Maggie -
We are going to need a little more detail than this to help you out. What kind of chocolate? What temperatures ... also in the room you're working in. How you're cooling, and more.
Have you been in touch with their technical support?
Is it analog (dial temperature setting) or digital? - If it is analog, your thermometer and the dial may not be calibrated correctly. - There is a small set screw on the bottom of the dial. It got loose on mine and caused issues.
I used a thermometer to measure the temp of the chocolate when the lights were coming off and on. - Then loosened the screw and set the dial to that temp. - Life was easier and better after that.
Is the machine heating too much? Is the chocolate getting too thick?
Could you share pictures and be much more descriptive?
Also, Hilliards has pretty good customer service. They may be able to help.
Larry
I bought this Dipper, have had nothing but problems.
Is it me?
Has anyone had problems? Can't seem to keep it in temper, have had to , well
So Just Not Happy
Hello their
I am looking for an alternative to my Kenwood cooking chef that can handle about 6 times the amount I can make with the cooking chef.
and with the same options and removable bowl, whisk, and with natural gas as heating source instead of induction.
To make pate de fruit, karamel and others.
we really don't need to go to so much detail just an estimate that sounds feasible.
We have concentrated on vegan and allergen free as they are very combinable and broaden our horizon.
I believe the market is a lot larger than you think and their are people out there , research suggests 7 to 10 % of children suffer from allergies, the most common being milk egg soy and nuts.. their are plenty of vegan chocolates out there but still few holiday goodies.. vegans tend to love nuts and thats why it is hard to find chocolates that dont say may contain traces of nuts.
as i said to our competition they do seem to be doing well at least in other countries, Moo Free is an example that started in the uk, now supplies to 12 different countries, they started for the same reason as i, but just for vegans, in 2010.. four years later they are selling in all leading retail outlets an amount of 65 000 easter eggs and their numbers are doubling each year.. they also do slabs and chocolate bars.. their is also a very popular vegan chocolate producecr in berlin and their products are flying off the shelves..
Why don't big retailers stock vegan chocolate?
This i cant understand.. dont they know that vegan people eat chocolate too?
One might say that they believe the market isn't big enough, but if i walk into any big retailer i will be able to buy vegan yogurt. this i find strange for two reasons
eat soya yogurt target vegans
soya yogurt is perishable so must be sold fast..
vegans eat chocolate too and chocolate is not as fragile as yogurt..
and with regards to price we do compete against brands that dont mind using nuts, which most people can eat and taste nice.. and vegan and allergy children would not experience a chocolate easter and christmass in the same quantity or any other chocolate quantity for that matter solely because of price.. if you take the average kid and how much chocolate he eats and a vegan kid you will see a big difference in quantity.. and we believe this is because of the price..
our products would be a 23g bar and a 150 gram bar as well as easter and xmass goodies..
we are not wanting to go from been to bar, but will be making the product out of cocoa powder and butter..
I have started a little bit backwards i know , but thats because i am not able to find out how much everything will cost, i must rely on the product prices of my competition..
i do not have to give a business plan but an oral pitch outlining some of the most important numbers
thank you very much for the comments so far i will be sharing it with my group... its so nice to get a point of veiw from someone in the business of chocolate.
thanks
ian
Youre right; you have taken a pretty big bite! I dont know how much time you have to complete this, but I hope its at least another few weeks! Anyway, while reading your post a few questions and thoughts came to me. Maybe they will be helpful.
1) You said you wanted a vegan Easter egg because your son is allergic to milk. As Im sure you know however, dairy-free and vegan are not the same thing. If you go vegan, youll likely be dealing with other complications. For example, you wont be able to use numerous food additives and/or stabilizers that you might want to use, such as gelatins, lactic acid, lecithin, beeswax, shellac, etc. And yes, there are vegan replacements for many of these items, but they can be difficult to find and will usually increase your product cost. Why not just remove the dairy? Wouldnt that be simpler? Or do you specifically want your product to be vegan? If you do want a vegan product thats fine, but make sure you are clear on what the specific goal is, because the production of vegan products is more complicated than dairy-free products, and vegans are not exactly known for their sense of humor about these things.
2) You say that you want to sell a 23-gram bar for 60 cents, but then state that you have no idea what it would cost to produce each bar. Which means that you are deciding on a price before you know your costs. And yet you want the largest profit margin possible. Ian, how do you expect to control your profit margins if you create a selling price before you even know your costs? This is not how it works. FIRST you figure out your costs. Product cost. Labor cost. Other overhead costs. Then you figure out how much each unit costs you. Then you determine your margin. THEN you price. And leave some buffer room, because youll be lucky if your numbers actually work out to be as accurate as you hoped.
3) You say that you want relatively affordable products for children. Why? Children dont care about price, because children dont have money. They either get money from their parents, or their parents just buy it for them. In my opinion you should not be focusing on making your products inexpensive. You should be focusing on making them high quality. Why? Well first of all, parents typically focus on saving money with the regular day-to-day things. Easter eggs and other chocolates are treats, and parents are far less price-sensitive when purchasing them.
Secondly, youre making a specialty product, which means your costs will be greater and your pool of customers smaller. Theres a reason that one vegan egg you found cost 7 euros. Just because the price was too much for you, that doesnt mean its too much.
And finally, you are making a product for children with allergies. Parents need to trust you. Which means you need to communicate high quality. Low prices typically communicate the opposite, which means your messaging and pricing will be working at cross-purposes. While it might not seem intuitive, I think its likely that in the market youre looking to enter, low prices would probably hurt you more than help you.
4) Speaking of your market, how big is it? And by that I dont mean how many people live in Berlin. How many people in Berlin suffer from nut allergies? In the US, its about 1%. Is it the same where you live? How many people in Berlin are vegans? In the US its about 2.5%, although that number is self-reported. Can you sustain a business when you start out by eliminating 98%-99% of your potential market? I dont know. Maybe. But you want to think about how youll make that work.
5) Also, you said that you could hardly find any vegan Easter eggs in Berlin, and you could not find a single vegan Easter egg in all of Berlin without nuts. If Berlin really is the vegan capital of Germany, and nobody is trying to sell a vegan Easter egg, what does that tell you? Do you think that this means that you are the first person to think of this? Or is it possible that the companies who already make Easter eggs have researched this and determined that the market is too small to be worth it? In other words, is this a market that is under served, or a market that doesnt really exist? This strikes me as something you would want to figure out before you build a factory.
6) You also stated that you could not find an Easter egg without nuts. Why? Setting aside the vegan issues, is this because there is a tradition in Germany (or Berlin) to make Easter eggs in a very specific way? If so, this could add another non-trivial complicating factor. You might be able to market to non-vegans and people without nut allergies if they think that your product is pure and of high quality. But if removing nuts from your Easter eggs makes them non-traditional in a society that places high value on the traditional aspects of such a product, youre going to have a significantly more difficult time selling these to anyone outside of your 1% or 2%.
Final thoughts You appear to be doing a few important things backwards. You are determining your final price before you even know your costs, and you are wondering how much it would cost to build a factory before you even know if anyone wants your product.
You live in a city that only sells blue widgets, and you want to sell red widgets. Do you really think that an investors first question will be, how much does the factory cost? If I were an investor, I would want you to tell me what your product idea is and why people are going to want it. I would want to know that, first and foremost, you spent your time researching the product and the market. Then we could talk about operational details.
How much does it cost to build a factory that makes square tires? I dont know. Does it matter?
All that having been said, I would not think in terms of a factory for this product until the demand is shown to exist. If I were doing this, I would a small to medium-sized workshop selling in your area alone. If that works out you could expand later. Clay and others here have a lot more experience, and will probably have a better idea of costs, but I would think you could buy the equipment for a small chocolate workshop (depending on what you want to make you were not entirely clear on that point) for 50,000 - 75,000. And if you dont want or need to actually make the chocolate, you could reduce that quite a bit.
The complicating factor for expansion of course is that the equipment you buy is based on the quantity you are looking to produce. How much product would you need to make to sell in major cities throughout German? Exactly what type of products are you going to be making? Without knowing that, its impossible to properly decide which equipment to buy. Other costs would depend on whether you wanted a brick and mortar retail presence as opposed to e-commerce, how much marketing you wanted to do, how much legal you need, startup taxes and fees imposed by your local and national governments, initial capital outlays for inventory, etc.
Hey guys
I am researching a project for first year at uni and was wondering if i could get a little help ..
we were asked to pitch a business idea in front of investors( classmates) and since it was just easter and i could not find a vegan easter egg anywhere in berlin( vegan capital of germany) without nuts, as my son has allergies to milk and nuts.. in fact the only vegan egg i could find did have traces of nuts but costed 7 euros per 100g.. that was way too much 
so...
i decided to open a vegan allergen free chocolate factory producing relatively affordable products for children..
question?
1....how much could it roughly cost to set up a factory to produce milk chocolate on a relatively medium to large scale.. so just machinery , not as big as kit kat but enough to cover a vegan market and to ship to major cities in germany
2.... i have a 23g minni bar i am hoping to sell at 60 cents wholesale price what could i reasonable expect the costs in producing this minni bar would be? largest reasonable profit margin possable
thanks so much for taking the time to help me as i have searched the web and it feels like i bit off a bit more than i can chew.. also if anyone does want to make nut free dairy free chocolate... there does seem to be a huge gap in the market here in germany..
thanks again
Ian
My understanding is that the Bakon tempering machine has only been available for a little over a year, so it probably just hasn't worked its way into enough hands yet. That having been said, I've also found it a bit curious that no one ever seems to even mention it. Really, there are people in the witness protection program who get more attention that this unit.
When it comes to continuous tempering machines FBM and Selmi always seem to get the lion's share of attention. They're both solid companies. But I just find that odd. You would think people would talk about other tempering machines from other companies (Savy Goiseau, Sollich, LCM, Bravo, Pomati, GAMI, Frichoc, etc) at least a little. Perhaps Selmi and FBM have just been significantly more aggressive with their US marketing? I don't know.
If you didn't know better, you couldn't be blamed for thinking that this is a 2-horse race. Except it's not.
Hi everyone,
I'm in the market for a continuous tempering machine with a tank capacity of 25kg or higher that has the capability to add on an enrober in the future. I've read all of the posts here from 2012 and 2013, but don't see anyone that has mentioned the Bakon Choco-lution. Does anyone have experience using this machine in their production facility? I'm mostly looking for opinions from users, not sellers (unless you're one and the same!).
Heather
You have two issues to deal with: The law and the actual calculation.
Each state has its own take on the law for alcohol in chocolates. The National Confectionary Association compiles a list of the various state laws...but the versions that you can find online without an account are not quite correct. You need to go to your own state website to find the correct info.
Some states prohibit any alcohol in a confection. Others permit alcohol only from 'flavorings' (excluding alcohol from beverages, even if you are using the beverage only for flavoring, and you have to go to the federal laws to see what the difference is). Some have a limit of 5% ABV, others 0.5% ABV, and still others 0.5% _by weight_.
For Georgia, check out http://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-26/chapter-2/article-2/26-2-26 It looks like Georgia limits you to 0.5% ABV with the alcohol coming from flavoring extracts only.
The second issue is that you need to figure out exactly how much alcohol is actually present in your formulation. In many ways it is easier if you can just figure by weight.
Something that is 40% ABV simply means that 100ml of the total solution consists of 40 ml of pure ethanol plus sufficient other material to make 100ml of total solution. So if you have 310ml of 40% ABV whiskey, then you have 124ml of pure ethanol mixed in with other stuff.
If you then dilute this 310ml of whiskey down to make 1000ml of 'stuff', then the resulting stuff would be 12.4% ABV.
step 1) What is the _volume_ of whiskey you are using (was that 10.5 fluid ounces, or 10.5 ounces by weight??)
step 2) What is the total _volume_ of your finished product (which might be a bit difficult to measure)
step 3) Multiply the volume of whiskey by 0.4 to get the volume of alcohol, and then divide the volume of alcohol by the total formula volume to get the ABV of the finished product.
-Jon
I would still recommend to add 0.4% to 0.5% as a maximum. And if the target viscosity is reached, then further added cocoa butter. Too much lecithin can also lead to problems with tempering and crystallization.
As with almost anything, i'm afraid it's not quite as straightforward as a 0.4% max. While that can certainly be true for some instances, the max amount depends on a number of variables including PE/PC ratios (the actual amount of the functional components found in lecithin - not all lecithin is created equal!), the geometry of the particles one is trying to coat, the amount of moisture present (and if it's present in the form of waters of crystallization or mono-layers or free moisture), the starting viscosity, the starting fat % and the extent to which the fat that is already present has coated the solids, the temperature, the ambient relative humidity, the amount 'work' input into the mass (which is a function of the design of the conche and some mixture of the above elements), etc, etc, etc
For the average individual here, almost none of those elements are known or controllable, and the scale at which they're working is relatively small. The equipment with which they're working is going to require them to utilize more lecithin than is technically necessary were they to have the ability to work with other types of equipment where the work input allows for more control (ie most folks here are adding lecithin to a chocolate that's already either semi-fluid or clay-like in consistency), and as such they are not inputting anywhere near the optimal amount of energy/work to obtain a controllable, optimized conching envelop. Under those conditions, the bridging which occurs with too much lecithin usage, generally doesn't start to appear until 0.9-1.0% usage levels; i recommend starting at 0.3-0.5% and incrementally (0.1%) add more until either the max viscosity reduction is obtained, or the target viscosity is reached - which ever comes first.
There are a number of study researches, which suggests that the maximum supplement lecithin is 0.4%. For example: 1 Kg of chocolate can be added to 4 grams of lecithin. More will lead to a gradual increase in viscosity.
Practical recommendations. Lecithin mix with an equal amount of cocoa butter and add the chocolate for 1-2 hours before the end of work. Formerly adding lecithin is not recommended, as lecithin under the influence of temperature and mechanical stress may collapse and lose their properties.
It'll be most effective if you use fluid lecithin, and added at the beginning of your conch cycle.
HI Everyone.I have a question regarding soylecithin. I know that it is a thinning agent and is used very less amount around 1% but want to know in what state it is used in chocolate liquid or powder form?
Sure, give me Admin rights. I don't have much time available, but maybe I can do a little for the group.
There is already a group called The Science of Chocolate. I think it makes sense if everything get posted there (updates get listed in the Activity list). If you like I can give you some admin rights in the group that you can use to help members more aware of what's going on and we can send general emails to all members about the groups.
One a more prosaic note, if you can help me find a sponsor for the group we can share the revenue.
Clay,
Would you be able to add a new category called "Science"? This would be a place to discuss all of the scientific aspects of cacao and chocolate such as biochemistry etc.
Rotovaps are certainly one way to do it, and you can often find used ones on eBay for a lot less than the new list price.
Another way is to simply macerate (soak) measured amounts of material in measured amounts of solvents for measured amounts of time (for repeatability) - then filter off the material (e.g., grated endive). As long as the solvents are edible you should not have any issues. You may find that a water extraction is useless, for example, but that alcohol pulls out interesting flavors. You can also play with techniques to prepare the material. You could chop the endive with a knife or shred with a microplane grater.
This bad boy (see link below) from PolyScience costs over $9k, but if you are going to make extractions on any regular basis, and you have the budget, you might want to take a look at it. I've been lusting after it for a while now. If things come together with a project I'm working on, I hope to be able to grab one this fall.
No, I haven't tried a tincture yet. I did make a compound, but that was very sweet.
I will try to find out how to make a tincture and see where that takes me.
Thanks for the idea.
Have you tried making extracts/tinctures?
I know that some companies are doing three extractions (water, alcohol, and oil) of some flavorings and then combing them. The result is stronger and more complex than when using the food on its own.
Hello,
I have the following problem:
For months now, I have my mind set on making a chocolate with a Belgian endives filling.
I have made about 10 varied attempts so far andI cannot get it right.
Several pralines gavenice results, but one could not distinguish the Belgian endives, even though a lot of these vegetables went into the filling.
I tried complicated and very simple, but even in a plain white chocolate ganache, the vanilla in the white chocolate overpowered the endive-flavour.
I cannot get the taste of the endives strong enough so that isdistinctive enough.
Can anyone help me, give me any ideas, suggestions,...please?
Or do you know of an interesting foorpairing element that could lead me in the right direction?
Your ideas are very much appreciated.
Thanks
Greatly appreciated. It's all a bit new to me at this stage, but I'm gradually getting there - thanks largely to people like yourself. Thanks again.
My room temp changes a lot depending on weather (not ideal). Once the chocs are out of the fridge, the room can be anywhere between 15-24C. If it gets warmer than that, I turn on the AC. If the AC can't bring the temp down below 24C, it is officially to hot to make chocolates (which happens a bit during summer).
I don't know the scientific benefits of one method over another, but I have used both methods (well, a room at 18-22C rather than a fridge) and both worked fine.
Thanks for the reply, it is greatly appreciated. In response to your reply, I can definitely keep the room I'm working in between 17-19 degrees with our homes heating system - thankfully. I've done two chocolate courses and both used different methods for setting the chocolate. One was at the method I've been using which is to have a cabinet/fridge set at 20-22C, with milk taking 24 hours and dark 12 hours to set. The other school used a blast chilling method which required the chocolate to be placed in a fridge set at 3-4C and removed once set and placed at room temperature to settle. I guess my question then is, why wouldn't this method be adopted by the mainstream, as it clearly allows for more production?
Also, what's the approximate temperature of your room once you take your chocolates from the fridge? Or does it change?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Hopefully you're not trying to do your tempering/moulding in a room that is 4C though - that could be interesting
I often set my chocolate in a conventional fridge (I'm in Australia too). The trick is to take it out once set and not leave it in there too long. So I don't reckon a room temp of 4C would be any problem.
Hi guys, I've been using a Kitchener wine fridge to set my chocolate over the summer months and it's worked great. Although the room can get up to 28Celsius (82Farheneit), the fridge has been keeping itself at the desired 20C (68F). However, now that it's winter (I'm in Australia), the temperatures are beginning to drop. My Kitchener wine fridge does not have a heating element to it, so it is now simply adopting the temperature of the room, which isn't getting above 15C (59F).
Can any one see that there would be a problem with the temperature of the fridge not reaching the desired 20C? Obviously there is no humidity to worry about, but once we really get into winter the room will get into the 5C (41F) and below territory.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Clayton
Okay I understand.
Thanks for the insight!
To follow on with what Sebastian has said, there is no "one, true" temperature for dark chocolate, one for milk chocolate, and one or white chocolate. Every chocolate will have its own set of working temperatures ... but those may change depending on the ambient temperature and humidity and the method of tempering being used. In large industrial processing situations they can control these variables very closely, but in the average small chocolate kitchen it's a different story.
In my experience, there is no substitute for being able to hand temper and to know what tempered chocolate looks like and how it behaves. You use that experience to help you arrive at the temperatures that work for you.
The answer is 'it depends' 8-) there's a great deal here posted already on tempering, so i'll not rehash that - you'll need to do some digging here to find it. But suffice it to say that due to differences in cocoa butter compositions (not all cocoa butters are equal), and the influence of other soft fats (milk fat, nut fats, emulsifiers, etc), and 'degree of temper' - you're going to end up with a range. Very sophisticated operations have the ability to control their raw materials streams and the knowledge to narrow down that range quite a bit, but for the average joe, that's just not necessary
I read about tempering in different resources and I see different temperatures stated.
For dark chocolate, some online articles say melt to 55c, others 45c.
The book I read "Chocolates & Confections" say 50c.
Why are the differences? What are the true temperatures for dark, milk and white?
Thanks!
You need to begin with cocoa liquor, and partially defat it somehow (most use high pressure hydraulic presses). That resluts in a very hard wheel of mostly cocoa solids that needs to be ground up into a powder. Adding cocoa butter back sort of defeats the purpose of taking it out in the first place. adding liquid sweeteners to chocolate is always a hard thing to do. adding a liquid sweetener to defatted cocoa powder - depending on how defatted it really is - can be much easier (think chocolate syrup)
What are your thoughts aboutmaking chocolate from cacao powder + cocoa butter + liquid sweetener?
What is the resulting quality of chocolate?
Does it require grinding or conching?
Can you layout or direct me to a basic recipe for ratios of powder-butter-sweetener?
Thanks!
sorry for the delay I just saw this message. The machine they quoted me was a lab scale bean to bar.
Without revealing the price of the machines, can you provide links to pages where the equipment that has been quoted to you can be seen for us to evaluate?
Semira -
I have seen quotes of US$500,000 to over US$1,000,000 for complete lines from European manufacturers for production in this daily amount.
On the other hand, I have seen workshops with 500kg/day production where the investment in equipment is under $300,000 - so we're talking a lot more than a couple of thousands of dollars.
