Forum Activity for @Miguel Pujols

Hello Tudose, what you heard (conche and tempering machines is enough) is completely wrong. As you know there are other things VERY IMPORTANT to produce chocolate that need to be done before conching and tempering, for example grinding.

Considering that you want to produce 50kg/day and you must grind/refine for at least 20 hours to have a consistent chocolate flavor, you must get a refiner with those capabilities, you could get a Spectra 65 or a Cocoatown ECGC-65, that would allow you to grind, refine and conch at the same time and they are called "universals" because of that.

As for tempering you can purchase a ChocoVision X3210 which will give you around 45kg per day (more if you use the Holey Baffle).

Remember that you must consider also that you must roast, crack and winnow the cacao beans, and more importantly you must storage the finished chocolate carefully, so those are other machinery you must find out and I can't really provide any advise on.

Hello,

I`m happy to be here and i would like to ask all of you for some advices.

I want to build a chocolate factory to make chocolate from cacao beans to sell it to buisnesses that work with chocolate.

If someone can give me a list of the minimum requiered equipment for a small scale production like 50 kg / day.

links and info are verry apreciated.

I heard that i can start with only 2 machines a tempering machine and a conche machine. Are those enaugh?

What ordinary machines can i use instead of the professional ones that are verry expensive to complete each step of the chocolate making from cacao beans.

Soo long story short i would like to know what are the needed steppes and equipment to make chocolate at a small scale crom cacao beans.

not sure Ruth, will investigate. Lots of friends have these new fangled things and I was curious

cheers

Deborah

Hi Deborah,

You probably have a solution that works for you, but here is what I ended up doing.I have an inexpensive system for melting that works well. I bought a 4 qt. round crock pot (slow cooker) and instead of using the ceramic bowl I use a tall stainless steel *bowl that fits into the crock pot (it does not fit all the way in, about half way). I then plug the crock pot into a the sous vide electric temperature control Clay mentioned, which I bought from Amazon for $99US, and I melt 3 to 4 pound batches of chocolate in it. Works great. In order to temper I take the bowl out of the crock pot and put it on the table, and then I use a table fan to cool it. It works quite well.

Mack

*the bowl is the mixing bowl that went to an electric mixer.

Is a Thermoblend the same as a Thermomix? If so, it works beautifully.

Thanks Clay, was just wondering. Not in a position to purchase pro kitchen equipment as yet.

cheers

Deborah

Deborah:

I can't recommend any of the home kitchen units in a professional kitchen because you don't get what you don't pay for.

There is a unit that is designed for the pro kitchen - the HotMix Pro . Advanced Gourmet is the rep here in the US for these units. I'd contact the manufacturer and see who the Australian rep is.

This may be a big no no but has anyone tried using a Thermoblend to melt/warm chocolate?

Deborah

That makes sense and wondered if that was the case. The sugar has a creamy brown color when I start and is specks of white on the finished chocolate. I guess the heat pulls the molasses out.

yes, it can make sense. - When the sugar dissolves it will fit into the nooks and crannies of the cocoa particles thus making the product more dense.

That is a pretty large increase for simply adding sugar. I don't have much experience working with chocolate formulations, but when you add one cup of sugar to one cup of water, you end up with less than two cups of syrup. It should be the same process. Thus, I believe the syrup is more dense (heavy) than either the sugar or water alone.

I started molding 3.5 oz (100 g) half cacao pods of liquor and after speaking with a distributor wants us to add sugar. I did a test batch with 38% pure cane sugar and 62% liquor. The four pieces I molded all were 4 oz. with the exact same mold. Before I we run another label, is this standard that the same size piece with sugar would weigh .5 oz. more. Thanks

Great thanks!

I also use this to make small batches, but I haven'trequired the use of a hairdryer/additional heat. I use about 350g and add enough sugar to make 70% or so.

Thanks for the response! Yea that's what I was worried about. I guess I'll have to experiment.

I have used that machine for a 500g batch of chocolate (ie., combination of sugar and nibs). It is tricky and you need to keep on top of it - basically you need to make sure enough heat is kept on the nibs and rollers to keep everything moving. I use a heat gun (paint stripper) or hairdryer.

I'm just starting out and own a Premier Wonder Grinder like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Premier-Wonder-Table-Grinder-110v/dp/B004OPIBV2

Does anyone have any experience with micro-batches? I'm testing different roasting times and want to use the minimal amount of nibs possible. I don't want to have to use 1kg all at once if I don't have to. I've been experimenting with 2oz batches in my molcajete but obviously the grinding times are limited by what my arm can do (roughly 90 mins).

Hi Arainna,

I would definitely consider the class if it taught advanced decorating techniques. If it is basic moulding, I would not go.

Anjali

I'm planning a quick trip to Orlandoto visit friends. I see that Norman Love is offeringhis "molded candy" class while I'm there. Has anyone taken this class? Is it worth the 6 hour round trip drive to Fort Myers? I'm a TOTAL newbie but would hate to miss an amazing opportunity. I'd love any and all suggestions. Thanks!!

After FIKA, you can walk to Kee's and four others in the general vicinity.

Kee's Chocolates

59 th street Food Emporium has a great selection as does 2 Beans. NYC is loaded with great chocolate shops representing numerous styles and countries, but most of what they carry can be ordered on line, for chocolate experiences that you can not order on line, stop by;

FIKA on Washington street, but only if you get to see them make chocolate

CACAO PRIETO in Red Hook, make sure that you ask them for a tour. Their equipment and factory are super cool, as is the distillery.

The smell in Mast Brothers alone is enough to warrant recommending a visit. Not being a huge fan of Bean 2 Barianism myself and caring little for the home ground delicacies, I must admit that the smell of roasting cocoa beans is incredible, addictive and works really well with the vibe of the place.

Sugar and Plumm has a very cute shop on the Upper West side, and their creme brulee cookie ( although devoid of chocolate) is to die for.

Eataly NYC has a great Italian selection and some of the cutest local chocolate bunnies in the city as well as adorable chocolate surprise eggs.

Could be better but they don't always listen to me so have to work with what I got.

What about Food Emporium?

405 East 59th Street
New York, NY 10022
Phone 212.752.5836

Location: 59thand 1st

How is there chocolate selection these days?

FIKA 450 Washington Street

Roni Sue's on Forsyth new shop

2 Beans-100 Park Ave-41 Street

The Meadow-523 Hudson Street

Bedford Cheese shop-18/19 Street-Irving Street

LA Burdick-5 East 20th Street

Mast Brothers Chocolate Factory-Williamsburg

Fair Way and Whole Foods has some good selections of bars

There are also confection/bonbon shops which you can google

I'm heading to Manhattan for a week in March. Any chocolate shops that are absolutely not to be missed? Thanks!

Where in SEA are you going to be? Note that in much of that part of the world, it's not a part of their agricultural culture to ferment beans, and knowledge about things such as cocoa pod borer and bean maturity are very low. If you give a sense of where you're traveling, i can help you better understand what to expect and what to look for. Moisture and fermentation level may be the least of your concerns, depending on region...

Thank you Sebastian for your useful answer.

I go to south east asia find and buy some beans, so I wanted to be able to control at least if the beans are dry enough and well fermented. I just check the Mini GAC 2100 and it looks like it is what i was looking for. I found this one to http://www.farmcomp.fi/en/wile/products/wile-coffee so now the price will help me do the final choice.

And I will forget the guillotine I know it cost a fortune like 1000$ so I will use a good old fashion knife, or i was thinking maybe i could use that http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000RLJED6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE . It has a wider and flat base as bottom blade so it might work and it is much lighter.

Do you think of anything else I could need?

Thanks you very much.

Delcour, what is it you're looking to accomplish? If you're looking to understand if potential vendors are sufficiently drying their beans, the items you note could work for that - but i've never used those ones personally. I have had great success in working with Dickey John Mini GAC units - and it should be noted that the units you've posted (and the mini gac) will likely require a calibration curve to be loaded for it to correctly interpret the 'atmosphere' around the grain or seeds that it specifically is being used for - so you'll want to look closely at those units to see if they've got cacao specific calibration curves available. Alternatively, i know folks have also used aqua boy moisture meters - and i've tried them myself, but find them far too bulky and less accurate, plus i had to answer a lot of silly security questions when airport police scanned my luggage.

I'd concur with Brad on the value of a good knife. a guillotine may be useful for you to do an assessment at home quickly, but you'll find it very expensive and a knife will give you the same results.

I never could figure out why a person would need to be traipsing around the world with a guillotine. A sharp knife is a much more versatile tool and works just as well.

...just sayin'

Hello everyone,

I will take off on may to go find some cacao beans to start my business, I will need an moisture meter to be able to control the beans. Can someone advise me about which one to get. I found those ones on ebay will they do the job?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Grain-moisture-tester-rice-corn-wheat-barley-oat-USA-/221264440374?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3384636c36

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/sinar-moisture-meter-/321344659865?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item4ad1a26199

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DRAMINSKI-TWIST-GRAIN-hygrometer-Portable-moisture-meter-for-seeds-grains-/170930553557?pt=UK_BOI_FarmingEquipment_RL&hash=item27cc4142d5

And by the way if you also know where to get a guillotine at decent price, that will be wonderful.

Will I need something else?

Thank you very much by advance for your precious help.

Thomas

Thanks for the suggestions, Tom. Let me give that a try on my next test batch. Agreed on the powdered sugar not being a good choice -- the added starch alone is a show-stopper. Best wishes on your broken collar bone -- wishing you a speedy recover.

All the best,
David

Here is what I have found using the Spectra 10. Refine your cocoa liquor first down to desired size, this is quick as nibs are soft in comparison to sugar. Then add your other ingredients, I find this produces a better chocolate texture. Using this technique I find using large crystal raw sugar is best, using powdered sugar makes a thick paste and slows your grinder down and extends grind time. I would like to explain more but I shattered my dominant side collar bone and this typing one handed lark is irritating. Just do it, it works, test for yourself. Cheers

Hi Sebastian,

I'm afraid I've been guilty of measuring my chocolate with the same delicate touch I've used for years to measure steel pin gauges -- time to un-learn / re-learn. I wasn't aware that you could get a micrometer with a pressure gauge -- I'll dig into getting one of those for sure.

On the sugar, the finest I've been able to find here without starch is bakers sugar. I haven't been able to find powdered or icing sugar without starch. I've played with pre-grinding it in a blender or food processor, but it's not something I could easily scale. Is there anything finer than bakers sugar that is widely available?

Thanks for the education on the ICUMSA scale -- I wasn't aware of that -- and thank you, as well, for taking the time to share on this forum with those of us still on the steep part of the learning curve.

Regards,
David

Thanks, Brad -- I like simple solutions! Good point on the Santha. I've enjoyed the challenge of learning to make chocolate from what I could reasonably cobble together, but along with doing it that way comes learning the hard (and sometimes slow) way what compromises you have unwittingly signed up for.

We do have some room to tighten the wheels down more, and we've only been running around 30-36 hours on most batches, so we have still go longer, too.

Thanks again for the help -- I'll let you know on this thread how we make out.

Best,

David

Dave - a micrometer can be a very precise tool, but you have to know how to use it, and have to have one that is accurate enough. I can make any micrometer read 8um if i turn it hard enough (it'll crush whatever's in there) - adding a pressure gauge can help rectify that. Also, dispersing your chocolate in 3 parts mineral oil will also give you a much more accurate reading on it.

Regarding sugar, the biggest impact will be on the starting size of your sugar. Organic refined sugar is going to chemically be identically to non-organically refined sugar (almost always). The larger the starting granulation, the more problematic. The second most important element will be the color of the sugar -sugars are measured with what's called an ICUMSA scale. The higher that ICUMSA number, the more 'dirty' the sugar is, and the greater the impact on your product. White table sugar is somewhere between 20-50 ICUMSA, for reference. "Turbinado" and similar sugars may have ICUMSA ratings of over 400.

Simple solution: put more pressure on the wheels and conche longer.

Remember: The Santha was never designed to make chocolate. You may need to leave it in the machine a lot longer than you would expect. 48-72 hours is not unrealistic.

Cheers

Brad

Following is a recent post from our "Shared Journey" discussion in the Start-up Central Group:

Still struggling with the texture of our chocolate. It's better since we started using the micrometer to make sure the max particle size is sub-25 microns, but still "powdery" (not actually gritty, but definitely not smooth like it should be). Seeking the wisdom of the crowd and those who have gone before. We're doing our conching/refining in a Santha 11, if that helps. We're running some tests on (improvised) conching after refining, improving our tempering, adding cocoa butter (some of our chocolate is a lot more viscous than others). Any thoughts for which rocks to turn over first??

Since posting this I (think) I've figured out that our "sub-25 micron" chocolate really isn't. Using a micrometer to measure the maximum particle size is not incredibly precise -- and the biggest variable so far has been....me. If I stop at the first sign of resistance I'm measuring more like 30 microns. Up until now I've been using the micrometer the way I always have, but it appears that with chocolate you can very easily crush a 30+ micron particle and get a reading quite a bit below what you really have.

I'm also interested in hearing what you think about sugar as a factor (or not) in final texture. We've tried several different organic sugars, as well as highly refined table sugar, and I'm wondering if the organic sugars behave differently because of what isn't removed.

Would love to hear your thoughts, trials, and tribulations!

Cheers,

David

I will commence distributing bars to candy stores and my second line option are pastry/bakery shops that targets middle class.

The chocolate bars are 1 onz., 4 flavors all in a single stand with one dozen each. The chocolate is premium quality, they are really great and my focus are the marginal flavors not found at supermarket and already study market as top picks. Regarding package is really bland, just a cellophane with a top sticker. The pretend number are 50 bars per month in each store.

I will like to know how you appreciated this concept and if chocolate at this type of stores is a good idea? Has anyone try this and which has been your experience?

Hello Everyone,

This is my first time posting and I am very excited as I have just started my chocolate journey. I have recently made my first batch of chocolate and I am looking for some feedback on ways to improve everything about my process. So here is goes...

I am using a CocoaTown ECGC-12SL melanger. I have decided not to roast my beans (a discussion for later as I would like to hear people's thoughts on roasting vs non-roasting).

So from the un-roasted cocoa nib (I did 400g of them) I then ground them into a fine paste and put them in the melanger. After 12 hours of them being ground down they were at the liquid stage, and I then added 120g (30% by weight) of sugar that I had pre-whipped in a food processor to make it powdered sugar to the melanger. After another 3 hours I stopped the machine and decided the chocolate was at the stage I wanted it.

when I stuck my spoon into the still liquid chocolate I was surprised that it was not half bad for my first try but at the same time it stuck to my teeth in a DRY-like manner. I am not quite sure how to explain it, it was not gummy or unrefined (it was very smooth without any large sugar or nib pieces) but it had this dry like quality.

So I decided to temper it anyways and placed it in molds. The next day I came back to taste the chocolate again and it still had this dry texture that usually presented itself on the second bite of a piece. I am not sure if I may need to add more cocoa butter to smooth this out of what.

Like a I said before my chocolate only has the nibs (a crillio variety) and powdered sugar (I powered it myself). Could it possibly be that because I powdered the sugar myself that this dry quality came into effect?

Thank you very much in advance, this forum is a an incredible crucible of knwledge!

-Ian H.

Email me: louie@nohmadsnackco.com

I might be able to help you.

Louie

Nate, welcome to The Chocolate Life! There are quite a number of LA chocolatiers - your best bet may be to research them and reach out individually.

We made a Pinterest map of the chocolatiers and chocolate makers we know about. This mayhelp get you started!

http://www.pinterest.com/chocolatetour/los-angeles-chocolate/