Forum Activity for @Clay

Bongaan:

You are a newbie on this site. Sebastian is a very highly-respected member of the site who has contributed to many discussions and always has something insightful - and relevant - to say.

As a newcomer, it makes sense for you to do some research about the site. If you had, you might have found the answers you were looking for. Over the course of the last nearly six years now there have been extensive discussions on raw chocolate.

There is no Chocolate 101 section on TheChocolateLife. I thought about it for a long time and in the end it turned out that I'd need to have several different "101" sections - one for confectionery, one for chocolate making, one for "raw" chocolate, and maybe several more.

I would also take Sebastian's advice about "raw" chocolate to heart. It is highly unlikely that you are allergic to cacao ... which is why you can make your own chocolate using "raw" paste/powder and butter. It is highly likely that you are sensitive to some other ingredient in the commercial chocolate. You probably don't need to go raw, you could get commercial cocoa paste (chocolate liquor) and cocoa butter - organic, and do exactly the same thing.

:: Clay

Thank you Larry, but the course is way too expensive for someone like me. I will try the search function. Thanks

Bongaan,

I'd carefullyconsider any advice and input from Sebastian. He has a wealth of knowledge.

That said, to avoid extensive R&D time, just take a class.

http://www.ecolechocolat.com/chocolate-making-from-bean.php?gclid=CLzahdyWhbsCFShyQgodTi8Asg

Ecole Chocolat should be able to make your life easier.

If that doesn't work, there is a google search bar on the homepage of this site. Searching the site will be effective.

Also check Chocolate Alchemy's site.

Larry

The only question I asked was for some help on how to make chocolate, you didn't answer that. I'm not unwilling to browse, I don't have much time, but you probably don't grasp the difference.

Anybody else than Sebastian who actually have some kindness to show to me? As I don't find a section on this forum (like on other forums) which are dedicated to newbies and giving them direction on where to begin. Or am I just missing it?

You asked the question, you indicated you weren't willing to do the r/d yourself or even take the time to browse the boards.

Your dislike of the answer or offer of virtual friendship, i'm afraid, has no bearing on the truth of the answer. It's given with your best interest in mind.

Best wishes to you.

Bongaan: "Hello my name is Bongaan, I get ill from commercial chocolate."

Sebastian: "Hi, my name is Sebastian, I don't even know your face but I'm telling you that it is highly unlikely that commercial chocolate is making you ill."

Bongaan: "Oh wow Sebastian, I don't think we are going to become friends."

Unless you're allergic to one of the labelled ingredients (i.e. milk) it's highly unlikely that commercial chocolate is making you ill. It is highly likely that raw chocolate will make you ill eventually. I understand you believe it's better for you, but i'd urge you to further understand what 'raw' means for cocoa. I hardly ever meet someone for whom ingesting salmonella or e. coli has turned out to their benefit.

Hi all, I unfortunately get ill if I eat normal store bought chocolate, something to do with the cacao, however it seems as if I can tolerated raw cacao much better. So I decided to make my own small batch of chocolate recently: melted cocoa butter, coconut oil, honey and some vanilla and mixed in the raw cacao. Poured into moulds & into the fridge. Didn't came out bad, but also not great taking into consideration the amount of moneyI had to fork out for raw cacao and cocoa butter.

So now I am here and I hope some of you will be so kind as to direct me to "chocolate making 101". All I need is probably on this site, but I dearly hope some of you will recommend a post or two or paste a link or two. I unfortunately do not have much time to browse and do R&D so I'm relying on your kindness to help me.

Kind regards!

[ Moderator's note: Member Bongaan is located in South Africa. It might be helpful to take that fact into account when you reply to his question. ]

Don't under-estimate the importance of good PHC - genetics only accounts for approximately 51% of the flavor potential, which isn't to be underestimated, but most folks give it more creedence than it's due, and post harvest less than they should.

Hi Madeleine

We have a wide range of Organic, Fair Trade, and/or Rain Forest Alliance beans. If you are interested, feel free to email me at ddomingo@ecomtrading.com and I can send you more information, pricing, etc

Happy New Year!

Dan

Hi Brian,

Thanks a lot; we appreciate your opinion and are glad that the beans looked good. Now we just have to find some genetics like the ones you have in Peru to really take it up a notch.

Giff

Hi Gifford, just wanted to say that I recently sampled some of your beans and they were excellent. Post harvest was clearly top notch. Kudos to you and your team, job well done.

Saludos,

Brian

Hello Giff,

Just visited your website- love it! what a great cacao story! Could you email me some info: cost? strains available? organic? FT?

madeleine@chocolatehollowvt.com

Thanks!

Hello Madeleine,

My small company, Cacao Bisiesto (Leap Year Cacao) processes fine flavor Nicaraguan cocoa. We have worked with several bean-to-bar chocolate makers in the US and Europe and can handle anything from a sack to 10 tons of cocoa. If you would like a sample please let me know and we will happily send you one.

Giff Laube

Matagalpa, Nicaragua

Thanks, Milford! I know chocolate alchemy well and it's a great site. I'm just trying to stay open to new sources if they are out there. If they are, they are hard to find!

Hello!

Can anyone recommend a good source for fine-flavor beans that are organic and fair-trade (or similar)?

I'm looking to buy a couple hundred pounds at a time. I live in Vermont, USA.

Any tips would be much appreciated!

Madeleine

This is a novice response, but if Lecithin is used to suspend some of the water and increase the flow of chocolate, would adding a touch of lecithin help your viscosity issue? I know there is plenty of research on how much lecithin to add & too much (I think greater than 0.5%) will begin to have a negative effect.

It may be worth a try.

I also have never thought of dehydrating liquids such as balsamic to get the flavor. - This is brilliant! Thank you for sharing.

Larry

And I appreciate your work here very much, it is the most comprehensive forum online.

I reduced the balsamic today and it worked much better, just reduce until enough water has evaporated, but not far enough so it get too thick.

Flavored E.V olive oils are next, any thoughts from members is much appreciated.

Keep in mind I am making bars, the previous answer from Clay might be the only way around including Olive oil since they would not set with the whole bar having Olive oil as an inclusion.

Mattias -

This is one of the main reasons I started TheChocolateLife - "crowd sourcing" the answers to questions about chocolate in a forum that makes the questions and answers publicly available and searchable. The more people who contribute, the more valuable TheChocolateLife becomes for everyone - member or not.

:: Clay

That is actually what I meant regarding the balsamic having some water content such as the agave you mention; and therefor makes the chocolate to thicken/seize. I am assuming that is what the issue is. De-hydrating and go from there seems to be the better option like you suggested.

Never heard of Zotter but will look them up.

Thank you for the input and taking the time, appreciate it.

Mattias

Chocolate is not an emulsion, it's a suspension - there's little to no water in chocolate.

Adding water thickens/seizes the suspension.

Adding a fat that is liquid at room temperature reduces crystal formation in the chocolate as it cools, leading to chocolate that is soft, does not snap, and may not be as stable. (Anhydrous butter fat is added to chocolate in industrial production to make it more stable but I don't know about using it in small quantities in hand production.)

I can't see how adding the balsamic to dairy butter or olive oil will work. Maybe to cocoa butter. I know that many "raw" chocolate makers add agave syrup to their chocolate and agave syrup has a high water content and they are still able to temper the chocolate, but they are not adding any other form of fat other than cocoa butter. So that might work with you.

You want to make flavored, solid bars, right? Most people using ingredients like balsamic and olive oil are making ganaches and then covering them. You can do that in bar form - as Zotter does.

I appreciate the suggestion, that might be something I will try, I have dehydrated things like sirracha so it should work fine with balsamic as well.

What about the possible options if I stick with the liquid version?

Is there a favorable thinner aside from butter that would not interfere with the flavor too much and will still make the bars set up?

Lastly, has anyone worked with olive oil as an inclusion?

Since canola oil supposedly works ok with blending chocolate one would think E.V olive oil should be fine, but it might have the same result as the balsamic I am using, it doesn't seize exactly but turns to a thick pudding if too much balsamic is added, it has some water content in it I imagine so maybe it does "seize".

Have you tried dehydrating the vinegar and turning it into a powder?

Any thoughts on how to add balsamic vinegar to chocolate without it lumping up?

I have been using a 25 year old high end balsamic with great results as far as taste goes,

however if I add a little more balsamic than I have been then it turns too thick to add to molds.

I imagine adding some fat content like butter or coconut milk would thin it and make it more workable. I have read about adding oil to chocolate, is there a trick to adding olive oil to chocolate for bars? Keep in mind that I am not making fillings or truffles, I need to have the chocolate set for bars in all the circumstances described above.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks beforehand,

Mattias

Very cool.....I do come to NY often............

No in Bayside, Queens, NY!

Thank you for sharing Ravi......are you in the Washington area?

Mr. Rasmussen (Potomac Chocolate?) started his business in his garage and I remember him saying on You tube that his best expenditure was $75 on something he bought on Craig list!

Rob:

Thank you for taking the time to share your experience with me. I am really grateful:))))))

When I opened my shop (not chocolate exclusive) I went to the local SBDC (Small Business Development Center) and they held my hand as I did the business plan. At the end was a sort of stamp of approval for the SBA loan program. So not only did I have professionals looking at my numbers and making sure they were realistic, but I then had money on the backside to actually make it happen. The advice about working for someone else is invaluable even if you present yourself as an unpaid stage.

Thank you again Clay for your valuable advice. It is much appreciated. I prefer to be over funded than under funded.

Priscilla:

1 tonne (MT, 1000kg, 2204 lbs) of chocolate is about 10,000, 100gr bars.

Your capital equipment costs will depend on what approaches you take: are you interested in a "real" roaster or are you going to be using a convection oven? Are you going work with wet-mill style grinders, a universal, or some other method?

You'll need tempering and bar molding equipment and at this scale you may want some sort of wrapping machine.

Your choices here will determine how much space you need. Are you in an industrial park (cheap but no ambiance) or in a retail location (expensive)?

Many of the people who have opened small chocolate businesses are what I would call under-capitalized with total budgets for equipment and space of under $100k. You may not need a million, but you probably want to have enough capital to see you through at least two years' rent and salaries, plus capital expenditure, build-out, ingredients, utilities, marketing and advertising, etc.

Commercial rent is expensive in Maryland. I know it takes more than $7000 cocoaTown grinder and $2500 chocovision machine. I actually thoughtit takes$1million to open a bean to chocolate bar shop, but I guess it is lower than that. I will take your advice and find a candy shop to work in. Thanks.

Thank you Andrea. I appreciate your input.

Priscilla -

Andrea's recommendation is quite good. You can work from a zero-basis and figure out what it's going to cost, or you can start out with a sum you're willing to invest, and then figure out what you can do for that money. In either case you need to know what your costs are going to be. I don't know what commercial rents are in the part of Maryland you're talking about and I don't know the extent of the products you intend to make (and/or buy in) and sell. Your question is ambiguous, even: are you going to making chocolate from the bean or are you going to be selling bars from craft chocolate makers? If you're making chocolate from the bean then you need to have an idea of how much chocolate you need to make in order for you to have a real business.

One of the challenges I see all the time is that people wanting to go the bean-to-bar route start out thinking that all the two biggest capital expenses are a $7000 CocoaTown grinder and a $2500 Chocovision tempering machine. That may be the case if you want to make 70kg of chocolate a week, but that's not a business.

Also - get some experience somewhere before you begin. Work in a retail store and in a candy kitchen. Make sure you really know what you're going to be getting yourself into.

:: Clay

I agree with Andrea.

Thanks for your prompt respone. Does the $150,000 include rent and chocolate machinery like tempering machine and cocoa bean grinding machine?

$150,000 at least

I am passionate about chocolate and want to start a bean to chocolate bar shop in Maryland. I have no experience in the chocolate business. I intend to rent a space for the shop.

I am looking into getting an extruder for both caramel pieces and ganaches. Right now the front runner is the Savage Carousel

Pros:

-This machine can do both caramel or ganache (no more hand portioning with a scoop!)

-They have stock shapes or will custom make any shape or size for you

-Footprint (size) of the machine -- tabletop and small

-Support, reliability, and reputation of Savage Bros

Cons:

-Expensive (Around $8K US) and haven't been able to get ahold of one used

-Output is only 1 piece at a time. I would prefer something still small (tabletop size) but capable of maybe 3-5 pieces with a small conveyor. Maybe such a thing doesn't exist.

I do like their depositor but it's for liquid. I need the function of the extruder/cutter in the form of the depositor I guess

I have the Savage Firemixer 14 and couldn't live without it now. Savage makes a good, solid product in my opinion and my experience so far. Also great support from the company. The down side is they are expensive. And with only getting one piece out at a time I will save some time but it's truly a middle step given that at some point my production increase will require me to get multiple pieces at once and with less manual intervention.

All of this said.... does anyone have this machine, or a comparable piece of equipment? What are your thoughts, cautions, and recommendations? Is there another company with a device similar in size and output (or better output!) with a lower price tag? Does anyone have one they absolutely love?