Forum Activity for @Nat

Nat
@Nat
03/11/12 17:08:22
75 posts

Can sugar bloom be reversed?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Whenyou sayyou don't have air conditioning, and ifyou're in Mumbai, that makes me suspicious thatyouprobably have humidity mroe than 50% which makes tempering properly nearly impossible. I noticed this even in New York in the summers where I'd been tempering finethrough the winter, but when June hit with it's humidity everything I'd been doing the same all along stopped working. I put a little air conditioner in my kitchen and everything went back to normal as before.

If there's anywayyou can AC a small area whereyou temper this will help immensely, and still use the fridge for the final cooling after molding.

Humidity seems to be the biggest thing thatpeople ignore when tempering since it's not somethingyou think about with other kinds of cooking so much.

-Nat

____________________________

Nat Bletter, PhD

Chocolate Flavormeister

Madre Chocolate

http://madrechocolate.com

Sebastian
@Sebastian
03/11/12 15:32:26
754 posts

Can sugar bloom be reversed?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

If it really is sugar bloom, you'll be able to brush/wipe most of it off. Will it ever look as if it didn't sugar bloom in the first place? Possibly, depends on a lot of factors. If the product still has good snap, and you can brush most of it off the top w/o the chocolate melting when you touch it, it's probably sugar bloom.

Chirag Bhatia
@Chirag Bhatia
03/11/12 14:23:17
27 posts

Can sugar bloom be reversed?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Yesterday i made a batch of chocolates that had an absolutely smooth texture when i removed it from themelangeur, i then tempered it ( i think i did it correctly because the batch i made before this was fine) andmoldedit and kept it in the fridge to set ( i'm based in India and dont have air-conditioning, so i have no choice). Today i tasted it and the surface had a gritty texture.

I read online that this is caused by sugar bloom and want to ask all of you who are much moreknowledgeableand experienced than me if this can be solved by re melting and then tempering the chocolate again.

I have made a couple of batches before this that i also set in the fridge anddidn'thave this problem.


updated by @Chirag Bhatia: 04/11/25 09:27:36
Chirag Bhatia
@Chirag Bhatia
03/11/12 12:34:24
27 posts

chocolate droplets


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Hey Guys

I need to make chocolates shaped like droplets of water (3d).. to get themoldsmade here will work out too expensive. Any innovative ideas?


updated by @Chirag Bhatia: 04/11/25 09:27:36
Kerry
@Kerry
03/25/12 09:40:02
288 posts

Does anyone know why Callebaut is no longer marketing Mycryo for tempering?


Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

There was a demo day at Humber College in Toronto a month or so back - Philippe Vancayseele was the chef! Wonderful presentation, excellent teacher - I'd highly recommend any course with him.

Davy Asnong
@Davy Asnong
03/25/12 07:00:35
19 posts

Does anyone know why Callebaut is no longer marketing Mycryo for tempering?


Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

Sorry for the late reply Margaret.

I have asked you question at callebaut, and nothing has changed for the Mycryo.

You can still use it for tempering your chocolate.

I also didn't find the topic on the USA site of callebaut, but it still is in the UK part to have it in englisch.

Here's the link http://www.callebaut.com/uken/2056

About the academy, I also think it's worth the money! We learned some new techniques.. Seen some new ways to come to a new recipe. These peoples are working every day to discover new ways and products to be the best chocolate in the world. Our group had a 2 days course from Philippe Vancayseele, he's a really great guy to listen to and to work with. If you read this Philippe, thanks again!!

Davy

Dirke Botsford
@Dirke Botsford
03/15/12 22:09:23
98 posts

Does anyone know why Callebaut is no longer marketing Mycryo for tempering?


Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

Davy I would love to know how your experience at the academy is, I'm going in April. What are you taking, if you don't mind me asking?
Dirke Botsford
@Dirke Botsford
03/15/12 22:07:55
98 posts

Does anyone know why Callebaut is no longer marketing Mycryo for tempering?


Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

My regional Callebaut rep just dropped some off, I doubt they would drop it as it fantastic to use in so many applications. A local supplier should know where to get it? Or contact Callebaut direct.
Davy Asnong
@Davy Asnong
03/12/12 07:23:35
19 posts

Does anyone know why Callebaut is no longer marketing Mycryo for tempering?


Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

Wednesday I am at the belgian callebautchocolate academy and I will ask the question!

Send me a pmin case I forgot the reply to this..

margaret2
@margaret2
03/11/12 11:50:37
11 posts

Does anyone know why Callebaut is no longer marketing Mycryo for tempering?


Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)

Does anyone know why Callebaut is no longer marketing Mycryo for tempering?

I noticed they have changed the label to show fish and corn and it has the tag "cocoa butter for salty applications"

Mycryo tempering info has disappeared from it's website.

I just bought some from Chef Rubber but now I hesitate to use it.

Anyone knows what gives?


updated by @margaret2: 12/13/24 12:16:07
Bill Tice
@Bill Tice
06/06/12 13:21:03
10 posts

Need to know about parts/manual availability for this machine.


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Here is ChocoTec's website: http://www.chocotech.de . As Danial Herskovic mentioned they are part of Sollich.

Brandon Buckner
@Brandon Buckner
06/06/12 10:40:36
13 posts

Need to know about parts/manual availability for this machine.


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I appreciate it! I had flipped the vibrating part around while I was cleaning the machine prior to the photo.

Brandon Buckner
@Brandon Buckner
06/06/12 10:39:46
13 posts

Need to know about parts/manual availability for this machine.


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thanks! Since I started this thread, I've actually built a spout out of thin cardboard and I'm waiting for the fabricator to finish up some welds on the stainless. I appreciate you attaching a photo. I believe I have figured out the digital readout/controls - it's pretty straight forward. I'm anxious to put this machine to work.

Al Garnsworthy
@Al Garnsworthy
06/06/12 07:41:23
22 posts

Need to know about parts/manual availability for this machine.


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

By the way, the vibrating table on this machine is back to front.. the grill should be next to the wheel, not hanging over the left hand side as shown in this picture.

Jennifer Roberts
@Jennifer Roberts
06/04/12 18:36:32
1 posts

Need to know about parts/manual availability for this machine.


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I have this same machine and am in a similar boat, as I have no manual, but I do have the spout. I've attached the best photo I have right now if you'd like more I can take more. It's a simple piece I'm sure any metal shop could fabricate it for you, it's just attached with a metal bit and tightened with a fancy nut. I hope this helps.

Daniel Herskovic
@Daniel Herskovic
03/18/12 14:25:27
132 posts

Need to know about parts/manual availability for this machine.


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I'm such a geek when it comes to chocolate machinery! I think I read somewhere that Chocotec is somehow related to Sollich . Perhaps if you found a Sollich rep they would be able to point you in an interesting direction. If not, you seem like a pretty resourceful person.

Brandon Buckner
@Brandon Buckner
03/16/12 12:08:35
13 posts

Need to know about parts/manual availability for this machine.


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I appreciate it! I also found Prefamac as a possibility. The issue is the configuration of the holder/attachment for the spout and where it's attached behind the wheel. I think I may have to go custom. I'm open to all options though. Thanks!

Daniel Herskovic
@Daniel Herskovic
03/16/12 11:46:48
132 posts

Need to know about parts/manual availability for this machine.


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

That is certainly one option. Another option is to contact Bakon USA or Perfect. Show them a picture of your machine and see if they have a part that could fit your machine. If they have something in stock or can create something for you, they will ask you all the right questions about the dimensions of the machine to make sure that what you order will indeed work. Good Luck!

Brandon Buckner
@Brandon Buckner
03/15/12 22:42:20
13 posts

Need to know about parts/manual availability for this machine.


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

i appreciate it. I think i may have to have one fabricated. It's amazing that there's no chocotec presence on the web. I wonder if they're no longer around. I see the machines here and there, but no company info anywhere. I'm gonna need that spout for sure. I may have a steel place in town fabricate me one. I think I'm gonna mock one up w/ cardboard and take it to a shop advertising stainless/sheet welding.

I appreciate the link above. I came across this one too http://bakonusa.com/ these too http://www.keychoc.com/moulding-machines.php

Daniel Herskovic
@Daniel Herskovic
03/12/12 13:09:52
132 posts

Need to know about parts/manual availability for this machine.


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Hi there. Jeff is correct in the type of attachment you need. Here is a link -- (click on wheel tempering machine if you need to) http://www.perfectinc.com/products.html You might be able to figure things out from there. Good luck with your new machine. You will figure it out!

Brandon Buckner
@Brandon Buckner
03/11/12 08:13:33
13 posts

Need to know about parts/manual availability for this machine.


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

is it similar to the trough/spout on a hilliards enrober? if so, i have one and could possibly have one fabricated based on this one - or order one from hilliards to modify. Could you link or upload or send a photo of the piece to me? Thanks!

Jeff Stern
@Jeff Stern
03/11/12 05:06:11
78 posts

Need to know about parts/manual availability for this machine.


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

You're missing a piece that should fit onto the rod, where the wheel then fits into a groove in the piece, allowing the chocolate to be brought up into the piece which has a spout opening for filling molds.

Brandon Buckner
@Brandon Buckner
03/10/12 23:07:33
13 posts

Need to know about parts/manual availability for this machine.


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

We purchased this ChocoTec temperer off of ebay awhile back. It came w/o a manual and it works as expected - a digital thermostat allows the operator to set a temp and see the desired temp and the actual temp at the same time. This seems intuitive - as does the use of the shaker. The only thing I'm not sure about is the vertical wheel in configuration with a stainless angled rod at the top. My question is: is this where the chocolate pours off while the wheel is spinning or am I missing an attachment (like a trough) that should be attached to the rod to dispense chocolate into molds?

Another question is: where can I get such an attachment or a manual - does anyone know of a distributor for Chocotec machines in the U.S.?

I would greatly appreciate any info I can get!

Thanks!


updated by @Brandon Buckner: 04/11/25 09:27:36
Brad Churchill
@Brad Churchill
03/15/12 21:22:12
527 posts

Raw Chocolate


Posted in: Opinion

Kat;

I think it's great that you are seeking out the truth. The considerable deception in the chocolate world is the reason I got into the business in the first place.

Far too many people blindly believe what they read in the media, then take it and preach it as gospel.

Never stop asking questions!

Cheers.

Brad

Kat
@Kat
03/15/12 19:18:03
15 posts

Raw Chocolate


Posted in: Opinion

Thank you everyone for these responses. I apologize that this has been hashed out so many times in this forum. It seems to be a touchy subject. I asked this question, because I am new to making chocolate, and wanting to understand better claims of how chocolate is processed. I am wanting to sift through the truth vs. marketing ploys. I am getting the picture. Thank you!

Brad Churchill
@Brad Churchill
03/15/12 10:06:58
527 posts

Raw Chocolate


Posted in: Opinion

RW... Your statementjust abovetypifies how stupid people can be. "I don't care if it will kill me. I want to know if it's healthier!"

My reply: "Hey retard! Being dead IS NOT HEALTHY!"

Usually when people ask me (and I get asked at least once a week), my answer is simple: "Would you go to the same country and drink the water right out of the pump?". They answer "Absolutely not!", and I reply "Then why the hell would you pick something up off the ground of the same country and eat it without cooking it first?"

Geesh....

Brad

brian horsley
@brian horsley
03/14/12 22:08:01
48 posts

Raw Chocolate


Posted in: Opinion

i buy raw beans at the farm, do all the post harvest processing, and i've made chocolate in a small factory, although i'm mostly a bean guy. i really doubt that any product that tastes like chocolate goes all the way through the process without going well over the raw limit wherever temp they put that limit.

Jeff Nelson
@Jeff Nelson
03/14/12 21:38:50
8 posts

Raw Chocolate


Posted in: Opinion

I don't understand, they are more concerned with probably fictitious health benefits then they are about eating poison?

RW Carlson
@RW Carlson
03/14/12 21:13:51
5 posts

Raw Chocolate


Posted in: Opinion

Actually I'm not sure what the originator of this thread was asking or suggesting. Usually when people ask me about raw chocolate they are not concerned about the potential microbiological health hazard, but rather are interested in the possible health benefits one might get from eating a less processed food item.

Sebastian
@Sebastian
03/14/12 18:20:21
754 posts

Raw Chocolate


Posted in: Opinion

No one's suggesting it's not possible to physically make a product with raw agricultural materials; only that it's a terrible, terrible idea from a food safety perspective. One that once it's officially looked at through a regulatory lens, will be quickly legislated into illegality. Having been part of the preliminary discussions that have already occurred w/in the FDA, I can tell you that it's on the radar, but not prioritized.

Bottom line - just don't do it. It's foolish. If you choose to expose yourself to the risk, do so knowing what that risk is; under no circumstance should you offer it for sale to the consuming public who has an expectation of food safety, and has exhibited very little willingness to educate themselves.

RW Carlson
@RW Carlson
03/14/12 13:37:00
5 posts

Raw Chocolate


Posted in: Opinion

Yes, you can make bars without roasting the beans. You just don't get a lot of the flavors (most?). Tempering depends on having enough cacao butter, and if it's a raw liquor, it has plenty of butter. Mixing raw chocolate with regular chocolate would be interesting because you could cut down on some of the bitterness of the chocolate, although I imagine that the acidity (organic acids) would increase a bit. Don't know about how healthy it would be though.

One comment about Clay's discussion above, I have measured the temperature of beans drying in the sun (in Costa Rica) and have found that the temperature of the surface of the beans (not the ambient temperature) often get above 120 degrees F, and sometimes get as high as 130. Does that mean that, after drying, they are already roasted? Are they mildly roasted? The beans in the farms here usually take at least a week to dry, preferably a little longer. If it happens to be a sunny week, that means that the beans are exposed to temperatures of 120 degrees F for 7 days.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
03/11/12 22:33:39
1,688 posts

Raw Chocolate


Posted in: Opinion

Kat:

As Nat says, this is a topic that has been discussed - a lot - here on TheChocolateLife.

Sebastian also rightly points out some very important aspects of the debate, one of which is the question of what does "raw" mean (i.e., what is the max temp), and other is the question of safety.

Like many things, the answers to your questions are much more complicated than they appear to be on the surface.

What is Meant by Raw?

Raw means uncooked. The raw food "movement" has put a ceiling on the maximum temperature that food can be exposed to before being considered cooked. Unfortunately, there is no universal agreement on what that maximum temperature is. Some people say it's 40C (about 104-105F) others say 115F (about 46C) and others say 118F (47.7777C).

Whatever the temperature is, there is, in fact, no scientific proof to support the basic claim that food enzymes are denatured and are no longer effective above any of these temperatures. I quote from TheRawChocolateCompany.com (referenced in a comment on your other post), "All fresh vegetable/plant foods contain enzymes that aid digestion. Heating can degrade many of these enzymes, increasing the strain on the body's own enzyme production.Eating food with reduced enzymes makes digestion more difficult. This in turn can contribute to toxicity in the body, excess consumption of food, and ultimately obesity and chronic disease."

These ideas were first proposed by Ed Howell in his book, "The Theory of Enzyme Nutrition." To the best of my knowledge, there have been no credible, independent, scientific studies that validate these claims. (Gabriel Cousens is not independent, and in many quarters is not considered credible, so you can't cite his "research.")

In fact, there is a large body of evidence to suggest that many beneficial enzymes in food do, in fact, survive at much higher temperatures than 118F and do so for long periods of time, especially in aqueous environments.

The Burden of Proof

The raw food community has been making these claims for a long time. When pressed, the response is generally, "Prove us wrong." This is unscientific - the proper way to respond is to buck up and do (i.e., pay for) the independent research to prove what you are claiming.

Cooking is Inherently a Bad Thing

While it is true that prolonged exposure to heat can degrade some nutrients in food, it is also the case that cooking can make the nutrients in some food more bio-available (e.g., broccoli). It is also the case that cooking does, in many cases, create valuable nutrients that do not exist in a food in its raw state. For example, the antioxidants found in coffee are found only in roasted coffee; the process of roasting creates valuable nutrients in this case and, I suspect, in many others.

Know Your Physics

Cooking is about contact time and how heat is applied, not just about getting something to a particular temperature. It is preposterous to believe that all of the enzymes in a dried cocoa bean (assuming there were any in the first place, which there probably aren't) were denatured instantly the moment the exterior of the bean was exposed to a temperature above 118F. I can drop 35kg of beans into a half-bag coffee roaster set at 350F and the temperature will immediately drop to below 100F and take quite some time to recover to 250F. Does the fact that the beans are exposed to 350F for a fraction of a second as the temperature in the roaster is quenched by the mass of the beans mean the beans are cooked?

No, it doesn't. It will take many minutes for the roaster temp to rise above 118F and when it does, at least for a short while, evaporative cooling from moisture leaving the bean will keep the temperature of the surface of the bean well below 118F. How do I know this? I've actually measured it.

So - at what point are the beans considered "cooked?" The moment the outer surface is exposed to temps above 118F? When .02% of the mass of the bean reaches 118F? 0.2%? 2%?

Food Safety

There are several ways to do a "kill step" in chocolate that won't "violate" the chocolate by cooking it. One is to soak the cocoa beans in hydrogen peroxide. This is a common and accepted practice in the organic world and it has been used, to some extent, in the raw chocolate world.

Another way to perform the kill step is to expose the beans to very hot, very humid air for a short period of time. You have to remember that cocoa beans are covered with a paper-like shell. It actually takes a while for the heat of the roaster to completely penetrate the shell and start to raise the surface temperature of the bean inside past 118F. Long enough, in fact, to perform a kill step - if the humidity is high enough.

On the Farm

Have you ever been on a cacao farm where the farmer does his own fermentation and drying?

Fermentation of the pulp surrounding cacao seeds can easily reach temperatures of 122F to 125F. However, the beans are in an aqueous environment which has been shown to reduce the denaturing of enzymes due to heat. It is possible to do a full fermentation where the temp does not go above 118F, but the pile needs to be very closely monitored with thermometers. I don't know anyone who does this in practice.

Anyone who has been on a cacao farm also knows that the temperature of a drying pad can easily reach 140F during the heat of the day. Beans lying in the sun for hours at a time are heated through to temps that easily exceed 125F - for hours and days at a time. It is possible to dry the beans at much lower temperatures? Of course, but it requires more time and more energy to do so and there is always the risk of the beans molding, mildewing, or rotting - which is why high heat is used in the first place.

No raw foodist or raw chocolate company - that I am aware of - has ever done a comparative study of the nutritional profile of seeds straight from the pod, seeds after each stage of fermentation, beans after drying, and then the beans after roasting. There is no baseline research to prove the claims. It is all apocryphal. There is no hard data, only assumptions.

That Said ...

There is a lot to say for a raw-ish diet that consists of a high proportion of foods that are minimally processed. Many raw foodists are also vegetarian or vegan, and most prefer to purchase organic foods. All these things are hallmarks of a good diet - if not taken to extremes (e.g., fruitarian).

The point is, unless you can point to research to back up the claim of 118F or lower, and are willing to obsessively supervise all steps in the production chain from the farm to tempering (has anyone measured the instantaneous sheer temperature under the grinding stone of a CocoaTown ECGC65? It could easily be over 118F), then you have to give up the notion of a definition of raw that is tied to the maximum temperature of 118F. Believe it or not, setting the bar (for cocoa and chocolate) at 125F is a lot more sane. There are a number of techniques that can be used to develop Maillard reaction browning and flavor development at this low temperature; you just can't get caramelization flavors which are the result of pyrolysis at much higher temperatures.

In my opinion, a more process-oriented definition for "raw" chocolate needs to be developed, not adherence to a single temperature that has never been proven to apply.

Sebastian
@Sebastian
03/11/12 07:00:43
754 posts

Raw Chocolate


Posted in: Opinion

1) W/o having a universal definition of what 'raw' is, it's a moving target

2) I find it implausible that anyone claiming to make raw chocolate is actually doing so. at best they likely don't know what they're doing, at worst they're intentionally misleading their consumer

3) Almost no matter what your definition of raw is, it represents a huge. huge. huge. huge. safety risk from a microbiological standpoint. Unless your irradiate. Which i'm almost equally positive no one's doing. Killing your customers has been scientifically proven to be a terrible business model.

Kat
@Kat
03/10/12 22:34:10
15 posts

Raw Chocolate


Posted in: Opinion

Thank you for your response Nat. I did a search, and did not get a direct answer, though I may not have been looking in the right way. Also, I ask people's thoughts on this, if they do not want to respond, they do not have to, therefore not repeating themselves. Sorry if it offended you in some way, I am just wanting some thoughts on this topic.

Nat
@Nat
03/10/12 21:12:11
75 posts

Raw Chocolate


Posted in: Opinion

Kat,

Please read the many posts on this exact topic here before askingpeople to repeat their responses.

Kat
@Kat
03/10/12 17:38:57
15 posts

Raw Chocolate


Posted in: Opinion

Chocolate community...what are your opinions on companies that claim they used raw chocolate in their bars? I have been hearing varied things on this topic. Does anyone know for certain if fermented beans can be used in bars without being roasted? Thank you!


updated by @Kat: 04/10/15 01:13:50
rene
@rene
05/06/12 15:08:04
23 posts

Fermented cacao beans-bar


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

i think that word 'raw' just sounds too magical for people and calling some product 'raw' like 'raw chocolate' they want to make the product more 'magical' that it already is. what they probably really mean with 'raw' is 'natural'. meaning that the product or chocolate is pure and clean natural product. :)

rene
@rene
05/06/12 03:02:31
23 posts

Fermented cacao beans-bar


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

if you make bread you dont eat raw dough and also you dont eat raw potato...that's because it's unpleasant and not healthy ;-) the same goes with chocolate.

Jonathan Simpkins
@Jonathan Simpkins
05/05/12 17:21:50
11 posts

Fermented cacao beans-bar


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

it seems like some of you guys have gotten into this argument before and are sounding defensive about whether or not chocolate is healthy. just to be clear, I want to say that my experience is that chocolate which is made from organic, shade-grown beans, fermented & dried, lightly roasted & peeled or winnowed, and ground with stones (not necessarily mechanically) is the healthy kind. maybe sweetened with a little bit of honey or maple or similar whole food sweetener. otherwise i agree with you and think that it is just candy.

Tom
@Tom
05/05/12 17:13:48
205 posts

Fermented cacao beans-bar


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

The mechanical grinding pocess to refine chocolate can destroy enzymes and proteins. Shearing force alone is enough. I posted the ref once before but it was lost when a raw food hippy took their post off, i will dig up the ref again when i have time at work.
Jonathan Simpkins
@Jonathan Simpkins
05/05/12 17:07:00
11 posts

Fermented cacao beans-bar


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

What is that gob of yellow slimey mass they lipo out of peoples bodies? Is that fat? No. It is blocking the lymphatic system from drainage, it is not stored in lymph nodes. I recommend you read Parasite Rex and humble yourself. It seems you are pretty gullible to mainstream opinions. The main point anyhow was that you called chocolate unhealthy, and I was only correcting you by saying that the way it is modernly prepared by most of you folks is unhealthy - mass produced beans and refined white sugar. Wild growing, ground with stones, honey sweetened cacao beverages, xocolatl, is healthful. There is a reason why the emperor Moctezuma II of the entire Aztec empire kept his storehouses stocked with cacao beans when they could have easily been stocked with gold! I recommend you read some books about cacao and it's history so you can know a little bit about the plant you make your living from. Peace.

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