I don't know about larger machines, but if you like the Premiers, there are these versions which have been "upgraded" specifically for chocolate making:
http://indichocolate.com/products/chocolate-refiner?variant=7781420993
Chat to them about gears etc as well - I think they have improved gears and belts for the standard Premiers.
Hey guys,
I'm glad you wanted to resurrect this thread as I am soon to be in the market for a new Melangeur. I have been running two Premiers for over a year. The gears keep wearing down though, and they struggle with how fast I want to add the nibs (which I sometimes pre-grind).
However I love the quality of Chocolate they can produce. My biggest worry is that a Santha or other machine under $5k might not refine down to a small particle... under 20micron... ?
Also worried about the other issues you have all pointed out. Does anyone have a decent machine they acquired for less than $5k?
I have considered buying 2 more Premier and just paying someone to upgrade all the gear parts... I am able to load them up 4kg each... so that would be 16kg and the premiers are only around $400 each delivered... but Im sure the running costs would be less for a single 20kg machine.
hi,
just a quick question which has been bothering me a little. isn't "RAW chocolate" another word for "Modica chocolate"?
RAW chocolate is a 'cold-process' type of chocolate, and so is Modica Chocolate.
Modica chocolate is made from cocoa paste which is heated at 40 deg, mixed with sugar and put in molds when it reaches 30 deg.
Am I missing something?
Thanks
@ben-rasmussen or anyone else who might be able to help me troubleshoot this - I thought the chocolate turned out perfect. However, when I poured it out, I could see a very slight pooling of oil on the surface of the chocolate. It's almost imperceptible, and I haven't noticed an off taste at all. I rinsed the machine with hot water, and let that water cool in a jar, and this cooled chocolate water also has a very subtle congealed something on the surface. (like cooled fat, but less than tissue-thin). I'm planning to take the whole thing apart and clean, plus reseal the epoxy. But I'll feel better if I can also determine what this oil is. I've contacted the former owner to see if it had anything else run through (vegetable oil for cleaning, nuts, lecithin, etc). Ideas about how to identify what this is?
When calculating it's important to know that cocoa beans generally range in fat from 47-53%. Most chocolate manufacturers don't provide the ratio fat to non-fat solids, including any added cocoa butter in their recipes. You can get this information on most commercial couvertures by asking the manufacturer. However, if you do not actually test the bean (or liquor) you don't know the precise fat content so it's impossible to know the ratio of fat to non-fat solids in your product -- and hence, calories from fat and other nutritional data.
cocoa mass = 'the brown part' produced from pressing the liquour/solids i.e. cocoa powder
James:
Cocoa mass == cocoa liquor == chocolate liquor == ground up cocoa (nib) with nothing added.
To make cocoa butter/cocoa powder, you put the cocoa mass/liquor into a press and apply heat and pressure to separate them.
So, I would probably say that the statement that there are no cacao solids in white chocolate is incorrect.
Everything from the cocoa bean is technically a cocoa solid. There are two types of solids:
i did actually try searching the forums a bit earlier, but not a lot came up, will maybe do a bit more digging then.
Thanks for your reply though, that does clear it up for me.
Think it has largely been confusing terminology. found this online, let me know if you agree with it.
http://chocolateincontext.blogspot.co.uk/2007/08/chocolate-linguistics-2-cocoa-mass-v.html
so:
cocoa solids = anything that has come from a cocoa bean, be it the amount of actual beans you use and/or any added extra cocoa butter. Which would tie in with what you said about white chocolate
cocoa mass = 'the brown part' produced from pressing the liquour/solids i.e. cocoa powder
This has been discussed in some detail elsewhere on these forums. You could do a search and find a bunch of threads dealing with it.
The cacao percentage of a chocolate includes both non-fat cacao solids and cocoa butter. Technically, a 70% bar could be made up of any of the following:
So, I would probably say that the statement that there are no cacao solids in white chocolate is incorrect. I suppose you could have a 70% cacao white chocolate, but I'd imagine it would be pretty gross. :)
hi Ben thanks so much for the reply.
So even though the 5% cocoa butter is an added extra to original 70% bean mix it gets included into the overall cocoa solids %?
Yet in white chocolate its said there is no cocoa solids, but its made using cocoa butter. So how can cocoa butter be classed as part of the cocoa solids when added extra into dark chocolate?
Would that then mean that 'cocoa solids' actually refer to what is essentially 'cocoa powder' that makes up 1/2 the cocoa bean? If thats the case then a 70% dark chocolate should actually be classed as a 35% cocoa solids?
It's something that has been plaguing me, and now got me horribly confused
Sorry - one more thing that's relevant - how many/how often do you expect to do this testing? If it's once a day, i'd say go gravimetric. You'll need gravimetric to validate the calibration curves of the instruments anyway. If you need to run 5 samples every hour - than you'd need a small army of tech to prepare the samples, and an instrument's your way to go.
It sounds like there could be a crack in the epoxy somewhere. Once you finish this batch, clean the machine really well and then reseal with a food-safe epoxy. You may want or need to chip the old epoxy first. Good luck!
The first would be a 75% cacao chocolate. The second would be a 70%.
Lots of pros and cons here. A few highlights to consider:
NMR and NIR will be be expensive instruments to acquire ($50-90k?).
NMR can be heavily influenced by metals content - so your process becomes very important. IE if you have a ball/attritor mill, the media will abrade off small pieces of metal and will impact your results.
NIR is heavily matrix and temperature dependent - you'll need to have a robust calibration curve for accuracy. Actually that's true with NMR as well.
If you have the funds to spend, and the expertise to create and maintain a calibration curve - i prefer the NIR, as you can calibrate it to predict other things as well. I've never used Oxford instruments specifically, but that they indicate in their literature that you only need 2 calibration points would concern the hell out of me.
A 3rd option is gravimetric extraction. Grinding your sample up, extracting the lipids with a solved, evaporating the solvent, and measuring what's left behind. Far less expensive up front costs, but you are now dealing with a solvent, and the consistency of the tech doing the prep work is important.
Hi everyone,
Curious about how to calculate the %'s in bean to bar chocolate, if making a 70% bar that needs maybe 5% added cocoa butter would the recipe be:
70% cocoa beans (35%cocoa+35%butter)
25% sugar
5% butter
OR:
65% cocoa beans (32.5%cocoa+32.5%butter)
30% sugar
5% butter
I suppose my main question is whether by adding extra cocoa butter comes under the total cocoa solids/beans %, or an added extra like sugar?
So for the two example recipes i posted, would the first be a 70% chocolate, and the 2nd be a 65% chocolate? or are they both 70% chocolates?
Hope this makes sense, and someone can put my mind at rest.
Sure - put it into a calibrated NIR and push the start button.
I assume you mean an inexpensive, easily accessible way for the home user? No. Perhaps make friends with a local university and ask them to make it a class project to calibrate their equipment to your product, in exchange for some free product...
Hi Sebastian,
I understand that by NIR you mean Near Infrared Transmission Spectroscopy.
I need to set up a lab which will be able to do reasonably accurate (no more accurate than +/- 0.5%) measurements of cocoa butter content in cocoa mass.
We use blends of in house processed beans in our recipes and I need to adjust mixer contents to variation of cocoa butter in the beans to improve chocolate consistency. I have just started to look around for solutions and uncle Google shows this:
Would you have an opinion on which method would work better?
Peter
Sure - put it into a calibrated NIR and push the start button.
I assume you mean an inexpensive, easily accessible way for the home user? No. Perhaps make friends with a local university and ask them to make it a class project to calibrate their equipment to your product, in exchange for some free product...
I'm resurrecting this thread as I haven't found the answer elsewhere. I'm trying to develop my MacGyver skills... Can anyone offer a solution to the spectra 20 (the old red one) leaking from the center? there's a pool of chocolate under the machine (about 6 oz so far, 24 hrs in). This machine has to at least make enough chocolate to pay for a better machine. 
This is my first batch in this machine, so when it's finished I'll be able to empty it, clean it, and perhaps (hopefully) it just needs to have everything tightened....
Thank you!
It actually works pretty well - as long as the room and chocolate isn't too hot
I wonder if anyone knows of an easy way to measure cocoa butter content in cocoa liquor, or in chocolate
So I redid this test at a higher temp (250 - 3 hrs) and with the two organic sugars I tested there was no change. Even so, though the weight did not change, I noted that one of the two became very static while the other clumped a lot more - I can't help but wonder if the staticky one is drier. The one that appears more moist upon hearing caused my choco to seize in the grinder, so I'm looking for an alternative organic brand.
I was gifted two blocks of gianduja, a Callebut milk that was opened with a best by date was in March, the other a Valrhona dark with a packaged date of july 2014 and a best by date of July of last year. Should I toss them? The Callebut seems fine.
I have a hard time finding gianduja so this is a big deal. I usually make my own,
Thank you! I did this over the weekend but I don't think my oven was warm enough - will try again tonight.
Hi Brian,
Thanks for the heads up, i got shipping confirmation today and requested tracking details so hopefully i can gauge when its going to arrive and be ready to collect. I just hope it turns up to an airport nearby. Also got crate size and weight details in case i turned up with a van to small. Thanks again, huge help.
Buying a recommended cooler in this case may not be the best idea.
There is a lot of variation in how you use the refiner, in what ambient conditions and in what location. All of these will make a lot of difference to the choice of cooling system.
You may find that the cost of cooling system will be high in comparison to the cost of water used.
1. Your best option is to talk to a local refrigeration company and ask them for a quote, they will be in the best position to make all calculations.
2. If you use the 3 roll for a couple of hours a day and not all the time you may be able to get away with just water storage system without any active cooling (this depends a lot on your location and on maximum inlet water temperature for the refiner). Get a big rainwater tank, connect a pump capable of supplying correct water pressure for what the refiner requires and direct the over flow back to that tank. All depending on how you use the refiner, on how much water and at what temperature you need.
In any recirculation system you will need some sort of chemical water treatment to avoid scaling, corrosion and growth of nasty bacteria.
If you can give more information about what are your requirements and what are your ambient conditions I can calculate some numbers for you so you have somewhere to start.
It's relatively easy to do a moisture test - measure out some of your sugar, weigh it, bake it at a low temperature (250F) for say 2 hours, then re-weigh it - the different win weight is moisture loss. Note: you may need to play with your times/temps for the best accuracy.
I have tested some of the sugars mentioned here, and am running into too high a moisture content in the bulk bag though the smaller bag I bought for testing worked fine. I don't want to add a sugar drying step to my workflow but I wonder if others do this? And, or, is there a simple way I can test for moisture content myself?
This is useful information. Following 
Hi there folks,
Im hoping to see if anyone might be able to recommend me in the direction of a recirculating water cooler to attach to our three roll so that we don't have to waste water to cool it.
Kerry: do you have any problem with chocolate starting to melt when using that attachment? I've tried to use the shredding blades in my food processor, but they move too fast and the chocolate starts to melt. Same with an ice shredder.
How much have you done at once?
I do have great success shredding nicely with my little Bosch Compact stand mixer with the shredding attachment - amazingly strong for a little piece of equipment.
I do a 'pulverized' chocolate for a couple customers. Essentially, I just break chocolate blocks into smaller chunks and then put them in a food processor for a little bit. It does a pretty good job. One day, I really want to have one of the automatic shredders like Kerry mentions ( https://www.tcfsales.com/products/c123-chocolate-shavers-automatic/ )
I've also just bought a couple heavier-duty vegetable peelers/julienners to test for exactly this purpose. This one works incredibly well:
http://www.amazon.com/Precision-Kitchenware-Stainless-Julienne-Vegetable/dp/B00FF75XG4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_
With that, I was able to shred 5 lbs in 10 or 15 minutes. It works best if the block of chocolate is no thicker than the width of the blade.
I'm not sure how much I'll end up using it, though, as I need to do 20-50 lbs every so often and my hand starts to cramp up after 10 or so. :)
Dave - I'm in Canada - I can get guitar sheets from Signature Fine Foods or Qzina. In the US I guess Qzina would be one source.
Design and Realization in Montreal has an electric grater. I believe TCF sales in the US also sells - look under cutting.
Can't tell what the cost is on Alufoil - but I know that Chocalat-chocolat in Montreal carries coloured foil.
I currently have been ordering 6"x7" foil sheets from Alufoil however with our weak Canadian dollar as well as fees and duties to ship cross border I am trying to find a supplier in Canada to order from. Does anyone know of one up here. Everything I see online is about 3-5 times the price of alufoil so in that case it still makes sense to pay those border fees.
Knowing the strength (or the 'fold') of the flavor is helpful to guide usage levels. Most of what you're buying off the shelves is a single fold (single strength) - i might suggest a starting point of 0.1% on a weight basis and evaluate.
I've worked with some essential oils, however, that requires FAR less than that (as in 0.00000x%) - so little that it's hard to even measure it correctly. It's pretty unlikely that's what you're finding, but it's always good to be aware that it's out there.
The title pretty much says it all. I'm looking for some frames. I'm looking for the Maratello 5 plastic frame set but the full size one, not the mini. I'll take other frames too, 12x12x1/4" and 12x12x1/2" are the other sizes I want but I'm flexible.
I'm also looking for frames for my pate defruit.
I love this perfect combination. Mint chocolate is one of my favorite flavors, I've tried them on teas and cheesecakes. I'll try that product
Hello @honmeid,
Good for you! I'm glad you made it and found employment. I'm in the Ecole Chocolat program right now for making bean-to-bar chocolate, so I might look for a job at one of the bean-to-bar chocolate companies in the Seattle area after graduation.
I hope all goes well at Theo!
