Forum Activity for @Clay

Itziar:

Basically, you can't.

The formula for chocolate chips is different from the formula for regular chocolate which is why it holds its shape during baking. If you are using a regular chocolate then it has high amounts of cocoa butter and it's going to melt in the oven. Many people who use regular chocolate use rather large chunks or pieces because they find lots of small pieces don't give the right look or texture.

Hello, could anyone help?

Hello everyone,

I very recently started making my own chocolate, and all because I need it in my gluten and lactose free bakery here in Bizkaia in the North of Spain. Gluten and lactose free is still something quite new over here, although us allergy sufferers have existed for a long time...

Anyhow, I have a question for you all. How do you stop chocolate from melting in the oven. I make my chocolate quitestrong on the cocoa side because I like the taste and purity of it, about 70%, but I just can't stop it from melting and my cookies do not look or taste the way I would like them to. What am I doing wrong? Thanks in advance.

You might also give consideration to how different the results will actually be if you fill the molds to the same weight even with the different densities of chocolate.

The thickness of the bar will change, of course, since different densities mean different volumes for the same weight. But if this variation is 'seen' as a change at the 'back' of the bar, there may be no perceived quality difference.

-Jon

Netta,

No problem, all you have to do is size the mold for the lightest/lowest density product, if you have a depositor you can under fill sightly or if you flood and scrape you products will be slightly different weights.

Just so you know we ship mold to Israel, we currently make molds for Carmit, Taste of Israel. You can learn more at www.micelli.com or email me at Johnmicelli@micelli.com

Chocolate density ranges between about 1.2grams/cc to 1.35 grams/cc.

Your chocolate can be tested for density at our facility if you like, no obligation. Send us a sample and we would be happy to do that for you.

John Micelli

135 Dale Street

West Babylon, NY 11704

631-752-2888

it tells you a great deal, actually, but the most relevant bit for this discussion is that those beans haven't been particularly well fermented, and their fat will be low. In addition to being more bitter and less chocolate flavor wise, you'll need to compensate for the lower fat of the beans by adding more liquid cocoa butter to achieve proper viscosity.

Very interesting. So adding cocoa butter will keep viscosity down. How can you tell if you're grinding excessively?

Depending on what kind of grinder you are using, excessive grinding will exponentially increase the aggregate surface area of the particles in the chocolate. When this happens, there can be insufficient cocoa butter to fully coat all of the particles ---this results in a significant viscosity increase. As the viscosity increases, the amount of horsepower energy converted into heat goes up, driving up the temperature of the chocolate. Remember, when you measure micron size, you are just defining the largest particle in the chocolate --- all of the other particles are smaller than the micron measurement. Therefore, micron readings don't tell you anything about the particle size distribution. Excessive ground chocolate will also have a cloying sensation in the mouth as the very small particles actually plug up / get stuck in pores of the tongue.

Wow thank you so much for specific roasting times/temps!

Dear David,

The Conacado beans are normally well fermented but quite acidic. So you would need to roast them adequately and than grind them for the first 12 hours (we roast at 130 degrees C for around 45 minutes, using a ball roast). During this first stage additional heat could be added in order to reduce the acidity further. The cocoa mass than reaches a 75 degrees C. After this stage you can (should) add some extra cocoa butter (3-5%) and than add the sugar, grind for an extra 2 days and you'll have a super chocolate.

Best!

Rodney Nikkels

I was curious about this as well.

I searched "purple cocoa bean quality" and found this useful page.

http://www.ccib.gov.tt/node/116

Fully purple bean is a bright purple colour, and may have the cheesy texture of slately beans. Such beans are insufficiently fermented and are rarely found when normal large - scale methods are properly used

Hi Sebastian,

after I read this, i got curious and cut 50 of the beans i have in half. Almost all of them are purple/purpilsh inside. i was wondering what this tells you about the beans

absolutely. I'll tell you right now however that adding lecithin will fix that problem. If you've got a philosophical against using lecithin, you're only solution is to add cocoa butter.

Right now it's literally just 70% roasted nibs and granulated sugar, added after 24 hours of grinding. Can you do a cut test on dried beans?

Can you cut 50 of your beans in half and count how many are purplish tinted in color inside? Can you post your formula you're using, and are you using lecithin? If your recipe is simply 70% beans and 30% sugar, i'm guestimating your fat level is approximately 32% (but that's why i asked you to count purple beans, to help understand how fermented they are, which impacts fat level). At 32% fat - regardless of how well fermented your beans are - if you're not using an emulsifier - such as lecithin for example - i'm afraid your chocolate is going to be thick (viscous). If that's the case, i suggest adding 0.5% fluid lecithin a couple of hours after you've added the sugar.

Thanks Adrian!

I would suggest The Science of Chocolate by Stephen T Beckett. Ithas a lot of useful information at a decent price.

It is my understanding that the longer you grind, the more fat is released from cocoa particles, which will reduce viscosity.Whether that applies to your case I have no idea, but perhaps 24 hours with such a small batch is too long,but that also depends ongetting a good bean and hitting theroast right.

Oh it doesn't dissolve?? Is there a good chemistry book that discusses the molecular structure of cacao? And speaking of books, is there a good resource for bean-to-bar chocolate making?

I'd seen this book but that's a pretty hefty price - I'll buy it if it's worth it though.

http://www.amazon.com/Production-Processing-Technology-Emmanuel-Afoakwa/dp/1466598239/

I'd heard about confectionery sugar having corn starch so I'm glad I'm using regular granulated sugar.

Okay - so it may look thin to you but if you had experience working with beans from 10 different origins you don't know where it fits relative to others.

Sugar doesn't dissolve, you're grinding the particles down. Yes, in a wet-mill style grinder pre-refining the sugar should reduce the amount of time required to finish grinding. If you purchase pre-refined sugar you must be sure that it contains no anti-caking agent; commercial confectionery sugar often has up to 3% corn or other starch in it and that's a no go when it comes to making chocolate.

No, I'm not sure what the fat content is - I guess I'm going off of how thin the liquor is before I'm adding sugar. Thanks for the sugar tip and I'll take a look at buying cocoa butter to aid in the thickness problems I'm having. I'm also wondering if grinding with sugar included for less than 24 hours would help. Pre-ground sugar (like in a food processor like you suggested) shouldn't take all that long in the grinder to dissolve right?

Yes, cocoa butter will thin it back down. When you say "quite a bit of cocoa butter in them naturally" do you know what the fat level is? Beans can range for 45-55% fat and the fat can have different hardnesses (melting points) so two beans with the same fat content might have different viscosities at different temperatures.

Limiting the number of variables makes sense to some extent but if, by eliminating a variable, you make the basic process much more difficult then I would add in the other variable - the added cocoa butter - so that at least processing and molding can proceed.

You might also check to make sure that the sugar is absolutely dry. One way to do that is to prerefine it in a food processor. If moisture starts to form on the lid then the sugar is not dry and the small amount of moisture in it could be binding with the chocolate, thickening it up.

Thanks for responding! I guess at this stage I'm trying to mitigate the number of variables. I'm still trying to figure out the roast, let alone grinding times. I have found these beans to have quite a lot of cocoa butter in them naturally, and only after 24 hours with sugar added did it start to really thicken up. Cocoa butter would thin it back down, correct?

Why don't you want to add cocoa butter?

As I see it, it's a huge mistake that most people make when starting out. Learn how to make chocolate "the proper way" and then, when you have experience making it - and making it consistently, especially at this small scale when the machines are really underpowered - you can start to back out on other ingredients.

I'm experimenting with some conacado Dominican Republic at home, and after grinding for 24 hours I had super low viscosity (almost like water) with a super-small micron size. After adding sugar (30% to make a 70% bar) and grinding for another 24 hours, my micron size came back down to normal levels but my temp had shot up to 124F and the chocolate became super viscous and was pulling from the bottom of the grinder. I wanted to conch another day or so but I was worried the chocolate would seize up the machine, so I pulled it from the grinder and tempered and molded it. It has an astringent quality that I think conching for another day or so would've helped.

I was using a small batch (about 1.5lbs) in a tabletop grinder. Was I adding sugar too early? Is there anything I can do temperature-wise? I really don't want to add cocoa butter if I can avoid it. I can also provide pictures if that helps.

Another thing you can do is to encapsulate the pieces by spraying them with tempered cocoa butter before enrobing.

I learned this technique from someone who was filling shells with fruit preserves - the chocolate bottom would not stick to the preserves, leading to all sorts of problems. Spraying the exposed surface of the preserves with the cocoa butter and letting them sit for a few minutes solved all of the production problems.

I can imagine it being used to keep powders and very small bits stuck to the surface of what's being enrobed.

Brush, shake any foreign material off before sending down the belt.

That's a good point - I always chop mine before melting or use Mycryo which is in powdered form.

it has a melting point of 90 degrees. you can shave the desired amount from the block so it is very thin and will melt easily.

use a double boiler or a dehydrator

And this wont burn it? Just put it on the lowest setting like Adam said for in the oven? I am more or less looking for efficiency and this may be quicker? I will have to try both I suppose!

So let it melt half way then pult it off and let it finish so it doesnt burn on the lowest setting?

Yep, I put mine in a saucepan and melt over a gas cooker/flame.

Just curious what is the best way people have found to melt down the cacao butter without the use of water or a microwave?

Just looking to elongate the life of my grinders and I would rather it go in as a liquid than a solid!

Thank you so much!

Hi Shanta,

How long have you been making chocolate for.

I am emailing from NYC and I would be interested in tasting your bark or if you do any dark plain or blended bars

if you also need feed back,I can let you know.

I work in a retail area of a supermarket in their chocolate area but also do a lot of buying and tasting bars

Hi Again

This should have been posted first!

I am South African having recently seriously ventured into the fun world of chocolate. I love the fact that I am learning new things everyday. Experimenting with flavours and textures is such a creative field and so very uplifting.

I have made bark in various flavours, ganache from home made coffee liqueur (how simple!); lavender ganache, blue cheese ganache and lots of others with herbs form my garden. I also made gianduja, nougat, caramel and mixed and matched these with other fillings.

I hope be able to share my knowledge with all of you and to learn. I am so excited about being part of a chocolate community.

Best

Shanta

Yeah if a kid is going to buy something you think they shouldn't first of all consult their parents or don't sell that to them in the first place