Forum Activity for @Sebastian

A refract can tell you the dissolved solids level - which you may be able to correlate to your particular formula's Aw, but it's difficult to say any product with a dissolved solids level of xx = an Aw of yy. You may be able to make some educated guesses - for example, you may be able to take a range of products off the shelf and get a sense for their dissolved solids level, and try to emulate it on your product hoping to get 'in the ballpark' - but remember, a refract requires transmissible light for it to work, so you may need to work out a dilution as chocolate/caramel sauces aren't particularly translucent. also note that many shelf stable items may have preservatives in them, which, along with thermal processing and Aw control, becomes part of that mfr's stability strategy.

Thanks Sebastian for the great insight. I guess I need to revisit some of Jean Pierre Wybauw's books as he writes extensively about measuring AW. I might even look into facilities that do testing.

I definitely fall in to the very small category. I am wondering if measuring the sugar density of a caramel sauce or chocolate sauce can determine if it is safe. It will be a lot easier for me to buy a refractometer verus getting theAWequipment.

Has anyone on this forum successfully preserved achocolate sauce or a caramel sauce that was shelf stable. When I go to specialty stores I often see these sauces by small producerson shelves and I wonder how they do it.

That, my friend, is the subject of many textbooks. I'd suggest doing some research on water activity (Aw) to familiarize yourself with the basics and what the various ranges indicate. You can have your product tested at any number of facilities, or you could purchase your own equipment, but they're often more than folks want to send to purchase.

If you're a very, very small operation (ie you make 5 jars / year out of your house), you may want to take the 'make it, store it, and watch it' approach to see what the typical amount of time is before it goes south. not very scientific i know.

Thanks Sebastian! I really appreciate this info. Your post brings up more questions...How does one measure the AW of a product (without purchasing very expensive equipment)? Could a refractometer, that measures the sugar density, do the job? If so, at which measurement is the product ok to be jarred and shelf stable? You also mentioned heat treatments. How would that work? Would I put sauce into sterilized jar and then put into a pressure canner? Would a steam set up in the oven work? How long would it need to be heat treated? Could the heat treatment cause the sauces to separate? Sorry for all the questions. There seems to be very little information out there about safely jarring products with dairy products.

You'll need to control your water activity, which you won't know what it is until you have it tested. Once your Aw is low enough, microbes won't be able to grow. If you're unable to reduce your Aw to satisfactory levels via your formulation, you'll have to give it a heat treatment to kill everything in it, or keep it refrigerated.

I am interested in preserving homemade chocolate sauce as well as caramel sauce. Both of these items contain dairy products. I have been researching preserving techniques and I see that both chocolate and caramel sauce have been declared unsafeto preserve as these items are low acid and contain dairy products. I certainly don't want to create a hazard. Isn't there enough sugar in caramel sauce to make it safe to preserve? What about chocolate sauce? I have very little experience preserving and canning. I would love to get your input!!

I would like that info as well. Thks

We are wanting to source a roll/rolls in bulk or a bulk amount of sheets,

Cheers Sam

Hi Everyone,

We are wieghing up the options of packaging at the moment for our raw chocolate bars I would like to know if anyone in australia knows of a supplier for bulk foil? I am finding it quite dificult to source in Aus? What do others do?

I have been noticing the recycled foils available now. wouldn't it be cool if that was available for us too? It's quite an eco footprint to choose foil but it looks awesome and keeps choc so well.

Thanks Sam

The stainless steel bowl is not much of an insulator. Where I live, we try to think about energy efficiency as electricity costs about 80% more here than in the USA. I am going to try and wrap the bowl with some insulation and try to tape it up so that it does not absorb any chocolate when pouring out. You could then regulate the temperature by adding the cocoa butter earlier, if it gets too warm.

Hi. I have been able to conch with the Cocoa Town tabletop grinders by adding a plastic washer under the center shaft. I made a washer from polycarbonate and one from Teflon/nylon. I lift the stones after grinding and place the washer over the center spindle. I do not remove any chocolate - I use a disposable glove as I don't want my bare fingers in the chocolate.

The washer is about 0.94" thick. The polycarbonate sheets are available at Lowes/HD. A circle cutter makes a nice 2" dia. circle.

The height of the washer prevents the roller stones from touching the bottom of the bowl. The chocolate continues to move and flow but with no grinding.

I also use a similar sous vide setup but with a hair dryer. I prefer the lower temperatures and the steady cycling. A heat gun puts out a tremendous blast of super hot air. This seems to scorch the chocolate and risks damaging the grinder.

I bought a small Johnson Controls temperature control unit (A419) from a home brewing supplier through Amazon. The unit needed to be switched from "switch off when too cold/on when too warm" to the opposite ("off when too hot, on when too cool"). It was an easy switch to make that the unit's manual described well, although I did need to remove the front cover. Easy enough for anyone who can change a light bulb. ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00368D6JA/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 )

The heat gun I used is a HomeRight C800781 Heat Pro Deluxe II t hat has some temperature and speed control. ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003IHVANI/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ).

I attached the heat gun to an artist's easel, as it made positional adjustments very easy.

I hope that helps,

Tim

thanks

Hi - the heat gun I use goes well over 120 F (it is a professional paint stripper - although a very cheap one). The sous vide unit switches the heat gun on and off in very short intervals (sometimes only on for a second) to make sure it maintains the correct heat and doesn't over heat.

Alchemist above indicates 150F which, if my maths is right, is 65C

Hi all,

I have set up and am running with a similar setup to Gap. It seems to be working well.

Does anyone know what temperature the epoxies on the Premier wet grinder will withstand? I am about to start conching and would like to know how high.

Regards,

Tim

I've been experimenting more with this recently. It's not something you need to use all the time, but it is a tool that has proved very effective on some beans and chocolates. I tend to have the heat gun on almost minimal power so (1) the airflow is not over the top and (2) the heat gun does not overheat - it is a cheap brand I own . It means it can take an hour to get to the temperature I have set, but over the course of a long conche that is incidental.

And yes, I love my Premier

As with any tool, there are times when it's quite appropriate to use, and others when it's not. Since not all beans are created equal - nor are taste palates - removal of certain (off) flavors may be desireable - and it may even allow flavors that are MORE subtle, but being masked, to shine.

Additionally, it can help a great deal with moisture removal - which can help with viscosity control.

Hi All,

just thought I would share a recent idea I had for conching in my wet grinder. Conching is often done at temperatures higher than that reached by a wet grinder. So I borrowed my father-in-law's sous vide temperature control unit and came up with the setup in this video (I'm sure it could be setup neater, but this was just to see if it worked).
http://www.thechocolatelife.com/video/tempcontrolconch

Basically the sous vide machine measures the chocolate temperature. I enter the temperature I want the chocolate to be at and the machine switches a heat gun (pointed into the grinder bowl) on and off to achieve that temperature.

I refined the nibs for 6 hours, added the sugar and refined for another 9 hours. I then switched on the temperature control unit and "conched" for 15 hours at 60.5C. I added the additional cocoa butter 8 hours into that conching period.

The machine I used was a Sous Vide Magic, but there may be others that do something similar.

The final chocolate seemed to have a better mouthfeel and flavour, so I think it worked as a conch. The next step is to try a longer conching period and maybe increase the temperature (especially for milk chocolate). The only thing I am weary of is I don't know the maximum temperature the expoxies/glues used in the wet grinder can withstand.

Anyway, I've only tried this once for now. Let me know if you have any questions about my setup or any improvements/alternatives I could try.

I had a fantastic time at the FCIA event in NYC today. Of course I got to say hello to Clay and chit chat a little. Gary Guittard's workshop was very good and and an amazing chance to hear from someone who has known chocolate since birth. He had four origin samples which had either none or over fermentation. The no fermentation was Haitian and was interesting to taste being my connections to Dominican cacao both fermented and unfermented. Being around and listening to Maricel Presilla is always fun. Finally met the Raaka, Equal Exchange, and Fruitian chocolate people I have always wanted to contact. Also Alex Whitmore from Taza was a very pleasant person to talk with. My friend Roni Sue with Moho was there. Daniel from Atlantic Cacao was also a pleasant surprise to meet, and to see and taste the different origin beans he had at his table. Pam, Mary Jo, Lisa and Tracy did a nice job once again and hopefully someday I can attend a San Francisco event.

Aside from the fact that "raw chocolate" is a 99.99% misleading load of crap, there's a very good chance that both the agave and coconut oil will prevent it from tempering.

I think if you REALLY dig into the source of your cocoa mass and cocoa butter you will find that they are processed at very high temperatures - WAY beyond the threshold acceptable for calling it raw.

i am new to raw chocolate but have worked a lot with couverture. The raw chocolate I have been asked to make includes cocoa mass, cocoa butter, agave and coconut oil. Has anyone had any experience of tempering such a blend bearing in mind that 'raw' usually limits your temperature range. i am also unsure how the coconut oil may interfere with the cocoa butter crystallisation. i won't know the exact recipe until I decide whether to accept the job.

True enough! I only threw out a year as a distant thought. If I can get 6 months out of a product without tampering or additional science I'm an ecstatic camper. A lot of my other barks and toffees seem to easily coast into that frame as long as heat/humidity don't beat them up.

That's good news on a nitrogen flush sealer too. I'll have to keep that in mind. We're pondering what our next growths steps would be and if we go for an industrial space for production that + a walk-in would be a good combo. Industrial space or chocolate bourbon bar.. oh the decisions.

We're already pondering some finished/packed freezer tests but our freezer space is rather limited at this time with other items.

Just trying to get more longevity out of products so I can do a larger up front run and then work on the myriad of other projects and production needs.

Thanks for your input too!

Andy - I looked into this myself (for different reasons) last fall. The good news is that you can get vacuum sealing systems with a nitrogen flush for less than you might think. I saw some for as little as $3,000. The bad news is that these systems tend to be more geared toward things that can be easily poured into the bags. Many confections would have to be hand work, which would eliminate most of the automatic functions that are potentially available.

That having been said, it all depends on your volume. If your volume is not that large then filling the bags by hand may be no problem anyway. And if your volume is large you can get an automated solution designed for nearly anything. As usual, it's when you're somewhere in the middle that there is no easy solution.

As for your specific issue with pecans I'm no expert on nuts but my research has always indicated that the only (and probably best) way to extend the life of pecans is through temperature. In particular freezing them. Pecans apparently hold up to freezing (and even thawing and re-freezing) much better than most nuts. Of course how your confections might hold up to this is another story. But if you place your product in an vacuum-sealed bag with a nitrogen flush and then keep them in the freezer you might actually get that one year. Of course you'll have to set aside a year to test it out! And even if it works I would be surprised if there wasn't some degradation in the quality of the nuts. But maybe

Sorry to rain on the parade. Unfortunately highly unsaturated fats at high levels + air and high temps (think ruptured cells) don't end well over long periods of time. There are lots of handling procedures that can be done during roasting that can minimize the impact, but not eliminate it.

Thanks Sebastian that puts a perfect perspective on it and a slight buzz kill to boot. I guess if we ever got into vacuum sealing or something close it might help but even then w/o an inert gas insertion I think it'd be limited usefulness.

Oh well. I guess I'll just keep that product at a low inventory item and also start storing my pecan inventory in the freezer or ordering less.

Many thoughts and many thanks for the lesson.

There's nothing you can do to stop oxidative rancidity in nutmeats, other than defatting them. Period.

There are lots of things you can do to slow it down. Generally speaking, if you put a barrier around the nuts that can block oxygen, that helps (ie candying provides a sugar barrier). The lower temperatures you can expose the nuts to, the better (ie roast lower for longer vs very hot for shorter).

A couple of things to note:

Chocolate is a terrible oxygen barrier.

Sugar barriers, if intact, are great. However it's quite challenging to keep sugar from getting cracks in it, which lets the oxygen through.

You will never. Ever. get 1 year stability in pecans, unless you keep them frozen. Or perhaps stored in space where there is no oxygen.

The only nut I have a problem with are pecans. After roasting them they seem to have a shelf life of about 3 months +/-. I use them in a bark and you can see the fat bloom slowly take over after its time period has elapsed and holding temps don't seem to matter much.

I started doing some digging and came across conflicting advice. One camp said to candy them and that would stop it, the other camp said candying them would not stop it but would increase the rancidity.

Is anyone here doing 6mo-1year stability of pecans or other nuts in their chocolate and know how to reduce if not eliminate the fat rancidity of the nut?

I would recommend against fixed cabinetry for two reasons:

1. Chances are you aren't going to be at that location forever, so you don't have to worry about losing a TON of money invested in millwork that you can't remove. and MORE IMPORTANTLY:

2. The health inspectors LOVE when you can move cabinets, and clean underneath them so as to eliminate hiding places for pests. All of our counters are moveable, and we never ever have issues with the health department.

Thanks for sharing your list, Heather! You mention cabinetry in your list: is most of your equipment and ingredient storage built-in? This is a point of contention for us right nowrolling racks are more versatile, but built-ins would protect equipment so much better. Thanks again!

Great question. I have an ongoing list:

- better located HVAC vents for even flow and avoiding drafts near crucial work areas

- counter height or ceiling/pull down electrical outlets

- great lighting for decorating (I did this right the first time and have loved it)

- cabinetry with drawers for organized and protected molds storage

- future possibility of an entire "cool room" instead of a wine cooler or walk-in

- space for a packaging station, if you're planning on shipping or doing retail

Hope this helps!

Heather

Questions for those of you that have gone through design and construction/renovation of a confectionery production facility: What do you wish you had known before you started? Are there things you would have designed differently?

Yes, this is normal. After running through the melanger, you'll need to temper your chocolate to get stable, bloom-free chocolate. There's a lot of information on tempering on this forum and on the CA site and forum, so I won't repeat it here.

Hello, Chocolate Lifers,

Im new to chocolate making, but not the consumption

I recently got myself a small melanger, and I have run a few batches of nibs through it, and I see my temp hitting 170F. I have been following the guide on Chocolate Alchemy, its within the range that is mentioned.

When Im done with the refining I pour it onto a sheet of plastic wrap, and double it over till it is cool.

My question is this;

The finished chocolate has ALOT of bloom. Is that normal?

I find it ironic that the one quality we dont want is inherent in the manufacturing process.

Cheers

Al

I've just messaged on a similar thread, so thought i'd share the info here too.

I follow Ruth Hinks from Cocoa Black (UK World Chocolate Master 2012) on Twitter and she was tweeting about using your chocolate gun Krebsto spray, what looks like coloured cocoa butter, to make gorgeous little orange pumpkins, and there were some velvet effect pictures done using the gun,posted afterone of her chocolate school courses if you want to have a nosey...

https://twitter.com/Ruth_Hinks/status/518003583284162560/photo/1

Thanks Urs- you were very well informed. Have you bought one? If so, we`d love to get some feedback.

Actually, we did launch the KREBS heated chocolate spray gun under the name hotCHOC. Sales are going strong.

KREBS are actually launching a new HEATED spray gun called HOTSPRAY.

Here is the video they posted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAnJDw-UL3U

Really makes life a lot easier. Plug & Play, totally flexible, no compressed air needed AND keeping it at a constant temperature ... I like!

What is the best spray gun for chocolate? I heard that Krebs guns are good, looking for info from anyone who has used them or any other brand. Need to find the best gun for misting chocolate.