Forum Activity for @Julie M. McLean

Daniel and Sebastian, you both got me thinking.

Roasting: ill stick with IMSA, as i´m not allowed to buying equipment that needs modification. The legal advisor was very insistent with it.

Winnower: Same as roasting, not allowed to build machines or parts for machines.

Grinding: i was reading the specifications of the CAO B5, Caotech Ball Mill. Apparently it can refine, from cocoa powder to cocoa liquor and everything on the middle. I´m not sure about that, as i was convinced that ball mills were required for high fat content products (as cocoa liquor) and roll refiners for degreased cocoa liquor.

I was planning to use the disc mill for refining cocoa cake from the cocoa butter press, but that no longer seems necessary, same for the roll refiner.

But as it´s been repeatedly pointed out, i don´t know much about this, so i would like to hear about your experiences.

Tempering: As Sebastian said, i would choose to temper by hand, but there is a lot of politics inside this project; you are absolutely right, it has to work great, but it has to "look" great too.

I´ll get for me some premiers and the nutracheff oil press by July to try the number 2 option Sebastian mention. But that´s for me with my cocoa clones.

That's helpful David - thank you.

A couple of thoughts, if I may.

Roasting - while i have not used the Inox directly, i suspect it's a perfectly suitable piece of equipment. I also suspect that it's more than you require, and i might recommend a Binder oven as an alternative.  Fantastically good temperature control and heat distribution for a fraction of the price.  Regardless of the oven you select, i'd recommend having your machine shop fabricate some standardized roasting trays to hold a fixed amount at a fixed depth with airflow through the bottom.  This will help you with your oven 'recovery' time (when you open the doors and put x amount in, your temperature will drop - the amount of time it takes the oven to come back to it's set temperature is it's recovery time, and is very useful in creating a standardized assessment method).

Winnowing - again, it probably a perfectly suitable unit, but if you're open to it, you can build something equally as suitable for 1/5 of the price yourself.  Now, part of what you may want this lab to be is a showcase as well - meaning looks are important - if that's the case, i'd stick with purchasing the commercial unit as a DIY winnower - while as effective, isn't likely to look as nice.

Disc mill - perfectly suitable.  why do you want this?  you've got a ball mill listed later, which i'm assuming  you want to use to make chocolate liquor.  A disc mill is going to perform the same task as a ball mill.  Not sure you need both.  An alternative to both of them i might recommend is a colloid mill.  a number of years ago i was looking for a suitable milling operation that i could install in the jungle anywhere in the world, and i secured a JML colloid mill literally off of ebay to test it.  very cost effective, and while it required me to clean the living daylights out of it beofre i used it, i found it to be a remarkably robust, easy to operate, and efficient piece of equipment for making liquor.

Roll Refiner - i'd recommend testing this unit before you buy it to ensure it can achieve sufficient particle size reduction.  Some 3 roll refiners don't have sufficient tensioning built into them to get to small particle size (20um - some of them struggle with achieving even 50 um).

Tempering - if you're going to be doing 5kg batches, it frankly might be easier to hand temper them.  A good hot plate, an aluminum rectangular pan, and your cooling tunnel will enable this.  There are a number of small batch tempering units that are in that 5kg size range that cost $1-2k that are suitable as well.

You also want to give some consideration to how are  you going to cool your chocolate once it's been tempered.  This can be as simple as modifying a refrigeration unit to be suitable for chocolate, but in your environment, tempering without cooling will be very problematic for you.

Any refractometer you get should have at least a 0-30 brix range - anything higher than 30 isn't going to be useful for you, assuming you're going to use it to assess cocoa pulp.  Not sure what you're going to do with a hygrometer.  Other useful pieces of equipment, assuming you're also going to be working with the cocoa beans, include a set of good stick thermometers, a field portable pH meter, and i'd strongly recommend somerthing called a Dickey John mini GAC+ to allow you to do rapid cocoa bean moisture analysis.  If you're going to be working in the field with fermentation and drying, i might also suggest a good set of data loggers that record both temperature and humidity.

Please use the following format to make it easier for people.

There are three parts. Whether you are selling or buying, what it is you are selling (F/S, For Sale) or WTB (Want to Buy), and where you are located. Each of these three parts should be separated a space-dash-space. See below:

For Sale / Wanted to Buy - What you are selling/looking for - Where you are (as precise as possible - country at least).

Examples:

• F/S - Used Batch Tempering Machine - Chicago
• WTB - Undeodorized Cocoa Butter - WA

Thanks.

Please also take a look at the guidelines for closing posts, which is also pinned.

Does anyone have a guitar cutter (preferable Dedy or Bakon) with 5mm base they are looking to sell?

Hi David,

It is really useful for me to see those prices and options, thank you

How much production per week do you need to have?

Here's my current setup:

-Roasting. Right now I am using a convection oven (CAD $4,000), which can roast 4-5 perforated pans at once. It does result in a lot of smoke. I usually roast ~4kg in under 20 minutes, as there is a lot of airflow so using the same roast curves others post here leads to burning.

-Winnowing. Sylph winnower with shop-vac and "dust deputy". A Champion juicer to crack the beans feeds into the Sylph, and I separate nibs by size for 2nd and optionally a 3rd pass. I control for remaining husk by weighing what's left in 100g of nibs (marijuana scales are cheap and have 0.01g accuracy). ~CAD $1500 for this setup.

-Grinding. I have a universal and several smaller test mills, both a Spectra/Santha and 5 Premier Wonders. When testing recipe variations I can use two Premiers side-by-side. Each of those can easily handle 2.5kg and will result in very good chocolate; I highly recommend you start with those. I keep those small mills over a heater at 40C in a baking rack holder with cover, which doubles as a warming cabinet. Premiers can handle 100g of nibs every 5 minutes, so this lets me skip pre-grinding.

-Tempering. I experimented a lot before deciding on a continuous tempering machine. For higher throughput production it is not tempering but _dosing_ that is finicky and time-consuming. If you care less about these concerns, you can use cheaper tempering machines or even skip them and temper on stone. A higher-tech solution is an EZTemper (USD$1,000) or a cheaper PID controller setup that keeps cocoa butter at the same temperature.

For optimal tempering I would consider refrigeration (my setup is a baking rack holder with cover and an A/C unit blowing cold air in).

I'm not sure what use a refractometer would be. I found hygrometers for $20 and so have a couple around the workshop. The laser (infrared) thermometer is the other gadget I wouldn't want to be without.

My next purchases will probably include a tiny cocoa butter press (Nutrachef, USD$250) which I suspect will be pretty common amongst craft makers. From online descriptions it can get 160g of butter from 500g of liquor in 30 minutes.

I'd also like a proper conche and will look at the one you listed. At a larger scale a Kleego might be more compelling as it can vary many parameters independently.

I think you could put off the roll refiner and ball mill and replace grinding with multiple Premiers, which would let you try many more recipes in parallel.

Chris -

It's hard to tell who the original design/manufacturer of these presses is. Once a design becomes popular it gets knocked of then you end up with knockoffs of knockoffs and so on.

I have a copy of the info sheet on the Delani version of this press in Spanish. I don't see how I can attach it to this post but I have uploaded the file to my profile and you should be able to download it by clicking on this link .

Delani buys these presses from a manufacturer in China and ships them to Peru. There they are checked to make sure that they are wired properly and that there are no manufacturing defects. Delani also includes parts they manufacture that enable the press to operate more efficiently. And, as you can see in the photo on the info sheet they add an enclosure. Yeah, they are more expensive, but you get something that works, not something you're going to have to work on after you get it and before you put it into production.

If you are interested I can help arrange for a quote - I am representing Delani in the US.

Hi everyone, my total budget is 260.000.000 colombian pesos, that´s about 80.000 dolars.

- Cocoa Roaster 5 kg per batch. Machine: ERTC-05 IMSA $10.300 Perú

  This machine is programmable, INOX, has a cooling cicle and fumes extraction            system among other stuff i find trouble translating.

- Winnower 15 kg/h IMSA Perú $6.300

 This one is the smallest i´ve found.

- Disc Mill (no brand in particular) $1.000

- Cocoa Butter Press: I haven´t found any for $11.000 i think i would need to get a "kitchen" or domestic machine for this purpose. We just need 1 kg of cocoa butter a day and 10 kg of degrased cocoa liquor a day.

-Roll Refiner: Three Roll Mill Model T65 Torrey Hills Technologies $8.800

 This is the smallest roll refiner i´ve found.

-Ball Mill + Conche 5kg per batch each. Caotech CAO B5 + CWC5 $33.000

-Tempering machine 5 kg per batch. Pomati T5

  I think this one cost about $8.000, but i haven´t looked for any definitive machine.

With that money, i also have to buy hygrometers, refractometers, guillotine, therometers etc. But those aren´t hard to find. I would expect to spend no more than $3.500.

I´m open to suggestions, i can´t hire a professional or buy second hand equipment.

I just had to sit down and listen a legal advisor for two hours just for trying to change the budget they gave me, until he found a legal exit for doing this.

I really appreciate everyone´s contributions to this topic.

Thanks!!

Sebastian, you´re right. The main goals are to make some resarch, provide assistance to farmers and create a small chocolate maker and chocolatier programme as the institution i´m working for is the public learning service.

David - it's also helpful to understand why you're makign chocolate (what the purpose is).  Is it to highlight columbian cocoa to support the agronomy?  Is it to establish a standardized means to assess various clonal materials and post harvest practices?  If i had to guess i'd suspect more #1 than #2 as 5kg is a lot for standardized assessments.

Hi Tim,

Just wondering how you are going with your grease issue? My santha has just started doing the same thing. We have pulled it apart and cleaned all the grease out of the wheels and shaft and currently waiting for it to dry. I have been using my santha for 12 months now and never had a problem before.

Did the above steps you have mentioned solve your problem or did the grease come back?

Thanks Nicole.

Thanks everyone, i had a chance to talk to my employer about the challenge of trying to set up a lab with fixed budgets and names.

They found a alternative way of purchasing the equipment (burocracy), but now i can chose the equipment and buy it directly.

i´m polishing the details, but for now i´m aiming for 5 kg per batch equipment.

i´ll post tomorrow the specific equipment i´ve seen until now.

Delani -  The machine you see in the video is manufactured in China.  It is a knock off of the original manufacture from Korea. National engineering company LTD.  I received a price quote on two of the machines ( from National ).The Hanaro Type A- and Type B. Type A  -  $ 12,500. Type B  - $ 13,500.  These prices were quoted to me through email in May 2015.  I also noticed that their price has come down between 11,000 and $12,000 on Alibaba.com.  The Chinese manufacture who has some what copied the Korean manufacture are allowing Trading companies to distribute their machine through AliBaba for the price of $3000 per machine. Give or take a few hundred dollars depending on what Trading Company in China (  which they all claim to be suppliers/manufacturers ) you email.  If you do decide to inquire about the Chinese machines I would also recommend  that you look closely at the trading process regarding payment and so forth. There is a website which I will attach here which you can find out if you're dealing with reputable supplier.  I have no affiliation with this company I just ran across their site while researching. They have very informative videos regarding suppliers from China. 

Question ? Has anyone constructed a press pot out of billet stainless steel.  I am looking into building my own press.  

OK, back in in the USSA [sic] and ready to report. The best offerings I found (regarding wide, quality selection- not individual stores of makers) were at Eataly in Torino/Turin and La Rinasciente in Milano.

First, when I speak of the Eataly in Torino, I'm speaking of the HUGE (once you find the alcohol section downstairs, almost doubling the square footage) grocery located in the Lingotto area of Torino - a 5 minute Metro ride from Porta Nuova (main train station); NOT the smaller one in the center of town, which is focused more on the restaurant aspect of their business model. They have a lovely selection of pretty much everyone except Amedei. Their Domori selection was the biggest I saw in Italy, and they had Gardini, too; I managed to buy the LAST TWO, gold-medal-winning cherry giandujia cremino. (If I don't get an email in the next few days, I'll contact you, Clay; tempting as it is, I won't eat yours.) Pro-tip: skip the Gelato there and head to Grom, Orso (especially here for espresso! They actually had 7 mono-origins and 2 blends- separate grinders and all!), or Marchetti (Pepino is OK, though more historical than presently enriching, imo).

Then, La Rinascente's literal penthouse of food is definitely worth checking out in Milan. The chocolate section is a step-down from the first option mentioned, though they had a bunch of Gardini's aforementioned treat as well as Pacari (multi-award winner from Ecuador), which was a nice detour. Their selection is pretty clogged with chocolates that are less worthy of your time - whereas the Eataly of Lingotto had tons of top quality on top of the "lesser" quality. Even if you have no intention of buying chocolate here, it's worth the multiple escalator rides to the top to have a nice lunch on the outdoor patio, where you're seated a small leap (no jumping allowed ) from the roof of the beautiful Duomo.

Feel free to ask any other questions should you seek info on Italia; I visited all (I think...so many!) Cioccolatieri in Torino, and tons of Gelatieri as far south as Rome.

Anyone know about the hydraulic presses from Hanaro or Delani? What little I know about the two:

Hanaro's website claims it's based in Korea, though I believe the same hydraulic presses (or just very similar) are made and sold by Chinese companies on AliBaba...? Last I checked they were 11-12k..? Video on their site:

http://www.nationaloilpress.com/hydraulic-oil-press-machine-hanaro-a-type/

As for Denali (from Peru, I think), I have no idea what they sell. First, they have a youtube video advertising a press that looks just like the Hanaro:

Cocoa Butter Press

If you click on the info link there, it shows you, via their English site, a totally different press for sale. THEN, if you dig deeper and go to their Spanish site (delani.biz) you find two machines meant to work in tandem: a.) what looks like the aforementioned, possibly Korean (or Chinese?) press enrobed, if you will , in metal and b.) a clarifying machine to rid the cocoa butter of impurities/cocoa mass.

Anyone have experience or information on these 2, 3, 4, or 5 machines? I sent an quote-inquiry via the English site, so I'll update when I hear back.

Great recipe. Thank you for sharing.

I tried your recipe but I put the salt a bit lot in caramel milk and just to show off I put lot of pecans in the cake. It was not that bad but Yes! I messed up the taste. Usually I pefer purchasing from wholesale restaurant desserts since they will provide facilities like cutom made cakes and other desserts with your choices of ingerdients in proper quantity. But I really wanted to try baking since I like the chocolate cake. Anyway I will try again this recipe being cautious!

Hi,

Here a nice overview about cacao cultivation in India. Maybe already a bit outdated. They speak about the use of Neem as pesticide to control bugs... Somewhere it is mentioned that cocoa should not be stored where spices, pesticides etc are stored because the beans tend to absorb flavors... So you might be right timwilde... But you guys know that for sure...

enjoy the article..

http://agritech.tnau.ac.in/horticulture/horti_plantation%20crops_cocoa.html

I'll ask how it's used. The neem used as organic pesticide usually is Neem oil with an emulsifier diluited in Water. Yes, that stuff smells bad. But not the bark or leaves..... In ancient times people used a piece of a branch as toothbrush... I've tried that as well, no bad taste, abit bitter astringet, but no strong flavor....

I'm sure Neem would work, as it's commonly used as an organic pesticide/pest deterrant in home gardening. However, having worked with it a lot because of gardening, I'd be more worried about off flavors and scents in the cocoa. Neem is a very powerful flavor and odor.

Hi Mariano,

Depends largely on the quantity of chocolate you are wanting to make.  For small scale batches (development) I've been using the Santha Spectra 11 melanger which works quite well.  When moving into production we are using the Santha 100.  I've heard that the Olde Tyme Nut Grinder can work well but I've never tried this before and I'm not sure this would give you the level of refinement you are looking for.   

Armin -

A quick search shows that neem leaves are used with cocoa in Ghana. There is nothing however about how the leaves are used.

Mariano -

It is only necessary to post in one forum. I am closing this one and asking that everyone comment on your post in the Tips forum .

Hi,

I'm often in India and I know they use the bark and leaves from the Neem tree to protect dry foodstuff (pulses, legumes, rice) from moths and other pests. They simply put some pieces/leaves inside the bags. Could work with cocoa beans as well...

Hi all, I occupy a suggestion to you who know more chocolate!
I want to buy a machine to make chocolate liquor and was told that these are good:

- Olde Tyme Nut Grinder

- Coloindal mill JM-50

but which can not buy

any suggestions?

thank you very much to all!

Hi all, I occupy a suggestion to you who know more chocolate!
I want to buy a machine to make chocolate liquor and was told that these are good:

- Olde Tyme Nut Grinder

- Coloindal mill JM-50

but which can not buy

any suggestions?

thank you very much to all!

A flow wrap machine uses rolls of film.

[quote="Clay Gordon"]

You are looking for what is called a flow wrapping machine. 

Prices are based on the size of the film that can be handled (width and length) as well the number of pieces per hour that can be wrapped ++ options that include not wrapping when there is no product present, metal detectors, and more. It's important to keep in mind that you don't get what you don't pay for. Skimping out on features at purchase could lead to production struggles.

One key aspect of the design to inquire about is the ease of changing the knives. Some models make it easy - some make it very hard.

The FW 350TC  available from PAC Machinery (US) is one of the smallest I know of. I do not know the price and I do not know anyone who has one and have no information on how easy it is to adjust or to use. This is solely based on size, which is what you appear to be most concerned about.

[/quote]

Does this machine use "bags" or rolls of stock sheet that feeds in the machine?

SO.

I do believe I've figured out how to actually temper with the not-so-precise precise heat mixing bowl. There's a 'chocolate' button on the bowl, but we've already decided it doesn't work the way that it should (since the bowl heats from the bottom and not around the bowl). So on the advice of you fine people here at Discover Chocolate, lol, I decided to play around with the settings to see if i could find something that works. I have, and I will share it with you just in case anyone wants to get one and doesn't want to go through the trials and tribulations of figuring it out   And hey - maybe someone will be doing a google search about it and find this post!

-Starting with a kilo of solid chocolate that has been chopped OR a kilo of chocolate drops/wafers -

1. Add 10% of chocolate to the mixing bowl and manually set the bowl to preheat to 135°F.

2. Melt 2/3 of the chocolate in the microwave.

At this point a some (if not most) of the chocolate in the bowl will have already melted. 

3. Add the chocolate that you melted in the microwave to the PHMB (<--- strong="">Precise H eat M ixing B owl) and set your mixer to stir.

4. Once the PHMB has completly melted all of the chocolate,  turn OFF the bowl as well as the mixer .  Check the temperature with a thermometer you trust.

5. When the bowl hits around 118° for dark, 110° for milk and white, add a handful of seed and wait for it to melt. 

6. One it has, turn the bowl back ON and set the temperature to about 95°F for dark chocolate and about 90°F for milk or white chocolate. 

7. Continue to add your seed chocolate,  a little bit  at a time. 

I've found it helps to be doing something else in the kitchen while youre doing this - haha.

8. Every time you add seed, wait for the temperature on the bowl to drop by...mayyyyybe, 2-3°, before adding the next bit of chocolate.

9. Once the bowl has hit the target temperature of 95° or 90°, check the temperature with your thermometer and (all fingers crossed) you should be in the right temperature zone for tempered chocolate (88-90 for dark and 84-86 for milk and white).

10. Stop the stirring, and only turn it on when the temperature (of the thermometer, not the bowl - because the bowl holds at the temperature you've set it to) of the chocolate (test the 'top' of the chocolate, since this is what cools first), dips below the range for the chocolate youve chosen to temper. The action of the stirring will....kick up, for lack of a better word, the warmer chocolate at the bottom of the bowl, and mix it in with the cooloer chocolate. Periodically stop stirring and check the temp with a thermometer to see if your back in range yet.

Now, I've tried the above method around 5 times, and each time it has worked for me. So HOPEFULLY, it can help someone else!!

Have fun and keep chocolating!!

-Lauren

Hi Wendy

Yes, I still have them. They weren't used that often, lightly for about a year. Let me know if you have any other questions. 

Cheers

Hi Dirke,

Are they still available and how long were they in use for?

Best,

Wendy

We have 1,000+ lbs of organic, fairtrade, cocoa butter warehoused in Ohio.

Purchased from Atlantic Cocoa last year.

Packed in 25 kg boxes. Asking price $4.10/lb.

If interested email miles@perfectfuel.com

Miles -

The best way to update a post like this is to "close" the old post by selecting "Closed" after clicking on the light bulb icon. That will let the old post age off gracefully. You can then post a new Classified with the updated information.

You are looking for what is called a flow wrapping machine. 

Prices are based on the size of the film that can be handled (width and length) as well the number of pieces per hour that can be wrapped ++ options that include not wrapping when there is no product present, metal detectors, and more. It's important to keep in mind that you don't get what you don't pay for. Skimping out on features at purchase could lead to production struggles.

One key aspect of the design to inquire about is the ease of changing the knives. Some models make it easy - some make it very hard.

The FW 350TC  available from PAC Machinery (US) is one of the smallest I know of. I do not know the price and I do not know anyone who has one and have no information on how easy it is to adjust or to use. This is solely based on size, which is what you appear to be most concerned about.

Cheers Clay, that looks like a great option! i will contact HCS today and see what sort of price they go for

These electric guns can be used to spray on large pans?

Ok so it's two different effects, I'm really curious to try both.

Thank you very much, that is really great insight! Now is time to experiment and see how it works out :D

I'll keep the ammount of colorant low then, I thought it was the other way around...

KREA Swiss thank you very much for your answer. I loved the effects of your gun and I'll keep your information in mind.

Cheers.

900 lbs of Organic Fairtade Cocoa Powder.

Warehoused in Ohio in 50 lb bags.

Natural powder. Not single origin. Selling at $2.30/ lb

Shipping not included.

If interested please email miles@perfectfuel.com

This cocoa butter is still available. 1,300 lbs

Our price has come down slightly to $4.10/lb.

Let me know if interested.

We still have 100 molds available at this price.

Please let me know if you are interested in these great priced molds.

When an item is bought or sold, please mark it is as such.

On the Forum page there is an icon of a light bulb. 

Click on it and select a status from among the list.

For Sale items should be marked SOLD.

Wanted to Buy items should be marked COMPLETED.

If your need is URGENT you can mark it as such after it's posted.

Thank you.

I think the issue here is that David is dealing with a government procurement process and the government is in Colombia.

There is probably no budget for a consultant to make sense of what has been specified and it may not be possible to move money around between line items even if the items or wrong or the money can be better spent in other ways.

Right or wrong, that may be the reality of the situation David faces.