Forum Activity for @Larry2

I wish there were like buttons.  Like to all the above  posts.

I chuckled when I read this.  I have Bernard Callebaut.  You have Rick Mast.  Let's unite and declare Jihad on such despicable chocolate infidels!

behold, the power of marketing!

It just keeps getting better - a gift the keeps on giving!

"Another step is tempering, where chocolate goes from its naturally bumpy texture to the smooth surface we are used to as consumers."

Chocolate has a naturally bumpy texture. Who knew? Wonder what branch of topology that belongs to? But is topology maths, not physics?

Pretty Stupid, Apparently.

In a June, 2014 article on the World Science Festival website entitled, The Mast Bros Unveil the Physics Behind Chocolate , some rather amazing claims are made, and not all of them about the physics of chocolate. To be fair, it's impossible to know if the quotes attributed to Rick Mast are accurate or whether the reporter took a liberal interpretation. Either way, the site, which encourages visitors to "rethink" science [sic], is presenting a revisionist version of chocolate  physics.

"... raw beans have a much higher acidity level so it’s a more botanic flavor,” Mast said. “Roasting brings out other flavors to balance out the acidity.” The bean’s sugar and protein molecules gain energy in the higher temperature, and that increased activity leads to new atoms coming together and new molecules being formed."

There is so much unnecessary obfuscation in the above paragraph I don't know where to begin. Sugar and protein molecules gain energy creating new atoms? Okay, the beans heat up and chemicals in the chocolate change. Why not give the compounds names? Pyrazines, furans, esters, and ketones are among the classes of compounds formed during roasting, Rick, via processes knows as the Maillard reaction, Strecker degredation, and pyrolysis/polymerization, among others. It's science, not sex education, you can be explicit - the more explicit the better - with chemical names and processes, they are not pornographic, are they? Are they too explicit for young scientists' ears?

Furthermore, the flavors created do NOT directly balance out the acidity. Which acid? Acetic or citric? Some of the acetic acid evaporates out [during roasting], but enough remains so that the Dutch had to invent alkalization to neutralize it  (oops, that's history, not physics) . Conching does reduce acidity among other things (and arguably, the Mast Bros do not conche properly if at all) - and conching effects acetic acid more than citric acid which is why some chocolates have bright fruity notes and others don't. Fruitiness is not a generally-recognized flavor trait of alkalized chocolate, however.

"... For that to happen, the particles have to be just a miniscule [sic] 20 microns across (for comparison, the width of a strand of hair is 50 microns) § . The grind “is still acidic until all the sugar crystals have slowly emulsified with the cocoa butter so it tastes like one thing" 

​I am sorry. Could. Not. Stop. Laughing. The chocolate is still acidic until the sugar has emulsified with the cocoa butter? No. That's not the way it works.  

First off, chocolate is not an emulsion. Chocolate is a suspension of particles in fat. Emulsifiers are used to reduce the surface tension of the fat molecules so the chocolate flows more easily. There is no physical process (and no chemical process) that I am aware of that reduces the acidity in chocolate by simple grinding, emulsification or no.  There is a reason why the chocolate is just so bad.

After eight years, Rick still appears to know very little about the real science - physics and chemistry - of chocolate. To give him some benefit of the doubt ... maybe he does know the science but chooses not to communicate it clearly. I don't know - but the end result is the same. 

§ - Or maybe not. According to Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_micrometres) the average width of a human hair is 100 microns. Footnoted as: ^According to The Physics Factbook, the diameter of human hair ranges from 17 to 181 µm. Ley, Brian (1999). But - maybe red beard hairs average 50 microns? Yeah. That has to be it.

[Note: edited to fix typos on 11/21/15.]

Sebastian:  I'd compete for sure if you were that voice.

Keith:  Clay's definition is really close for sure, but....  his statement of "all stages of the transformation of raw cocoa beans into finished chocolate..." needs to be clarified, or at the very least the word "raw" removed.  Raw can be interpreted many ways, and in fact today, almost NO manufacturer, large or small has complete control over the raw product.  They/we all get cocoa beans after they have been fermented and dried by the grower - a process which is crucial in the step of making good chocolate.  (in the case of large manufacturers, some of the beans they get aren't even fermented, as the grower has no idea they need to do so!)   In my case, two of the varieties of cocoa beans I buy, I do have some say in how they are fermented and dried, but in two other cases I don't.  However, I still get the cocoa beans whole, and in sacks, and still have to roast, crack and fan, and then grind them up into chocolate, which I then sell at full retail price in my store.  Whether I control the fermentation process or not should be irrelevant, as I still get the beans and turn them into bars, ergo, bean to bar.  The quality of the bean when I get it is, in my opinion and for the purpose of definition of the competitive category, irrelevant.  In fact this is why the competition is in place.  It's hard to make a good chocolate out of crappy cocoa beans!

I also agree that a company should never play with a consumer's trust.  Frankly it's a shame that I have to compete in a market where at least one of my peers (and a well known one at that), has lied to consumers for many years, and to this very day continues to do so.  When I stand up and speak the truth, I'm often looked upon as the bad guy.  It's sad really....

Cheers and thanks for your input.

Brad

The Cocoa Research Center in Trinidad and Tobago has some courses. I don't know if that's what you're looking for but here's the link : 

https://sta.uwi.edu/cru/training.asp

Regards,

José

The cocoa's where all the money is anyway - the chocolate business was nice to have (who doesn't like to say they have a chocolate company), but the reality is the money maker was - and is - the cocoa side of the business.

I'll start a new business model around 'certified bean to bar' validation.  I'll be the 3rd party voice of credibility 8-)

Not sure I have a place here, as I'm just a layperson and consumer who likes really good stuff, but to me, "bean-to-bar" is Clay's definition, as he stated above.  Not complicated.  Bean-to-bar is bean-to bar, period.  You have a handle on it from start to finish.  If you don't, then that's fine, too.  Good chocolate doesn't always have to be bean-to-bar, but just say what it is. 

To a lay consumer, a little honesty goes a long way.  And if we find out you're lying or being deceptive.....it's REALLY not good for business.  A company should never play with a customer's trust.

According to a recent press release,

Cargill’s acquisition of ADM’s global chocolate and compound business in August of this year included the deZaan-branded line of premium gourmet chocolate, but the acquisition did not include the deZaan trademark itself. As such, we have decided to discontinue selling these products in North America [beginning in November].

There is a link in the attached update that can be used to learn (a little bit) more about the decision.

DeZaan Gourmet Update.pdf - 121KB

I use the Mol D'art 6Kg melter http://www.moldart.be/en/producten/chocolate-machinery/chocolate-melters/. It is not a tempering maching like the Mini Rev. I only use it to keep chocolate that I manually tempered at a constant temperature while I mold. Take a look at the www.chocolatealchemy.com for more information about making chocolate. There is also a forum on that site that has lots of info.

Hi Balpreet,

You probably just need to run the grinder longer. I make chocolate (bean to bar) using the Premier wet/dry grinder and it comes out very smooth. However, I run it at least 24 hours. You may want to look at www.chocolatealchemy.com. It's a great resource for making chocolate and the forum there has much discussion about equipment including wet/dry grinders. Most of the people there are home or small chcocolate makers.

Regards,

Thomas

Balpreet:

Wet grinders are just small melangeurs. However, melangeurs purpose-made for chocolate were designed and built to process cocoa beans. Small wet-mill grinders used in making chocolate were designed to handle much softer materials (think cooked lentils) and to run for short periods of time (think less than thirty minutes).

"Real" chocolate melangeurs use much harder granite and are designed to run for hours at a time. There are also some very specific differences with respect to axle design that separate the two – wet grinders have a single axle, for example.

One thing they do share in common is that they are not conches. And they never will be conches. Despite what the manufacturers claim. Despite what chocolate makers claim. They are not conches. They may deliver some of the benefits of conching, but very inefficiently.

Hi i just want to know what is the difference betweeen a wet grinder and a melanguer.

I have a wet grinder with capacity 5 litre (image as link under, its almost like this) but while making chocolate ( from cocoapowder, cocoa butter, sugar ) and making it run for around 8-10 hours it still feels gritty ... is wet grinder different from a melanguer?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Wet_grinder.JPG

I would like to package our hot chocolate recipe so that our clients can make it at home. I need it to be able to be sold outside of a fridge, on a shelf. The base that is usually used is a water based ganache and a 65% chocolate. That is then added to hot milk or just heated on it's own as a thick hot chocolate drink. I am looking to either sell it as a dry mix or as a liquid ganache with instructions to add to hot milk. Is there a way of "canning" the ganache? Any advice on hot chocolate that is sold to the public  as a mix is greatly appreciated.

Hello!

I was wondering if someone knew of Chocolate Technology courses other than the one that Chocolate Academy and ZDS Solingen offer.

Thank you  

I arrived quite late in this subject but I'm very interested. I'm reading and re-reading The Science of Chocolate book, it's one of my all-time favorites but I haven't gotten to the part that speaks of beta 6 crystals and its tendency to bloom.

How can you know if your packaged chocolate blooms and it's due to change in temperature or crystals? Why is the 6th called "the more stable" if it blooms with time? I haven't read about this topic anywhere else.

Just wondering what kind of cases everyone uses to display chocolate.  The standard deli cases would be too cold.  Is there a manufacturer for chocolate cases?  I'm going to have a booth selling chocolate at a fall festival outside and most days will be chilly but it can get close to 80 and sunny sometimes. 

Clay;

Thanks.

FWIW, I think bean to bar should be defined as "...all steps in the production of chocolate, including but not limited to purchasing. roasting, cracking and fanning, refining and conching cocoa beans into chocolate, must be done in-house.  No step can be contracted to a third party.  Furthermore, all steps in the production of the chocolate confections submitted for competition must also be done in house, with only the chocolate made in-house."  This is truly a definition of bean to bar.

Cheers.

Brad

Brad Churchill:
Hi Adrienne I hope to be able to increase volume enough in the new year to offer my bars over the web all over North America.  I've already bought some of the equipment.  Now I just need a place to install it and put it to work!   The reason I don't ship right now, is because I can't meet local demand.   Cheers Brad

Brad,

      I d love to try some of your chooclate as well. I trade you some of my santas and snowmen for some samples!!!!

Brad -

I reached out to a member of the Academy of Chocolate and shared my observation that the guidelines, as written, enabled pretty much everyone to qualify as "bean-to-bar" even if what they were doing was sourcing cocoa beans from a broker and shipping them for private label production.

The response I got was tepid, but my guess is that they will look at the issue more closely before the next competition. They will be holding their bi-annual meeting next October and I am going to suggest that this is a topic that gets discussed. In public. With everyone contributing.

Thanks sebastian for your help

Wow Gerhard congratulations you have some really nice work in your website

Hi there check out the Swiss chocolate melter. It's Swiss but not that expensive I think 

https://www.kreaswiss.com/en/food-equipment/chocMELTER20kg

Hi Adrienne

I hope to be able to increase volume enough in the new year to offer my bars over the web all over North America.  I've already bought some of the equipment.  Now I just need a place to install it and put it to work!  ;-)

The reason I don't ship right now, is because I can't meet local demand.

Cheers

Brad

Brad,

I live here in New York City and would love to try your bars and confections and share with my chocolate colleague Brady

but I don't think you ship to the states and I can't get to where you are.

Congratulations to all of the finalists!

CHOCOLATE

• Areté Fine Chocolate – Camino Verde 75% Dark Chocolate, California 
• Brasstown Chocolate – Ecuador 75% & Belize 70%, North Carolina 
• Charm School Chocolate – 70% Dark Belize, Maryland
• Creo Chocolate – Purely Dark, Oregon
• Dick Taylor Craft Chocolate – 70% Bolivia, Alto Beni, California
• Escazu Artisan Chocolates – 70% Piura Blanco, Peru, North Carolina
• Fruition Chocolate – Bolivian Wild Harvest 74% & Nacional Dark Milk 68%, New York
• Just Good Chocolate – Madagascar 70%, Michigan 
• Lonohana Estate Chocolate – Kanahiku 70% Dark, Hawaii 
• Nathan Miller Chocolate – Gingerbread Bar, Pennsylvania
• Patric Chocolate – Triple Ginger & Browned Butter Bar & Red Coconut Curry, Missouri
• Ritual Chocolate – Mid Mountain Blend & Belize 75%, Utah
• Rogue Chocolatier – Jamaica & Tranquilidad, Massachusetts
• SPAGnVOLA – 70% Single- Estate Dominican Republic & 75% Single Estate Dominican Republic, Maryland

CONFECTIONS

• American Spoon – Chocolate Fudge Sauce, Michigan
• Amy E's Bakery – Peanut Brittle, Oregon
• Ashby Confections – Fresh Orange Sour Strips & Salty Desert Heat, California
• Askinosie Chocolate – Hey, Hey Chocolate Hazelnut Spread, Missouri
• Batch PDX – Batch Bar & Twicks Bar, Oregon 
• Bees & Beans – Honey Bar Reserve, Oregon 
• Bixby & Co. – Nutty For You, Maine
• Black Dinah Chocolatiers – Maine Mint Truffle, Maine
• Ethereal Confections – Blood Orange and Vanilla Bean Meltaway, Illinois
• Farm Chocolate – Panforte in Dark, California
• Fat Toad Farm – Fat Toad Farm Original Goat's Milk Caramel Sauce, Vermont
• French Broad Chocolates – Hazelnut & Almond Dragee, North Carolina
• JJ's Sweets Cocomels – Palm Sugar Cocomel, Colorado
• Katherine Anne Confections – Cucumber Cooler Caramel, Illinois 
• Lake Champlain Chocolates – Apple Cider Caramels, Vermont 
• Little Apple Treats – Rose and Cocoa nib Caramels, California 
• McCrea's Candies – Black Lava Sea Salt Caramels, Massachusetts
• Neo Cocoa – Toffee Nib Brittle, California
• Nosh This – Lavender Crack, California
• Sapore della Vita – Caramel Sauce & Torrone & Totally Fudged- Chocolate Fudge Sauce, Florida
• Serendipity Confections – Chocolate Covered Butter Caramels with Fleur de Sel, Wyoming
• St. Croix Chocolate Co. – Wild Grape and Peanut Butter Bar, Minnesota
• Videri Chocolate Factory – Sugarplum Ganache Bonbon, North Carolina

I'm not aware of a standard size. the 7.5MM base worked out well for me, and we were lucky enough to find one on here.

When we hand-cut our pieces, they were just under 1" square. Thus the 22.5MM frame was a flawless transition.

There should be plenty of packaging to fit your piece.

-a word on ordering candy cups from my experience. pay attention to the base size and the # cup. Make sure they match. I ordered a case of candy cups that were "Supposed" to be exactly what I needed. However when they came, they were a different size. The seller's PDF showing the different cups available had a space in the wrong location. So, the size was actually a LOT smaller than anticipated. The candy cup number i.e. #4, #5... was correct, but it had the wrong description. The seller worked with me to correct the problem, and offered me a discount on another case of candy cups that were the right size, but I still have a large case of very small candy cups... Just sayin, read the label on the case before you open it...  

Oh the things you learn.

I use different types of coconut oil in specific confections. 

I prefer using the unrefined oil for the most part, although with more delicate confections, I have an option of a more refined product, that retains most of the characteristics of the unrefined, but with no coconut taste. Costco carries both types, here.

Except in the dead of summer, I find confections made with coconut oil hold up pretty well, with limited leakage issues. I do live in a cooler climate, so this isn't as big of an issue...I'd imagine it would be more of an issue for some of you. In warmer climes, the oil does find fissures in the outer chocolate shell to exploit, if you plan on enrobing your product.

In Greweling's book, he suggest one plays with ratios up to 28% coconut oil, for different mouth feels.

Coconut cream is nice in ganaches...I have a confection that uses it in place of cream. I havent conducted any really lengthy tests on its shelf life yet, but it easily doubles the shelf life of a confection, as compared to cream-based.

I'll second the Mol d'Art suggestion. 

I use different ones, sized from 3kg up to 12kg...they serve their purpose very well, and the price is right. They're very lightweight, can be easily moved around the kitchen, and can be put away when not in use.

If you are referring to the Academia de Cacao in Nicaragua, the course in May is not yet filled. However, it is not bean-to-bar class, it's rooted in what you need to know to improve cocoa quality.

Hi Larry,

Would you suggest getting a guitar cutter with a 5mm or 7.5 mm base? I'm wondering if there is a "standard". My hope is to make some savory chocolates which will be smaller in size, but for larger pieces, I'm wondering if there's a more common size (e.g. candy cups, etc.).

Thanks,

Annalynn

Are you open to buy new or used? My recommendation is to look for a "used table top fully automatic with depositor":

With a 4K budget you may be able to get a used table top full automatic tempering machine with depositor (Brand new range will be between 5 to 10K)

Here are few examples:

FULL AUTO

http://www.tcfsales.com/products/659-fbm-AURA-Table-Top-Auto-Tempering-Machine/ ( For more information contact Clay Gordon via ChocolateLife )

http://www.savagebros.com/p.26/50-lb-20-kg-table-top-chocolate-melter-conditioner.aspx 

SEMI AUTO (with depositor)

http://www.tcfsales.com/products/623-LCM-Table-Top-Tempering-Machine-with-Pump-25-kg/

SEMI AUTO (Mini Wheel)

http://perfectinc.com/en/tempering/mini-wheel-tempering-air-20 

http://www.tcfsales.com/products/557-DEDY-Mini-Molding-Machine-23-kg/

http://www.bakonusa.com/chocolate-machines/choco-tt 

Directly to customers. I buy wafers and melt them down. Around 4000$

There is a lot of melting and tempering machines with a depositor head in the market. I still have few more questions to help you better:

1 - Based on the quantity, I am assuming you are selling your bars directly to your customers (individuals/online customers or smaller specialty retailer) and not via retail stores (major retailer), correct?

If you intend to sell your bars via retail stores you may need a volumetric controled pump and custom depositor for your mold - major retailers usually require weight accuracy and those custom depositors could run you expensive)

2 - Do you MAKE your chocolate (bean to bar) or Purchase Blocks/Discs from 3rd party Chocolate maker and what is the typical batch of chocolate you make/melt on a daily basis (How many Kg) (based on your answer I am assuming you melt 3rd party blocks/discs - correct me If I am wrong)?

3 - What is your budget (range) for the equipment?

PS - A 600 bars daily batch, seems a large quantity of bars to be produced via Microwave Melting/Manual Tempering 

I'd like to queue up for this machine, if the other folks don't buy it first. 

I, too, am in California. 

Cheers.

d

I make milk and white chocolate bars. Currently using microwave to melt and piping bags to fill the molds. Make roughly 600 bars in a day looking for a machine to take my melted chocolate and dispense it into molds

@niewulis, in order to provide you with an accurate answer, what is the volume of bars you're going to produce, how many types of chocolate (dark, milk ..) and how many types of bars (just single size or more?) what kind of equipment do you currently have?

 I will be interrested in both of them or one of them can you please reach me at cocoaglobe@gmail.com

Thank you,

Ruth