Hi! You may get in contact with the guys from Dandelion. They seem to be quite open with their processes. They must have it figured out I think. Also, if you have a chance to visit the Northwest Chocolate Festival UnConference you can personally get input from many chocolate makers, small, medium and large.
Regards,
José
I have been molding some chocolates using Callebaut Belgian Semi-Sweet Callets 811NV-595 and Belgian Intense Bittersweet Callets 60-40-38NV. I would now like to try a Guittard chocolate similar to what See's uses. They apparently use a custom mixture. Aside from Guittard's vintage chocolate, I don't see a wide variety of Guittard online. I bought the Callebaut from Gygi and they have Guittard French Vanilla Dark Chocolate Block. I will try this, but would prefer to find a better starting point. I am focusing on chocolate in the $8-$13 per kg range (in ~50 kg quantity).
Hello,
I'm using the 3/8'' round belt to my Premier Grinder and Santha 11.
I did not understand if I need the V or the round belt or it doesn't really matter? The round belt was relatively reliable and bare hundreds of hours of operation. As I recall the poly is more rounded than V shape.
Thank's!
Was your colored cocoa butter properly tempered when you added it to the mold? That could cause it to stay in the mold and not adhere to the chcolate even if the chcolate was properly tempered.
As for cleaning them, I'd run hot water from the tap and fill the molds allowing them to sit. You can probably get most of the cocoa butter out this way or by using the sprayer. You will probably need to clean them with cotton balls really well to remove any stubborn bits.
tHello!, thank you for your post about #Cinnapepper.
It is a very new taste created by #Spice Valley in Vietnam. As a specialist in Pepper & Spices ingredients. If you have any ideas of recipes with chocolat can be a good match with this special #Cinnapepper please share with us!
NB: the taste of Cinnapepper is a white pepper got infusion of Cinnamon by a process developed by Spice Valley Distribution.
Hello this is Leona a newbie to this forum. I believe in the quote by Jo Brand "Anything is good if it's made of chocolate"
Exactly my question. I have also never heard any chocolate recipe having CinnaPepper in it.
Someone has some extra that I can buy (2-3 meters). Shipping to England.
Thank's
Looks perhaps like your chocolate was over crystallized and relatively cool when you put it behind the colours. Having it as warm as possible will aid it in it's bonding with the coloured layer and when it is over crystallized it doesn't contract as well and pull away from the mold.
I'd clean the molds with very hot water and a soft cotton mop like a vase brush.
any math geeks here that could discuss how they organised production planning for a growing craft chocolate maker?
*I've researched a few MRP and ERP systems (from basic to industrial-size complexity) and want to move beyond manual excel sheet work for determining production goals.*
Takk fyrir!
Digital scale for weighing boxes of chocolate or any type of candy. Asking $75
Used ACMC Table Top Tempering Unit. $600 (+shipping)
Works great, all original parts.
Includes extra 5 -Quart stainless steel bowl
If interested contact jenniferjoanneyoung@gmail.com
Features
For more info:
Sounds like you're doing a lot of the right things. If you've not already done so, i'd encourage you to undertake a validation program to assess the kill rate of salmonella surrogate organisms (you don't *actually* want to do the test with real salmonella...), as the energies required to kill salmonella to a 5 log kill can look different than those required to reduce yeast by 5 log. Don't forget your environmental swabs (things like floor drains, for example, become excellent harborage points for salmonella that can be tracked through the facility on one's shoes)..
True sterilization is very difficult - usually due to environmental factors. Cobalt-60 irradiation is effective, as are some gasses. Both those options come with serious considerations.
I may be interested in 2-4 tons. Please email me privately at Brad@Choklat.com
Thanks.
I'd strongly disagree with that. TPC, yeast, and mold are more indicators of storage/transport conditions (ie did the materials get wet at some point) and general quality, but have very little to do with organisms of public health concern. Coliforms and salmonella sp. are *the* reasons for kill steps in chocolate making processes, and as such are the organisms of concern to be targeted for enumeration. It is those that one needs to concern themselves with.
Steam sterilization of nibs in commercial roasting operations is not an uncommon thing to do.
I will agree with you on the fact that total plate counts, yeast and mold are not indicators of coliforms or salmonella presence.
Guusb above asked about sterilising nibs.
I have been looking at options for sterilisation on the bean processing line we are building. Suppliers strongly suggest installing a sterilisation step in the process as this is very common practice in industrial applications, especially where the the product is sold on to other industrial customers and requires very low TPC results.
In whole bean roasting this is achieved by injection of steam into steriliser before roaster and requires quite large steam generation capacity.
I have looked at results of our micro testing over last few years, and TPC on beans range from 3x10^2 to 4-5x10^6, in cocoa liquor we have never gone over 8x10^3 and most results are below 1x10^3. Australian standards for finished chocolate require less than 1x10^4 and we have never had finished product at more than half of this level.
We are not selling any product to other industrial customers and looking at low probability of large salmonella contamination on beans and even lower chance of this contamination surviving roasting and grinding process we have decided not to install any additional sterilisation steps in our process.
I have left a space for this just in case things change.
Compatible Technology is a non-profit organization I have wanted to support since I first learned of them and I think their grinder could be a real good option for many startup makers. It's inexpensive - closer to a Corona mill than an Old Tyme peanut butter grinder even when motorized - and there is an option to buy one and donate one.
If you try this grinder ... please let us know how it works out!
I will add on tangent.
In the beer brewing world, roasted cocoa nibs are used as an flavour additive in several different beer recipes. Roasted to develop flavour and than soaked in neutral alcohol to sanitise. Introduction of live microorganisms present on nib into brewing systems brings very unpleasant results.
Peter - Good tip as a way to perform the kill step after winnowing.
David:
Where are you located? (Please update your profile to include your two-letter country code to make it easier for us to find out - helpful when answering questions.)
Tonka beans (and extracts) are not allowed as a food ingredient in the US since 1954 because they contain coumarin.
There are many other common foods that contain coumarin whose consumption is not prohibited, but if you were to list tonka beans as an ingredient you would be breaking the law.
That said, they appear to be easily available on Amazon.
I will add on tangent.
In the beer brewing world, roasted cocoa nibs are used as an flavour additive in several different beer recipes. Roasted to develop flavour and than soaked in neutral alcohol to sanitise. Introduction of live microorganisms present on nib into brewing systems brings very unpleasant results.
I found this thread interesting. We have been making approx 80lbs of chocolate a week in two santhas. We always pre grind the nibs using a champion juicer but we are looking at the next step. I would agree that it comes out as a paste and not a liqour and, yes it does harden over time. As obviously it would. i know other bean to bar makers using peanut butter grinders and would like to hear more feedback on this. Price wise 2.5k is a very little investment, but am open to other options to scale up and automate more. I tried to do a search to find out what other small bean to bar makers are using.
Clay:
Thanks for all the info. That pressure-maceration trick sounds awesome, too, so I'll definitely try that sometime! Seems like main thing I'll have to contend with then in the scenarios I've described is heavy metal and other inorganic compounds in brewing. Fortunately, this brewery has a chemical engineer of-sorts on staff, so he'll probably be excited about testing for that. Cheers!
I didn't know if this question should go here or in the classified forum, but here it goes.
Does anybody know of a good source to buy tonka beans?
Thank you in advance!
Marck -
How would one get in touch with the chefs you mention ... and how would a chocolate maker looking to use CinnaPepper get hold of samples to create recipes?
Chris -
"[...] the temperatures involved in the distillation process, coupled with the alcohol of the finished product, are likely to kill any bacterial pathogens that might be present on the shell."
Does this still hold true now that I've clarified that the product would be a rum infused with cacao and not a spirit distilled from cacao?
Temperature is only a consideration if you re-distill after maceration. Alcohol levels still apply.
Also, does this also hold true for the brewing of beer? Figured it's worth asking since the alcohol content is significantly lower.
It depends on how you get the cocoa flavor into the beer.
You could do it by making the cocoa nib a part of the mash bill (whole beans would probably not work). In which case, the boil would kill everything. However, there are issues with respect to fat content that need to be taken into consideration if you are going to boil nib. This is something that a competent brewer should know about.
If you are getting the flavor into the beer using the technique known as dry-hopping (again, whole beans will not work here), then you are relying totally on the alcohol to take care of any microbial contamination unless there is a post-winnow sterilization step. I don't know the efficacy of a 3.2% level of alcohol relative to an 8%+ level of alcohol. You'd have to test.
Chris -
Thanks for the clarifications. There is history of infusing an already-produced rum or whiskey using cocoa. This is one of the things Cacao Prieto intended on doing and they purchased a huge macerating tanks exclusively for this purpose. They were planning to distill the resultant liquid, but my guess is that a simple filtration process prior to bottling is all that is necessary unless you suspect microbial contamination from the cocoa.
My experience is that it's more efficient to use nib (over whole beans with shell) because of the increased surface area available. Nib will absorb the alcohol much, much, faster than a whole bean can - and that's reason enough to go with nib. Another reason is that it's going to be easier to remove excess liquid from a mass of nib than it will be from a mass of whole cocoa bean and shell. (You do need to find something to do with the paste from the nib.)
If you want to try something in the kitchen, get an ISI cream whipper and NO2 cartridges. Warm the container with hot water and then empty - no need to dry. Measure in some alcohol (sweeter - relatively speaking - rums and bourbons give better results than less-sweet spirits such as vodkas and many whiskies in my experience; gins are mostly a no-go), and measure in some refreshed nib (warmed up in an oven). Pressurize the container and shake. Wait 3-5 minutes before carefully releasing the pressure. You will have cocoa-flavored spirits -- and you can control the level of cocoa flavor by experimenting with the ratio of nib/alcohol, type of alcohol, other ingredients, and time spent macerating under pressure.
Also, I would like clarification on this statement, please:
"[...] the temperatures involved in the distillation process, coupled with the alcohol of the finished product, are likely to kill any bacterial pathogens that might be present on the shell."
Does this still hold true now that I've clarified that the product would be a rum infused with cacao and not a spirit distilled from cacao?
Also, does this also hold true for the brewing of beer? Figured it's worth asking since the alcohol content is significantly lower.
Thanks again!
Clay:
Thanks for the response! The information regarding bacteria and heavy metal analysis were very helpful. Most of your response was based on a couple misunderstandings, though, which I'll clarify just so others don't take the conversation on a deeper tangent.
First, I made a mistake by omitting an important clause. My statement should have read, "[...] used raw, whole bean cacao [...] to make a whiskey infused/flavored with cacao." The whiskey this NY company made was a traditional whiskey flavored and/or aged with raw cacao, and that is what these rum distillers wanted to do with their rum (distilled from molasses). Sorry for the confusion there.
Second, I am not personally making any alcohol products; I've merely been approached as a chocolate maker and chocolatier to provide materials or products and to collaborate on the creation of rum and beer flavored with cacao by two separate, fully licensed companies.
Finally, I would never partner with the Brothers for any reason; the current rum distiller is a former employee of the whiskey distillery that partnered with the Masts on the cacao infused/aged whiskey.
So, I have no need to discuss those three items further, but I'd love to hear more from anyone about the concerns with heavy metals, inorganic compounds, and/or mycotoxins.
Thanks!
Chris:
First off, if you make a distillate from cocoa beans it cannot legally be called either rum or whiskey. There are very strict rules laid down by the TTB (The Alcohol and Tobacco Trade and Tax Bureau) with respect to recipes and labeling. For example, to be a rum, the product must be made from sugar or a sugar by-product (e.g., molasses).
I know this because of a) the work I did to help Cacao Prieto (now Widow Jane) gets its federal and NY State permits; and b) the work I did with New World Spirits to get a new TTB classification (the first in about 150 years) for Solbeso, which is distilled from the juice of fresh cacao pulp.
Whatever you make from distilling cocoa you cannot call it - or label it or hint at in advertising or marketing - either rum or whiskey because it does not meet the definition of those sprits (.PDF) . There is an "other" category called DSS (Distilled Spirits Specialty) and this is where a product made from cocoa beans (whole or nib, roasted or unroasted) would fit. From experience, if you don't have A LOT of money (hundreds of thousands per market ) and time, it's really hard to launch a new spirit that does not fit into a mainstream category.
If you plan to get involved in this project (or any distilling project) I suggest that you do your homework and learn about distilling processes and the licensing process with the TTB. The first place I would start is the TTB web site because there are a lot of great resources there.
From my personal, first-hand, experience, the temperatures involved in the distillation process, coupled with the alcohol of the finished product, are likely to kill any bacterial pathogens that might be present on the shell. And, I don't think it is going to be too difficult to overwhelm whatever viable yeasts remain on the shell, even if you do end up using whole beans. There's more I could say about process and recipes, but I have an NDA with the producers of Solbeso.
My primary concern with using whole beans - as you rightfully point out - would be with heavy metal and inorganic chemicals that might be present in the shell - as these might make it through to end of the distillation process. Testing must be done to ensure that they are not present, and you would be advised to do this both before and after distillation, starting with test batches well before you start even thinking about the process with the TTB as you are going to have to provide certificates of analysis in order to get permits to sell.
Starting from nib obviates many potential difficulties, but does not obviate the need for proper (and ongoing) testing. There are simple batch sterilization methods that can be applied to nib that don't involve heat/steam if that's a concern.
As for the Mast Bros. From a strict marketing perspective it makes sense to try to associate with their famous brand. However, from what I have heard of their history of partnering there is a risk that they may try to take credit for the idea, should it benefit their brand. I would be very careful when approaching them and make sure you have a very good IP lawyer. From a raw materials perspective there is nothing special about the cocoa they can provide. There are any number of alternative suppliers who can provide the raw inputs you are looking for (and I would actively argue against whole beans) on a large scale, at much more attractive prices.
There are other products that can be made from alcohol and cocoa, with different starting points. There may be areas I can help with that would not violate my confidentiality agreements with NWS/Solbeso - and I am happy to help (consult) where I can.
At the risk of beating a dead horse, I'd like to introduce the tangent of alcoholic brewing and distillation, as I've recently had two interactions wherein a craftsman has suggested we use raw cacao to create a beverage.
First, a rum distiller had previously, when working with a whiskey distillery in NY, used raw, whole bean cacao from (brace yourself, Clay) the Brothers of Mast to make a whiskey. They were interested in doing the same now with their rum, and based on what I'd read on this thread and elsewhere, told them it wasn't a good idea to use raw cacao or shell material - and also to forget the name of those other chocolate fakers forever. 
Then, a local brewer asked me, "SO, when are we gonna do a wild cacao (meaning, raw) fermentation?" Now, this is why I'm even bothering to ask for your opinion specifically, Sebastian - back in Seattle, he claims to have done such a fermentation not on a whim, but in conjunction with what I'll call "a very large, industrial, yet socially- and environmentally-responsible chocolate manufacturer that conducts and sponsors a lot of scientific research" - as I have no reason to give them a bad name, if this story does that. The conversation was cut short, so I didn't get too much info on the process, as he was kind of recalling multiple instances and methods of brewing experimentation and the laboratory of this chocolate factory (e.g., centrifugally separated cacao juice? really?). However, the main idea he was discussing was to throw the beans in whole and raw, asserting that, "... it's all yeast, right?" To which I shuddered and told him I'd look into it. Anyway, I'd like to know exactly what's what, lest his superior knowledge of brewing negates my sophomoric understanding of the risks.
Now, I'm assuming that alcohol, being a mycotoxin itself, would only amplify the possibilities of toxicity (in a bad way, not a "cool, drunker" way - LOL), no? Or would the mycotoxin battles each other for survival, yielding a comparable intoxication to alcohol alone? I would also assume the possibility of heavy metal contamination would be raised, no? Then there's the miscellaneous junk on the shell - dusts, dirt, etc - though perhaps that could be washed off to some degree (at least to the same degree as hops and malts?) without eliminating the natural yeasts?
Anyway, the big question here: is there any part of the distilling or the brewing process that might negate, if not control, the critical points previously discussed? Again, since I'd like to work with this guy in the future (preferably with roasted nibs or chocolate, though), I don't want to make assumptions or miss something crucial so as to negate the argument against shell/raw cacao use as a whole.
Thanks!
SpiceValley recently introduced CinnaPepper – a combination of White pepper seed with a process of maceration with Cinnamon. Spice Valley is looking for chocolate makers to create some recipes. Allready have collaboraton with 5star Chefs , Do not hesitate to contact them.
Hi, what was the price for the savage side by side melters?
jeremy@decorchocolates.com
thanks
Lot of good questions in there that can't be answered briefly. Short version is you need to be most concerned with achieving an effective 4-5log kill on Salmonella - the danger lies in ingesting viable organisms that can then multiply inside you. All treatments you mention (steam, nib, bean roasting) can be validated to safely achieve the necessary level of kill, although they all work slightly different from one another, and the settings you use to get a 5log kill on one method will likely require you to modify them for another. Post roast-contamination should always be part of your flow design - you don't want to effectively roast the beans only to re-contaminate them when you remove them from the roaster (it happens). Steam is a MUCH more effective way of killing micro-organisms than straight dry heat, as the energy associated with heating water is greater than the energy associated with heating air to the exact same temperature. It is that energy, then, that results in the death of your micro-organisms.
Thanks you, Peter3 and Sebastian! You both have a good points. It is always a good idear to do addional lab tests. I'll devinitely look in to that.
Sebastian, am I right in thinking that the roasting proces will kill coli and salmonella, but seen as they are both have endotoxins, a death large enough colony is still a hazard? With this in mind, is bean roasting not more hygienic than nib roasting, so live bacteria can migrate from shell to nib? (Can nibs be contaminated when the shell of the bean is intact?) What is the addion of steam sterilization? Is steam sterilization only necessary when the bean-breaking step is done with unroasted beans?
I'd strongly disagree with that. TPC, yeast, and mold are more indicators of storage/transport conditions (ie did the materials get wet at some point) and general quality, but have very little to do with organisms of public health concern. Coliforms and salmonella sp. are *the* reasons for kill steps in chocolate making processes, and as such are the organisms of concern to be targeted for enumeration. It is those that one needs to concern themselves with.
Steam sterilization of nibs in commercial roasting operations is not an uncommon thing to do.
Use nibs from your current process to make cocoa mass.
Find a local micro lab (there are plenty of them) and get the cocoa mass tested for total plate count, yeasts and moulds.
While you are waiting for results find out what is your local micro standard for total plate counts in chocolate products.
Get the results from the lab, compare to standard and you will know if you need to change anything.
If in doubt come back here with results.
Whole thing will cost you less than 100 Euro.
Most probably you will find that you don't need to do anything.
I am interested. Please send pricing details.
Hi - how much are you asking for these machines?
Thanks, Jim Greenberg
Union Confectionery Machinery
For Sale is a Perfect Equipments Inc. Wheel Tempering Unit.
The Unit is in good Condition.
See Pictures
No enrobing Conveyor with Unit.
8000 CAD
Hey Guys,
i have a Savage Bros. Side by Side Melting and Tempering System for Sale.
One Tank is new and never used and the other one is like new.
Size: 450 lbs Melting and 450 lbs Tempering Tank
Voltage is 230V, 3Ph, 60Hz 18Amp
Melting Tank Model#: 0971-40 S/N: 266
Tempering Tank Model#: 0970-60 S/N: 265
Date of Manufacture: September 2004
Hello everyone,
A question concerning hygiene here for a small bean-to-bar chocolate production in Europe.
To maintain a good flavor I roast whole cocoa beans. I roast in an oven. Ofcourse after the bean roasting comes the breaking and winnowing. I wonder if its good the sterilise the nibs (with steam) after winnowing en before grinding them. The most hygienic way would be break-winnowing-steam-roast. I have tried to oven roast nibs but it is difficult not to burn the nibs.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
a colleague of mine uses such software. I asked him for some info - it is called EasyERP and it is a suite of applications including inventory management system, order processing, client database, accounting.
Complete waste of money.
Why?
Because as small business owners we ALL have oodles and oodles of spare time to stand around and feed tiny amounts of nibs into a machine three times, to grind it into a gritty paste that can't be used for anything other than making micro batch chocolate, which of course is what the micro batch refiners are designed to do - GRIND nibs into chocolate!
There are other more useful things to spend $7500 on.
Brad.
