Forum Activity for @Clay

There are no cheap/good cocoa butter presses available that I am aware of. What I can see from a quick look is that there are a lot more options than the last time I looked.

One thing: colloid mills are the wrong tech for this.

This  is a home machine. It might work, but I don't think it's going to get you to the level of production you need and I would expect it to fail pretty quickly as it's not designed fot he kind of duty cycle you suggest.

You will need to spend at least a couple of thousand dollars and then expect to inspect the electrics, replace motors and hydraulics, etc if not right away then quite soon. An expeller press might be a better choice than a hydraulic press at anything under $3-4kg.

You can make your own but in the end I don't know how much $$ you'd be saving. You need a support structure, the hydraulic press, and to machine the pot and the parts. It can be done and has.

Keep in mind that the yields you can expect are on the order of ~250-300gr per kilo of liquor and that's highly dependent on the fat content of the beans, the pressure you can exert, and the length of time of each cycle. If you're getting 1/2kg of butter per kilo of liquor and the cycle time is 30 minutes and the pot size is 2kg, it's going to take a while to get the amount you're looking for.

That should lead to more fluid chocolate, right?

Will do. Thanks again Clay!

Just make sure to confirm the software that's running on that 5-pan oven. Make sure that it has the same control over humidity, the same level of programmability, etc. I am not entirely certain of the software differences between the machines and it's the Mind.Maps machines I was writing about specifically.

Hello,

I would like to purchase a small footprint cacao butter press for the purpose to maintain a single origin couverture and to produce artisan cacao butter from the any bean I work with. This for a small scale production not exceeding 25 lbs per day.

The machine must be sanitary and be costructed with stainless steel in all area that touches food (cacao liquor or nibs)

Is there any machines in the market today for this kind of production without paying high prices like Cacao Cuicina (25-30K) or Do I need to custom build this kind of machinery?

Does anyone or anyone you know has built/own a butter press machine or have any experience with this? Any suggestions where to start?

I saw in previous threads a butter press from China (Alibaba.com) with prices as low as  $200, I am not sure how well those work? I am concerned about the amount of heat during the press and its impact on the flavor and the color of the butter (brown, creamy ... etc.)

Hi,

I'd like to offer that I currently make a chocolate bar from raw organic cacao paste and butter in Canada. My cacao comes from peru from a supplier in canada called Advantage Health Matters. Our weak Canadian dollar right now may make it cost effective for you to order from them.

As for the definition of raw when it comes to cacao. I don't know if science has found a true difference in health benefits of raw vs roasted however I notice a huge difference in the way raw cacao makes me feel. If I eat 20g of raw cacao I notice a slight buzz and if I eat 50g of it I feel pretty high off it.  I've tried most raw chocolate bars on the market here and most don't give me this feeling so I assume they aren't really using truly raw cacao. A few brands do give me this feeling so I equate the quality of raw chocolate to if it gives me that high from eating it. If it doesn't then its probably not raw. Maybe the temperature has gone over a certain point but if it still makes you high then it probably hasn't crossed any important thresholds.

Hi Clay, Thanks for your valuable advice. After reviewing the options I am more convinced to go with the Unox option. The controls that the Unox unit have are way more superior than any other options in the same price range, not to mention the roasting capcity and the additional usage like roasting nuts and many other things. I've check the price of the 6 full size pan and the price is around 10K (It is kind of stretching my budget); however, there is a smaller oven from the same series which come with 5 hotel pans (12"x20") and it price right under 6K (still can roast larger batches than any other options within the same price range) which I am thinking to purchase next week via the local restaurant supply store here in Houston.

http://usa.unox.com/en/cheftop_gn_1-1_305e

Pre-refining will likely give you a tighter PSD.

If I was going to go with a belt feed, I'd probably get one of those toasters / pizza ovens with a conveyor belt. I would use the searzall manually to find out if nib roasting helps improve my chocolate's quality - unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a consensus on that question

To get back to Arcelia's motivation though - besides adding cocoa butter, my biggest gain for fluidity has been getting a micrometer, which got me to realize I was under-refining. I did have some sticky, over-refined chocolate (hard with a premier but possible with a MacIntyre style conche) and that got me thinking about particle size distribution. Maybe if I pre-refined I'd have a more consistent size distribution, as chocolate spends less time in the refiner.

Arcelia, I'd love to hear about your setup and what other avenues you've tried. Is your grinding area very humid?

Interseting - i've never seen a searzall - now i want one.  The heart wants what the heart wants.

It'd probably work.  I'd urge you to set it at a fixed height above and below the beans, and belt feed the beans through.  You'll need to do some trialing and error attempts to identify the correct height and residence time of the beans to get the moisture to flash out w/o roasting the beans.  But i suspect it's doable.

How hot should we go to get the shell adequately dried off?

On the more extreme end of accessible short-time, high-temperature options are propane torches, maybe with attachments like the Searzall. I'd love to know if anyone has tried this.

James -

You might want to look into the  Pushbox from HCS Hamburg. It was created to replace jute bags for shipping and is a box version of Grainpro bags. They use suction and heat sealing as a part of their process and claim that you can get more cocoa on a pallet than when using bags. Plus, because it's environmentally contained it might be possible to consolidate.

280 polycarbonate molds for sale

Mold size is: 27.5 cm  x 13.5 cm

Selling for $8/ mold. If interested email: miles@perfectfuel.com

Only the premier wonders are left.

While i go about making friends with a bar manager for some access and help with using CO2, i wonder if anyone has maybe used an oxygen absorber pack instead?

Looks like the idea would be to store the beans in an airtight storage container, or a grain pro bag (as earlier mentioned) and put one of these oxygen absorber packs inside. This then supposedly absorbs all remaining oxygen. I assume this would take longer than using the CO2 method, but would it eventually have the same results without having to use CO2?

Alternatively i also read about creating an actual suction chamber, similar to those bag things that you store duvets in etc and then remove the air with a vacuum cleaner. Any thoughts on whether that method could also yield good results?

Thanks for spelling it out nicely, Clay.

If you want to go the Unox way, then you want the smallest unit Unox makes (options  here ). I don't have pricing on the six-pan oven, but the 10-pan oven is more than $10k. (Contact Unox for the nearest dealer.) Batch size is anywhere from 1-2kg/pan, so the throughput is what you say you want. Results will be the same whether you've got one pan in the oven or six, which makes developing roasting profiles easier. There is no cooling option, but you can make one by strapping a box fan to a speed rack.

There is a small and inexpensive (under $5k not including shipping - UL listed and NSF certified) fluid-bed roaster from a company called Coffee Crafters . (Suitable for beans, not for nib.) A ChocolateLife member has one and says that they roast over oneMT/month on this machine. The drawback is that you need to pay attention and adjust the loft during roasting. However, you can do multiple batches/hr.

A distributor by the name of Mill City Roasters offers a 1kg electric drum roaster (up to 30kg and larger in gas) for $4000. You'd have to connect with the company to make sure the throat is large enough for cocoa beans. But it has all the basics needed for cocoa - variable speed drum and fan for air, cooling, etc. There is no water injection that I know of. USB thermocouple means you can monitor roasts and save profiles to a (Windows) computer using open-source software.

The Unox is a good option if you also want to bake or roast things other than cocoa (e.g., nuts), and it also works as a dehydrator. This is the most programmable and versatile unit, hands-down, with the added features of humidity control (microbial kill step) and self-cleaning. A cool-down option is something they've considered - and it's a software upgrade. If it were me, this is the way I would go unless I also wanted to roast coffee. But that's because I would want to bake, roast nuts, and dehydrate in it.

The Coffee Crafters machine is inexpensive for the throughput, but it needs to be watched during roasting. It's an option if you also want to roast coffee.

The Mill City machine is a traditional drum roaster. It has the advantage of being slightly cheaper than the Coffee Crafters machine -- the capacity is not as great -- but you can run it basically unattended once you figure out the roast profile whereas you need to monitor the Coffee Crafters machine.

BTW - I have no deals in place with any of these companies so mentioning my name and/or TheChocolateLife won't get you a discount. However, I'd appreciate the referral going forward.

Cheers, Vanessa! Looking forward to your contributions

Hi Clay, I am looking for an immediate purchase of a compact/single phase elect. (no gas) roaster (5 to 10 lbs Batches at time is fine) programable/easy/simple to maitain and operate. I like the idea of the Combi-Oven/UNOX unit your recommeded in this thread (I am assuming I do not need to purchase a separate cooling tray with the UNOX, correct?)

Which specific model/size of UNOX do you recommend for 5-10lbs? Any idea how much it cost? Do you prefer it over a Drum roaster? (I currently have 3 Behmor 1600s and I am happy with the roasting results; but the batch is too small and I need to upgrade/consolidate to a bigger unit) 

Thanks!

Welcome!  I've got two bresaola's that just hit target weight this week, into the cold smoker they go!

Getting back into the forums after a long time lurking. Been a member for a couple of years but am compelled to be more active. Recently relocated to the Bay Area and am looking for other fine chocolate enthusiasts to connect with. 

My new fascination: Fermentation. It falls in line with my other loves (cheese, wine, salumi, whiskey). By day I preach pork for a salumi artisan in Marketing. When I can I am continuing my chocolate education. 

Excited to explore!
Cheers,

Vanessa

No need for disclaimers 8-)  your opinion is just as valid as anyone elses!  I always like hearing the perspective of folks as to what's important to them, and what their thought processes are regarding their informed perspective.   Thanks for sharing yours!

Hi Sebastian,

I need to add first that this is my opinion only and applies to batch roasting process on smaller side of batch up to 300kg. Continuous roasting processes are completely different ball game.

Opinion based partly on experience (we use a Sirocco), partly on engineering knowledge and partly on conversations with people in the industry.

Geometry of roaster: spherical shape plus internal baffles result in beans being very well mixed and evenly heated this gives a uniform roast.  

External burner coupled with single pass for hot air reduce temperature inertia and allow very good temperature control, single pass also helps to remove unwanted flavours. This is not as energy efficient as nib roasters where air is recirculated.

A number of trials have proven that matching the roast results from ball roasters using drum roasters is not possible. This is one of the reasons why Food Masters are working to resurrect the ball roaster.

We are about to commit to a new cocoa bean processing plant and if the new ball roaster was available and proven in larger sizes it would have been our preference. Unfortunately only small lab size machines have been built so far so we will go with drum roasting.

I would be interested in other opinions.

Out of curiosity Peter - what makes you say that's one of the best whole bean roasting technologies?

It would have no impact on reheology.

The best way to remove the shell is to 'pre roast' or micronize the whole beans to faciliate some moisture removal from the shell to reduce it's adhesion to the nib, and result in it's easier separation from the nib.

Hi Michael,

My hope was that these might be helpful for others so I am glad you found it useful. 

cheers,

Eric

Hi there, is anyone cracking unroasted beans, winnowing, then roasting the nibs? I am curious whether this would create a less viscous chocolate since more of the cocoa butter would in the nibs and not absorbed by the husk. Also, is there a trick to cracking unroasted beans. Thanks!

I have a new EZTemper that I'm selling. Purchased less than 6 months ago. It was used only once or twice. Mint condition and works like a charm! I found that I simply don't have a use for it as I have a continuous tempering unit. 

Here's a link to EZTemper if you'd like more info on it,   http://www.eztemper.com 

The unit is $999. new includes shipping. I'm selling this one for $875. plus shipping. 

Thanks

Food Masters are trying to resurrect the Sirroco roaster which is one of the best technologies for whole bean roasting. They will have all the modern controls (temperature/time curves, air flow etc) from touch screen PLC.

I have seen a 25kg machine in their workshop last year (made for a Japanese manufacturer) and I was very impressed. 

This may suit the OP much better than Selmi roaster.

pictures asking $500 OTO

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Michael -

Welcome to TheChocolateLife!

Where in Peru are you doing this work?

:: Clay

Thanks sebastian!

Welcome!

Greetings all!  By way of introduction, my name is Michael.  I love flavorful, minimally processed, high percentage dark chocolate.  I currently live in Peru and have been growing several T. cacao varieties for almost 5 years.  Presently, I am learning how to ferment and dry cacao from my current (second year) harvest focusing on developing flavor.  It is tough work, but very satisfying especially in the context of a complex agroforestry system and forest garden.  I am also very interested in finding a balance between growing a high quality economically viable cacao harvest and practicing tropical rainforest/biodiversity conservation.  

Eric, thanks for posting this useful resource! 

Yes, I have a pretty small shop--have two X3210s and a Rev 1.  I googled it and it looks like I can buy a small amount.

I'm taking it you're working on very, very small scale.  It might be hard to find fluid lecithin if that's the case - you might find some at a health store in capsules that you can pull apart to get to the lec that's inside? I've never really spent any time trying to identify ultra small quantities of lecithin - perhaps others on the board can assist.

Thanks, Clay and Sebastian.  Clay, the Chocovision brings it to 108.  I had her up the temp, and it finally melted, but she said it was "like Crisco--super thick and waxy."  I asked her to add some cocoa butter, but she had already dumped it out of the machine.

Sebastian, I bought it from a chocolatier who worked out of her home.  Have no idea how it was stored.

Where would I buy fluid lecithin?

It's probably because it's absorbed moisture.  It's likey either old, stored improperly, or both.  Distributors are terrible at this, so if you're not buying direct from the MFR, this will be a common problem.  The absorpbed moisture is resulting in it being very thick.  Add 0.1-0.3% fluid lecithin to it when melting, and give it lots of agitation (like in a kitchenaid mixer).  It will likely never revert to what it's supposed to be, but depending on how much moisture it's absorped, you may be able to bring it back into the realm of workabilty.

What temperature is the Chocovision set for? The Chocoley site says get white chocolate to 110F but IIRC the basic melt point in the Chocovision machines is set for 115F.

I would contact their help line and ask them directly.