Nice, thanks Clay, was hoping you'd have some input. Seems like my options start at $618 (tcfsales.com) for the 6kg MdA and go up to around a grand for the Bakon that's twice that size. Usually I'm into DIY, but will probably save that for when I'm more familiar with these things 
Both are very simple machines when you get right down to it. The major difference in price is that the outer shell of the Mol d'Arts are made from plastic and the Bakons are all stainless steel. There have been some reports that the thermostats of the Mol d'Arts are not as robust (or accurate) as they could be.
So, you are getting when you pay for when you get a Bakon. Another source for similar machines that could be slightly cheaper is Desin et Realization (DR.ca).
I know people who use standard buffet warmers and regular hotel pans (make sure to get one that does not require water). These have the advantage of being very cheap but the temperature controls are not all that precise. If you can get a two-input PID controller you can put one probe on the heating element to keep it from getting too hot and the other in the chocolate to control the temperature.
I'm looking at buying my first melter, simply to melt and not temper, likely the Bakon 123 Mini or Mol d'Art 6kg, and I'm curious if anyone has had experience with both. Pros & cons...
Also, if you've got something to sell, feel free to message me.
Thank you!!
Necessary? No. Beneficial? Yes. The purpose of the cap is to prevent the filling from either leaking out and fouling your tempered chocolate, or to slow down the rate of migration of the (normally) softer/incompatible fat with that of the fat in the chocolate. Skip the capping, and you increase your risk of issues maintaining your temper or product quality (bloom, softening) on the finished product later.
Hi there,
I'm going to make some truffles for a special project and thought I would try out some truffle shells. I plan on filling themand then sending them through our enrober. I am wondering if it is necessary to cap them prior to enrobing? Thanks for your input!
Hi Sebastian,
Well, a couple weeks ago I gave up on my neighbor and combed the web for two days straight, looking for a better source of cacao in Honduras. Honduras does not have much of an online representation. Finally, I found a couple good sources of cacao and immediately ordered a 100 lbs sack from one source. The name of the farm is Finca Patricia, which also sells cacao to the Askinoosie chocolate factory. I am buying the same beans as Askinoosie uses. Askinoosie sells 3 ounce Honduran bars for $8.50 (~$45/lb.). Now, if anyone reading this, try not to go ballistic. I can buy the beans here for $1.15/lb. I dissected a sampling of the beans and they were all perfectly fermented, at least compared to the online guides.
I did get the beans properly roasted yesterday, but got impatient over the weekend and roasted some in the oven. Even oven roasted, what this cacao made was far superior to the beans I was buying before. Now I can sell a bar without any shame. :-)
So now I am happily buying new equipment and looking to hire some part time salesmen.
those sound good also,hope you come to NYC one day
Look at the ecole school website for they have chocolate making classes which teach b2b making now
I don't want to make bars but to keep on tasting and discovering new bars
If you also look on Patric chocolate site he does consulting in this area
If I ever churn out something I would eat in a bar, I would not be opposed to it. Until then, I'm too ashamed. I make confections with it right now, and it's good enough for that, but not a bar.
how about in the fall when the weather is cooler
If only I could. By the time they got to you, they would have melted and solidified several times...without a proper temper. I am in Honduras.
I am on the other end of chocolate the consumer end but if you ever wish to send test bars this way i would be interested in trying with my chocolate colleague
OK, unroasted cacao was cut and inspected. I would say 70% of them are purely purple, another 15% have at least a purple hue. The rest are brown and seem OK. So, it seems the initial theory, that the beans are under-fermented, was spot on. I would send a photo, but I don't have a camera capable of taking a quality photo.
These beans seem to be the bulk, I would say "Folgers" quality, in a coffee comparison. What I mean by that is, here in Honduras, you have specialty growers who cultivate export quality coffee, but they are the exception. The rest grow as many beans as they can, dry them and sell them in bulk to buyers. The buyers lump them all together and sell them all together to the highest bidder. From the taste of it, I would say Folgers is one of those bidders.
That appears to be what I'm buying in the way of cacao. The beans might have had potential at one time or another, but the fermenting was cut short.
So now I am waiting for my neighbor to finish his harvest, ferment and dry. The harvest started this week. He said that he ferments four days, but I had told him that a friend recommended six days. We will see what he produces. I am going to take the purple beans to him and show him what I don't want to buy.
no, you want to cut your unroasted ones. what your description tells me is that it's a mixture of what is likely many 'lots' of beans from various sources, or perhaps made over various times with multiple qualities blended into it. photos of course are helpful too.
Just a little update on this. I do not have any unroasted beans at the house, so I asked someone to buy a pound from the market. Meanwhile I cut open about 20 roasted beans. The colors vary. None are very dark, most are dark gray, some are brown, some are yellow and brown. I know I need pre-roasted beans, but I think I'm seeing a problem already.
yup, take a photo of them to post if you're able to, pictures are always helpful
Thanks, I was reading the cocoa quality chart that Gap posted the link to. I will do the bean splitting. It looks very useful. I don't remember a lot of off colored beans after the chopping, but I will take the 100 bean challenge when I receive them. I assume this should be done before roasting, or does it matter?
Judging by the chart and my short memory, I would say if there is any problem, it's that the beans are over-fermented, or dried too slowly, possibly even moldy, but I can't wait to do the count.
Honduran beans can be very good - but there's more to just a 4 or 6 day fermentation - the quantity of beans in the fermentation impacts the output, if the fermentation is done in a box/sack/heap, if the fermentation is drained or not, if/how frequently the heap is turned (aerated), etc. By manipulating one or more of those variables, you can get very different flavors from the exact same beans.
I'd encourage you to cut 100 beans in half, and count how many are purple, how many are brown, how many are 'soft/squishy' inside, and how many are moldy. That'll tell you an awful lot about the fermentation and drying. What is it about the flavor of the beans you've currently got that you don't like? does it take acidic/sour? do they smell like vinegar? Depending on what it is you do'nd tlike about what you already have, going to a 6 day fermentation may actually make you like it even less!
I live in Honduras, where the cocoa is grown and sold at local markets. Most of what I've batched with so far is from the local market, but I just ordered a 100 lbs. sack from a neighbor who has a cocoa farm down in the lower altitudes. I asked him how long he ferments and he said four days. Until your reply I'd been trying to figure out how to ask for six day fermentation, a special order, without offending him. He is very proud of the fact that his beans and those of his neighboring cocoa farmers, are exported to Europe. I don't know if that is any sign of quality, or if they are just used to press out butter.
As far as what I want, at this point I'd be elated to have something as bland as Hershey's. The selling point here is not some special dark chocolate that might sell for $40/lb in the USA. The selling point will be that it is "good enough", and made in Honduras, with Honduran products; the sugar and cacao are both produced here. There are no national nor regional brands of chocolate here. So for now I'm not looking to make "artisan" quality stuff, I just want something that I would not mind molding into a bar and selling like that, even if I never intend on getting into the bar market. Until then, we are gaining a name for ourselves by selling confections, which help mask the flavor of a chocolate I'm not real proud of. Although to be honest, a local vendor has tasted one of our bars and liked it.
Here's a starting point for looking at the cut test Sebastian refers to for your beans
If only it were that simple, everyone who has a PhD in an general field would know the answer 8-) not to diminish your friend's field, but i get the impression he's a generalist, and not a specialist. It's a bit like going to your family doctor for specific advice on cardiomyopathy. There may be a general familiarity with the topic, but i'd not wager my life savings on the advice.
The bitterness could be a result of the fermentation or the roasting, but it also may have absolutely nothing to do with either. Chocolate mfr requires SUCH a holistic understanding of the process it's often difficult to attribute blame or success on any one single process step. And for what it's worth, the baking soda's actually a very, very good idea. I've used it a time or two myself.
Do you have any control over your bean sourcing and processing, or are you simply working with beans that you ordered? If the latter, i'm afraid it may be be exceptionally difficult for you to affect any change, depending on what's causing the problem. 4 days of fermenting may be ideal for some beans, and 6 days ideal for others. "Ideal" is also a pretty ambiguous term - which is idea, a red car or a blue car? Much of "ideal" is personal preference, so if you have examples of finished chocolates you find "ideal" that helps to pinpoint what's required to get there.
Which origin beans are you using, do you have any firsthand knowldge of how they're processed (vs the guy who sold them to me said they were xxx), have you cut 100 of them in half to look at their color, etc?
Often times defining what attributes you want before you start is helpful, vs starting and then saying 'it's not what i want, what can i change'...
After a year and a half of gear up and a dozen experimental batches, I still consider myself an extreme novice at chocolate making.
Although we've made some huge improvements and the confections we make with our chocolate are highly sought after in the region, I don't consider the chocolate we're making as bar quality. I would not mold up chocolate into bars and sell it in that manner.
My wife calls it "wang". I agree there is an off taste. It is borderline bitter. I've read research papers suggesting that the roasting is not quite right. I've spoken with a friend who has a Phd in agriculture and is helping small African farmers make their own bars. He was telling me that bitterness is a result of under-fermented cacao, which would be difficult for me to do anything about.
I've even tried to add some baking soda in order to offset any remaining acid in the chocolate, but there's still a bit of a bite to it after that. For you purists out there, please don't cast any stones about the soda. :-)
Anyone else have suggestions? I typically conch/grind the chocolate for 48 hours. I have started using a forced air roaster that I rent from a neighbor, though we might have taken it to too high of a temp (150C) on our first attempt.
If it's a fermentation issue I will have to stop buying cacao at the open market and try to find a producer who will set some aside to ferment just for us. I spoke with one producer who says he ferments four days. I am told that six days is ideal.
A few years ago I ran across a bulk truffle shipping method/container that reminded me of egg crates but I cannot find my link or reference and searches are getting me nowhere. I've got a rather large order that we're shipping out of the country and I'd rather ship it in this system if I can find it.
Does anyone know of a bulk chocolate shipping container that can effectively hold hundreds of truffles?
The container I'm remembering can hold 500 units per box. I have 800 to ship.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
Hi all,
Could anyone suggest: Which cream truffle flavours can one pair with the following whiskeys?
1. (warm spicy with honey and rich fruit)
2. (sherry flavour with pear, creamy)
3. (apple and cinnamon)
CREAM TRUFFLES
lemon and ginger,
orange,
mint, green cardamom,
black cardamom,
lemon thyme
Thank you in advance.
Dima
Sebastian:
Thanks! If/when it gets to that stage I will reach out for some connections and introductions.
While Indonesia is the 3rd largest cocoa producing country in the world, it may not be the best in terms of getting a comprehensive cocoa understanding - one of the issues is that very, very, VERY few people in Indonesia ferment their beans. additionally, most cocoa is grown on the island of Sulawesi - although to be certain there is some grown on the other islands as well. bali's a pretty cool touristy spot to visit, but if you're looking for more ... authentic ... experiences i might point you to luwu utara in Sulawesi and visit rantepao for some very unique experiences. i'm sure i could connect you with some places that are fermenting there as well should you try to pull a trip together.
Bali sounds like a good destination but I also think the developed areas should not be left out in the chocolate area
Also Peru sounds good and Vietnam,India also is growing cocoa
To all ChocolateLife members:
I have made a connection with travel company that specializes in affinity group, philanthropic, and donor travel programs. They have a strong business working with company and organizations interested in providing their members one-of-a-kind travel programs with some sort of sustainability and/or corporate social responsibility component.
They are asking me to be a subject matter expert when it comes to offering programs around cacao and chocolate and sustainable production.
It occurs to me that these are travel opportunities that ChocolateLife members might like, and that we could be an affinity group and organize our own travel programs.
The question is, "Where would you like to go?"
The company works all over the world except in developed countries. So, no destinations in the US or Europe and some countries in SE Asia. But that leaves all of Central and South America, the Caribbean, East and West Africa, Indonesia (Bali!), and more.
So I'd like to hear from members where they would most like to go. Based on your input I will work with the company to select some destinations and work up a rough list of the experiences we could have while we're there.
And then I will invite ChocolateLife members to join me on fabulous journeys to learn about cacao and chocolate all over the world.
Here's to travel and adventure,
:: Clay
Thanks, Daniel. That is what I was thinking, so am a bit perplexed how well it works in practice.
He Glenn,
My enrober is definitely my most important piece of equipment. I have the Perfect 6 inch enrober. I have never seen the Chocovision enrober in action. I don't understand how it releases the chocolate. Most enrobers have a paper take off so that the enrobed pieces end up on a piece of paper. You then cut the paper and put it on a tray to fully crystallize. This chocovision is definitely the cheapest enrobing option I have seen. I wonder if there is a video of the machine in action?
I use Rev Delta machines for moulding chocolates and have always done this by hand (i.e., a ladle). I am considering introducing enrobed chocolates to my line, and came across the Chocovision enrober as one option. I'd love to hear anyone's experience with the skimmer, dispenser or enrober before investing in these. Thank you!
I've been recently searching for an affordable source for chocolate bar boxes. I have received a few quotes and the pricing seems really high (almost a dollar per box when buying 1000 pieces without any printing). The box style i'm looking for is like what Patric used to use, or like Ritual Chocolate style boxes. I've gone through the discussions here and called a few of the companies suggested, but most only do truffle style boxes.Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks, Sebastian- you basically told me everything I needed in your first two responses, it just had to knock around in my head a couple days before it clicked. I really appreciate your help!
sorry guys, have been travelling a bit and unable to respond. looks like you've got most of it worked out, if you have more questions let me know. Ash your idea is ok as long as y ou run it through a heat exchanger (ie you don't want the air 'touching' the finished product as it's likely that some of the air will be drawn out of the roaster before the kill has occurred, resulting in a very efficient salmonella distribution system...) run it through an enclosed heat exchanger to prevent that.
Correction to my above post: of course there's a way around recycling that air. I'll be venting both the storage closet and the roaster room to the exterior of the building. This will create negative pressure and not re-circulate "dirty" air.
To Ash below- now that I've redesigned the floor plan, I won't be using Sebastian's through the wall idea after all. Pity, I thought it was a cool one!
Hi there, Seems to be a great idea doing the through the wall roaster. Just out of curiosity as I am drawing up a floor plan as well, on a bit of a larger scale,
Would there be any benefit to trying to harness the heat of the roaster to add to the clean room to keep the oils in the grinders and conch a bit warmer? Rather than what some people do by adding a heat gun. Provided the grinders had there own room and where not in your cooler tempering area.
Then provided you didn't put a door between the dirty and clean room and instead whent through another room first would it be easy enough to test your roast without having to walk all the way around each time. A very roaster specific question I suppose.
PS- I just met with the owner, and it sounds like a variation on my plan will be workable. I think I'll go ahead and bring all walls to the ceiling. The roaster room includes the draw for air, so air will be pulled from adjacent rooms (clean room included) through the storage room, then through the roasting room and then into the filter. I suppose this creates something of a negative pressure storage room, if I draw out more air than I pull in? It also means drawing air from the storage room into the roaster room before it is drawn out again, but I'm not sure if there's a way around that.
Hi, Sebastian- yes, I apologize for not drawing doors, but all doorways (including the one from roasting to clean room) would have doors. And I don't see why I couldn't have the roaster discharge into the clean room (I gather that that encourages positive airflow outside the room?). There is a small vent into the roasting area, but the larger amount of air appears to flow from a larger vent into the clean room.
My overall space will be fully walled in from other rooms. Because the ceilings are very tall and sloping, I had heretofore thought I would wall in the bean storage space (I wish I had an exact figure, but I'd estimate the walls to be about 8 ft tall) but not add or reach a ceiling. I thought that would provide a barrier against small amounts of rising dust, but allow air flow into the closet from above, so the beans would not become too humid.
Likewise, I had envisioned another partial wall between the roasting room and clean room. I don't want to cut corners, as salmonella is something that terrifies me. It sounds like I should closely consider a floor to ceiling wall between the roasting and clean rooms- this would entirely enclose the roasting room and closet area. Again, I believe based on the size of the vents that there will be a greater amount of air flowing from the central AC into the clean than the roasting room.
Would it be idiotic not to fully enclose the storage closet (again, I'm not looking to cut corners; any stupid questions stem from astounding ignorance rather than willful disregard for safety)? Perhaps there's a way to bring air from the roasting room into the closet that I have not thought of, other than installing a new AC vent.
Thank you again for your help and patience- I know how busy you must be, and your quick responses are greatly appreciated. The commissary kitchen owner is going to submit final plans in the next day or so- I found out about this project only a few days ago, and it's moving very quickly.
Regards,
Carol
would you be able to close off the doorway from the 'clean room' to the roasting room, put a hole in the wall for your roaster to discharge into the clean room and seal it up tight, and configure the HVAC such that in your clean room there's more air blowing into it than in the roasting room (positive pressure to keep the dust out)?
Thank you, Sebastian. I was hoping you might see this and have the time to reply! Now that you mention it, I don't see why I couldn't add a second wall to fully segregate the raw bean work area. I've uploaded a basic floor plan that illustrates this (existing walls in black, future walls in gray).
I'll still need to periodically wheel bags of raw beans through a room with the potential to become a food prep area (although this is by no means a certainty), but they will at least be stored, unpacked and processed in a more fully segregated space.
Thank you again- for your reply both on this thread and on the many threads I've mooched off of quietly.
Best practice is to store raw beans separately from your finished goods, ideally under a negative pressure room (positive airflow outside the room), and have separate employees/clothes/traffic patterns/air handling systems from finished goods. Airborne dust will be an issue. i'm assuming you're going to have a very difficult time doing that in the space you have available. You might consider a scenario where your 'dirty' room is separated by a physical wall - one one side of the wall you've got your bean storage, roasting, and winnowing - with the discharge of the roaster going through the wall to your 'clean' side, where you mill and make your chocolate. an environmental monitoring program would also be considered best practice to ensure the controls you put in place are effective.
