Forum Activity for @Clay

Mark -

Raw and Modican chocolate are not necessarily the same thing. 

The whole idea with raw is to purposefully keep the temperature below a certain degree with the specific intent of not killing "living enzymes" or reducing the nutrient content of the beans.

Modican chocolate is a specific style that pre-dates the industrial revolution. It was very difficult to apply enough pressure to reduce particle size. I have never heard that temperature was a control point for Modican chocolate. Can you point me to some manufacturers that state this? Doña Elvira? Antica Dolceria Bonajuto?

Where is the mill located? And who is the maker?

Remember that NIR is VERY matrix dependent (and temperature dependent).  Be sure you have a calibration curve for each type of chocolate that you're plan to run (ie, a generic 'milk chocolate' calibration won't be very accurate for all milk chocolates, and certainly not for dark or white chocolates).  Run all your samples at a fixed temperature (including the plate the samples will sit on - probably easiest to get a small warming oven and set it to 50C and just keep everything inside of it).

good luck!

Hi Sebastian,

Thank you for your opinion.

I will need to do about about 3 on average and a maximum of 7 test per day, over 2 shifts so I may start with gravimetric and if this takes too much time buy the instruments. Based on your point about impact of metal content on results NIR looks like a better option.

Peter 

*NEW PRICE*

Profitable, award-winning, bean-to-bar craft chocolate start-up in New Hampshire for sale: $99,000. Motivated seller (moving out of country).

Detailed Information

Inventory: Included in asking price. Facilities: Newly renovated 1500 square foot facility with all new manufacturing equipment, handicapped accessible bathroom, and ample parking. Competition: Prime location in historic downtown area. We are the only small-batch bean-to bar chocolate manufacturer in the state. Growth & Expansion: This start-up business carries tremendous upside potential to grow as an internationally renowned brand in a short time because of the steadily growing demand for ethically sourced craft chocolate, the top level quality of our product, and the unique integrity of our process. Support & Training: Seller is committed to providing a minimum of three weeks hands-on training to the buyer.

Hi, The 3 Roll Mill is still available, may you be interested.. Kind regards, Ewald Rietberg. It has mirror polished and hardened SS316 rollers, and a safety frill on top. CE certified and one year guarantee. Costs 1680 dollar excl shipping. Regards, Ewald Rietberg (ewaldmrietberg@gmail.com)

Here's the instruction manual.  I would talk to Luc at Bakon USA for the replacement part.

Hope this helps,

Erin

Chocotec60Instructions.pdf - 377KB

Hi Jennifer (thanks David), full disclosure, I sell the Diamond Custom Machines Commercial Refiner in both 70 and 100 lb capacity.  I would be more than happy to answer any questions you have.

You can PM me here but may have a quicker response if you send an email to info@indichocolate.com (no spam please).

Thanks,

Erin

I would be interested in attending too, especially if it could be coordinated with other cacao events happening in Colombia.

When I receive my beans I open the bags and do a quick clean before putting them in sealed bins.  This has really helped reduce problems.

If it looks like moths could be a problem I use dry ice at the top of the bin in a dish.  This has worked well for me.

If you want the Chocolate Refiners mentioned, they are available at http://indichocolate.com/products/chocolate-refiner?variant=7781420993

Sorry I didn't see this post sooner. I sell the upgraded belts as well as better gears for the demands of making chocolate on my website ( http://indichocolate.com/products/chocolate-machine-replacement-parts?variant=1168767445).

Thanks, Erin!

Keep in touch.  indi chocolate is the bean to bar chocolate maker in PIke Place Market.  We'll be moving to a bigger facility in the Market next year...

I don't know about larger machines, but if you like the Premiers, there are these versions which have been "upgraded" specifically for chocolate making:

http://indichocolate.com/products/chocolate-refiner?variant=7781420993

Chat to them about gears etc as well - I think they have improved gears and belts for the standard Premiers.

Hey guys,

I'm glad you wanted to resurrect this thread as I am soon to be in the market for a new Melangeur. I have been running two Premiers for over a year. The gears keep wearing down though, and they struggle with how fast I want to add the nibs (which I sometimes pre-grind). 

However I love the quality of Chocolate they can produce. My biggest worry is that a Santha or other machine under $5k might not refine down to a small particle... under 20micron... ?

Also worried about the other issues you have all pointed out. Does anyone have a decent machine they acquired for less than $5k?

I have considered buying 2 more Premier and just paying someone to upgrade all the gear parts... I am able to load them up 4kg each... so that would be 16kg and the premiers are only around $400 each delivered... but Im sure the running costs would be less for a single 20kg machine.

hi,

just a quick question which has been bothering me a little. isn't "RAW chocolate" another word for "Modica chocolate"?

RAW chocolate is a 'cold-process' type of chocolate, and so is Modica Chocolate.

Modica chocolate is made from cocoa paste which is heated at 40 deg, mixed with sugar and put in molds when it reaches 30 deg.

Am I missing something?

Thanks

@ben-rasmussen or anyone else who might be able to help me troubleshoot this - I thought the chocolate turned out perfect. However, when I poured it out, I could see a very slight pooling of oil on the surface of the chocolate. It's almost imperceptible, and I haven't noticed an off taste at all. I rinsed the machine with hot water, and let that water cool in a jar, and this cooled chocolate water also has a very subtle congealed something on the surface. (like cooled fat, but less than tissue-thin). I'm planning to take the whole thing apart and clean, plus reseal the epoxy. But I'll feel better if I can also determine what this oil is. I've contacted the former owner to see if it had anything else run through (vegetable oil for cleaning, nuts, lecithin, etc). Ideas about how to identify what this is? 

When calculating it's important to know that cocoa beans generally range in fat from 47-53%. Most chocolate manufacturers don't provide the ratio fat to non-fat solids, including any added cocoa butter in their recipes. You can get this information on most commercial couvertures by asking the manufacturer. However, if you do not actually test the bean (or liquor) you don't know the precise fat content so it's impossible to know the ratio of fat to non-fat solids in your product -- and hence, calories from fat and other nutritional data.

James: 

Cocoa mass == cocoa liquor == chocolate liquor == ground up cocoa (nib) with nothing added.

To make cocoa butter/cocoa powder, you put the cocoa mass/liquor into a press and apply heat and pressure to separate them.

Everything from the cocoa bean is technically a cocoa solid. There are two types of solids:

1. Non-fat cocoa solids (the powder with zero fat)
2. Fat (cocoa butter is solid at room temperature)

i did actually try searching the forums a bit earlier, but not a lot came up, will maybe do a bit more digging then.

Thanks for your reply though, that does clear it up for me.

Think it has largely been confusing terminology. found this online, let me know if you agree with it.

http://chocolateincontext.blogspot.co.uk/2007/08/chocolate-linguistics-2-cocoa-mass-v.html

so:

cocoa solids = anything that has come from a cocoa bean, be it the amount of actual beans you use and/or any added extra cocoa butter. Which would tie in with what you said about white chocolate

cocoa mass = 'the brown part' produced from pressing the liquour/solids i.e. cocoa powder

This has been discussed in some detail elsewhere on these forums. You could do a search and find a bunch of threads dealing with it.

The cacao percentage of a chocolate includes both non-fat cacao solids and cocoa butter. Technically, a 70% bar could be made up of any of the following:

• 70% nibs, 0% added CB
• 0% nibs, 70% CB 
• anywhere inbetween the above two

So, I would probably say that the statement that there are no cacao solids in white chocolate is incorrect. I suppose you could have a 70% cacao white chocolate, but I'd imagine it would be pretty gross.  :)

Thanks Ben!!

enna

hi Ben thanks so much for the reply.

So even though the 5% cocoa butter is an added extra to original 70% bean mix it gets included into the overall cocoa solids %?

Yet in white chocolate its said there is no cocoa solids, but its made using cocoa butter. So how can cocoa butter be classed as part of the cocoa solids when added extra into dark chocolate?

Would that then mean that 'cocoa solids' actually refer to what is essentially 'cocoa powder' that makes up 1/2 the cocoa bean? If thats the case then a 70% dark chocolate should actually be classed as a 35% cocoa solids?

It's something that has been plaguing me, and now got me horribly confused

Sorry - one more thing that's relevant - how many/how often do you expect to do this testing? If it's once a day, i'd say go gravimetric.  You'll need gravimetric to validate the calibration curves of the instruments anyway.  If you need to run 5 samples every hour - than you'd  need a small army of tech to prepare the samples, and an instrument's your way to go.

It sounds like there could be a crack in the epoxy somewhere. Once you finish this batch, clean the machine really well and then reseal with a food-safe epoxy. You may want or need to chip the old epoxy first. Good luck!

The first would be a 75% cacao chocolate. The second would be a 70%.

Lots of pros and cons here.  A few highlights to consider:

NMR and NIR will be be expensive instruments to acquire ($50-90k?).

NMR can be heavily influenced by metals content - so your process becomes very important.  IE if you have a ball/attritor mill, the media will abrade off small pieces of metal and will impact your results.  

NIR is heavily matrix and temperature dependent - you'll need to have a robust calibration curve for accuracy.  Actually that's true with NMR as well.

If you have the funds to spend, and the expertise to create and maintain a calibration curve - i prefer the NIR, as you can calibrate it to predict other things as well.  I've never used Oxford instruments specifically, but that they indicate in their literature that you only need 2 calibration points would concern the hell out of me.

A 3rd option is gravimetric extraction.  Grinding your sample up, extracting the lipids with a solved, evaporating the solvent, and measuring what's left behind.  Far less expensive up front costs, but you are now dealing with a solvent, and the consistency of the tech doing the prep work is important.

Hi everyone,

Curious about how to calculate the %'s in bean to bar chocolate, if making a 70% bar that needs maybe 5% added cocoa butter would the recipe be:

70% cocoa beans (35%cocoa+35%butter)

25% sugar

5% butter

OR:

65% cocoa beans (32.5%cocoa+32.5%butter)

30% sugar

5% butter

I suppose my main question is whether by adding extra cocoa butter comes under the total cocoa solids/beans %, or an added extra like sugar?

So for the two example recipes i posted, would the first be a 70% chocolate, and the 2nd be a 65% chocolate? or are they both 70% chocolates?

Hope this makes sense, and someone can put my mind at rest.

Hi Sebastian,

I understand that by NIR you mean Near Infrared Transmission Spectroscopy. 

I need to set up a lab which will be able to do reasonably accurate (no more accurate than +/- 0.5%) measurements of cocoa butter content in cocoa mass.

We use blends of in house processed beans in our recipes and I need to adjust mixer contents to variation of cocoa butter in the beans to improve chocolate consistency. I have just started to look around for solutions and uncle Google shows this:

https://www.oxford-instruments.com/OxfordInstruments/media/industrial-analysis/magnetic-resonance-pdfs/Determination-of-Total-Fat-Content-in-Chocolate-and-other-Cocoa-Derivatives.pdf

Would you have an opinion on which method would work better?

Peter

Sure - put it into a calibrated NIR and push the start button.  

I assume you mean an inexpensive, easily accessible way for the home user?  No. Perhaps make friends with a local university and ask them to make it a class project to calibrate their equipment to your product, in exchange for some free product...

I'm resurrecting this thread as I haven't found the answer elsewhere. I'm trying to develop my MacGyver skills... Can anyone offer a solution to the spectra 20 (the old red one) leaking from the center? there's a pool of chocolate under the machine (about 6 oz so far, 24 hrs in). This machine has to at least make enough chocolate to pay for a better machine. This is my first batch in this machine, so when it's finished I'll be able to empty it, clean it, and perhaps (hopefully) it just needs to have everything tightened....

Thank you!

It actually works pretty well - as long as the room and chocolate isn't too hot

I wonder if anyone knows of an easy way to measure cocoa butter content in cocoa liquor, or in chocolate

So I redid this test at a higher temp (250 - 3 hrs) and with the two organic sugars I tested there was no change. Even so, though the weight did not change, I noted that one of the two became very static while the other clumped a lot more - I can't help but wonder if the staticky one is drier. The one that appears more moist upon hearing caused my choco to seize in the grinder, so I'm looking for an alternative organic brand. 

I was gifted two blocks of gianduja, a Callebut milk that was opened with a best by date was in March, the other a Valrhona dark with a packaged date of july 2014 and a best by date of July of last year.  Should I toss them?  The Callebut seems fine.  

I have a hard time finding gianduja so this is a big deal.  I usually make my own,

Thank you! I did this over the weekend but I don't think my oven was warm enough - will try again tonight.

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the heads up, i got shipping confirmation today and requested tracking details so hopefully i can gauge when its going to arrive and be ready to collect. I just hope it turns up to an airport nearby. Also got crate size and weight details in case i turned up with a van to small. Thanks again, huge help.