Forum Activity for @Shalini Latour

great idea I will look into it! Thank you.

Looks great!

I have a local printer print and cut them for me, then yes i use glue. I started with printing and cutting myself but that got old fast.

Hi,

So what is it you want to know? This is my product stand for my company - I know it needs a bit of work but we have only been going for a month.

Hi again Shalini, you print these wrappers yourself? That is what I am asking, you print yourself? Or do you have it printed by a commercial source?

I make mine by using light weight photo paper, cut them, and glue them on. Is this what you do ?

Thanks again,

Mack

I just made it up! No company to share with you. I am sorry.

Hi Meira,

I too am curious about the paper sleeve (wrapper) on your bars.

Can you tell us who makes them and perhaps costs?

I currently make my own wrappers by hand, but am looking for a commercial source.

Thank you!

Mack

I would Just have a search on Alibaba for export cartoons as I think thats what you mean as opposed to product stands. Then when you have found a factory get it customized.

That is really cool, it's similar to what my company use. Have you considered putting stamps covering more of the wood, saying things like, High cocoa content, fairtrade etc It could help it stand out even more.

Hello Shalini,

I'm a real newby and just trying to get going. Your display looked great and is something I can easily make, I make displays for my coffee now. My question is how you do the rest of your packaging? It appears as though maybe foil with a paper sleeve? Is this something you came up with or is there a company that makes these components. I guess I would need to know the mold necessary too. I currently only have a 1 oz mold.

Hi Meira

I currently wooden display cases. I fix up wooden CD case and just stamp my company name on them. I like them because they last and there is less waste. I am attaching the picture. But as increase distribution I am getting requests for the cardboard display boxes too. Did you have any luck finding a company to make them? I would love leads!

Thanks for sharing this - that seems like a great solution!!! We still haven't found a perfect solution, I am still searching. We have called a few companies to see if we can get point of purchase boxes made for a reasonable price. We have also started to seek out already made options - from cleardisplays.com, from cardboarddisplays.com. But so far, haven't found anything that really works for our bars. If anyone else has any suggestions, let us know!! Nice to know I am not the only one with this problem.

Hi Meira, i just spot your question , Im currently on the same situation. I will try to implement a kind of gourmet chocolate bar and will try for a second time to distribute ( 1st time truffles) and has always though how to get gourmet branding competing in a candy store. Kind of difficult.

So i came with a solution , buy some acrylic display and made a custom designed for it. I attached the idea .

I will like to know to what type of businness are you distributing currently and how everything is going so far.

Hi everyone,

We are a small chocolate company based out of DC - we are looking for ideas on displaying our bars. We have a few stores who have improvised displays of our bars - in baskets, or in tea type boxes, or on risers, but now some new stores selling our bars are asking us to find display options. Does anyone have any suggestions? Also, does anyone know where to get boxes made to house bars as they do in bigger stores - like a box that holds 10 quantity where the front rips off and can be used as a display? If so, any idea on cost?

Thanks so much,
Meira

Recipe creation is relatively easy - do you have the appropriate equipment to grind, mix, and emulsify the ingredients?

Remember that many things occur during conching - only one of which is flavor modification. Flavor modification during conching is less relevant for compounds; however remember one of the other really important things that occurs during conching is moisture removal and emulsification - both of which are quite relevant for compounds.

Also, keep in mind that some of the oils used in compounds still may require a thermal handling step of some sort - which may or may not closely mimic the tempering profile of cocoa butter. CBE's (cocoa butter equivilants) will behave very similarly to cocoa butter, and thus require very similar tempering profiles. Some CBR's (replacers) may require a warming/cooling protocol to properly demould; whereas some fats simply need to be cooled to solidification, and some of they may require the use of a seeding agent to achieve the proper shrinkage to facilitate demolding. the details of these should be talked through with your specific oil supplier to ensure you're selecting the appropriate oil base for your needs or constraints.

If you've got specific fats that your using or evaluating, alternatively, posting the technical details of them here may result in us being able to appropriately direct handling instructions.

interesting.. I use compound chocolate quite a bit for a particular product line I sell, I buy merckens but would not mind getting into making my own, i've been looking for a recipe for a long time but i was unable to find anything, i would love to find more info and some recipes to start exploring, anyone can point me in the right direction ?

Hi Clay,

I'm looking into about producing ~= 50kg/day of coumpound chocolates.

with what I've research so far your insights makes sense in terms of what i'm looking for.

In the compound chocolate .. So you're saying that conche doesn't do anything even with improving /developing a better flavor ? Also I've read some people that does store the chocolate produced and store it for a couple of days > to 5 days (example) to develop a better flavor and then melt and mould it.. will this applies to compound chocolates?

Yes I'm planning to used alkalized (dutch) powder for my production.

I though even if it's compund you still need to temper so that it will be better for moulding and de-moulding process. it will release from the mould better or it doesn't matter ?

Thanks alot.

Peter -

You want to make compound?

And when you say small-scale, what quantity of production are you talking about per day/week/month?

The basic technique of mixing cocoa powder, sugar, and fat together and refining it should be able to be done in a "universal" or wet grinder. (The 3-in-1 you refer to.) You don't need to (and probably can't) conche, so you may want to consider using alkalized (Dutch processed) cocoa powder.

As for tempering, you don't need to as the CBEs and CBRs are solid at room temperature. You just need to keep it melted, put it into a mold, and cool. No tempering required. You can do this manually or get a melter/depositor to speed things up. Once the molds are cooled, de-molding is the same as with chocolate, turn over and bang against a surface until the bars release.

:: Clay

I would like to know if anybody in the forum has knowledge in the solid bar production (small scale) and what process and equipment that they are using today.

raw materials (cocoa powder, powdered sugar, cocoa butter substitute, etc,etc) -> chocolate bar.

What machine/process for the following:

1. refiner/conche (3-in-1) or other machines?

2. tempering/mould (manual or semi-automatic)

3. de-moulding process ?

Suggestion and opinions are welcome:

Note: I'm newbie and wanting to learn from others.

Thank you very much.

Peter

Thank you Clay,

Your advice has been a big help. We will look into the cacao production process in more depth and request a plate test. We'll also test drive potential tempering machines to see if they work effectively with our low temperatures.

Nikki.

Thanks for posting your paper.

I am curious about how temperatures above the melting point of the cocoa butter factor in. For 'simple' compounds, once you have heated the material above the melting point there can be no solid phase left. If you have water above 0C with ice floating in it, then the ice itself is still at 0C and time delay for its melting is due to the limits of thermal conductivity.

If I have a stirred fluid bath of chocolate at say 100F, with no macroscopic chunks, then can crystals of cocoa butter still be present? (This is not a rhetorical question; I've been assuming not, but realize that I don't know...I know that the crystallization seems to take time _after_ the chocolate has cooled to the required temperature, so I could imagine that after the chocolate has been heated there is a time delay before crystalline order is lost.)

If chocolate is not heated enough to fully dissolve all of the crystals, then is the only risk one of overtempering? Or can you get the wrong crystal forms?

Thanks again.

Jon

Here in the US among the raw chocolate makers I have worked with, 47.7C (118F) is the accepted max temperature. It's important to note that there are no definitions written into food law - anywhere in the world that I am aware of - that set a standard for what raw is and raw isn't. It's also not clear (to me) that it's a single temperature. Lettuces are far more delicate than nuts and probably shouldn't be subject to anything over 40C for any length of time.

Where are you getting the butter and powder from? Have you personally inspected the production processes? Can you guarantee that the butter and powder are never subjected to temps above 42C? How about the temps of the fermentation pile? They naturally want to get to 50-52C to do the best fermentation. Drying? In full sun the temps on the drying pad can easily reach 60C.

What I (and others) think you need to be more worried about is the microbial load because there has been no kill step (this is one aspect of roasting). Make sure you do a plate test!

On the continuous tempering machine front:

FBM machines from the Prima (7kg working bowl and a list price of under 7,000) on up can handle 3mm inclusions and all machines with working bowls under 45kg come with a vibrating table, measured depositor, and a removable and reversible auger as standard equipment. The FBM Compatta has a 12kg working bowl with the same standard features as the Prima and has a list price of under 10,000 before a ChocolateLife member discount of 10%. (Not including shipping from Italy and any local customs fees).

Jonathan:

The majority of continuous tempering machines employ 2 temperatures. They do not cool below a certain point and then warm slightly. There are some 3-zone machines.

I have attached five pages from a draft of a manual I am working on for FBM that describes how continuous tempering works in their machines. It makes reference to specific FBM products so that might be a little confusing to people who don't know the product line. In general the process is the same for all of the continuous tempering machines in this class. This is just a draft and just a few of the pages, and in reading through it I can see several typos and things I want to change that aren't as clear as they need to be.

The scraping of the auger against the interior of the tempering pipe provides the mixing force, so there is agitation. FBM's auger geometry is designed to maximize crystal formation and mixing; the geometry of the augers in other systems don't appear - to me - to be as well designed.

As for the temperature differential thing part of it has to do with the amount of time the process takes. In a Chocovision machine, for example, it might take 30 minutes for the chocolate to cool from 115F to 89F. That's a lot of time for crystal formation. In a continuous tempering machine like the ones from FBM the process happens in well under 20 seconds. In the larger FBM machines (the Unica for example) you can control the speed of the auger which means you can increase the dwell time in the tempering pipe and this allows you to work colder - there's more time for proper crystal formation and, importantly, spreading the crystals through the chocolate.

In my experience the temperatures you need to melt the chocolate to are in the 45-50C range (max 122F). There are some chocolates that need to be heated up much higher and some that don't need to be heated up as much. It all depends on the physical properties of the chocolate. The chocolate is going to dictate the temperatures.

Clay,

Could you please expand on the point about "...as they work on the difference between a melting temperature and a working temperature. If your max working temp is 42C then you might not have enough temperature differential to form crystals...."

Do these machines not 'subcool' the chocolate to trigger crystal formation and then heat back to working temperature? Or do they simply depend upon the temperature difference between the melt and the working temperature? Could agitation be added to the auger to trigger morecrystallization?

I have a similar interest in low temperature operations, not from a 'raw' perspective, but from a kosher perspective. If you keep your equipment below a certain temperature (which varies by supervision authority, in the range of 108-120F) then kosher supervision becomes easier because you are no longer considered to be 'cooking'.

Thanks

Jon

Hello Clay,

Thank you for your detailed reply to our cry for help. Much appreciated.

We're working with 42C as the max working temperature as this is the guide we have been given by the raw chocolate experts we have learned the craft of raw chocolate making from. People like Amy Levin (ooosha.co.uk).

We have now grasped how a continuous-tempering machine works - thanks to a chat yesterday with the importer of Selmi in Australia. As we understand it, we would continue to work with a melting tank, adding 10kg of melted chocolate at 42C to the Selmi hopper to begin the tempering process, topping up as needed through the day.

The importer tells me there is an Australian raw chocolate maker working with the Selmi, but we don't know what max temperature they are working with. I will ask. Thank you for that advice.

On the inclusions front, after learning a little about the tempering devices,we have accepted that we will probably need to 'sprinkle' the bits like nuts and cacao nibs (they are under 3mm but the Selmi which can accommodate inclusions is the New Plus X which, at A$25,000, is beyond our budget). That's OK as the vibrating table will ensure the inclusions sink into the chocolate - whereas hand-banging the moulds (as we do at present) doesn't sink them in sufficiently.

If we find we need to stay under 42C to qualify as truly 'raw' chocolate by European and Australian standards, what would be your suggested method to automate or at least semi-automate the tempering process? We can only stone-temper so much by hand in a day! As we make the couverture from raw cacao butter and raw cacao powder a process that relies on the seeding method isn't really an option for us.

Thanks a million for sharing your knowledge and expertise with us.

Nikki -

First off, why 42C? Most of the people I know who are working in the raw world here in the US use 47C (118F) as the max temperature. 42 is only 107F and that may not be high enough to thoroughly (and quickly) melt out crystals that have been formed in the couverture you are using (even if it is untempered).

Continuous tempering machines (Selmi, FBM) may not be the right answer for you as they work on the difference between a melting temperature and a working temperature. If your max working temp is 42C then you might not have enough temperature differential to form crystals - especially if the room you're working in is about 20-22C. I would certainly run tests through a Color to make sure before buying one.

You are also mistaken about the way continuous temperers operate - they do not work in batches. The hourly throughput of a continuous tempering machine is between 3-5x the bowl capacity, assuming that you can keep the working bowl "topped up" as you work. Thus, a 10kg machine is capable of producing 30-50kg of tempered chocolate per hour, not 30kg per day.

From experience, I can tell you that most continuous tempering machines are very bad at working with chocolate that has a higher viscosity than commercial couverture chocolate. This is because of the geometry of the auger in the tempering pipe. If the auger has a thin core and wide wings then it's going to be even more difficult to temper the chocolate properly - you will get uneven crystallization and it will be difficult to keep the tempering cycle intact during the working day especially when you are using the depositor. I've been working with FBM to address some of these issues for bean-to-bar chocolate makers and it took us a while to come up with the changes to the basic machines to make it work (it helps - a lot - if you can adjust the speed of the auger).

As for inclusions. The limit for continuous tempering machines (Selmi, FBM, whoever) is going to be pieces that are no more than 3-4mm in their widest point, and somewhere between 10-25% by weight. If you need larger pieces than this, or more pieces by weight, you're going to need to find another technique to fill the molds as the depositor is likely to clog easily.

Hello :)

We are a small handmade raw chocolate business ( www.liefje.com.au )in Melbourne Australia,looking to transition from tank melting and stone-top tempering by hand to fully automated or semi-automated tempering.

We make slim 55gram bars of couverture raw chocolate in polycarbonate moulds. On the tempering front the 'raw' part just means we need to remain under 42 degrees celsius at all times, which is probably just a matter of setting the temperature on any device (?).

Looking through past forums we found Clay's detailed advice to Stu Jordan which led us to the Selmi One as an option. The capacity is small at 10kg, but it appears we could temper 3 batches in one day, which would be ample and the built in volumetric dispenser and vibrating table would be ideal.

The challenge for us is that we're making bars with nut chips and cacao nibs mixed into the chocolate itself (think Toblerone-style but beautiful ingredients). Is there a tempering machine that can accommodate 'bits'?

We're baby artisans finding we need to increase capacity to meet demand. Any/all advice would be very welcome.

Thank you,

Nikki.

Hello Chocolate Life !

I'm getting close to that moment that many of you on here may have been at: Launching! After months of development we are almost ready to launch. One thing we are still looking for is a manufacturer or in other words a co-packer.

Information for manufacturer/ co-packer:

• Company:we are a start-up
• Product: is chocolate truffles with ganaches. There are 3 flavors only.
• Batch sizes: about 20 - 30 pounds per week (this is starting off)
• Packaging: we can help with the packaging if necessary or the manufacturer can package it for us
• Location: New Jersey and New York City area
• Storage and Distribution: The manufacture needs to store the product for us. We will pick up the product and distribute ourselves.
• We are 100% done with our recipe. The manufacturer does not need to help with development. We will simply provide the final recipe.

Can anyone recommend a manufacturer that fits our needs?

Thank you : )

I'm not sure what the best way to transport chocolate is, but what if you gathered two sets of your chocolates. Set 1. Finished chocolates with that 'showroom finish'.

Set 2. Finished, but unmolded chocolates to be unmolded when you arrive. Leaving the chocolates in the molds will keep them from bumping and getting fingerprinted.

Having the two sets should allow you to select from the best of either.

Thanks,

Larry

My experience has been that no matter how careful you are, there will always be imperfections. That is what photoshop is for:)

Hi everyone

Hoping for some tips and ideas on how to transport my Easter chocolates.

I'm having some professional shots done for my website and the photographer advised that chocolate will show up dust spots and any other marks really easily in photography. I'm going to need to pack my easter range and transport it in the car about 1.5 hr drive.

Has anyone done this before? What do you recommend to wrap/pack the chocolate in?

Thanks in advance!

Lisa

The count is the number of pieces per pound (or kilo - depending on where the manufacturer is located).

1000 count per kilo means that each piece weighs 1 gr. 1000 count per pound means each piece weighs .454 gr.

That makes two of us brother 8-)

Well stated. I certainly can't disagree with that.

In 20 years I'm hoping the conversation starts with "Hey Sebastian, am I flying you and your family out for Christmas again this year? I've got a great view of Lake Louise from my new Chalet. I've reserved the whole west wingand my personal chef for you!"

haha!

! , - , . , , , 8-)

! ! ! "" . ( ), " " () , "" 2011-2012 . 2008-2009 "". - . 1991 .

Lets think of chocolate making as being similar to college degrees.

One can get an awful lot of learnings from a 4 year bachelors degree, and be able to apply that knowledge successfully.

By the time one has enough time & experience into it to have a PhD, some of the learnings that were appropriate at the bachelors level have expanded into a different perspective - the expansion of perspective that accompanies experience over time is a powerful vantage point. My strong suspicion is that if you keep on the trajectory that you have been on, the conversation we'll have 20 years from now will be very different 8-)

Sebastian;

You are valid up to a point. Yes, selection of the right tool for the job is important, and yes, sometimes the right tool is significantly more expensive up front. 5 times more expensive? Well.... I have a hard time rationalizing that one - especially when a businessisin that painful cash-crunching start up phase.

I remember 6 years ago asking you about the small MacIntyre conche/refiners, and then asking you about the ones I purchased. I told you what I was about to pay, and your answer was this: "The basic design of the machines is very simple, and given that you can buy 5 for the price of one MacIntyre, even if you have to buy 2 or three for the life of one MacIntyre you are still saving thousands of dollars."

Now, you have personally tasted my chocolate, and as someone who's very well respected in the chocolate community, aside from the criticism that I use too much cocoa butter in my 70% bars,you were very impressed with what I make using the inexpensive machines I purchased.

When it comes to posting online, there are some things I am happy to share, and some things I don't feel comfortable spoon feeding to people. I had to do a lot of homework to research equipment necessary start my business and I took significant risk with my own money. It is for this reason I'm reluctant to hand over the name of the company that I made my purchase from.

However, what I AM willing to tell you in the spirit of (partial) transparency is that in the past 5 years, I have hadFOUR 45 litre conche refiners working 24/7 making the chocolate my stores use. Aside fromthe replacement of some rear shaft seals (wear items) after two years of use, the $7,000 I paid for each machine has been repaid in spades - producing over $1.5 Million retailworth of chocolate.

So to all of you budding entrepreneurs wanting to start your own bean to bar chocolate company, I can tell you from PERSONAL experience that with a little online research you can save yourself approximately $20,000 PER MACHINE. In fact I am currently in discussion with a company to become the exclusive North American dealer of such equipment.

In conclusion, there is a time and place for almost everything except for being ripped off, and I'm sorry but $20,000 for a small, inefficient stone mill? To me that's a rip off.

- , , . , saleman !

What you're seeing here is the difference between an industrial piece of equipment, and a non-industrial piece. Yes the entry price point is higher; however the tolerances, variability and wear/tear will all be significantly improved vs some of the far less expensive alternatives. As with any tool in your toolbox, selection of the right tool for the right job is critical. There's a place for all the tools to one degree or another - my suspicion is that over time, some of you will discover some of the less expensive tools may find it challenging to standup to constant usage over time, and while they were appropriate for the business at it's inception, as your businesses grows they may no longer be the right tool any longer..

Dear Paul, thank you for your message.