Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Clay, if we don't make chocolate, i don't know what it is then! And, perhaps you should not have allowed me in your chocolate competition.
Steve
Forum Activity for @Sacred Steve
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Clay, if we don't make chocolate, i don't know what it is then! And, perhaps you should not have allowed me in your chocolate competition.
Steve
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
By the way, you don't have to start from cocoa liquor to make chocolate. We START from the whole bean.
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Steve:Have you run your interpretation past a lawyer who has experience arguing these kinds of cases with the FDA?All chocolate is, by definition, made from chocolate liquor. Chocolate liquor, by definition, is made from nibs. There is no provision for making chocolate from whole beans. Here are the references:Sec. 163.111 Chocolate liquor.(a)Description. (1) Chocolate liquor is the solid or semiplastic food prepared by finely grinding cacao nibs.Sec. 163.110 Cacao nibs.(a)Description. (1) Cacao nibs is the food prepared by removing the shell from cured, cleaned, dried, and cracked cacao beans.Sec. 163.123 Sweet chocolate.(a)Description. (1) Sweet chocolate is the solid or semiplastic food prepared by intimately mixing and grinding chocolate liquor ...^ included is the definition of sweet chocolate is bittersweet chocolateEven though you're grinding whole beans you are subject to the rules related to shell content if you want to call your product chocolate. Right now, because you're not making your product from nibs, legally you can't call it chocolate. That's the way the Standards of Identity work. They determine what ingredients can be included in a food (and in many cases HOW it is made) if you want to use a certain word or term to describe it. Because your products use a process that is not in the Standard of Identity, my interpretation is that your product does not adhere to the Standard and therefore can't be called chocolate.But - I am not a lawyer and YMMV.:: Clay
Bean to bar chocolate makers
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Like I said, we ARE on the CUTTING edge...please read my reply to Clay regarding the State of CA. We are not here to "break" the rules. Our goal is to marry EXCEPTIONAL flavor with EXCEPTIONAL nutrition, and a HUGE amount of the nutrition of the bean is in the Husk. Just like the skin of a sesame seed, skin of a cucumber or potato or orange, a lot of nutrtion is in the husk. For instance, the Cacao Bean is VERY high in iron, however, most of that IRON is in the husk. That is just one example. Our beans are harvested in a very proprietary fashion so that they are extremely clean. They are sold at retail as whole beans with skins for human consumption they are so clean. They actually look like almonds and are mistaken for such CONSTANTLY at our demos and tastings. I am happy to email you a picture separately and privately if you wish.
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/SCRIPTs/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=163.111 (a)Description. (1) Chocolate liquor is the solid or semiplastic food prepared by finely grinding cacao nibs.So in order to make cocoa liquor you must grind nibs as defined by the Standards of Identity. You must use cocoa liquor to make chocolate......You can word it however you like, but you are not following the FDA guidelines to be able to call it chocolate. My problem with this is that there is a reason we have these guidelines. So you skip the one tiny detail. Big deal right? I find it is a huge deal, if it becomes standard to ignore federally mandated regulations that are set up to preserve the quality of American chocolate. What exactly makes your company exempt from following the same rules everyone else must follow?Andrea
Bean to bar chocolate makers
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FYI. We are under close supervision by the STATE OF CALIFORNIA Health Department on this. They are WELL aware of what we are doing, which is on the cutting edge of chocolate making in my opinion. We have supplied them with CofA's of our cacao beans showing all microbial analysis and water activity which is well below acceptable limits. To date, nobody has fallen ill from our chocolate. We have been in biz since the summer of 2006 with a 100% perfect record. We are also listed with the USDA and FDA.
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
This is a common misunderstanding that we get accused of all the time, and I always have to point out the issue. The FDA is DEFINING a cacao nib, not chocolate. Of course, the VERY DEFINITION of a NIB, hinges on the fact that the HUSK is removed. Otherwise, it is still technically a bean if all the HUSK material is still included. What the FDA has done here is basically given a guideline to what a cocoa processor is allowed to leave in the finished NIB batch as far as leftover husks is concerned. As any bean to bar maker knows, it is VERY difficult to get 100% of the husk removed from the bean in any sort of automated process. The FDA is allowing some leeway here... (chocolate is a much different definition from cacao nib.)Sec. 163.110 Cacao nibs.(a)Description. (1) Cacao nibs is the food prepared by removing the shell from cured, cleaned, dried, and cracked cacao beans. The cacao shell content is not more than 1.75 percent by weight, calculated on an alkali free basis, as determined by the method prescribed in 163.5(a).
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Oh ok. If that is the case, Sacred Chocolate is a bean to bar maker.
Hearts,Sacred Steve
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Andrea:You are technically correct on this one. It makes no nevermind that they are making raw chocolate - they still need to be in compliance with the FDA standards of identity in order to call their product chocolate.However, the company is so small that the FDA is not likely to take any action unless it becomes a food safety issue, i.e., someone files a complaint because they believe they got food poisoning from eating it.:: Clay
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/SCRIPTs/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=163.110 "The cacao shell content is not more than 1.75 percent by weight"As far as I can tell, leaving the husk in means you cannot call it chocolate.Can you please tell me if I am wrong since you are a Raw company? I assume you have to follow FDA guidelines in your labeling?Andrea
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Steve:If you take a look at my reply to Gretchen, you'll see that whether or not a specific step (e.g., roasting) is done is not at issue here.The point is that you start with beans and end with finished chocolate and that all of the steps that are undertaken to get from Beans to Bars, for each and every batch, are performed or personally (as in in-person) supervised by the company making the claim.:: Clay
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Gretchen:I think that there is a consensus that in order to accurately use the term bean-to-bar, the company must start with beans and end with finished chocolate for wholesale/industrial AND/OR retail sale. Wrapped and boxed bars or liquor (liquid or no), the final form is not the significant issue.The question is - do they have to OWN ALL of the equipment or can they contract out some of the operations as long as the work is being done under close supervision?In the end, I really don't care about the ownership of facilities issue as long as they are open and upfront about what they are doing - AND a company employee actually supervise each and every roast, grind, molding, etc. The moment they're no longer personally supervising each and every step of every batch they're contracting with someone else to do then, IMO, they are no longer bean-to-bar.I am more interested in protecting the use of the terms, "origin" and "single-origin." From my perspective it's not a true single-origin bar if there is any added cocoa butter that is not from the same origin. So, the practice of using deodorized cocoa butter of unspecified origin in a recipe means that the chocolate is no longer single-origin, it's "origin chocolate with added cocoa butter of uncertain provenance."Again, I am cool with this as long as people are up-front about it and specify the percentage of added cocoa butter that is not from the origin of the cocoa mass.:: Clay
updated by @Clay Gordon: 09/07/15 10:40:05
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Aequare does not make chocolate from beans, however they are one of the few chocolatiers exporting into the US who makes confections using ingredients sourced almost exclusively in the country of origin.Aequare does work (in an advisory capacity and as a customer) with an independent grower in Ecuador who converts a portion of his crop into chocolate at a factory in Guayaquil. This grower also buys from other local growers and converts a portion of what be buys into chocolate, too.ChocolateLife member Jeffrey Stern is the founder of the company. He was born here in the US and spent years overseas working for USAID before catching the confectionery bug. His wife is Ecuadorian so they moved there several years ago with their young family. Aequare has a workshop and retail operation (Gianduja Chocolatier) in Quito and their product is available on-line and in some stores here in the US.:: Clay
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Hi Gretchen,Not sure if there was any official decision made?We are a bean to bar maker (we even include the husks/skins of the bean) in our chocolate since our beans are so clean they look like almonds. However, we don't roast or cook the beans in any way so that we can retain the very high anti-oxidant value that is naturally occuring in the raw bean. So, we may be an exception to any official rule.Hearts,Sacred Steve
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Hi,I wondered whether there was decision made in a later discussion thread that confirmed that bean-to-bar was only accurate if they roasted their own beans?
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Is Aequare, http://www.aequarechocolates.com/ , a bean to bar chocolate maker? They seem to be advertisers on TCL.
updated by @ChocoFiles: 01/24/15 14:34:43
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Cadbury is? Definitely did not know that. I love Cadbury though, and their commercial is hilarious! http://adwido.com/view_content?vkey=9be0f455ddd4b4cb77ad70596090d38e
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Must be a cost issue. Italy is a relatively expensive place to do business. Poland doesn't have much of a history with fine chocolate, but everyone is using the same equipment and people can be trained ...
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Clay, I've heard Green and Black's now is made in Poland. It seemes ICAM no longer is a partner.
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Masur,Thanks for catching that. I made the changes in the text part of the document. They weren't listed in the table, which is the main reference I use.BTW, Mars is listed as a b2b company. I have no idea where I got that info, but it seems hard to believe. Is it right? Is Mars a b2b company?
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
I can confirm that Green and Black's does not do their own manufacturing - it's done in Italy. Dolfin uses couverture from Belcolade.
Bean to bar chocolate makers
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Nice effort Olorin but Green & Blacks is not a bean to bar company, nor is Cafe-Tasse and Dolfin according to my sources.
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
I've attached a Word document that has a list of Bean to bar makers, and a list of Fondeurs. It's compiled from information I've collected from TCL, from friends, and from the internet. Someone may want to add these companies to the TCL database.Please let me know if there are is any mistaken information in it, so that I can correct it.
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Thanks for the update.About the printout. At the moment, no. But I am looking into a way to do that.
Bean to bar chocolate makers
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What a Great resource! Thanks!A correction: DeVries is in Denver CO, not Boulder.Is there any way to print this data to get a hard copy?
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Masur,Thanks for taking the time to research a little and answer my question.
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
I have re-posted the online Chocolate Makers database . It is an Add-Only database, which means you can only add an entry, not edit them. This is an international directory, not just US companies.If you have any questions or comments about an entry, please submit them in this forum so that they can be make public. I will make the changes as they are brought to my attention.
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Being a micro-batch bean to bar company ourselves, i can vouch for the difficulty in doing HIGH QUALITY bean to bar in the USA without cutting corners while bringing to market a retail price point below $4 which is most of these companies. I don't blame them for not being bean to bar. It seems most grinding is being done offshore these days except for some of the hugely automated stateside comanies with massive infrastructure investment.
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Cote dOr is owned by Kraft Food and not a bean to bar company. I've never seen bars from Equal Exchange and Rapunzel. A Check at their websites convinced me they are not bean to bar companies.
Bean to bar chocolate makers
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Does anyone know if any of these companies are bean to bar?-Cote dOr-Equal Exchange-Rapunzel
Bean to bar chocolate makers
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The data are still available but I haven't found a good way to present it and make it both usable and useful. Still working on it.
updated by @Clay Gordon: 09/07/15 14:34:39
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Clay,You said on 4/28/08-- "I have created a simple database that will enable us to track these companies more easily. It is located here.PLEASE DO NOT ADD ANY MORE COMPANY NAMES HERE. Please add them in the database. If you have added a company to this list, please consider making an entry in the database for it."Is this database still on TCL? The link you provided doesn't go anywhere, and I can't find anything else to get to the database.
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Hi Samantha, We are looking into the possibility of making our own winnower. Do you have any tips? What sort of volume can your machine do? How much did you spend on it if you don't mind me asking? Are you happy with it?Any help would be much appreciated since there just doesn't seem to be many resources out there on winnowing machine design or even companys that make them for sale.Steve
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Just for the record, Sacred Chocolate is both a WHOLE BEAN WITH SKIN to Bar company as well as a nib to Bar company. We include the skins of the beans in the chocolate we make for nutritional reasons. The vast majority of the naturally occuring iron in cacao amongst other phyto-nutrients show up in the skins. (just like virtually all the calcium in sesame seeds show up in the skins or husks of the seed). Sometimes we mix processes as well as do single types of processes to achieve both unique flavor an nutritional profiles. We do very "out of the box" chocolate making. We only use raw nibs and raw beans for nutritional reasons. We only stone grind.Steve
Bean to bar chocolate makers
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Are these companies b2b?Cote dOrEqual ExchangeRapunzel
updated by @ChocoFiles: 01/24/15 05:18:20
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Clay,You said on 4/28/08-- "I have created a simple database that will enable us to track these companies more easily. It is located here.PLEASE DO NOT ADD ANY MORE COMPANY NAMES HERE. Please add them in the database. If you have added a company to this list, please consider making an entry in the database for it."Is this database still on TCL? The link you provided doesn't go anywhere, and I can't find anything else to get to the database.
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
i heard that they have duplicated all the processes in Illinois, including a new Barth Tornado roaster (very cool!) and a much bigger melangeur made in Russia etci bought some of their equipment from the Berkeley location - one of the roasters and the bean cleaner. if i ever find the appropriate location, it will be set up again along with an old winnower from a Lindt factory in Northern Italy and some other vintage goodies. Maybe that will move me up from microbatch to small batch:)Celebrating 6 years of microbatch chocolate making ....
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Let me add that I also don't have proof that they are still bean-to-bar. i don't know one way or the other. I was just pointing out that despite the Berkeley facility being closed, Scharffen Berger is still being made, just in Illinois.
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
I think the jury is out until we have more information. For at least the last couple of years, Hershey has outsourced all liquor production in their Hershey, PA facility.Will they get (or are they already/still) back in the bean roasting and grinding business?Does anyone know for sure one way or another?
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Oh, ok! I suppose it is really Hershey who is doing the bean to bar then...?
Bean to bar chocolate makers
Posted in: Tasting Notes
Scharffen Berger's production has been relocated to Illinois by Hershey, who has owned them since 2005 iirc. That doesn't mean that they are no longer bean-to-bar.