Venezuela makes it difficult to work with people there.
What you can't see here is that there is a tap hole drilled in the plate of the piston/plunger and there is a plastic tube attached to this tap hole. The cocoa butter is expressed through this hole. The plunger/plate is to the right of the press.
These are simple and relatively inexpensive to make and do not have any means to heat the pot that contains the cocoa liquor.
Hi Michael,
I'm not sure. When I said 50/50, I might have been a little sloppy on the numbers. It's probably more like 60/40. One thing that does happen, is that the solids that come out the front end will fall into your butter pan at times. I don't have a permanent solution for that yet. For now I just shape some aluminum foil in various places to try and keep the solids going out. I also use foil to line the sides of the container so that the butter that shoots the wrong way will drop down into the pan. However, I still use a spatula to scrape off around 1/2 cup of butter from the housing.
I just keep telling myself that, while the Cacao Cucina solution is better, I have not had to commit $27K to this machine.
There is a research team at California Poly, led by Dr. Thomas Neuhaus, that is designing a low cost, lightweight butter press, which is powered with a 20 ton hand jack. It's still in progress, but their goal is to bring a low cost solution for expressing butter, so that they can help African cacao farmers earn more than commodity prices for cacao. The farmers will also be able to make their own chocolate and sell it to tourists.
Thanks,
Mark C.
Hi Mark,
I've now gone through a full batch test with some clean Dominican I roasted and winnowed. I rigged up a hopper and pulled off the bottom so that I could process in bulk.
The full batch was about 20 lbs of nibs that took a few hours to process. At the end, my final numbers were 25% solids removed vs the 50/50 split you seemed to get.
Was there anything special you did to get the yields so high?
Use of the 110V to 220V transformer is important. :-)
I did have the machine shut down on me once also. I'm not sure what happened, but I also removed and cleaned the drill bit and it started working again.
You are going to notice that if you run enough nibs through the machine that butter will spurt out in every direction, within the housing. I just make sure the housing is clean before using and scrape it down with a spatula, saving the butter that did not make into the pan. Other thing I do is try to line the pan with foil that runs up the sides of the housing so it will be more apt to drip into the pan. Still, some will drip out.
One other thing I do to speed things along...Don't use that little reducer tray for the nibs. Keep the opening large. To do that you will need to raise up the mechanical housing. I do that with some small pieces of 2x4" lumber. This will let the housing for the butter pan drop all the way onto the drill bit feed so that no nibs will fall around the opening. Without that reducer tray, I have to refill the the hopper every minute or so. With the reducer, it takes much longer and I have to manually shove nibs around.
Ah... I see. Needed to use the 110v->220v converter that came with it. It was not running full power. Ha!
Hey Mark,
Many thanks for pointing us in this direction. I now too have one of these machines but I am having a hard time operating it. After receiving it, sanitizing it and putting it together per the instructions, I was excited to put the first batch of nibs through.
Just when it appears to start working (ie cocoa butter is coming out and the first cylinder of cocoa powder is coming out the end), the machine seems to overload and then shut down.
At first I thought perhaps the heating element hadn't run long enough to keep it going. So, I cleaned it out and let the unit heat up for an entire hour prior to using it.
It went a little better the second time, but again stopped after about 60 seconds of operation.
Thanks for any help you can provide.
Tom:
What is very expensive for what you can produce? Cacao Cucina? We've moved off of the original topic of this post.
Yes, Tom's video shows the same type extractor I have. It does have a separate switch for the heating element, which you need to turn on 3-6 minutes before you start the press.
The cocoa I used was already roasted, cracked and winnowed, because I want to grind the solid into powder, which worked well. To be honest, the cocoa powder is something I can market right away, whereas I need to improve my chocolate making skills and process before selling any of that.
I think I found a vid Clay at this address:
new type oil press machine operating process
Looks like an automated screw expeller, like the hand worked Piteba one. I bought one of these and had no luck in getting cocoa butter out of it. However Bob Rankin also had a Piteba and was getting it to work but he died before he got around to helping me tweak what I was doing to get it to work. Just wondering what options are available in the automated version for speed and aperture for the solid and liquid output. These things need to be adjusted as the system warms up too (with the Piteba).
Found some instructions for use .
Looks like heating is controlled by thermostat for expelling the solid which is good as I found the end of the Piteba sometimes cooled down and this stopped the cocoa solid from coming out.
Mark -
When you get a chance, a video of the machine in operation would be fun to see, also a photo of whatever hoper design you put together. I wonder if you can make a simple hopper from a 5-liter water bottle?
This is great news for small craft producers.
A 35 kilo batch of 70% chocolate at 10% added cocoa butter is what ... about 2-3 kilos? This could easily be done in short order it sounds like.
Real, single-origin chocolate ... where the butter is from the same origin as the beans ... on a budget.
