Forum Activity for @Ian Thomson

allergy free chocolates

Posted in: Allow Me to Introduce Myself

Hey guys

I am researching a project for first year at uni and was wondering if i could get a little help ..

we were asked to pitch a business idea in front of investors( classmates) and since it was just easter and i could not find a vegan easter egg anywhere in berlin( vegan capital of germany) without nuts, as my son has allergies to milk and nuts.. in fact the only vegan egg i could find did have traces of nuts but costed 7 euros per 100g.. that was way too much

so...

i decided to open a vegan allergen free chocolate factory producing relatively affordable products for children..

question?

1....how much could it roughly cost to set up a factory to produce milk chocolate on a relatively medium to large scale.. so just machinery , not as big as kit kat but enough to cover a vegan market and to ship to major cities in germany

2.... i have a 23g minni bar i am hoping to sell at 60 cents wholesale price what could i reasonable expect the costs in producing this minni bar would be? largest reasonable profit margin possable

thanks so much for taking the time to help me as i have searched the web and it feels like i bit off a bit more than i can chew.. also if anyone does want to make nut free dairy free chocolate... there does seem to be a huge gap in the market here in germany..

thanks again

Ian

updated by @Ian Thomson: 04/10/15 18:24:34

Continuous tempering machines: Bakon Choco-lution?

Posted in: Opinion

My understanding is that the Bakon tempering machine has only been available for a little over a year, so it probably just hasn't worked its way into enough hands yet. That having been said, I've also found it a bit curious that no one ever seems to even mention it. Really, there are people in the witness protection program who get more attention that this unit.

When it comes to continuous tempering machines FBM and Selmi always seem to get the lion's share of attention. They're both solid companies. But I just find that odd. You would think people would talk about other tempering machines from other companies (Savy Goiseau, Sollich, LCM, Bravo, Pomati, GAMI, Frichoc, etc) at least a little. Perhaps Selmi and FBM have just been significantly more aggressive with their US marketing? I don't know.

If you didn't know better, you couldn't be blamed for thinking that this is a 2-horse race. Except it's not.

Continuous tempering machines: Bakon Choco-lution?

Posted in: Opinion

Hi everyone,

I'm in the market for a continuous tempering machine with a tank capacity of 25kg or higher that has the capability to add on an enrober in the future. I've read all of the posts here from 2012 and 2013, but don't see anyone that has mentioned the Bakon Choco-lution. Does anyone have experience using this machine in their production facility? I'm mostly looking for opinions from users, not sellers (unless you're one and the same!).

Heather

updated by @HeatherJ: 04/11/15 11:00:46

Content of alcohol in recipe

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

You have two issues to deal with: The law and the actual calculation.

Each state has its own take on the law for alcohol in chocolates. The National Confectionary Association compiles a list of the various state laws...but the versions that you can find online without an account are not quite correct. You need to go to your own state website to find the correct info.

Some states prohibit any alcohol in a confection. Others permit alcohol only from 'flavorings' (excluding alcohol from beverages, even if you are using the beverage only for flavoring, and you have to go to the federal laws to see what the difference is). Some have a limit of 5% ABV, others 0.5% ABV, and still others 0.5% _by weight_.

For Georgia, check out http://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-26/chapter-2/article-2/26-2-26 It looks like Georgia limits you to 0.5% ABV with the alcohol coming from flavoring extracts only.

The second issue is that you need to figure out exactly how much alcohol is actually present in your formulation. In many ways it is easier if you can just figure by weight.

Something that is 40% ABV simply means that 100ml of the total solution consists of 40 ml of pure ethanol plus sufficient other material to make 100ml of total solution. So if you have 310ml of 40% ABV whiskey, then you have 124ml of pure ethanol mixed in with other stuff.

If you then dilute this 310ml of whiskey down to make 1000ml of 'stuff', then the resulting stuff would be 12.4% ABV.

step 1) What is the _volume_ of whiskey you are using (was that 10.5 fluid ounces, or 10.5 ounces by weight??)

step 2) What is the total _volume_ of your finished product (which might be a bit difficult to measure)

step 3) Multiply the volume of whiskey by 0.4 to get the volume of alcohol, and then divide the volume of alcohol by the total formula volume to get the ABV of the finished product.

-Jon

Content of alcohol in recipe

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Does anyone knows how to calculate percentage of alcohol in the recipe.The truffles that we make have 35oz of syrup and 10.5oz of 40% ABV whiskey in one badge. That is 60 truffles.The alcohol meter shows nothing. In sweet alcoholic filling it doesn't work ( floating on top)If someone has a path for this problem, I would really appreciate.Also, I can't find border line for necessity of a liqueur license for selling these chocolates. Looks like if Georgia nobody taking is serious enough.
updated by @Arthur Shapiro: 04/11/25 09:27:36

Adding Soy Lecithin

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thanks for such a great discussion. .

Adding Soy Lecithin

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I would still recommend to add 0.4% to 0.5% as a maximum. And if the target viscosity is reached, then further added cocoa butter. Too much lecithin can also lead to problems with tempering and crystallization.

Adding Soy Lecithin

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

As with almost anything, i'm afraid it's not quite as straightforward as a 0.4% max. While that can certainly be true for some instances, the max amount depends on a number of variables including PE/PC ratios (the actual amount of the functional components found in lecithin - not all lecithin is created equal!), the geometry of the particles one is trying to coat, the amount of moisture present (and if it's present in the form of waters of crystallization or mono-layers or free moisture), the starting viscosity, the starting fat % and the extent to which the fat that is already present has coated the solids, the temperature, the ambient relative humidity, the amount 'work' input into the mass (which is a function of the design of the conche and some mixture of the above elements), etc, etc, etc

For the average individual here, almost none of those elements are known or controllable, and the scale at which they're working is relatively small. The equipment with which they're working is going to require them to utilize more lecithin than is technically necessary were they to have the ability to work with other types of equipment where the work input allows for more control (ie most folks here are adding lecithin to a chocolate that's already either semi-fluid or clay-like in consistency), and as such they are not inputting anywhere near the optimal amount of energy/work to obtain a controllable, optimized conching envelop. Under those conditions, the bridging which occurs with too much lecithin usage, generally doesn't start to appear until 0.9-1.0% usage levels; i recommend starting at 0.3-0.5% and incrementally (0.1%) add more until either the max viscosity reduction is obtained, or the target viscosity is reached - which ever comes first.

Adding Soy Lecithin

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

There are a number of study researches, which suggests that the maximum supplement lecithin is 0.4%. For example: 1 Kg of chocolate can be added to 4 grams of lecithin. More will lead to a gradual increase in viscosity.

Practical recommendations. Lecithin mix with an equal amount of cocoa butter and add the chocolate for 1-2 hours before the end of work. Formerly adding lecithin is not recommended, as lecithin under the influence of temperature and mechanical stress may collapse and lose their properties.

Adding Soy Lecithin

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thanks Sebastian. I hope to try it out soon

Adding Soy Lecithin

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

It'll be most effective if you use fluid lecithin, and added at the beginning of your conch cycle.

Adding Soy Lecithin

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

HI Everyone.I have a question regarding soylecithin. I know that it is a thinning agent and is used very less amount around 1% but want to know in what state it is used in chocolate liquid or powder form?

updated by @Balpreet Singh: 04/11/25 09:27:36

New category suggestion: "Science"

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Sure, give me Admin rights. I don't have much time available, but maybe I can do a little for the group.

New category suggestion: "Science"

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

There is already a group called The Science of Chocolate. I think it makes sense if everything get posted there (updates get listed in the Activity list). If you like I can give you some admin rights in the group that you can use to help members more aware of what's going on and we can send general emails to all members about the groups.

One a more prosaic note, if you can help me find a sponsor for the group we can share the revenue.

New category suggestion: "Science"

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Clay,

Would you be able to add a new category called "Science"? This would be a place to discuss all of the scientific aspects of cacao and chocolate such as biochemistry etc.

updated by @ChocoFiles: 04/11/25 09:27:36

belgian endives filling

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Rotovaps are certainly one way to do it, and you can often find used ones on eBay for a lot less than the new list price.

Another way is to simply macerate (soak) measured amounts of material in measured amounts of solvents for measured amounts of time (for repeatability) - then filter off the material (e.g., grated endive). As long as the solvents are edible you should not have any issues. You may find that a water extraction is useless, for example, but that alcohol pulls out interesting flavors. You can also play with techniques to prepare the material. You could chop the endive with a knife or shred with a microplane grater.

belgian endives filling

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

This bad boy (see link below) from PolyScience costs over $9k, but if you are going to make extractions on any regular basis, and you have the budget, you might want to take a look at it. I've been lusting after it for a while now. If things come together with a project I'm working on, I hope to be able to grab one this fall.

Rotary Vacuum Evaporator

belgian endives filling

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

No, I haven't tried a tincture yet. I did make a compound, but that was very sweet.

I will try to find out how to make a tincture and see where that takes me.

Thanks for the idea.

belgian endives filling

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Have you tried making extracts/tinctures?

I know that some companies are doing three extractions (water, alcohol, and oil) of some flavorings and then combing them. The result is stronger and more complex than when using the food on its own.

belgian endives filling

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Hello,

I have the following problem:

For months now, I have my mind set on making a chocolate with a Belgian endives filling.

I have made about 10 varied attempts so far andI cannot get it right.

Several pralines gavenice results, but one could not distinguish the Belgian endives, even though a lot of these vegetables went into the filling.

I tried complicated and very simple, but even in a plain white chocolate ganache, the vanilla in the white chocolate overpowered the endive-flavour.

I cannot get the taste of the endives strong enough so that isdistinctive enough.

Can anyone help me, give me any ideas, suggestions,...please?

Or do you know of an interesting foorpairing element that could lead me in the right direction?

Your ideas are very much appreciated.

Thanks

updated by @An Vertonghen: 04/11/25 09:27:36

Fridge temperature control

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Greatly appreciated. It's all a bit new to me at this stage, but I'm gradually getting there - thanks largely to people like yourself. Thanks again.

Fridge temperature control

Posted in: Tasting Notes

My room temp changes a lot depending on weather (not ideal). Once the chocs are out of the fridge, the room can be anywhere between 15-24C. If it gets warmer than that, I turn on the AC. If the AC can't bring the temp down below 24C, it is officially to hot to make chocolates (which happens a bit during summer).

I don't know the scientific benefits of one method over another, but I have used both methods (well, a room at 18-22C rather than a fridge) and both worked fine.

Fridge temperature control

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Thanks for the reply, it is greatly appreciated. In response to your reply, I can definitely keep the room I'm working in between 17-19 degrees with our homes heating system - thankfully. I've done two chocolate courses and both used different methods for setting the chocolate. One was at the method I've been using which is to have a cabinet/fridge set at 20-22C, with milk taking 24 hours and dark 12 hours to set. The other school used a blast chilling method which required the chocolate to be placed in a fridge set at 3-4C and removed once set and placed at room temperature to settle. I guess my question then is, why wouldn't this method be adopted by the mainstream, as it clearly allows for more production?

Also, what's the approximate temperature of your room once you take your chocolates from the fridge? Or does it change?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Fridge temperature control

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Hopefully you're not trying to do your tempering/moulding in a room that is 4C though - that could be interesting

Fridge temperature control

Posted in: Tasting Notes

I often set my chocolate in a conventional fridge (I'm in Australia too). The trick is to take it out once set and not leave it in there too long. So I don't reckon a room temp of 4C would be any problem.

Fridge temperature control

Posted in: Tasting Notes

Hi guys, I've been using a Kitchener wine fridge to set my chocolate over the summer months and it's worked great. Although the room can get up to 28Celsius (82Farheneit), the fridge has been keeping itself at the desired 20C (68F). However, now that it's winter (I'm in Australia), the temperatures are beginning to drop. My Kitchener wine fridge does not have a heating element to it, so it is now simply adopting the temperature of the room, which isn't getting above 15C (59F).

Can any one see that there would be a problem with the temperature of the fridge not reaching the desired 20C? Obviously there is no humidity to worry about, but once we really get into winter the room will get into the 5C (41F) and below territory.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Clayton

updated by @Clayton Smith: 04/10/15 16:55:40

What is the true melting temperature for tempering?

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Okay I understand.

Thanks for the insight!

What is the true melting temperature for tempering?

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

To follow on with what Sebastian has said, there is no "one, true" temperature for dark chocolate, one for milk chocolate, and one or white chocolate. Every chocolate will have its own set of working temperatures ... but those may change depending on the ambient temperature and humidity and the method of tempering being used. In large industrial processing situations they can control these variables very closely, but in the average small chocolate kitchen it's a different story.

In my experience, there is no substitute for being able to hand temper and to know what tempered chocolate looks like and how it behaves. You use that experience to help you arrive at the temperatures that work for you.

What is the true melting temperature for tempering?

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

The answer is 'it depends' 8-) there's a great deal here posted already on tempering, so i'll not rehash that - you'll need to do some digging here to find it. But suffice it to say that due to differences in cocoa butter compositions (not all cocoa butters are equal), and the influence of other soft fats (milk fat, nut fats, emulsifiers, etc), and 'degree of temper' - you're going to end up with a range. Very sophisticated operations have the ability to control their raw materials streams and the knowledge to narrow down that range quite a bit, but for the average joe, that's just not necessary

What is the true melting temperature for tempering?

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I read about tempering in different resources and I see different temperatures stated.

For dark chocolate, some online articles say melt to 55c, others 45c.
The book I read "Chocolates & Confections" say 50c.

Why are the differences? What are the true temperatures for dark, milk and white?

Thanks!

updated by @Or M: 04/11/25 09:27:36

Making chocolate from cacao powder

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

You need to begin with cocoa liquor, and partially defat it somehow (most use high pressure hydraulic presses). That resluts in a very hard wheel of mostly cocoa solids that needs to be ground up into a powder. Adding cocoa butter back sort of defeats the purpose of taking it out in the first place. adding liquid sweeteners to chocolate is always a hard thing to do. adding a liquid sweetener to defatted cocoa powder - depending on how defatted it really is - can be much easier (think chocolate syrup)

Making chocolate from cacao powder

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

What are your thoughts aboutmaking chocolate from cacao powder + cocoa butter + liquid sweetener?

What is the resulting quality of chocolate?
Does it require grinding or conching?
Can you layout or direct me to a basic recipe for ratios of powder-butter-sweetener?

Thanks!

updated by @Or M: 04/11/25 09:27:36

Bean to Bar Medium Scale Jafinox

Posted in: Opinion

sorry for the delay I just saw this message. The machine they quoted me was a lab scale bean to bar.

Bean to Bar Medium Scale Jafinox

Posted in: Opinion

Without revealing the price of the machines, can you provide links to pages where the equipment that has been quoted to you can be seen for us to evaluate?

Bean to Bar Medium Scale Jafinox

Posted in: Opinion

The reason why I said a couple of thousand is because of The quote that I received has prices for each step and the price compared from others could be a couple of thousand difference. I already have a quote around 250,000euro so I do understand what you mean.

Bean to Bar Medium Scale Jafinox

Posted in: Opinion

Semira -

I have seen quotes of US$500,000 to over US$1,000,000 for complete lines from European manufacturers for production in this daily amount.

On the other hand, I have seen workshops with 500kg/day production where the investment in equipment is under $300,000 - so we're talking a lot more than a couple of thousands of dollars.

Bean to Bar Medium Scale Jafinox

Posted in: Opinion

The quote was from Duyvis. They told me they acquired the company about two months ago. I am sure the price will be higher now than just from a manufacturer from Brazil. I have tried to do as much research but the sizes are much more smaller. I don't mind paying a couple of grands more for a good machinery. My plan is to supply our local pastry chefs, artisan chocolatiers, ptisseries, restaurants, caterers and hotels a premium line of single origin and blended chocolates. In the mean while I could set up my chocolate shop.

Bean to Bar Medium Scale Jafinox

Posted in: Opinion

JAF Inox is a Brazilian company that was recently purchased by Duyvis-Wiener, as Sebastian pointed out.

One of the things that this has done is to increase the price of the machines significantly, at least outside of Brazil - the other thing it has done is extended the delivery times as well.

There are many ways to produce chocolate in the 300-500kg per day range you mention. There are big differences in price as well as the amount of integration (materials handling) that is and can be done. So, Sebastian is right - we need to know more about what you want to do, the equipment you are looking at, and your budget, to be able to offer more informed opinions.

Bean to Bar Medium Scale Jafinox

Posted in: Opinion

I've never used them, but they appear to have been purchased by Duyvis, which is a very well established company i've used for decades. if you post the specific pieces of equipment you're looking at and what you'd like them to do, we could perhaps comment in greater detail.

Bean to Bar Medium Scale Jafinox

Posted in: Opinion

Hello everyone, This is my first post after months of following the site. I am interested in opening a Bean to Bar chocolate company and I would like to know if anyone has used Jafinox bean to bar machinery? I'm looking to produce about 300 kg to 500kg chocolate a day.

TIA

updated by @Semira: 04/19/15 05:40:46

Dutch-process chocolate

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I think that'd result in something very different than conventional alkalized cocoa powder as you know it today.

Dutch-process chocolate

Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thank you for your reply SeBastian,

I think if I want to make my own natural chocolate to dutched chocolate. I will just need to add 3 tablespoonsunsweetened cocoa powderplus a pinch (1/8 teaspoon) baking soda for every 1-ounce Dutch-Process Cocoa. Am I correct?