Forum Activity for @Virgilio Rubini

Don't have much use for it. Was for a bulk program that didn't materialize.

Why are you getting rid of it?  Is hand filling easier?  

Has anyone tried using sunflower lecithin rather than soy? If so what would be the best option. Would one buy the powder or the liquid. Would the amount added still be the same and what is the ideal amount added. I've read 0.3% as a good amount for the soy version.

For sale

Ships from Champlain NY

Bought in 2013 used only a dozen times. Asking $ 3,000.00 This compact unit delivers accurately metered ganach fillings with tremendous flexibility. Stainless steel construction with eight adjustable depositing nozzles that can be easily positioned to your mould layout. Tank Capacity: 10 lbs / 4.54kg Power Requirements: 110V, single phase Dimensions: w: 15.75" x l: 20.5" x h: 22.5"

 A-1600-228x228.jpg - 24KB

Hi,

I tried to grind in the Santha black sesame (not whole grain) I add a little bit of oil. It runs almost 10 hours and it's still grainy, another thing is that is to bitter.

To make "raw" nut butters you need days of grinding? how come that the tahini is not as bitter as I get (by far)?

I planning to make unroasted coconut butter and I just want to know if and where I go wrong..

Thank's

Thanks, I'll take all that into consideration and figure it out. That's a great help. We both refuse to use soy and her current couverture has no lecithin in it already so no worries on that.

Based on your recipe and assuming 50% ccb in your liquor, your fat content would be 0.5 * 56% + 14% = 42% total fat. This is quite high and might actually be higher than a commercial couverture depending on what she is using . . . there might actually be more cocoa butter in your chocolate than her current couverture. Of course, you will have a different manufacturing technique (different roasting, refining and conching etc) which can all affect the final product. Also, you don't seem to have lecithin which the commercial product probably does.

It is possible to approximate the commercial couverture recipe assuming we're only talking about dark chocolate/couverture? Does her current couverture have a nutritional label with fat (in grams) per 100 grams of product? In Australia, we have that on the nutritional labels and that combined with the cocoa solids % of the chocolate will let you estimate the recipe for the chocolate. An example is (apologies for all the maths, but it's the only way I can think to try and replicate her exact couverture):

Assume at 70% chocolate/couverture that has 39g of fat per 100g serving size (so 39% Total Fat)

You also have to make an assumption about what % of the liquor is cocoa butter: I will assume 51% of the liquor is ccb.

So;

From the cocoa solids = 70%, we know [1][Liquor + CCB = 70%]

And from Total Fat = 39%, we know [2][51% x Liquor + CCB = 39%]

From the first equation: CCB = 70% - Liquor

Substitute that into the second equation 51% x Liquor + 70% - Liquor = 39%

Re-arrange to get Liquor = 63.27%

Therefore, CCB = 6.73%

So the chocolates recipe is estimated as:

Nibs/Liquor   63.27%

CCB   6.73%

Sugar  29.6%

Lecithin  0.4% (most commercial couvertures use lecithin)

We can check the recipe by using the first two equations above:

1: 63.27%+6.73% = 70% cocoa content

2. 51% x 63.27% + 6.73% = 39% total fat content

So then basically all chocolate over 70% dark is considered couverture? 

The reason I want clarification is that I am grinding my own chocolate and I am working with a local artisan and want to become her supplier for her couverture as she makes truffles but I make chocolate bars. I am having trouble finding out what proportions of liquor to butter I would need to grind in order to make a couverture that would be similar to what she is already using. It will be a 70% so 30% will be sugar but other than that I do not know. My chocolate bars have a ratio of:

56% Paste or Liquor

14% Butter

30% sugar

So basically I just wanna know how much more butter I should add to a recipe for her truffles. Are these only determined experimentally or are there any resources for me to find what commercial couvertures use for ratios?

I disagree. What about a chocolate made with 50% liquor and 50% sugar. That would have ~25% cocoa butter which would not meet the EU minimum of 31% (I'm basing that 31% on a quick look at the Wikipedia page linked above for chocolate standards, I haven't checked its up-to-date) - note, different countries have different standards as well.

Once again, I disagree. Couverture is supposed to have more cocoa butter than regular eating chocolate. Basically that makes it easier to work with when making moulded chocolates or dipped chocolates. 

I think the Wikipedia page linked above gives a good illustration (although I'm not sure if it is the latest in standards). For EU standards, both chocolate and couverture chocolate must have 35%+ total dry cocoa solids. But chocolate need only have 18%+ cocoa butter, whereas couverture must have 31%+ cocoa butter.

That can't be right though because then by that definition all chocolate made with liquor is also called couverture. If the definition of couverture is a butter content between 32 and 39% then just having a 70% chocolate made with liquor and no added butter is considered couverture and that just does not make sense because couverture is supposed to be more rich than just plain liquor on its own.

Don't forget liquor has cocoa butter in it (anywhere from 47-56%). If we assume the liquor is 50% cocoa butter then, as an example,

70% chocolate made up of 60% liquor + 10% cocoa butter

Total cocoa butter = 60% x 50% + 10% = 40% total cocoa butter in the chocolate

OR

70% chocolate made up of 65% liquor + 5% cocoa butter

Total cocoa butter = 65% x 50% + 5% = 37.5% total cocoa butter in the chocolate

When you see that couverture is a higher percentage of cocoa butter it usually states it's around 32% to 39%. Is this in relation to the cocoa liquor or is it a total including the sugar. Would a 70% couverture be?

39% butter

31% liquor

30% sugar

Or would it be?

39% butter

61% liquor

Then mixed with 30% sugar in the same proportion above.

The name of the game here is to be sure to try it on your chocolate before buying.  Everyone's pushing online calibrations (ie it reads your sample, and adds it to it's baseline calibration file with the argument that it makes everyone's stronger).  Because of the high matrix sensitivity of NIR, "Jimmys" calibration curve doesn't mean anything really to "Johnnys" actual chocolate - as Jimmy has different process, raw material sourcing, and formulation than Johnny does.

Their argument is sort of a 'wisdom of crowds' argument applied to calibration.  It just doesn't work that well i'm afraid.  if you've got a very similar type of chocolate and process it works fantastically well (in fact i've built networks of matrixed NIR nodes all around the world to do just that) - but as a general 'catch all' for anything chocolate - not so much.

HI, I want to buy a Used Firemixer 14 Table Top, I am Ohio, but looking all over for it, thank you for all replies,

Or can contact me at giveme153@yahoo.com

Thank you again, Brian

Spectral Engines has a new NIR instrument: http://www.spectralengines.com/applications/food-composition that has some interesting (at least to me) aspects.

Unity Scientific also has an NIR instrument - but importantly it has databases of characterized samples that could serve as baseline measurements. I think the machine is under $30k.

Mark -

Raw and Modican chocolate are not necessarily the same thing. 

The whole idea with raw is to purposefully keep the temperature below a certain degree with the specific intent of not killing "living enzymes" or reducing the nutrient content of the beans.

Modican chocolate is a specific style that pre-dates the industrial revolution. It was very difficult to apply enough pressure to reduce particle size. I have never heard that temperature was a control point for Modican chocolate. Can you point me to some manufacturers that state this? Doña Elvira? Antica Dolceria Bonajuto?

Where is the mill located? And who is the maker?

Remember that NIR is VERY matrix dependent (and temperature dependent).  Be sure you have a calibration curve for each type of chocolate that you're plan to run (ie, a generic 'milk chocolate' calibration won't be very accurate for all milk chocolates, and certainly not for dark or white chocolates).  Run all your samples at a fixed temperature (including the plate the samples will sit on - probably easiest to get a small warming oven and set it to 50C and just keep everything inside of it).

good luck!

Hi Sebastian,

Thank you for your opinion.

I will need to do about about 3 on average and a maximum of 7 test per day, over 2 shifts so I may start with gravimetric and if this takes too much time buy the instruments. Based on your point about impact of metal content on results NIR looks like a better option.

Peter 

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Inventory: Included in asking price. Facilities: Newly renovated 1500 square foot facility with all new manufacturing equipment, handicapped accessible bathroom, and ample parking. Competition: Prime location in historic downtown area. We are the only small-batch bean-to bar chocolate manufacturer in the state. Growth & Expansion: This start-up business carries tremendous upside potential to grow as an internationally renowned brand in a short time because of the steadily growing demand for ethically sourced craft chocolate, the top level quality of our product, and the unique integrity of our process. Support & Training: Seller is committed to providing a minimum of three weeks hands-on training to the buyer.

Hi, The 3 Roll Mill is still available, may you be interested.. Kind regards, Ewald Rietberg. It has mirror polished and hardened SS316 rollers, and a safety frill on top. CE certified and one year guarantee. Costs 1680 dollar excl shipping. Regards, Ewald Rietberg (ewaldmrietberg@gmail.com)

Here's the instruction manual.  I would talk to Luc at Bakon USA for the replacement part.

Hope this helps,

Erin

Chocotec60Instructions.pdf - 377KB

Hi Jennifer (thanks David), full disclosure, I sell the Diamond Custom Machines Commercial Refiner in both 70 and 100 lb capacity.  I would be more than happy to answer any questions you have.

You can PM me here but may have a quicker response if you send an email to info@indichocolate.com (no spam please).

Thanks,

Erin

I would be interested in attending too, especially if it could be coordinated with other cacao events happening in Colombia.

When I receive my beans I open the bags and do a quick clean before putting them in sealed bins.  This has really helped reduce problems.

If it looks like moths could be a problem I use dry ice at the top of the bin in a dish.  This has worked well for me.

If you want the Chocolate Refiners mentioned, they are available at http://indichocolate.com/products/chocolate-refiner?variant=7781420993

Sorry I didn't see this post sooner. I sell the upgraded belts as well as better gears for the demands of making chocolate on my website ( http://indichocolate.com/products/chocolate-machine-replacement-parts?variant=1168767445).

Thanks, Erin!

Keep in touch.  indi chocolate is the bean to bar chocolate maker in PIke Place Market.  We'll be moving to a bigger facility in the Market next year...

I don't know about larger machines, but if you like the Premiers, there are these versions which have been "upgraded" specifically for chocolate making:

http://indichocolate.com/products/chocolate-refiner?variant=7781420993

Chat to them about gears etc as well - I think they have improved gears and belts for the standard Premiers.

Hey guys,

I'm glad you wanted to resurrect this thread as I am soon to be in the market for a new Melangeur. I have been running two Premiers for over a year. The gears keep wearing down though, and they struggle with how fast I want to add the nibs (which I sometimes pre-grind). 

However I love the quality of Chocolate they can produce. My biggest worry is that a Santha or other machine under $5k might not refine down to a small particle... under 20micron... ?

Also worried about the other issues you have all pointed out. Does anyone have a decent machine they acquired for less than $5k?

I have considered buying 2 more Premier and just paying someone to upgrade all the gear parts... I am able to load them up 4kg each... so that would be 16kg and the premiers are only around $400 each delivered... but Im sure the running costs would be less for a single 20kg machine.

hi,

just a quick question which has been bothering me a little. isn't "RAW chocolate" another word for "Modica chocolate"?

RAW chocolate is a 'cold-process' type of chocolate, and so is Modica Chocolate.

Modica chocolate is made from cocoa paste which is heated at 40 deg, mixed with sugar and put in molds when it reaches 30 deg.

Am I missing something?

Thanks

@ben-rasmussen or anyone else who might be able to help me troubleshoot this - I thought the chocolate turned out perfect. However, when I poured it out, I could see a very slight pooling of oil on the surface of the chocolate. It's almost imperceptible, and I haven't noticed an off taste at all. I rinsed the machine with hot water, and let that water cool in a jar, and this cooled chocolate water also has a very subtle congealed something on the surface. (like cooled fat, but less than tissue-thin). I'm planning to take the whole thing apart and clean, plus reseal the epoxy. But I'll feel better if I can also determine what this oil is. I've contacted the former owner to see if it had anything else run through (vegetable oil for cleaning, nuts, lecithin, etc). Ideas about how to identify what this is? 

When calculating it's important to know that cocoa beans generally range in fat from 47-53%. Most chocolate manufacturers don't provide the ratio fat to non-fat solids, including any added cocoa butter in their recipes. You can get this information on most commercial couvertures by asking the manufacturer. However, if you do not actually test the bean (or liquor) you don't know the precise fat content so it's impossible to know the ratio of fat to non-fat solids in your product -- and hence, calories from fat and other nutritional data.

James: 

Cocoa mass == cocoa liquor == chocolate liquor == ground up cocoa (nib) with nothing added.

To make cocoa butter/cocoa powder, you put the cocoa mass/liquor into a press and apply heat and pressure to separate them.

Everything from the cocoa bean is technically a cocoa solid. There are two types of solids:

1. Non-fat cocoa solids (the powder with zero fat)
2. Fat (cocoa butter is solid at room temperature)

i did actually try searching the forums a bit earlier, but not a lot came up, will maybe do a bit more digging then.

Thanks for your reply though, that does clear it up for me.

Think it has largely been confusing terminology. found this online, let me know if you agree with it.

http://chocolateincontext.blogspot.co.uk/2007/08/chocolate-linguistics-2-cocoa-mass-v.html

so:

cocoa solids = anything that has come from a cocoa bean, be it the amount of actual beans you use and/or any added extra cocoa butter. Which would tie in with what you said about white chocolate

cocoa mass = 'the brown part' produced from pressing the liquour/solids i.e. cocoa powder

This has been discussed in some detail elsewhere on these forums. You could do a search and find a bunch of threads dealing with it.

The cacao percentage of a chocolate includes both non-fat cacao solids and cocoa butter. Technically, a 70% bar could be made up of any of the following:

• 70% nibs, 0% added CB
• 0% nibs, 70% CB 
• anywhere inbetween the above two

So, I would probably say that the statement that there are no cacao solids in white chocolate is incorrect. I suppose you could have a 70% cacao white chocolate, but I'd imagine it would be pretty gross.  :)