No problem Hank! I'm just surprised that I remembered their chocolates...I'm a big fan of organic chocolate, so I know that their 60% organic was one of the best semi-sweets I've had. I'm looking at Chefshop right now and they have it! It's called "Agostoni Organic 60% San Primo"...you just reminded me that I made a mental note to purchase some semi-sweet chocolate for the holidays!
Dear Ann,
Thanks! Do you remember which of their dark chocolates you tried?
I was able to try their chocolate at the Summer Fancy Food show. From what I can remember, I was surprised by the quality of their chocolate. I believe their Organic white chocolate blew me away. I'm more of a dark chocolate lover, so I was surprised that I actually liked their white! Their hazelnut chocolate was also amazing. The sales representative had said that chefshop.com carries their line...I hope that helps!
Agostini is a subsidiary of ICAM, the Italian-based multinational.
Hi! I've run across an Italian brand of chocolate but could not find a single review of it on the internet.
The brand is called Agostoni.
Have any of you had any experience with this brand?
Thanks!
Rodney:
Thank you very much for making this point. I deliberately left this sit overnight to see if there would be any response from the community and to make sure that I was not replying from an emotional perspective.
I also made a point of going to a meeting of a New York group called The Society of Enlightened Entrepreneurs last night and it was during the meeting that I came to clarity on what to do.
Tom, Richard: Your interests, naturally, lie with the companies you work for or own. My interests lie with TheChocolateLife community. You may disagree or dislike the decisions I make about how I run TheChocolateLife, but they are my decisions to make. At every point I am going to consider the needs of the entire community - as a global entity, which includes my wants and needs, by the way - over the wants of manufacturers and distributors.
Last night,I made the decision to close this thread to further discussion as it had drifted so far from the original poster's question, not because I am trying to "censor" Richard's or Tom's discussions on whether or not I am being "fair" to them. Tom and Richard, Rodney is right: This is a discussion you need to take up off-line. TheChocolateLife is not a place to air the relative merits of your equipment, company's viewpoints, or anything that is not directly applicable to the discussion at hand. I also want to let you know that any continuation of this discussion at any level in any other public posts on TheChocolateLife will be looked upon very negatively.
You can, of course, take this up with me privately; I know you both have my e-mail address.
:: Clay
To all,
Just form a side-line, this whole discussion is not really interesting to be honest. So could you please do this off line? I guess you know how to find each other?
Best regards from a remote Amsterdam
Rodney Nikkels
To Richard,
Sorry and correct me if I am wrong but I think that Pomati is not the only brand that you represented in the past, isn't it ? It's important to stay credible in the brands (in this case tempering machines) that you represent and it's impossible to change flags regularly.
Good luck
Tom
Dear Tom I will send you an email by tomm. Thanks for the reply
Richard:
Your comment is tantamount to my walking into your new center in Irvineand complaining, after you pull down flyers I have posted on your walls- loudly and to everyone who might be in your showroom at the time -that you won't let me sell competitive products in your place of business.
Furthermore, imagine my walking in and, when a prospective customer asks a question about a Pomati (or some other brand you sell) machine, I start talking up the virtues of a brand you don't sell.
What would your reaction be? I don't think you'd be very happy. You'd probably usher me out of your place of business and demand that I never come back. And, as the business owner,you would be within your rights to do so.
TheChocolateLife is my on-line place of business. It may be a small business in terms of the revenue it generates, but it's a huge business in terms of global reach and influence. My perception is that you want to unfairly take advantage of my place of business by not abiding by policies you and I have discussed offline.
Qzina is a multi-million dollar business and I have a policy on TheChocolateLife that businesses that are in the business of selling products and services to confectioners and chocolate makers have to pay to promote them. We discussed this last summer in Washington, DC when we met during the Fancy Food Show.
You are right, I did delete several posts where you promoted the Pomati tempering machines you are now representing. BUT - I did it BEFORE I had a relationship with FBM. I deleted the posts because the content was inappropriate in the context of the original poster's question. I believe that I wrote you an e-mail at the time, explaining why.
You will see that I am NOT "censoring" Mr Bauwerarts' responses because he is actually an employee of Selmi and is responding to questions about Selmi machines. The same is true for responses from Brian Donaghy, who used to be employed by Tomric, the US dealer for Selmi.
You will notice, if you care to look, that there have been several recent discussions about ChocoMa and Perfect tempering and enrobing machines. You will also notice that I have featured ALL of the Qzina Institute classes and events at your new school ... all the way forward to October. (I also do this for BAKON.)
What I object to, Richard, is your perception that I owe you anything . You are attempting to reach the members of my community to sell them products and services. It is my policy to ask companies like Qzina to pay me a very modest amount for granting access. I do this so I don't have to clutter up the site with advertising banners that are irrelevant and intrusive.
I have no objections if you respond to direct questions about Pomati machines. I have no objections if you supply answers to technical questions about other tempering machines and say how Pomati does things differently. In other words, I have no objections if what you post is relevant and adds value to the discussion at hand. I do object if you see your response primarily as an opportunity to sell - or cross-sell - something.
If you want to promote Pomati or any other brand(s) Qzina represents then I respectfully request that you comply with my commercial policies. You can promote any and all Qzinaproducts - in the Classifieds. Classified ads cost $10 each or $100/year for up to 1 post per week. Or you can take out a Member Marketplace ad and/or Sponsor a group . You can also work with me to provide things of value to ChocolateLife members that compensate me via success fees. I would have no problem if you and I organized a series of classes in Irvine, we jointly promoted them, and I was compensated to give the classes. We talked about this specifically last summer, but I didn't pursue it because you wanted me to assume 100% of the costs and risk for promoting "my" events at your school (ignoring the fact that I would be promoting your school at the same time).
It's clear that you want to reach ChocolateLife members because you recognize that the community is a valuable one that's very highly focused and contains a large number of potential customers. What I want to be equally clear about is that I have worked very hard over the past four years growing TheChocolateLife to its current position and scope, and over the prior seven years on chocophile.com and on my writing and promoting my book, Discover Chocolate . Qzina is a business that you have worked very hard to grow. I know, from talking with you directly, that you are very careful not to let other people and companies "take advantage" of the hard work you've done without your being compensated appropriately.
All I ask is that you think of TheChocolateLife - and me - in the same light. I cannot, and will not, allow you to take advantage of TheChocolateLife to grow your business without directly recognizing - in monetary terms - the value of my business and my expertise, experience, and network, personally. And I object to your characterization of me publicly and without any notice as being a really cheap shot.
Membership in the community is free and voluntary. If you don't want to play by the house rules, you are free to not participate in the community.
:: Clay
PS.For your information, I do list the companies I have financial relationships with right on the home page of TheChocolateLife immediately under the Groups section at the top. It may not have been obvious enough, so I edited it to make it more obvious.
Dear Devika,
Would it be possible to send me again the mail to t.bauweraerts@selmi-group.it. We have sometimes the problem that mails get into our spam account frequently.
Sorry for the inconvenience caused.
Tom
Dear Tom
I have been trying to contact selmi on the email on its website as well sent an email to your id few months ago but got no reply. I am looking to find if you have distributors in India ? my email id is devika.kandhari@gmail.com
Tom:
If you take a close look, you'll see that I actually refer THREE companies' temperers, melters - Selmi, Chocovision, and Bakon, and have commission relationships with all three (Selmi through Tomric in the US). I have referred the sale of a Plus in 2011 and have, when the situation arises, directly notified Tomric of technical questions about Selmi equipment they might want to answer.
I currently do not have a relationship with FBM, though we are working in that direction.
Each of these companies offers products at different price points and capabilities.You will see that I represent both Irinox and Desmon. Both offer similar products, but again, at different price points and capabilities.
I try to be as aware of the technical competitive differences as I can; if I make a mistake in how I represent something it is from imperfect knowledge, not a preference of one brand over another. I try to take into account, as best I can, what someone's needs are and make the best recommendation I can. I would be more than happy for Selmi to bring me to the factory in Italy to get up to the minute training on your products so that I can speak about them from a position of first-hand knowledge.
For nearly four years, now, I have chosen to keep TheChocolateLife virtually free from advertising. I do offer advertising, sponsorship, and referral programs that make sense for the communityit somehow has to be related to chocolate. That's how I earn the money to keep TheChocolateLife operating; paying for the direct, hard costs of keeping the site and community open, operating, alive, vibrant, and growing and not a whole lot more.
I am always open to comments about where my product and technical knowledge is imperfect. In this way I can grow - and the community can grow as well.
:: Clay
Dear All,
I notice that Clay has become a reseller for certain machines. A pity because I thought that the creator of 'The Chocolate Life' (which is great) should not take any sides and should only advise correctly on machinery. We invite you to learn about the difference between FBM and Selmi. We invite you in our factory to come and have a look to our machinery that we make. You can also visit our website on www.selmi-group.it where we recently added some videos on other machinery that we make. OUr standard range has always been 4 types of tempering machinery and now we have the EX models. With these models you can was the archimedian screw completely because you can easily take it out. Also the other parts can be washed completely, so no chocolate stays in the system.
If you see a system of removable screw, please ask the seller to do a demonstration on this how easy it is. It is easy to make a removable screw, but with some other brands you need to be a technician to put it back.
I understand that sometimes people do not believe me, because I am the export responsable of the Selmi factory, but I ask them always before to buy, to test first all the features of the machinery very well.
The purchase of machinery in the chocolate business is very important and we are very well aware of this. We are making a lot of tempering machines yearly and we have in the US a great reseller that can give the service after sales locally and they also offer training sessions on the Selmi equipment.
I also want to make the people aware about the small machinery and the enrobing belt. How many chocolates you cover with an enrobing belt on a tempering machine of 7 or 8 kgs and another question is the space where the chocolates are covered and the time before they go on a belt is really short. where is the excess chocolate going in this short period. We think for this investment it's better to work by hand and safe money for a machine that helps you to earn money.
check it out and let me know if you have any further questions.
Regards
Tom Bauweraerts (t.bauweraerts@selmi-group.it)
The machine is set for 220VAC 3-phase 50 Hz. It is possible to kit the units at the factory a 220VAC 60 Hz single-phase motor or to use a static phase inverter that you purchase on your own. The price, ex-factory is 9700 Euros, including the enrobing belt, which is 180mm wide. Crating (100 Euros) and shipping (depends on destination and method) are extra.
I believe the FBM machines also have removable/reversible augurs to make them easy to clean.
Depending on your production volumes, FBM also has a small tabletop machine (the Aura) that is inexpensive enough to be dedicated to white chocolate production. It has a 4kg work bowl and 10kg/hr throughput and offers continuous as opposed to batch operation and has an integrated vibration table.
The next FBM machine up offers the same throughput as a Color EX, but is less expensive while offering the removable/reversible augur and three-zone temperature control instead of the two zones in a Selmi, offering more control over crystallization.
I can offer discounts on FBM machines to ChocolateLife members - maybe enough to make it possible for you to purchase both machines for close to the same price as one Selmi Color EX.
Dear Matt,
Although I don't know the color ex (we have the selmi one system, the smallest). I definitely would buy a machine that can be opened and cleaned, and the Color Ex is such a system. We need to flush the machine and cocoa butter doesn't work because the pump doesn't pump pure butter, it is too liquid. So you'll loose the first 1-2 kg while changing chocolate. This is quite inefficient and I would wish we had bought the one with the removable srew. From the reseller I understood that it's quite simple to remove and clean it. For the rest the Selmi works excellent I must say, but perhaps others do as well.
Best regards,
Rodney Nikkels
Chocolatemakers, Amsterdam,
The Netherlands
Hello everyone,
Sorry if this has been covered before but I couldn't find the answer.
I'm currently looking to buy atempering machine for my startup. I live in SouthKorea and have access toSelmi,Gami, FBMbrand continuous tempering machines.
I need to change between white/dark/milk chocolates on a daily basis and prefer this process to be as conventient as possible. l'd alsoprefer to buy only 1 machineto save on costs. The COLOR EX model has caught my interest since its advertised with a removable screw for cleaning? I've contacted some other brands and they told me I'd have to clean the machine and flush it with cocoa butter to change from milk -> white, etc.
I'd like to know how easy it is to change chocolates with the COLOR EX model. How long does it take? is some chocolate wasted? What are the steps involved.
Any help would be appreciated, thank you 
I have tried both methods and there are great recipes for both. I currently use the method that requires you to add all the ingredients (including the cream) at once. I find that you get a more complex flavor with deep dairy notes. Mark explains it really well. The method I use requires a lot more stirring as milk proteins will burn if not stirred frequently. Good luck!
Caramelization of sugar and of milk are two completely different things. Caramelization of sugar is a breakdown of the sugars, producing several new compounds that produce the brown color and it's flavor. With milk it's a Malliard reaction between the milk proteins and the reducing sugars (glucose, lactose, maltose..... but not sucrose). With milk the flavor and color are controlled by time, temperature, and pH. So even if you cook to the same temperature, but one batch taking longer than the other will give two different color/flavored caramels. Even changes in the water you use can make changes (pH, hardness...)
As far as recipes, there are hundreds. It's all a matter of what you want in color, flavor, and texture. Milk caramels are usually not colored by caramelized sugars as the temperature doesn't get high enough. Sugar will start caramelizing over 300F and developing a nice flavor about 345F. Much over that you start forming compounds (HMF) that give strong bitter notes.
I've been researching recipes for caramels for different chocolates and have been puzzled by an apparent difference in culinary opinions. I know the addition of dairy results in a creamier caramel, but some insist on adding it at the beginning of the cook, and others insist on adding it after caramelization of the sugar. It shouldn't affect the texture, should it? The cream still caramelizes whether it's with or after the sugar caramelizes, so I don't see any tasting difference. Really it comes down to stirring and time management from what I can see. To be honest, I haven't taken the exact recipe and made that single change to find out for myself - I'll report if I get it done this weekend - but I was wondering if any Chocolatelife people had their own theories/preferences.I would appreciate any ideas/opinions/data/speculation, etc....
I would also like to suggest that you check the accuracy of the thermocouple on your machine. Put a thermometer beside it as it goes through its cycles. With the exception of humidity (or the lack thereof) making the chocolate thicker or thinner, cocoa butter more or less follows the same non negotiable rules every time. Equipment does fail, so if you're having trouble one day and not the next, I would look at the tempering machine.
Cheers.
Brad
After completely starting over after washing out the machine and melting new chocolate, the temper today was perfect. Still not completely sure what happened, but it's solved for now.
Is it possible for bulk chocolate (like you buy from the supplier) to absorb moisture and that is what affects the temper?
Hi Jasmine,
Did you check your fridge? maybe the humidity is high in there, or the temperature is too low.
Another thing to look for is the temperature of your chocolate moulds, theymight be too cold when you pour into them.Another possible temperature shock scenario.
Good luck,
O
Hi jasmine, how did you get on? Did you take the working temperature of the chocolate when the machine said it was "in temper"?
I'm not familiar with either the chocolate, or the machine you are using, however what I would say is if the chocolate this time does not temper, then maybe temper a batch (1kg) by hand using the seeding method and see if you can temper it that way... if it tempers, then you know it is a problem with the machine.
Same thing happened just now to me with the 55%. Again, 64 degree fahrenheit, but this time 47% humidity. I dumped that batch of chocolate (which was the same chocolate just melted down again) out onto to a tray and started with a brand new box of Noel. I shall wait and see what happens with this new batch....
relative humidity and temp seem to be fine..
Hello everyone!
My little chocolate shop has been open for about 4 months now, and all of a sudden, I'm having tempering issues. (Of course it has to happen with 5 custom orders due in the next few days! Ugh!)
So, a little background. I'm using 2 Chocovision Revolation 3210s, and Noel chocolate (55% and 72%). The machine with the 72% has the new 'holey baffle' in it.
At the time of the difficulties, the kitchen was 64 degrees Fahrenheit, and humidity was 51%.
The 55% came into temper first, and the first test was horrible. All white and dusty, as if it wasn't in temper at all. Second test was the same, and the third. So...I hit the reset button on that one and moved on to the 72%. Exactly the same thing happened.
I'm assuming since the same situation happened to both machines, it was a environmental thing, rather than a machine malfunction.
Is 51% humidity too much? Is my room too cold? I don't know what I'm doing wrong, and this hasn't happened to me since I opened...
Thank you in advance for your help!
Look at the moisture level and the sugar types and levels.If the water isn't tied up enough by the sugars it will easily migrate into the chocolate, making the chocolate soft, and the center will shrink and firm up. How the chocolate is standardized to viscosityalsoinfluences how fast the migration occurs.
I exclusively use square magnetic molds for my truffles, and the same thing was happening to me. I reduced the amount of cream I used by about 2 tsp and haven't had the problem since.
Good luck!
Thank you!...I usually do but in this particular case I didn't. Thanks I will try again and see how it goes.
Do you let your ganache set overnight before you cap it or enrobe it ? The ganache will shrink and suck the sides of your chocolate in..
This is the short version to a long answer...
Hope it helps !!
Hi,
Just wondering if anyone can tell me why some of my chocolates sides cave in after a few days. Im' guessing its either from the shell being too thin or the mixture having too much moisture.
They look great at first and then a few days later. the sides are all concave.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you
Cocoa Jo
Hey Stu,
where about in New Zealand are you starting your business?
Thanks and a happy new year!
Anissa
Stu:
At that kind of throughput, a couple of options suggest themselves to me.
The first is a continuous machine like a Selmi Color EX. It's about 10,000 Euros ex-works Italy. It's sweet spot for production is right in the range you are talking about. As you mention it's not a great option as you can only afford one and if anything goes wrong ... The EX model has the removable augur making changeover faster.
Another continuous tempering option is the FBM Prima. This has a 7kg tank and an hourly capacity in the 35kg range, but the price is 6,000 Euros ex-works Italy, before a ChocolateLife member discount. You can run milk in one, dark in another, or the same chocolate in both to reach ~70kg/hr throughput. And you have a backup machine in case one goes down.
Another option is what are called "over/under" tempering tanks. These are basically two melting tanks, one positioned over the other. The top tank holds melted chocolate that is dripped into the bottom tank, The bottom tank is tempered using the seed method (there is an agitator), and chocolate is removed via a valve at the bottom of the lower tank. There are many operations that use this approach for very high volume production. The cost depends on the sizes of the tanks and whether or not there is a pump involved - but you should be able to buy two sets for the budget you're talking about. The vibrating table is not included, but you can get one that holds three full-size molds from Chocovision for about US$800.
:: Clay
Hi Clay,
Hourly throughput in the range of 50 - 90kg
Cheers
Stu
Sorry, throughput, not capacity: 25 kg/hr or 25 kg/day?
A machine has a work bowl capacity and an average hourly throughput capacity. A batch melter might have a high bowl capacity (e.g., 25kg, but if it take 1 hour to melt and temper 25kg, then its throughput is limited to the number of cycles in a day.
The small Selmi's have work bowl capacities that are small, but have throughput capacities that are multiples higher. If you only needed 25kg day of chocolate, you could get by with a machine with a 4kg work bowl capacity with an hourly throughput of 10kg.
Make sense?
Hi Clay
Good point, have edited my post above to include the relevant information, which is:
Continuous Automatic (would be nice!) or semi-automatic wheel machine (most likely what I can afford). I do not want a manual melter.
Size - 25kg capacity is about right for us.
Thanks
Stu
Stu:
What kind of hourly/daily production are you looking at?
Also - be aware of the difference between automatic tempering machines (i.e., continuous tempering machines, e.g., Selmi), semi-automatic machines (i.e., batch/wheel, e.g., Perfect, JVK), and melters (i.e., manual tempering).
Automatic is most expensive, and because of the electronics, most likely to break. These also offer the highest production capacity and throughput with enrobing, mold filling, and depositing options. Usually have buit-in vibrating tables.
Semi-automatic is middling expensive and are much more rugged. Second-highest capacity and throughput with enrobing options.
Manual are least expensive (though not cheap) and least likely to give problems. However, the require the highest degree of skill to use and need to be tweaked during the day. No options, everything is done by hand. Can be high throughput for skilled workers.
Which way to go depends on your confidence and your skill level as well as the mix of products you're making and how much chocolate you go through every day. If you can answer these last three questions, we can make better recommendations,
:: Clay
