Chocolate Spraying
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
JimI am interested in info in thatpneumatic spray gunJeremyJrushane@gmail.com
Forum Activity for @Jeremy Rushane
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
JimI am interested in info in thatpneumatic spray gunJeremyJrushane@gmail.com
Chocolate Spraying
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
We sell a small pneumatic spray gun with tank and a self cleaning nozzle that has a pin that goes in and out to clear the plug that inevitably develops.
I do not have the info set up as a link so if you want details pls send me your email address thanks.
Jim
updated by @Jim Greenberg: 09/11/15 09:44:34
Chocolate Spraying
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
The size of the pan does not affect the fall line but if you overload the pan that can be detrimental.
Go to 20C on the air, make sure that the air flow faces toward the side of the pan opposite the fall line and also be certain you have enough CFM.
Jim
Chocolate Spraying
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
Sooooo useful Guys! This is the blueprint for my new panning room! I'm getting quite excited about this!
Colin
Chocolate Spraying
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
Jim,
Thanks for that. Yes, I have a domestic fan blowing air through the pan. I have been experimenting with temperature and am mostly in the 17-29 C range although I had been advised to bring that up to make the product smoother and had gone to 22 C. That I find to be a problem so I am encouraged by your comments.
You mention the fall line and I am concerned that the size of my pan is so small that the fall is too small (less than 30cm (12 ins) so the air has little time to act on the chocolate. What do you think?
I may well take up your offer for advice in panning and am saving your email. Thanks so much. It is really hard to find experts in this area.
What a great forum! 
Colin
Clay - you make a great point about the temperature IN the pan. I will measure that as although the room is reasonably cool and the correct RH (which I battle with) I suspect that heat is coming from the back of the pan. I need to look at that.
Chocolate Spraying
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
I can answer any and all questions about panning, as we sell both new and used table top and commerical sized pans plus a full range of chocolate melting equipment. I also had my own panning company a few moons ago.
Send on specific questions and I will be happy to address machinery, procedural and supply questions.
Jim
Chocolate Spraying
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
Jim:
This is great advice and one of the things I think people overlook. Not only does the room need to be the right temperature but the airflow into the pan also needs to be considered to set the chocolate properly, keeping in mind that the chocolate does not actually need to be in temper for use in panning.
:: Clay
Chocolate Spraying
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
Colin:
www.storeitcold.com . And they offer free (slow) shipping to Australia!
I've known about these since early 2007 when I saw one working at Cotton Tree Lodge in Belize. The project I am working on now is the first time I get to use one in practice, I am taking a room down to 55F (13C) for crystallization and storage.
I am insulating the (new construction) room I am using with double layers of mylar/bubble/mylar building insulation with 100mm dead air space in between (standard stud walls).
Chocolate Spraying
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
Hi, Colin. Forgive me for asking, but are you using a fan to deliver cool air into the pan during the engrossing stage? If not, then you will never be able to control the process of coverage or drying. Double occur when excessive amounts of chocolate settle in the deadzone area which is the fall line of the cascading motion create once the chocolate is forst applied and coverage/drying begin.
If you are using a fan, then the problem may be that the air flow volume is too low - you need to have enough air to evacuate the volume of the pan everything 3-4 seconds and also the air must be in the range of 17-20C. Since the fan is drawing make up air from the room in which it sits, the humidity and temperature in your panning room should be 50% RH or so and 17-20C.
If you need more help just let me know at jim@unionmachinery.com
Thanks,
Jim
Chocolate Spraying
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
Well, there's a really useful bit of informastion! Suddenly I'm in the market for a "CoolBot" - which I had never heard of before!
Thanks for that!
Colin
Chocolate Spraying
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
does the spray head heat up on the electric spray gun? Compressed air moving through the head of a spray gun comes very close to freezing. Thisseizesthe chocolate making you use choice words and starts you looking over your shoulder to make sure no children are present.
I would love to have more info on that electric spray gun and the makeup of the parts....
SS?
Is the quality suitable for food????
Why doesn't the chocolate set up in the spray head?
Do you happen to have video or can you get some????
You might be on to some new way to save thousands if not hundreds if this is food grade and works.
Chocolate Spraying
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
clay...
one of the best ways to make money, is to save money you don't have to spend. I build my own cutting wheels for a fraction of the cost of purchasing new. I built my first pan capable of about 10 pound batches which mounts to the front of a kitchen aid mixer (that drive shaft is great). I got the idea from a guy who had built a taffy puller using a kitchen aid front drive . I built my second pan capable of 65-70 pounds from a cement mixer and a hand pounded Stainless drum from India. (Karol Baugh neighborhood in Delhi is a great place you can have anything you want built.) I built my web application which emails me when orders come in, tracks my inventory and manages my spending... my computer tells me what I have to make today so that I never run my shelves empty and my product is always fresh. (thank you .NET and Visual Studio for the tools to do that)((that was about a $8,000 web app at no more cost than my own time)).
My point.......
Earn more money buy spending less.
This is why I use a coolbot.
The cool bot is a great tool and with a properly insulated room it is cost efective to use them as a full time walk in fridge. A panning room doesn't even really need to be insulated because you are only running the ac for short bursts of time while you are in there.
I know people who have been tricking ac units using heaters hooked up to thermostats for years. The cool bot is just the same concept (less that $50 worth of parts from your local hardware store) wrapped up in a pretty package.
As for me.... I decided to go with the cool bot rather than tinkering around with parts. I spent the $300 and hooked the whole thing up in less than two hours. THAT INCLUDES....
-cutting a hole in the wall for the ac unit
-installing a new breaker in my panel and running 220 for the ac unit
-installing the ac unit
-hooking up the cool bot and watching the temp in my panning room fall FAST
if you wat to use it for cold storage, a little bit of advice....
INSULATE THE FLOOR! I have had friendscompletelyrebuild their cool rooms because they didn't properly insulate thefloor
Chocolate Spraying
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
Jeremy:
Did you use a CoolBot to be able to get the temperature of the room below the lowest set point of the air conditioner? I am using one on a project in New York right now. There are hugely cost effective.
:: Clay
Chocolate Spraying
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
Hi guys,i'm getting a panning machine to "test" in the next weeks and i would be in the same situation.I have a deep pastry back ground and i used to spray a lot of chocolate to decorate cakes.What about a simple spray gun? At my pastry lab we used to have a normal spray gun bought at the hardware store:electric and easy to use. also a air compressed air gun could work, no?If our testing machine works, and i like to do panning, i am looking into the Selmi one or a Rollermac, both italian and very cool looking at their specs.As soon as i get my machine i will also start to update my R&D on panninig!CheersAntonino
Chocolate Spraying
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
Hi Jeremy,
Sounds like a great idea!
We are thinking very much on the same lines. I pan in a converted bedroom with no special insulation. However I have been planning to line it in the same way as you describe with foam panels faced with aluminium or stainless steel sheet. Also want to tile the floor. I wondered how much difference it would make and now you have inspired me!
My pan is a unit that I purchased from China. It holds 15Kg, is variable speed and cost me US$2,000 including freight from Shanghai to Sydney. I had never even seen a pan before I bought so I was trying to keep price down to see how it went. Now I need to increase the pan size and I will probably purchase an enrober too.
I am amazed at the speed at which you can pan! I mostly do coffee beans but also raspberry jellies too. More recently I have been trying the freeze-dried starwberries too which you can see I am having issues with. The coffee beans and also the jellies have flat sides and these "double" horribly. It can take me three hours or so of careful attention to get to a point where the double reduce and then two to four hours beyond that before I have completed the panning process. So your timing is mind-boggling to me!
I THINK that part of my issue (in addition to the flat surfaces) is that the small pan does not let the product drop through the air for long enough. Also I am panning at no-where near the temperatures you speak of. So your comments give me much hope that I can do much better.
How did you modify your a/c unit to yield such low temperatures? That is a neat trick!
You ask about polishing. I have spent a bit of time on this. Someone told me that the "big guys" add talc at the end to induce polish. I managed to buy some but while searching I found reference to possible problems relating to cancer. It is very close to asbestos and that has been a major problem here in Australia. So I tossed that idea pretty quickly.
I leave the product to cool overnight. Then I add gum arabic in the form of Capol 5021 which I buy in 10 liter drums. I do this in three coast and leave it to polish dry in between. Then I finally seal against moisture and to a degree, heat, with Capol 425M (which I also buy in 10 liter drums). Capol 425M is shellac disolved in alcohol.
The polishing needs to be done in low humidity - I get to around 45RH. However it's also supposed to be quite cool - about 18 degrees C or less to yield the gloss. That can be hard to achieve and there is a real trade-off between temperature and humidity. I can discuss this with you if you'd like.
So, that is it from me so far. I am keen on an enrober for two reasons - one to pre-coat the freeze-dried strawberries and second to do the same with the raspberry jellies to make them more "round" for panning. In both cases it's a pre-coat although I might do more "chocolate stuff" just enrobing. Still considering my options there.
Incidentally I THINK that I have a rather neat answer to the spraying issue too but am still looking. Will need to share that with you via email if I can't find something better.
Colin
Chocolate Spraying
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
Colin...
I'm panning everything I can! I find it addicting and meditative. I have only worked with dried fruit and solid centers and I am not up against the problem you are facing with your fragile berries.
Like I said before.... I am hand pouring 30kg batches of nuts or dried fruits and my build up time takes a little under an hour. Its a slow start trying to keep from getting doubles. but I don't try to fix all the doubles. I have kind of decided that 5% doubles is to be excepted. The nice thing is that doubles are larger and will remain on top of the product so you can always spot them.
I built my own panning room which I like to work in at about 50f - 55f (10c - 12c) It is basically a walk inrefrigeratorand makes all the difference in build up time. I framed the walls andceilingand insulated them with High density foam panels (the same type you would find in a walk in fridge or freezer... installed this normal home grade AC Unit and tricked the AC unit into pushing its cooling power much lower thanadvertised. I can get my panning room to about 38f (3c) in about a 40 mins. (too cold to work in even in a down jacket).
Spraying would save me that hour of standing over the pan if I could hook a sprayer up to sprayintermittently.
I would like to start a discussion with you on polishing. Are you getting a brilliant shine every time? Are you using a glazing compound of some sort? I can polish to a brilliant shine but sometimes it takes the product HOURS in the pan to get that shine. I have also polished in less than 30 minutes a few times. I would like to put our brains together and see if I can get this dialed into a science.
-Jeremy
Chocolate Spraying
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
Jeremy - may I ask what you are panning and how long it is taking you for a 30Kg batch please? I ask as I really don't know how long it should take and I wonder if my getting a larger pan could be a great idea. I suspect that it takes about the same time to pan 50Kg as it does to pan 15Kg which is why my pan yields. Thanks!
Colin
Chocolate Spraying
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
Really pleased to Jeremy. Where are you located?
Colin
Chocolate Spraying
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
Colin...
let me know what you find out. I also am in the same situation. I am panning about 30kg batches using a 50kg chocolate melter and hand pouring all of it.
Jeremy
Chocolate Spraying
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
I have a small pan for panning chocolate covered coffee beans. Building up by pouring choccolate takes forever and is a vast waste of time. It is also something of an art as if I go too fast I get "doubles" (where the product joins together). If I go too slow the chocolate seems to "starve" and becomes porous. I can't do a "continuous pour" as I need to stop & start a lot so as to avoid both doubles and "starvation" so I basically have to stand there for some hours as I build up.
I think that spraying could be an answer. The system needs to hold a decent amount of chocolate (min 20 liters pref 70 liters), be held at the right temperature, not make too much mess when the chocolate is atomised and probably be able to be controlled in appropriate "spurts" to give time for the product to harden between coats. It must be easy to clean too as I use several types of chocolate including chilli which has to be well cleaned out.
I have looked around for a while but have only found systems that are both large and costly (around US$35,000) with lots of pipes coming in from holding tanks. I am seeking something in the US$6,000 range max that is simple and easy to use. Selmi have a brilliant system BUT it relies on electronics from their own pan which is very expensive (around US$24,000). Besides - I already have my own 15Kg output pan (which cost me less than US$2,000 delivered).
I am in Australia but am pleased to buy from anywhere.
Any thoughts would be really welcome!
Thanks!
Colin
updated by @Colin Green: 12/13/24 12:15:15
Mission small business program from chase bank and cocoatown
Posted in: Allow Me to Introduce Myself
Dear Friends,
I have a personal request to all of you. We have applied for Chase small business grant for our cocoatown business. Chase is giving $250,000 grants to selected businesses. This will help us grow our business and help more customers to grow their business in turn.
For qualifying for the grant, we need to get 250 votes by June 30 th , 2012. Please vote for cocoatown and encourage your friends to vote too. Log in at www.missionsmallbusiness.com (you can log in with facebook account) and type in cocoatown in the business name. The whole process takes less than a minute but it will bring big results for our small business. I thank you for taking time to read this and voting.
Andal Balu
updated by @Andal Balu: 04/13/15 07:58:53
Versatile Confectionery Kitchen Multi-Tasker
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
I use an electric blanket for the same purpose. $20.00 for the 'basic" model, "low", "med" and "high" settings. "med" works pretty good for around 34 C
Versatile Confectionery Kitchen Multi-Tasker
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
thanks for sharing Clay. Interesting!
Versatile Confectionery Kitchen Multi-Tasker
Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)
I am always interested in small, inexpensive multi-tasking tools for the home and professional confectionery kitchen. This is one I ran across the other day that I added to my shopping wish list.
For those of you with a Chocovision Rev 1 or 2 or ACMC, you know that the melting cycle of the tempering process can be quite lengthy. It's useful to pre-melt the chocolate before adding it to the bowl, but paying attention to process and getting it at the right temp at the right time can be time consuming.
That's where this little device - the Brd & Taylor Proofer - comes in handy.
Originally designed for proofing bread, it provides a small, portable, self-contained, temperature-controlled environment . Place a bowl of chocolate into the cavity (I read that a 5qt KitchenAid bowl fits handily), set the temp for 108-112F, and walk away.
It also works as a bread proofer (there's a water reservoir for humidity - when you're working with chocolate you obviously want it dry), plus you can use it as a yogurt maker. If you've got bottles of colored cocoa butter you want to keep melted at a precise temperature (that you can set) then this device will serve that purpose, too.
I can think of lots of places where I want to regulate temperature precisely (anywhere between 70 and 120F!) in an inexpensive portable device I can keep close at hand. For many people I can see this quickly becoming a kitchen staple.
updated by @Clay Gordon: 12/13/24 12:15:15
Manually Enrobing
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Edward,
Molded shell? This is getting outside of my knowledge. You mean that I MAKE the shell, fill it with chocolate, drop in the fruit and then pan?
Sounds like an interesting direction to take! The fruit can vary in size substantially. Some are quite small and others quite large and the chocolate layer should be as thin as possible both for economics and for enjoyment. Maybe the panning process will collapse the shell around the fruit a bit like heat shrink wrapping? You have me thinking!
Colin
Manually Enrobing
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
I mold a lot of chocolates. What about dropping the f.dried fruit into a molded shell, then panning it?
Manually Enrobing
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Hi Ramon,
Thanks for that. I am working with freeze-dried product so not a drop of water in the equation. Water makes chocolate seize so I avoid any sniff of it.
As you say the raspberries are made of many small pieces of fruit and as such are especially fragile.I do beleiev that and enrober will fix the proble as it is non-impact as opposed to a pan that bashes the heck out of the product.
Thanks for your thoughts
Colin
Manually Enrobing
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Colin,
As you know now, strawberries and raspberries...Two completely different animals!
They both will break apart, at different stages due to the water content. Raspberries are made of many little "capsules" holding juices. that is why you had better luck with strawberries (moremeaty). Have you tried dehydrating the fruits a little (not all the way), then working with them. I believe the more water you draw out of the fruit, the more stable and manageble they will become...
Good luck,
Manually Enrobing
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Thanks for the thought Jeremy. The moisture could be handled with appropriate filters. But the chocolate setting inside the spray head is a worry! I have researched spraying quite a bit and what is really needed as I understand it, is not so much a "spray" as a "stream" pushed out with compressed air. The spray itself, when it can work, is pretty messy and you geta chocolated coated room. However, that is second-hand and I am very much trying to learn.
In fact Selmi have a nice unit - but it runs on electronics that are buried in their pan which is not cost-justifyable for me.
Colin
Manually Enrobing
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
colin....
i tried a spray gun from the hardware store. I thought it was going to be a brilliant idea. The problem is that the spray head is not heated so the chocolate mixed with the cold air under pressure sets up inside the spray head.
Plus... when compressing the air, you are introducing much unwanted moisture.
Bottom line...
It doesn't work...
-Jeremy
Manually Enrobing
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Thinking it through the spray would not have much capacity hence choc thickness for a decent load and it would also cool quickly so the chocolate would lose temper. Not sure how vital the latter is given that I'll pan anyway where the chocolate tempers due to agitation. Just thoughs. The reversible pump/auger could be important if I am changing chocolate? Dark/Milk/White? I have a domestic power supply but there are devices that "make" 3 phase power if needed I am told.
Manually Enrobing
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
As you say, the option is inexpensive enough to try and discard if it doesn't work. I remember that the volume of chocolate can be regulated from very thin to relatively thick. Depending on what your needs it could take less than a minute per pan. That has to be faster (and less damaging) in volume than what you're doing now.
The FBM Prima comes with a reversible pump/auger as a standard feature. The reversible pump requires 3-phase power to operate. If you have single-phase power, the pump/auger only operates in the one direction. There is the option to make the pump/auger removable. This is not necessarily something you'd do every changeover, but it is a good part of maintenance.
Manually Enrobing
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Gee - you are an innovative man Clay! I wonder now if this could be my entry point. I believe that even if I can enrobe I will also need to pan to get that lovely round shape and thickness of chocolate. The spray option is cheap enough to try and discard if it's a problem. I have responded back to Giuseppe so let's see what he says.
I do wonder if there would be enough chocolate if I sprayed and if it would be a very slow process. Have to think on that!
You mentioned earlier about there being a reversal option on the Prima for an additional payment. Why would one want to reverse the process? Just so I understand!
Thanks again for your help
Colin
Manually Enrobing
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Colin:
I got the photo of the pieces you sent and I am waiting to hear back about whether or not they will fit. Some of the blueberries look like they might be a tad small. That said, an enrobing line is going to offer superior throughput over the modified panning you use when you consider that it's a two-step process (coat with tempered chocolate, then pan).
A quick Google search on "chocolate spray gun" returned this result from a US web site for Kerekes (bakedeco.com) for a device from Campbell Hausfeld for US$365. I've seen these in use in Europe so I am confident you can find them in 50Hz current suitable for Oz.
Manually Enrobing
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Thanks for the thought Edward. My pan is 15Kg (about 33lb) and although I have to do a deal less when doing the strawberries it's still about 8Kg - and indeed I want to buy a bigger pan to do a lot more. The pan at that size crashes the product down quite hard and it breaks and/or the chocolate breaks off and the product beneath starts to come away too. That is not the same issue on a very small pan.
I only temper the couverture to apply it to the first layer - the "quasi-enrobed" layer which is what I am trying to find a cure for. The final layer tempers itself with the movement of the chocoate - at least so I understand it. I'm learning REALLY fast!
I do like your thought on the a/c with the mask! I have tried that myself and I'm going to try again. Last time I didn't have a large enough pipe and the air didn't get through and it was not cold enough either (rated at 18 degrees C although it gets colder than that).
Now I am battling relative humidity too which seems to be a trade-off between temperature and R/H. Aaaahhhhh!!!! Needs to be low to get a decent polish on the panned product. I mention this as where I live the humidty is too high to take it into the hallway.
You are clearly an innovative person! Love your thinking!
Thanks for your help
Colin
Manually Enrobing
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
What about spraying the fruit with choc/c.butter via an airgun to get a good coating on it, then panning it?
I have the D+R panning jobbie (K.Aid attachment) That I use all the time. I have a cheap air conditioner that I have rigged up with a "mask" and 4" dryer hose. I direct a stream of a/c air into the machine and have very short panning times. In the winter, I wheel the mixer+panning pan into the commercial hallway of my bldg, which is usually around +10-+15 celc. during the winter months.
The couverture doesn't need to be tempered, I keep mine in a large squeeze bottle in a pan of warm water, one good squirt every few minutes.........
Manually Enrobing
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Hi Clay,
You have emailed me too but I'll comment here in case it helps others too.
I think that the strawberries and raspberries will be OK on a belt - they are large enough but I will measure and respond.
You HAVE hit a nerve on the spraying process too as I'd like to be able to spray into my coating pan. But spraying units seem to be about $35,000! Is there a (MUCH) less costly way to you know?
Now you have me thinking about paint sraying systems from the hardware store. Wonder if that would work? Any thoughts please?
Thanks!
Colin
Manually Enrobing
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Colin:
It seems like the problem is to cover the fragile product with enough chocolate so that it survives the panning process. I don't know that it's possible to put the product on a conventional enrobing belt as the product seems like it would be so small it would fall through the belt.
I wonder if spraying chocolate will work?
You can spread the product to be covered on a sheet pan (shake), and then spray and coat. When the chocolate is set (moments), you can use a spatula to loosen the items from the tray and turn them over. Repeat the spraying/turning process until coated enough to withstand panning.
Manually Enrobing
Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques
Does anyone have thoughts on "manually enrobing" product please?
I am panning freeze dried strawberries and I'd like to do raspberries and too and they are very fragile. Simply panning does not work - the fruit breaks up and it's a mess.
I have made a batch of the strawberries and they are sensational and I'd like to do the raspberries too. The way I did the strawberries was to temper some milk chocolate and pour the chocolate through the fruit while mixing it around. Then placing it all on trays. Then I pan the resultant product when the chocolate is hard. The "enrobing" takes AGES to do and is not really commercially viable (I sell it in markets). Also if I leave a spot "unenrobed" that breaks apart in the pan - messy messy.
The above does not work for the raspberries as they are even more fragile.
So I'd like to enrobe - but the eqipment is really costly (I have asked about machines in another forum so maybe I'll get some guideance there too).
So I am wondering if there is a better way that someone might know of please?
Thanks Guyz 'n Girlz!
Colin
updated by @Colin Green: 04/11/25 09:27:36
What is a good, small enrober to buy?
Posted in: Opinion
So cool to hear Antonino! I too am considering three phase. I'm planning to use a three phase converter which plugs into single phase.
I'll be watching out for your post. Good luck with it all!
Colin
updated by @Colin Green: 01/24/15 08:13:43