Hello Richard,
Thanks for the reply. Would like to learn more. I can send you some details and would like to learn more about what you have and Icam. Perhaps we can get some samples send to our warehouse in Blaine, WA.
We are currently looking for additional supply of organic and fair trade cacao liquor and are wondering if anyone on The Chocolate Life located in the US or Canada could offer us supply in the 25KG + (up to pallet quantities) of a very good quality cacao liquor? We have worked with Dominican, Peruvian and Costa Rican liquor, but are also interested in other origins.
We have warehousing in Washington state and are also located in British Columbia Canada, so shipping in either country is possible.
Thanks! Kent
Do you supply small batches of fermented cocoa beans? About 10lb?
Hi,
i have used Mycryo to set a raspberry mousse with no gelatin, it works very well if you keep the temperature under-control otherwise it will split (almost like when you make pound cake and the eggs are too cold).
So start with a rather warmer base (depend on your recipe..) and then add your Mycryo in.
I have tried to replace Mycryo with just "Microplaned" cocoa butter and it works fine in pastry application.
If you would like to have a very fine powder, a simple trick: Temper CB, put in a spray gun and spray into a tray, scrape, put in a container and there you should have a fine powdered cocoa butter...
Clay, I use normal tempered CB regularly and have noticed no discernible difference. Caveat: I have only used it for tempering, not as a thickener for desserts.
However, from what I remember of the Valrhona class, it really didn't matter as it was used for its solidification properties rather that its tempering properties, and it could be melted to just about any temperature.
Cheebs -
Don't you think tempered cocoa butter will work a little differently? My understanding is that the crystals in Mycryo are pretty much all Form VI which accounts for their "aggressiveness" in setting up.
I don't have much experience using Mycryo in pastry, just in savory.
:: Clay
Can regular cocoa butter be used in place of Mycryo?
For instance, to set a fruit mousse or a cold cheesecake. Instead of using gelatin I have used Mycryo, however it is very expensive. Thanks .
Hi,
Is there such a thing as a small machine that will package chocolate bars in foil and paper wrappers? What I've seen online is huge machines that do large volumes or instructions on how to wrap by hand. I'm wondering if there's a small scale version of a machine to do the chocolate packaging.
Thanks,
Geetha
Hi Folks,
A few quick questions about Cemoi couverture,
Thanks,
Stu
Thanks for the tips. I'll try them this weekend. TheChicago house co-op is a great idea 
. I still seem to be having trouble when using the seed method to temper.I get the temperature up to about 115 Fthen use 20%by weight for seeding which helps drop the temperature to about 95 F but it takes forever (orit just seems like it )for the temperature to drop down to 80F (Then I bring it back up to 86 F to work with it). Any tips on helping the chocolate cool faster?
Hi Jo-Ellen,
I live near the Minn/Wis border, and I'm going to strongly encourage you, as others have, to take a class at either the French Pastry School or Callebaut Chocolate Academy, both in Chicago. I've taken classes both places, and they are both excellent, friendly, and immensely helpful. (Anyone want to start a student housing co-op for chocolate students in Chicago?)
I'd also agree with others on the melt by microwave option. It's much faster (pretty much blister free). I have a microwave that has a hotspot (maybe all of them do, I don't know). So I melt 30-40 seconds at a time at first, stirring between, and then 20-30 secs. as I go. Once you have chocolate melted, you can temper it via seeding, and then use a heat pack (from your local Walgreens) that you warm in the microwave to keep it workable for longer. Or, you can zap the bowl back in the microwave for 5-10 seconds at a time and stir, to keep it workable longer also.
of advice and the support - Jo-Ellen
Thanks so much for the reply -
I'm glad I'm not crazy in thinking it was taking way too long to temper my chocolate, whew I'll try the heat gun trick next time the chocolate gets to thick. I would love to take a class unfortunately I live in central Wisconsin, not exactly a booming metropolis. I have been musing over the idea of looking for a course in Milwaukee or Chicago. It seems like to way to go at this point. Again, Thanks for the help. Jo-Ellen
I agree with Gap's comments and have a few other comments to add. Two hours to temper is way too long and you are definitely over-tempered. Once your chocolate is within your working temperature it should be more fluid than you are describing.
The solution to your problem may not be the end product (i.e. too thick chocolate). Make sure you are melting out your chocolate to a high enough temp to melt out all the crystals prior to beginning the tempering process. If you don'tdo this you will absolutely be over crystalized at your working temperature. If you are stirring for the entire 2 hours, then you will also be over crystalized. What kind of bowl are you melting your chocolate in? Glass will hold heat much longer than metal or a plastic bowl (for microwave only).
One other suggestion for once your chocolate is tempered and you are trying to maintain it's fluidity/working temperaturebesides the heat gun (although I have a heat gun and like it)is to use a microwave. It will take you a time or two to figure out what works time-wise. On my microwave I will put the bowl in for 5-6 seconds on 50% power. Sometimes it needs a bit less and sometimes a bit more but the microwave is a very effective way control the temperature within a few degrees.
As for adding cocoa butter, I don't recommend this as a solution. You can and will figure out how to correctly temper chocolate so that is has fluidity. I think adding cocoa butter is like adding a bandaid and it doesn't solve the issue.
I don't do large molds and have never had the need to put my smaller molds (individual bonbons) in the fridge. It sounds like at your working temperature that you don't need to put them in the fridge unless you are doing large pieces.
I also think taking a class is a good idea. If you live in a large town/city you could even hire someone for a lesson. Call around either to chocolate shops or bakeries and find someone with some experience.
Good luck and you WILL master tempering!
Andrea
Everyone has their own opinions on things like this, but I'll have a go at answering for you:
1. 2 hours sounds way too long. I temper 3-4 kilos of chocolate using the seed method in about 15-20 minutes. I'm sure there's others out there who do it faster as well.
2. Chocolate is over-tempered when it is in temper, but is very thick and doesn't flow well. Use a heat gun (eg., paint stripper from the hardware store or a hair-dryer) on the chocolate for 5-10 seconds at a time while stirring to get the chocolate fluid again. You don't want to heat the chocolate too much or else you will knock it out of temper and have to re-temper it.
3. Sounds like it's over-tempered and you'll need some sort of heat gun on it
4. This one depends - usually on your room temperature and the size of your moulds. I think cooling too slowly or too quickly can cause "blooming" issues. The idea is to find the right middle ground. I always put large moulds (eg., large Easter egg) into the fridge, but smaller moulds (eg., individual bon bons) I allow to cool at room temperature.
It sounds like you're at a stage where taking some sort of class would be a huge benefit - actually seeing someone working with the chocolate and seeing how it should look (eg., how fluid) and a professional's technique for moulding. Given you've taught yourself so much already, you would probably pick up everything very quickly in an environment where you saw it all happening.
Hi - I am relatively new to making chocolates and have learned through books and the internet. 80% of the time my chocolates turn out very wellbutI am at the point where Icould really usesome sage advice to help refine my process. If you could help me out I'd really appreciate it.
1. It often takes me 2hrs to hand temper about 2 lbs of chocolate using the seeding method. Is it normal to take so long? The room temp is 68 F and I'm getting blisters from stirring.
2. How do you know if your chocolate is over-tempered? What is the best way to correct over-tempered chocolate?
3. My chocolateappears (to me at least) to get very thick when it finally gets into temper (I always do a temper test before using it) and then because of its viscosity it gets very had to mold into shells. I've tried adding cocoa butter. Any other remedies you could recommend?
4. I have read that molded shells should be put in the fridge to set and I've read to absolutely not use the fridge. I've read that coolng chocolate to fast causes bloom but I've also read that cooling chocolate to slow also causes bloom. Which is correct? What is the best way to mold shells?
Thanks, Jo-Ellen
Hi Mickey,
I totally agree with Brad, a proper business plan is a must. I did write and implement a few of them in my previous career before turning to chocolate and they included a few extra zeros compared with our current artisanal bean-2-bar chocolate project.
Also agree with an earlier comment: a decent business plan allows you to tap into bank / investors which can make all the difference between day dreaming about your company and actually getting it started.
Having said that the investment and monthly spend figures that you quoted are small but not unrealistic as such, but it's just impossible to say without the other side of the equation:
How much are you selling your products for?
Based on that, how much margin are you making on each unit you are selling (leaving aside fixed costs)?
How many units are you going to sell?
If you find out that your number of units x margin per unit eventually covers your fixed costs you're on the right track. I sometimes see people getting fixated on the margin % without thinking of the production numbers, which are just as important: say you are making a 100% margin on reindeer-shaped chocolates you import from northern Latvia, they cost you 1USD and you sell them for 2, that's a really good margin, but, assuming it takes you time and effort to source and sell your wares, unless you know for sure you can sell a couple thousands of them per month you're probably better off keeping your day job.
Cheers,
Sam
Mickey;
I don't want to sound like a jerk, so please don't take my comment here as such.
Starting ANY business needs planning and estimating up front. 80% of small businesses FAIL in the first 12 months because the owner is either "too busy" to take the time to plan, or is completely disillusioned as to the amount of work in starting a venture.
The spreadsheet I described in detail how to set up in my first post is an absolute necessity for the following reasons:
1. It creates a list of everything you are going to spend money on.
2. It keeps it organized
3. It provides you with a roadmap of goals.
4. It allows you to evaluate whether or not your business is going to be successful before you spend a single dime.
I've personally done a few proforma's only to find that the numbers didn't work. A little work up front saved me several hundred thousand dollars!
I may have the prior experience, and can do a lot of this in my head, but believe it or not, on Saturday evening I was out in the mountains camping, had my laptop by the fire, and was doing EXACTLY what I just described for you to do, in order to estimate the costs of opening my next location.
In my opinion, whether you're spending $1,000 or $100,000, you need to formulate a plan and some "what if's". The spreadsheet I described allows you to do just that.
The equipment list that Clay is asking you to provide is PART of that spreadsheet.
Cheers, and best of luck to you.
Brad
Mickey:
Without going into too much detail (i.e., specific equipment names/brands - unless you want to share) can you give us a breakdown of where you're spending that $50/100K?
So -
Just curious to see what the relative allocation of costs is.
:: Clay
BTW: There are no startup calculators/books that cover this topic specifically, though Pam Williams may go over it in her classes at Ecole Chocolat.
Ahhhh... Where to start??? Having done this before, started numerous entrepreneurial ventures (some successful and some not), the best place to start is with a spreadsheet and an "ideal" vision of what you would like your business to look like, including location. Columns = Months and Rows = costs and revenues.
Once you've got your spreadsheet laid out, brainstorm a list of ALL the equipment you can envision in your ideal business. Research the prices, and delivery times, and plot them in your 1st 6 months of your spreadsheet. Be sure to include such things as signage, business cards, your first packaging order, kitchen tools, sheet pans, molds, tables, fridges, ribbon, bows, labels, display cases/stands, tempering machines, a food processor, a mixer, bowls, and plastic containers for product, sheet pans, sheet pan lids, and the list goes on and on.
Then create a list of everything you will need to open your "store" - costs such as 1st month's rent, damage deposit, leashold improvements, signage, chairs, utility deposits (gas, electricity, etc).
These and your equipment costs go in your "up front costs". You can plot your expenses in the first 6 months as you incur them, for budgeting purposes, but you will still need to record them.
Plot your spreadsheet in such a way that your everyday business expenses actually "start" 6 months after you start spending money (expenses such as staff labour, rent, utilities, telephone, internet, permits, etc). You need to do this because, quite often chocolate equipment comes from different areas of the world, and can take as long as 3 months to arrive. Beans are often 2-3 months out (again depending on the size of the order). You also need to account for your time. Start "billing" your company the minute you start working on it, and this includes the 6 months prior to opening. After all, you can't live for free while you're getting started. You TOO need a salary/wage.
Plot out ALL of the expenses you can think of in your "IDEAL" business vision. Only then can you determine how much product you need to sell in order to create a sustainable business. Helpful "standard" numbers in the food industry are as follows: Labour cost: 35-40%, Food cost: 30% (Chocolate industry is a bit lower - say about 25%)
In my opinion this is the only way you are really going to know what it will cost to set up your business.
Once this is complete, you can then determine what you need to order, make, and sell as product. It will also give you an idea of how many staff you will need to do so.
If you are looking for investment capital from friends, family, or financial institutions, they will all want to see these numbers to make sure you're organized, and to make sure their money is going to the right place.
I did this for my first location, and have to do it for EVERY location I open. I'm going through this exact exercise this week for another location I'm opening. Every location has different costs to open, and this is why I have to do it.
Cheers.
I hope this helps.
Brad
This is in response to another discussion that was started over in the Classifieds group asking about the cost of setting up a small confectionery kitchen.
There is a lot of interest in making chocolate from beans, both in-country and out. There are many challenges, not least of which is securing the necessary equipment. It's easy and relatively inexpensive to find equipment for the kitchen hobbyist making 5lb-5kg batches.
It's also easy (but expensive) to find equipment that can be used to make large batches (1MT) at a time.
However, it's not so easy to find equipment for most everything in between that is both affordable and where each piece is scaled to the same throughput.
Yes, there are "turn key" systems you can purchase that are scaled properly. These might cost anywhere from $80-100k on the low end, for a system roughly capable of up to 50 kg/day up to 100,000 Euros for something capable of producing between 250-400kg/day.
It's also possible to piece together systems using a combination of commercially available machinery and home-grown pieces where needed, but this requires a certain mechanical ingenuity that not everyone possesses or has the patience for.
Jim Lucas over in the thread in Classifieds , asked about what it takes to produce in-country (in Jim's case, Brazil).
New member James Swanwick asked a very good related question , which is how much does it cost to produce a single bar of chocolate. Another way to ask this question - which may be more useful - is, "What is the minimum level of production (and sales) you need to get to in order to have a real (i.e., sustainable) business?
I am really looking forward to the discussion on this.
Having trouble finding any industry research on profit margins.
In a nutshell: I want to know what it costs to make a bar of chocolate and put a wrapper on it.
Yes, there are 100 variables. But if anyone has any case studies on profit margins, would appreciate the info. Thanks!
