Thanks Ramon. You're right.
In my exploratory stage, I came across this terms - cocoa mass. And I couldnt find a great answer.
BTW, do you only process cocoa mass for making chocolate or do you do bean-to-bar as well?
Akbar Kaliwala.
Akbar,We only use Fino Arriba cacao... But your question should rather come after you decide what origin chocolate youprefer?
I would try an taste a variety from different origins, with the least "other ingredients" possible. Your cacao mass is like the grapes off the vines before wine making... chocolate in its rawest form. Let your taste buds decide. Then you can pursue cacao mass suppliers from what ever origin(s). Good luck on a great search...
What was the origin of the cocoa mass you have used?
Can you suggest me a good supplier to try it out?
Cocoa Mass or Cocoa Liquor is the normal way for chocolatemakers to safely store their production materials for extended periods of time. So yes, I use cocoa mass almost every time I make chocolate. (The exception would be when we start from nibs)
So, to answer point 2, it was just fine.
Thank you for your reply.
1. Did you ever try using cocoa mass to make your chocolate?
2. How was it?
1. Cocoa mass is simply roasted, winnowed and coarsely ground cacao
2. It is the first stage of the grinding process
3. Yes
4. None basically... just don't expose to extreme conditions
5. Yes
Hi all,
I recently came across a supplier in Ivory Coast who was offering cocoa mass for my enquiry regarding raw materials.
My questions:
Looking forward to some answers.
Akbar Kaliwala
Hi all,
I am from India and during a recent trip to one of the agricultural colleges, I have identified some land which might be suitable to growing cocoa.
Unfortunately, the college doesnt have seeds/saplings to try it out.
I was wondering if anyone could help me source maybe saplings/seeds to try it out.
And while at it, I might want to try sourcing from Latin America and Ghana to see the result.
If I could get all three - criollo, forastero and trinitario, it would really help in terms of identifying which type would be suitable.
Also, how many seeds would I need to carry out my testing?
Thanks in advance.
Akbar Kaliwala.
The ganache will go bad long before the nuts turn rancid. I think you can figure about 3 weeks for your truffles until they spoil, grow mold, etc. unless you freeze them. I am assuming you know your nuts need to be toasted prior to using them with your chocolates. Doing this accomplishes a few things but should also extend the time before they turn rancid. I've found old bags of untoastednuts in the back of my cabinets after monthsand they seem fine. How quickly they turn rancid will depend on the oil content (plus storage conditions).
Look at the centers. Chocolate will pull water from a ganache. Once it does it gets dry and crumbly in texture, as themoisture enters the chocolate and forms syrup with the sugar. Look at how much moisture you're adding to the ganache.
tempering failed. You should do as many temper checks as necessary. You could add a "mother" to the chocolate and let it melt enough time so that the rest of the chocolate "behaves" properly
Hello Everyone...
Please I need urgent help....I tempered my chocolate (dark and mil chocolate), and all the process seemed to be fine, they came out nicely from the molds. The problem was that later when i tried them, the chocolate, not the ganache, was crumbly...what do you think the problem is??? could it be that the tempering process was not well done? ehat other reasons can make chocolate crumbly.
Thanx...
Can an enrobing machine cause air bubbles? or is it the chocolate itself? I only notice it slightly when any product goes through the machine. And it's always with milk chocolate, dark and whiteseem to work perfectly fine so common sense tells me its milk chocolate. I will add some cocoa butter today and see if this works.Meanwhile any thoughts?
On the web page (
http://www.finedarkchocolate.com/Chocolate/Luker_1906/Luker_1906_Tu... ) for "1906" Tumaco dark chocolate, the following two statements are made:
Minimum 53% cocoa content.
and
Luker 1906 Tumaco Extra Dark Chocolate 85%.
So is it 85% cocoa or "minimum 53% cocoa content"? And Just what does "Dark Chocolate 85%" mean?
Thank you.
How about a classier name, like ferrero rocher?......................
You are right... on all counts... I was just trying to sound fancy .
my colleagues and I tried to create a stable homemade spread and there was often separation even though no water was present , that's where the emulsifier idea started....
kind of loses something when it's Nutella though! I wish you had said Duo-Penotti :D
Ahhh....... may I guide you down the supermarket shelves to "Nutella"? A blend of oil, nut paste (including nut oil) cocoa and lotsa sugar. Smooth enough mouthfeel. This is probably where you can start your research.
Although, I have to split hairs with the definition of "emulsifaction". To the best of my knowledge, emulisifcation requires a fat phase and a water phase, and there is no water in oil and very little (under 1/2%) in chocolate.
But you are right, stick with natural ingredients and you can't go wrong.
cool.... because I will be shortly starting up in The USA and have a few clients lined up already. one of which runs a busy Mountain retreat rental co. I am to formulate a line of signature chocolates for their arrival baskets and although the turnover is fast they want a long shelf life.
My product will be mostly organic and fair trade , so the idea of preservatives is a difficult thing to get my head around.
I have been researching since this thread began and i found a company that produces organic antimicrobial preservatives .... all natural. I havent heard back from them but I'm very curious what they have to offer. Also i found that a moisture free emulsion of oil and chocolate would provide the 'mouthfeel' of real ganache without the water induced spoilage .... Gum acacia acts as a good emulsifier/stabiliser and is also a natural product. I would think the end result would be not dissimilar to a chocolate creme/paste/spread..... i will be experimenting .
Point taken about the comparison between honey and invert sugar. And yes, the point of a 6 months shelf life is so it can sit on the shelf. Thanks
It makes sense for those interested in this subject to continue the thread. You can certainly continue here. If you decide to start another thread on shelf life it would be a continuation of this dicsussion, so Paul I think that's your call. Which ever you decide, I am interested in your thoughts.
I use ghee in two of my pralines, I like it.
I don't use much glucose in my ganaches (I do in my caramels and Ital. nougat).
Invert sugar is quasi "natural" ( you can make it with regular sugar and baking soda as per Wybauw #2) but I don't bother--I use honey. It is a partial invert sugar and will provide shelf life--but it will crystalize after 2-3 mths.
However, longer shelf life, and packaging go hand-in-hand.
Yes, you can make bon-bons with a 6 mth shelf life and sell them to your client within a week of making them. But you can't brush off your hands and say "that's that".
Why does the customer want 6 mth shelf life?
So they can sit on a shelf.
What is the ambient temp of that shelf?
Foriegn odours?
Humidity?
A regular cardboard box won't offer much protection against these evils. Odours are the worst.
Why does all quality chocolate have some form of aluminum in the packaging? Welded seams? Shrink wrapping?
If the client stores the chocolates on a shelf above his esspresso machine, or beside his beverage cooler, he will be calling back in 3 mths to complain they they have melted--even when he knows darn well he shouldn't have--it doesn't hurt to ask, right? If he stores them in a dank, musty basement that smells like mould and wet cardboard, your product will take on this odour if you do not protect it.
You will need to invest just as much money and time in the packaging as you will for the product...
d.a.m.h.i.k.t. ................
Nick you are right. The challenge of earning a living may drive us to understand how to push the limits of what we do while staying true the artisan principles of our craft. I think it is a legitimate question.
On the other hand we know the bulk of the chocolate that will be sold on Valentines Day 2013 is being made now. So we know it is not fresh, and customers are buying it.
For me, if a customer asks for chocolate with a six month shelf life I know he/she doesn't expect it to be fresh. At this point it is a business decision. Is this your customer or not? It can be, it doesn't have to be.
What ever decision we make as entrepreneurs, it must be an informed one. That is why I appreciate this community. What I have learned on this one topic was worth the time it took to ask the question.
You're right, I can't wait to try the Ghee.
As usual, another informative and helpful discussion...
I'm sure we can all agree that, in an ideal world, we would only use fresh ingredients that gave a maximum shelf life of 2-3 weeks and our chocolates would be stored correctly by the customer and eaten within a few days. But once you start producing in any quantity this must surely be very limiting in terms of wastage, keeping on top of expiration dates and the risk of selling something that is no longer fit for consumption. I've played around with glucose and invert sugar which presumably raise the shelf life to somewhere around 6 weeks (a much more acceptable compromise v taste and texture) and, after all, these are natural sugars so shouldn't put customers off.
I'd like to know from those already in business - is there really anything wrong with using these sugars? Do customers really care, or even ask? As I say, I'd love to just use the freshest ingredients without messing about with recipes but I'd like to make this hobby into a business and I think a shelf life of closer to 6 weeks for the enrobed ganaches would give much more flexibility without really affecting in any noticeable way the taste, texture or perception of the customer.
I like the idea of using ghee as well. Has anyone actually tried this?
Hi Sadruddin,
To answer your question about sorbitol addition in ganaches, Ewald Notter mentions in his book that sorbitol should represent 5 to 7% of the total weight of the ganache. More will affect the taste of thte filling.
Hope this helps
Omar
I am in North Carolina. The laws in the US are strict. I think confections are limited to 5 by volume. At the same time it would be good to make to give to friends, etc. I took a class with Chef Wybauw where he make them. The information was on my lap top which got stolen. Does Chef Waybauw cover it in any of his books? It would be great if you could share the formula and method of production.
On the subject of ingredients, I have not yet started looking into the sourcing of ingredients. I am hopeful that I will be able to secure a reasonable amount to start testing. Perhaps I can purchase from someone that has some.
I appreciate the concept of preserving. As you've said, Ghee sounds interesting. I'll start researching that as well.
I think I'll start with a butter ganache, use an invert sugar and possibly the Ghee in replace of the butter and play with the flavorings trying to keep the water activity down. From there play with the Sorbital and other "Wierd" sugars.
Thanks again. I appreciate you help.
About 6 mths, maybe longer . Basically you make a syrup, add in the booze and pour into starch molds (typically bottle shaped or cigarette shaped). After about 24 hrs, you can take them out, brush off the starch and enrobe.
I'm curious as to where you are located and if you can get away with selling alcohol based confections in your area. And in some places, getting all those "wierd" items is almost impossible. Sorbitol (aka sorbex) is quite impossible to get in B.C., Canada unless I get it in enormous quantities, and the dosage of this is quite precise. Also, remember that many of the "Wierd" sugars are laxative if consumed in moderate quantity. And expensive....
In Wybauw's #2 he tells you how to make invert sugar; simple really, with just sugar and baking soda, but almost as simple is just using pure honey, which is a partially inverted sugar--but it will crystalize eventually.
Basically, shelf life is directly related to the water content (or more accurately water activity) of the item. Dark chocolate by itself has a shelf life of 2 years or even longer simply because it has almost no water in it. Sugar, if kept dry, can last for centuries.
More and more people are starting to realize that with medicine, "new" is not neccesarily better than "time tested".
Keeping that in mind, every nationality/race has age old methods of preserving food. Salting, smoking, sugaring, and drying are all popular--and have been for centuries. They all have in common the fact that water is removed. Raisins, for instance, have a shelf life of years, and have a m/c of about 10%. This is the "zone" where you will get your shelf life.
For me, I always look back, to what is time tested. For instance, the people of India have been using "ghee" for centuries, and one of the main reasons is that it keeps so well. What is "Ghee"? Butter, pure dairy (cow's) butter. But it is butter that has been transformed, it has the remaining 12-15% water removed, it is 100% pure fat, and because of this has a shelf life of well over a year. Time tested, for centuries.
l
I think the key word is here is "real ganache." Certainly there will be loss of quality as in flavor and mouthfeel the more sugars and stabilizers you add to the ganache over such extended periods of time.
The question is can you get a reasonable product with an extended shelf life. Maybe the line of what is called reasonable doesn't extend to six months. Maybe it is three, four months, let's see.
I have never used glycerine, sorbitol or some of the other life extending ingredients. With your help and the help of others in this thread I intend to see what can happen.
Can you tell me the shelf life of the crusted alcohol centers?
Thank you Edward
When formulating ganache recipies, you have to remember that even 60% alcohol contains 40% water, butter still contains 12-15% water.
I think the expression "having your cake and eating it too" applies here. You can't have a "good" ganache containing only cream, chocolate, and flavourings last for 6 mths. You must remember that a chocolate shell is still somewhat porous. Think of a wine bottle, a cork is a must as it allows the wine to "breathe", but unlike wine, ganache flavours do not improve with age. I feel this idea of a 6 mth shelf life for a cream ganache is looking for the Holy grail, it doesn't exist.
As per Wybauw youi can use the "weird" sugars, including glycerine and others for a long shelf life.
You can also use shelf stable fats like coconut fat as Lindt does with it's "Lindor balls" to replace cream/butter
You can vacuum pack and freeze "real" ganache bon-bons with the added bonus that frozen articles don't require an ISO 9002 certificate that many retailer demand. The trade off is an un-interrupted frozen transportation cycle.
You can use nuts, nut produts, (marzipan, nut pastes, gianduja, etc) caramel, nougat, pate de fruits, honey, sugar crusted alcohol centers etc. for a long shelf life.
But 6 mths shelf life for a "real" ganache?" I dunnooo.........
you are welcome Abdullah. glad if i could help.
cheers.
rene
No worries Rene
The community has been very helpful sharing information on this subject. I certainly have enough information to start testing some formulas. The information you've offered really does summarize the available knowledge on the subject.
Thank you
So Paul, how did the ganache come out?
dear Abdullah,
sorry i don't have formulas for you, but maybe you can find them in the internet like the other information. i only know what i learned thru practical work in chocolate and pastry school.
good luck.
rene
Hello Paul
This is very helpful. While 30% alcohol ganache would be a big hit, it may attract the wrong king of attention.
I understand the point about shrinkage. You often see the bottoms of bon bons curving in which is an example of your point.
The water ganache formula is interesting. Intuitively I would think there is too much water in the water ganache formula. Most of the established thinking indicates a reduction in water. So I am excited to try it. I will definitely the water ganache formula.
Thanks
Hello Rene
All good points. Certainly your summary included most of the information I've been able to find. My challenge is I've never worked with sorbitol. What is the relationship of the added sugars to the other ingredients and their affect on the ganache? Do you have formulas, or basic percentages I could use as a starting point to begin to develop some formulas for testing?
Thanks
Hello Paul
You are correct. The laws regarding alcohol are different in the US and other places. In the US the limit is 5%. This is certainly a way to extend shelf life although not enough to extend 6 months.
The water ganache sounds interesting. The challenge is to extend shelf life the water activity level of the ganache must be low. If you would be willing to share the formula it would be worth a test.
As you've indicated, it sounds like the formula would have to be adjusted to lower the aw with extra fat..,interesting proposition.
Thankyou
