Legally protecting your chocolate brand?
Posted in: Opinion
but those are the steps that you must take if you need to protect your brand 
Forum Activity for @rene
Legally protecting your chocolate brand?
Posted in: Opinion
Hi all,
Could anyone share the steps they had to take to legally protect their chocolate brand? I understand each country has different laws and getting worldwide protection may be a costly proposition for an artisan chocolate maker.
Thanks!
Felipe
updated by @Felipe Jaramillo F.: 04/21/15 02:26:15
Cooking milk powder
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Interesting stuff guys - thanks. The notion of H202 as a preservative in a highly oxidative susceptibility product such as milk powder is strange to me at first blush, given that H202 is SUCH a strong oxidizer. Certainly it's an effective microbiological suppressant, but it'll absolutely destroy the flavor of the fat in the milk. There are much, much better ways to protect quality than the use of this. My guess - it's the cheap option!
Ramya - many modern chocolate factories are still using stone grinders, which are quite effective - so just because something's old doesn't mean it's not useful 8-) For something like H2O2 in milk it surprises me as there are much more effective ways to do the same thing, w/o making it taste bad.
Cooking milk powder
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
I think it is what we are still practising in india. Because when i use some batches of milk powder despite the brand some times it taste aweful , when i asked my supplier he told that it is because of the preservative . so before i am purchasing milk powder i always taste it to make sure that, the batch is good. ( I am not a techinical person to do the lab test). sebastian you are wondering if it was some historical practice , if you know that some of our most modern technologys are that, west practiced it some 200 years before,then how much you wonder about..??
sebatian, i like to read your postings and replys, with thorough knowledge and sceince
omar, the information you given is very useful , thank you.
Cooking milk powder
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Hi Sebastian,
With my experience, H2O2 is still used in processing milk powder at least for warm climate countries like here in the middle east(Im assuming india as well)Every batch we receive from our supplier gets tested for percentage of peroxidemaking sure it does not excees 0.04%. When it does exceed, the taste gets affected leaving a slight old cheese after taste..I wish I know how to better describe it. So, to answer your question, peroxide is still in business.
Cooking milk powder
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Interesting document - i've never seen this actually practiced in western milk plants, nor in New Zealand. Is this common practice in India? Looks like it's an early 60's publication.. i didn't read nearly the whole thing (only 1 page) so i'm certain i've missed context - i'm wondering if it might have been historical practice?
I would say that I'm *completely* unconcerned with H202 levels in modern chocolate processing....
Cooking milk powder
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Thank You Omar will have a look..
Cooking milk powder
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Hi Chirag,
Milk powder contains a chemical called hydrogen peroxide (H2O2). H2O2 is an oxidizing,bleaching and germicidal agent used to preserve milk. The percentage of peroxide in milk powder can vary from one brand to another and because its presence in milk affects the taste, it might be the challenge you are facing with your chocolate today.
Attached is a study made on hydrogen peroxide and milk powder. On page 427 You can find a detailed description onthe effects of H2O2 on the taste of milk powder.
http://whqlibdoc.who.int/monograph/WHO_MONO_48_(p423).pdf" target="_blank"> http://whqlibdoc.who.int/monograph/WHO_MONO_48_(p423).pdf
hope this helps..
Omar
Cooking milk powder
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
hi chirag,
instead of 'everyday' you can try 'nova whole milk powder' that works better. before you are mixing milk powder you must taste it to ensure that it is not salty. because some baches of milk powder tends to be salty. every day is a dairy whitener not milk powder.it contains added sugar also. for any other clarification you can write to me at mannachoco@gmal.com.
Cooking milk powder
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Thanks Felipe will try using ghee.. sounds like an interesting idea.
Thanks Sebastian that makes sense.
Cooking milk powder
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Store brand milk powders in India are often fortified with additional calories by adding vegetable fats to them. Often times those fats are susceptible to oxidative randicity. Might want to check your supply to see if that's causing the off flavor.
And a note, cooking milk powder in cocoa butter will likely only increase the off flavor. In order get generate the caramel flavors, you need 3 things: protein, reducing sugar, and water. Cooking in cocoa butter means you wont have the latter, and lots of heat, generally speaking, does bad things to the flavor of fats.
Cooking milk powder
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Chirag, nice to hear from milk chocolate makers worldwide.
You can try to get some caramelized flavor by substituting the milk fat in whole milk powder with Ghee. Take whole milk powder by weight (100%) and substitute with 72% skim milk powder and 28% ghee. Make sure that it has no traces of moisture by heating it above the water's boiling point.
I am one of those who believe smaller bean-to-bar chocolate makers are in debt to Indian cousine forever based on the quality of wet grinder engineering.
Felipe
Cooking milk powder
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Thanks for the knowledge Antonino
I live in India so my chocolate wasnt being compared to swiss chocolate..
i use nestle "everyday" brand of milk powder which is 18% fat content..
the reason i thought about cooking the powder was because i read about milk crumb which adds a cooked/caramel flavour to chocolate
i am a newbie using a stone wet grinder(santha) to refine and conch. i dont know what temperature the chocolate reaches in it.. but will now try to find a good ir thermometer to measure it..
i like thinking out of the box so do you think its possible to cook/caramalise the milk powder in cocoa butter or will thatreleasemoisture which will cause the chocolate to seize.
Cooking milk powder
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Hi There,
milk powder is already "cooked".. is made either by "rolling" milk into a big heated cylinder and then scraped off, or by spraying milk into a hot chamber to vaporize the water.
The differences between milk powders are generally : Fat content (use a 20%), what kind of cows, season, area of growth (fed with green grass, hay or whatever) ,production system.
What system of making chocolate you do use, what temperature, how do you grind/insert the milk powder to the chocolate and mailny what quality of milk you are using will affect the final taste of your product.
Do not compare to swiss milk chocolate (unless you live there), their cows make a very mild milk, and they add malt to the milk powder....
If you cook the milk powder in cocoa butter you will end up with caramel...... then we are in a different game...
Cooking milk powder
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
So i recently made a batch of 45% milk chocolate. The problem is that most people who tasted it said it had a raw(ish) milk taste to it, which theydidn'tlike.
That got me thinking if could i possibly roast the milk powder or maybe cook it in a little cocoa butter.
any suggestions??
updated by @Chirag Bhatia: 04/11/25 09:27:36
Help with blank transfer sheets for printing on chocolate
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Hi margaret can i ask how long you leave the sheets in the fridge til you demold them, i had problems exactly the same , i found leaving them overnight helped quite a bit,also another problem i have found with the starch sheets depends what batch you get some work better than others, i only use cocoa butter ones now from chocolate world they seem to work, ive costed the price of a new printer against the cost of wasted sheets, and a new printer every 6 months or so at a cost of around 40.00 is a savings.
Help with blank transfer sheets for printing on chocolate
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
It's been a while since I bought them, and I may be wrong, but what I can remember is that they are coated with a mixture of cocoa butter, gelatin, maybe some type of egg white? I can't find the info I had, but it's supposed to be a mixture of ingredients.
My thought is that since the sheets you are using don't contain cocoa butter or other fat, it doesn't melt into the chocolate when it's applied. So, it's not adhering.
Help with blank transfer sheets for printing on chocolate
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
thanks Heather, I'm sorry you're having as much trouble as I am - I feel your pain.
I've gone through 4 sets of sheets.
I did find a tutorial on another companys website - i cant remember whose - that said
Print on "glossy photo" setting
Decrease the contrast/intensity by 10 -15% (i'm guessing this is so it sits on the surface more)
Wait 1 hour after printing
have the chocolate over 90 degrees.
Wait till completely set to peel off.
I've done all this and still it's very sketchy results. Would you please post what KopyKake tells you.
They must have heard from many more than us with complaints and hopefully they're addressing it.
Help with blank transfer sheets for printing on chocolate
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
I bought the starch sheets from KopyKake a month ago - the ink prints on to them perfectly, but I've had a ZERO percent success rate at seven attempts transfer on to perfectly tempered chocolate. I've tried the upper temperature range, and no luck. I've put in a call to KopyKake also, and am waiting to hear back, but I'm not hopeful about what advice they'll give. It just doesn't seem to work. Sorry I can't add any helpful advice, but I'll be reading this thread as well to gain some!
Help with blank transfer sheets for printing on chocolate
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Thanks Robin - can you tell me if the sheets you're using are the cocoa butter coated or the starch/sugar coated ones.
Help with blank transfer sheets for printing on chocolate
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
I purchased my sheets from Tomric. I have never had any problems with the sheets, but have seen comments from others stating that they had gotten a bad batch, but others were fine.
The last inks I bought were from www.photofrost.com . I've had good luck with them. There is also www.tastyfotoart.com .
The main thing I've noticed is that the chocolate has to be at the high end of the temper range so that it is warm enough to have the image adhere.
I just print normally, using the best print option. I allow the sheets to dry about 1/2 hour, and mold as usual. I'm thinking unless you just got a bad batch of sheets, it's the chocolate that's causing you problems.
Help with blank transfer sheets for printing on chocolate
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
I am sooo frustrated!! with the failure rate of the blank transfer sheets
I would love to hear your experiences.
From what I understand we have two options with blank transfer sheets, 1. cocoa butter and 2. starch,sugar,emulsifier sheets.
I really want the want the sugar starch sheets to work - mostly because you can purchase in warmer months, storage and shelf life issues and I feel they're less likely to gunk up the printer.
But for the life of me I am having about a 50% failure rate and these sheets cost WAY too much ($2.00 a sheet) for that type of loss.
I have tried reducing the contrast 10% and still about 1/2 the "ink" remains on the sheet giving me a partial transfer.
I contacted KopyKake and while they got back to me right away their only suggestion was to make sure the chocolate was "warm enough"
I am using kopykake "inks" and allowing the sheets to dry at least an hour after printing before attempting the transfers. I have tried room temperature drying and cold drying (had more luck with room temperature- but not perfect)
Please share your experiences with the sheets - type - where purchased - tricks etc.
Thank you, thank you, thank you
updated by @margaret2: 04/11/25 09:27:36
Speed Control Option for Santha Spectra 11
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Catherine -
At this level, IMO, you'd be better off buying two machines rather than one with a speed control. On a larger machine the speed control is a handy option.
One of the main differences between the Santha and CocoaTown designs at this size are in the way tension is applied. In the CocoaTown there is a hinged top that is spring loaded to provide the tension. On the Santha you tighten a nut that puts tension on the spring, which makes it adjustable tension. (This is both good and not-as-good). You can adjust the tension (good), but it's difficult to get exactly the same tension each time (which is not-as-good because it makes it difficult to put exactly the same pressure on the stones each time, leading to less-consistent results).
Speed Control Option for Santha Spectra 11
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
I am getting ready to try my handat makingbean to bar chocolate. I am considering purchasing a Santha Spectra 11 Melanger. There is alsoan option for a model of the Santhawith anaddedspeed contol. Can anyone advise me if I should purchase themodel with the speed control? Will this make a better product, what are the benifits to this? The cost of the speed controloption practially doubles the cost of the Melanger. I was also wondering about the CocoaTown Melanger in the sameprice range $500ish. Does anyonehave an opnion onwhich of these Melangers might work better or achieve a higher level of results?
Thank you for any input you may have on this topic, it is much appreciated!
Best regards,
CatherinePolicella
updated by @Catherine Policella: 04/11/25 09:27:36
Looking for a Chocolatier with experience in making truffles
Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)
Hey everyone, I created a new group over the weekend - JOBS - just for job postings. Situations Wanted and Situations Available. You do have to join the group (it's free and takes just a second) to post and to set up notifications.
Looking for a Chocolatier with experience in making truffles
Posted in: News & New Product Press (Read-Only)
Looking for someone in the MD area that would beinterestedin part-time work creating and making wonderful truffles.
updated by @Monica2: 12/13/24 12:16:07
Examining a Mast Brothers Assertion
Posted in: Opinion
Chantelle;
At first I took it as a jab, and started to write one of my tyrades, but then went back, read the thread in context to what you wrote and retyped my response.
Good thing. I would have thoroughly embarrased myself.
I agree with you whole heartedly about transparency. That's what my business is all about.
From a business perspective it's also a good thing to observe a company's practices surmise why they are doing something, and then read feedback from those who have tried their product and see a correlation between what they are doing and the reasons. In this case, the locals don't like their chocolate, so they have to find other markets in order to move product.
Cheers and best wishes in your venture.
Brad
Examining a Mast Brothers Assertion
Posted in: Opinion
Brad anyone might think my reply was a slight to your company and chocolate- and it wasn't. I have never tried your product, and I wasn't even comparing you Mast Brothers at all. I actually think most of their chocolates are grainy and inconsistent. That brings me back to the point of this whole conversation. Clay brought this up to make a point of the possible unrealistic claims they make as bean to bar producers, regarding their purchasing bean price. What I am saying is that this is a valuable conversation that must be had- not just because there needs to be more transparency in modern companies but also that if you are staking a big claim about potentially 'doing good for society' then your peers must not openly disagree. Secondly, and more personally, I truly want to look into bean to bar, and I want to know what other people think of what is a legitimate price to pay for good beans (and what is too high). In summary that is two reasons this conversation must be had. I'm glad It has been had
Examining a Mast Brothers Assertion
Posted in: Opinion
Chantelle;
Mast Brothers ships their product. Choklat doesn't. It makes sense thatthe Mast Brotherswould be more well known, as more people all over the world have access to their chocolate. That doesn't mean their chocolate is any good though. In fact, given their very limited production ability and the fact that they are in the center of a wealthy city with a daytime population of over 8 million people and need to sell outside of their geographic region, I would seriously question their quality.
If the locals aren't buying it...
Conversely, my business is in a city 1/8th the size and we can barely keep up with demand. In fact some days I'm very happy a lot of this city still hasn't heard of my business (I don't advertise). Why would I care what the rest of the world thinks of my product or business if my supply is constantly sold out locally?
...and anything more than $10k for a ton of beans is a load of bunk in my opinion. Either that, or the buyer got played.
Brad
Examining a Mast Brothers Assertion
Posted in: Opinion
I have to put my two cents in here. I am from Adelaide, South Australia, and while I have never heard or seen anything to do with Choklat outside of these forums, I have heard and seen Mast Brothers Chocolate everywhere. Even in Adelaide it's not uncommon for people to know them and any serious chocolate lover will know them. Their chocolate is stocked in at least two- three places here in South Austrlaia and countless more in Sydney and Melbourne. I have to say I really agree with Clay as I am actually considering starting my own experiments with producing chocolate and the price I should pay for Cocoa beans is very relevant. This whole discussion is very relevant, hence me sitting here reading through anything and everything about chocolate and what people think of other craft chocolate producers.
Examining a Mast Brothers Assertion
Posted in: Opinion
Farmers in the Dominican Republic who are members of farmer's cooperatives get the market price for the cacao. The benefits are access to fermentation centers, technical assistance, ability to get certified organic and 10% of the profits from the cooperative go back into community projects. No other real advantage from what I have learned so far. The major cacao producers are also establishing similar relationships with the more medium sized farms. There are other certifications which they qualify.
I will be looking closely on how cacao is graded coming out of the farm and the price differentials. From what I have seen so far, have control over harvesting and fermentation are the key components out of control of most chocolate makers working with Dominican beans. The Rizeks are probably more advanced on a large scale, in creating a fine cacao which can identified from the farm. I know there is sourcing for cacao beans at the cooperatives but do not know to what extent. So much of what everyone handles is bulk cacao and will looking at how higher graded cacao is sourced.
I do know of three other individuals/groups who are also harvesting, fermenting and handling the entire process up to chocolate in the DR and the US.
From what I have been told, the differential for fermented cacao is about US$800 per ton above commodity prices. Any price above that is news to me.
Examining a Mast Brothers Assertion
Posted in: Opinion
Do farmers get such high prices for Fair Trade Organic cacao? This price seems more like what you would pay for a superior grade cacao. I was under the impression that FT cacao could bring a premium of about $150 above the commodity price... and I would be surprised to hear that Organic added such a premium to cacao. Assuming a $2-3K per metric tonne price...
My understanding is that paying $5K per metric tonne is a very handsome price. Never mind paying $20-30K per metric tonne.
Examining a Mast Brothers Assertion
Posted in: Opinion
Well done Scott. I read your series on Noka years ago and thought it was excellent. Congratulations on helping to bring more integrity and transparency to fine chocolate. Exactly why this discussion is important, we need to be consistent about information that goes out to the public, there is so much misinformation around chocolate, we all need to do what we can.
FYI: my business is about doing educational tastings in the SF Bay Area, and I am always learning more about chocolate (aren't we all?) so I appreciate this forum tremendously. I aspire to contribute more here.
Sunita de Tourreil
The Chocolate Garage
Examining a Mast Brothers Assertion
Posted in: Opinion
After Lowe took a look at my back of the envelope math, I decided to do some more concrete modeling of the costs involved and created a spreadsheet on Google Docs for everyone to look at .
The spreadsheet takes a slightly more sophisticated look at more of the costs associated with producing a chocolate bar, not just the price of the cocoa.
The goal was not to "prove" that I was "right" (okay, I did want to make sure I was not completely off) but to provide a basic template for a pricing tool that anyone who is making chocolate (or wants to make chocolate) can use to help figure out how various different costs affect the final (retail) sale price of a bar. I have also included a three-tier distribution scheme in the pricing (broker, distributor, retailer). Obviously not everyone is going to have these three tiers (especially in the beginning), but having the costs built into the model is extremely important, IMO.
Everyone who is interested should be able to download this spreadsheet and play with it and modify it as they need to.
It's not perfect, and I know it so I am not asking people to critique it. It's still naive in the sense that it does not properly account for all costs, but at least it should give people an idea of relative contributions of various factors. Members are free to download, modify, and tinker to meet their needs.
Examining a Mast Brothers Assertion
Posted in: Opinion
Mast Brothers do not use cocoa butter in their bars from their label and what they told me.
Examining a Mast Brothers Assertion
Posted in: Opinion
Lowe;
Not to split hairs here, but you're assuming that the 70% cocoa content is 100% cocoa nib. It may not be. In fact very few chocolate companies use 70% beans, as the fina. cocoa butter content is too low and makes the chocolate thick and hard to work with.
I tried to look at their website to get a more accurate percentage, but there's essentially nothing about their bars on there. I would hazard a guess that it's most likely a 55/15 split between cocoa beans and cocoa butter. However this is just a guess. If I am accurate, then given the price of their beans in relation to the cocoa butter they buy, it would only bring their cost down a bit more.
Cheers.
updated by @Brad Churchill: 06/10/15 02:17:48
Examining a Mast Brothers Assertion
Posted in: Opinion
Hi Clay,
I'd like to clarify some of the math that you did. You said:
"Do some math. Is it possible to pay $25,000/MT for beans and make a 2.5 oz (71gr) bar of chocolate that can be sold (profitably) for $7?
At $25,000/MT raw, whole beans in multiton quantities costabout $11.35 per pound. By implication in the video, that money is paid to the farmer and therefore would not include customs, insurance, freight, and other costs, so the calculation understates the actual landed price of the beans and therefore the following cost basis is low.
Assume an 80% yield on those beans (i.e., every 100 lbs of beans yields 80 lbs of usable nib after roasting and winnowing - this is generous) raises the price per pound of nib to about $14.15. Assuming a 70% cocoa content chocolate, that means that the cost ofjust the cocoa nib componentof a pound of chocolate is north of $9.90 - also assuming zero loss in the process of making the finished product."
It looks to me like there may be some mistakes in the calculations you used. Here are some calculations that I made:
Assume $25,000/MT
80% yield means that 1 MT yields 800 kg of cacao nibs.
So 800 kg costs $25,000.
$25,000/800 kg = $31.25/kg or $.03125/g
Mast Brothers bars are 71g.
70% of each bar is cacao so 1 bar has 49.7g of cacao.
Putting it all together: $.03125/g x 49.7g cacao = $1.55/bar for the cacao.
Add in the cost of the sugar and they still make a profit. If they paid 5x then the cost per bar is only about $0.80.
Of course, this ideal yield with no other losses, so their profit margin is still lower, but it does seem feasible.
The Mast Brothers also claimed "up to 10x" so it's not at all clear how much cacao they bought at this price. I might suspect that it was a very small percentage of their total volume.
I'm not being critical; I'm just trying to get accurate math. You're right that this was an instructive exercise to do.
I also think that you point about asking how much of this profit actually got to the farmers is spot on.
Examining a Mast Brothers Assertion
Posted in: Opinion
Chris:
Unfortunately, the chocolate industry is not immune from manufacturers claims that don't match reality; the example of Hawaiian Vintage Chocolate immediately comes to mind. Thus, there is ALWAYS a place for questioning and criticism. As the creator and moderator of TheChocolateLife - and the creator of chocophile.com - this is something that I've been doing for well over a decade. Those who have followed my work know that I come from a place of deep respect for, and interest in growing, the craft and artisan chocolate community and markets.
Those who've followed my writings here and elsewhere know that I am skeptical of the value of the minuscule "investments" being made in sustainable cocoa production by major manufacturers.
It's important to remember that 99% of the people who see the video have no understanding of the market for cocoa - and that includes many people who consider themselves to be chocolate connoisseurs - and what the price paid for cocoa really means.
If the 10x was paid to the growers, then that's interesting to know, especially if the price paid reflected a premium for quality. However, if the price paid did not go to the grower, but went to middlemen, brokers, and/or shippers, then the statement is disingenuous and misleading in many ways - most important of which is that most people outside the chocolate industry automatically assume that growers always benefit from higher prices.
While I may have been off-target in wondering about the profitability of making a chocolate bar whose primary ingredient cost 10x market price, it is an interesting exercise to lead people through, especially for those who make, or are looking to make, chocolate from the bean. Brad's analysis is a cogent one, but I think fails to take into account the cost of doing business in New York City (much higher than Calgary).
In the end, I think that virtually all chocolate is underpriced in the sense that very few chocolate makers are paying a price for beans that represents the true cost of self-sustaining production. Chocolate lovers are in for a rude awakening over the next decade as demand increases and the supply cannot keep up, in part because of a serious lack of investment in farms in major producing areas over the past two decades. Thus, it's more important than ever to question the prices being paid for beans and to understand how much of the money being paid actually makes it back to the grower.
Examining a Mast Brothers Assertion
Posted in: Opinion
I also just read through the articles. Very interesting and well done.
Examining a Mast Brothers Assertion
Posted in: Opinion
Scott;
After reading your post I went online and found DallasFood's 10 part article on Noka. It was great, and epitomizes what I've been talking about here in Calgary for a few years. It's much better written than anything I could come up with, and I'm personally glad that Noka's out of business.
Cheers and thanks for the update.
Brad