Forum Activity for @Powell and Jones

Hi Folks,

Just posted a comment on another topic regarding building a DIY cocoa butter press.... that's not something I'd ever try although I've got a full workshop with a welder, lathe etc available.  

But still, in the spirit of DIY,  here's something both useful and relatively easy to make,  I've attached two photos of the 6 mold shaker I built this week.  I looked to buy a similar set up and it was going to be $2000!  My version uses the same Oli brand vibration motor I found under one of my purchased commercially made single mold shakers (Catalog price 1000 Euro!) 

This bigger version cost me less than $400 and a few hours of messing around in my workshop. Main parts needed:  One Aluminum NSF marked 18 x 28" sheet pan, some 1" stainless tubing, plastic joints and some fasteners etc., along with a 18 x 26 Silpat mat.   The vibration motor and compression springs were $220 on Amazon and the rest of the parts were found / sourced locally.   I even fitted a cheap router speed control ($7 at Harbor Freight) to make the thing fully adjustable.     Using my lathe I machined 4 sets of bushings for the springs and also a piece of tooling to countersink the mounting screws in the sheet pan, apart from that only hand tools needed.... Mainly a big hammer to fit the plastic frame joints!

Looking forward to being able to vibrate 6 filled bar molds at a time,  also good for Easter eggs etc.     If anyone wants details,  send me a message and I'll provide more detailed info....

MJ

 WP_20160310_16_12_25_Pro.jpg - 393KB

There really isn't a good / cheap option at the scale you want to produce.  Making a few hundred grams of CB using one of the chinese made electric electric 'oil' press devices is possible. For a few hundred dollars I suspect they won't last long?  There are some Taiwanese built 100T cacao presses out there, I've no personal experience of them, looks like they could work and make several kilos a day, you would need 3phase power and a strong floor they weigh a couple of tons at least.

Scaling up is both difficult and and expensive.  You simply wouldn't get the level of production (25#/ day) you want from any home brewed set up built using a cheap automotive bearing press.  You need far more force and some means to heat the pressing pot in a controlled way and also some safety screening.  I've built a lot of my own bean to bar set up,  but personally wouldn't bother to try to build a DIY press using a chinese HF 12 T press etc...sure, OK for pressing the wheel bearings off a rear axle, but simply not up to delivering the force necessary to extract cocoa butter efficiently or safely.    

I do admire the home brew crew and in certain parts of the world using a gas blow lamp on the outside of a pot made from an old diesel truck engine cylinder, a metal slug and some old cacao sacking and a hand jack powered automotive press does appear to be a means to produce small quantities of CB of unknown quality?  Personally, don't think this would fly with food safety / insurance etc here in the States, certainly wouldn't meet, State or Federal GMP food codes.

You do really need to both preheat the liquor and heat the pressing chamber to ensure efficient extraction - 25% or better.)  There's complex machining and or welding involved in making a safe (proofed) pressure pot capable of withstanding the massive force being applied. The cost of the billet material needed would likely suprise you.   You need a perforated follower, CB recovery system and a heating system.  The food contact surfaces need to be 304 / 316 stainless or better, and the press frame etc needs to be NSF food safe powder coat, not some potentially cadium or lead containing chinese paint or powder coat.  Electrical needs to be EL code etc.  need a safety screen around the press to protect staff from injury etc,

The Cacao Cucina systems appear built and designed by a company that knows how to design and build this sort of item to comply with the standards and safety norms. They are USA based hence relatively expensive, is there any other viable alternative currently?  Also consider the specs.....

The Lab Cocoa press uses a 75T press as the 'engine', that's a heavy duty bit of kit.   FYI:  Just the cost of a decent quality DAKE brand 75T 'workshop press' is around $9 - 10K.  The 5kg scale Cacao Cucina press apparently uses a dual action 200T press, these cost at least $25K. These items also weigh 1500 - 2600#  can your floors take the load, do you have the necessary space and electrical?   

Even if you manage to build something (cheaper?)  according to the Cacao Cucina specs their 200T model can only process a 5kg batch of liquor, assuming a decent yield of CB that's just over a kilo of CB per batch!  Are you going to run that device 10-12 times a day to obtain 25# or hire a staff member to do it, while you continue with your 'day job' of making chocolate and running the rest of your business?

Why not do the return on investment calculation?   i.e.  Is being able to press CB from you own cacao a critical aspect of your business model?  If yes,  What's the cost of investment needed?  Can I obtain a loan to purchase the necessary kit hire the staff to produce at the daily scale needed.  What is the ROI / pay back timeframe?

Good Luck!  and please be very careful if you go DIY 

Mark

Hi everyone, I'd like to say hello and introduce myself. Originally from the Czech Republic, I'm based in the SF Bay Area. I am first and foremost a writer but professionally speaking, an A.P.E. — that stands for Author Producer Entrepreneur (or Author Publisher Entrepreneur if you ask Guy Kawasaki). I've worked on Hollywood film sets, learned to dance flamenco, got nearly locked up in an ancient Byzantine mosque in Spain, met the real Baron von Munchausen in Malta, and rode 6 floors in a tiny wooden elevator belly to belly with a former Latin American president.

I also happen to love chocolate, so much so that I wrote a book about its history and mythology. For kids. Adventure/fantasy, based on the real stuff. (There actually was a Lord Cacao in old Tik'al.) But all these adults keep reading it and getting lost in it. I guess no one is immune to the stuff...

I've been following some of the posts here and finally found some time to set up an account and say hello.  And now that I have, the risk that I might start asking questions and participating in these forums is dangerously real.

Really looking forward to learning from the wonderful collective expertise that breathes from every page here, getting to know some of you, and contributing as much as I can.

Warm regards,

Birgitte

www.birgitterasine.com

Hey All,

I have a Cocoatown 65 and Im looking for the best solution for adding nibs to the Grindeur. It seems to seize up pretty easily. Any help would be appreciated. 

Also, if there is a good solution for pre grinding that I'm unaware of, I would love to know it. I would have a small budget for this task ($1000 maybe). 

Thanks!

OK Cool Thanks

S

I think that's more a question of you working out your budget, your production schedule and then seeing what equipment you need (to produce at capacity) and what you can afford.

Sorry I couldn't be more help.

Hi Gap,

I hope you don't mind some more questions? .... About buying equipment - before hitting the purchase button on Mol D'art

Are you able to "make it" with the equipment you have now? Or do you have another job? My idea is to buy affordable small scale eqipment to use for as long as I can, maybe a year, till a bank lender will consider me "eligable" for a business loan.

In the moment I sell to two customers - One big one that sells up to 100 of my bars a month, and a tiny chocolate boutique. This is about all I am producing now, using my tequnique of warming the chocolate in a dehydrator during the day, which takes hours. I have a part time job working three days a week, so basically I work everyday  

Thanks!

I pre grind nibs only for 2 hours,then add sugar some butter, then grind to spec, then add residual butter and lecithin.

Not sure when you mean by "at sugar addition". Do you add yours right after nibs or do you wait? And when do you add the rest of the butter?

Try grinding your nibs only with fan on for -two hours before addition of sugar.

adding butter at sugar addition ( I would not add more than 25% of your added butter) can reduce batch times, theoretically this should come at the expense of your fans volatile removal ability, but I think final viscosity isn't much different.

Incidentally, how thoroughly these machines grind is purely a function of time. I like refiner conches but like any piece of equipment they have their limitations.

Hi Ben, I remember I was in this thread a while ago and wanted to use a 20 Ton Floor Shop press from Harbor Freight (cost only:

http://www.harborfreight.com/20-ton-shop-press-32879.html?ccdenc=eyJjb2RlIjoiNzQzMDYzNTEiLCJza3UiOiIzMjg3OSIsImlzIjoiMTU0Ljk5IiwicHJvZHVjdF9p%0D%0AZCI6IjQ1MyJ9%0D%0A&hftref=cj

Back then, I did not have the detailed design of the cylinder and the other elments that are in contact with the liquor - Now I see that Mindo chocolate posted a Video - It looks interesting (Thx for sharing this post) - Now, I need to check with my local machinist how much it cost to make it here in Houston. I would like to like to see if I can come up with a hybrid design between the features in this one and the Cacao Cucina one:

Lab Cocoa Butter Press
 

This thread has a video of a simple press made by Mindo Chocolate: 

https://www.thechocolatelife.com/clay/group_discuss/979/cocoa-butter-press

I don't know how much it is or it's production capability.

Huh, I would have thought that more viscous chocolate would refine faster and more thoroughly. On a related note, does anyone know if adding butter at the start or a few hours in has an effect on viscosity?

I don't have any recommendations for commercially-made presses for under $10k or thereabouts - 50kg/hr.

You can go to school on the videos for Grenada Chocolate Company and Cacao Cucina to get an idea of how to put one together as you've indicated a willingness to make one.

Thanks! Much appreciated!

Greg:

Can you post a photo (or photos) of what the attachment point looks like? You almost certainly need a tool of some kind but hopefully it's not a special tool.

All tanks are the same - the tricky part in using them is when there is only a small amount of chocolate in the bottom.

I often start with 2kg in a 6kg tank. That's easy enough to work with. The tricky part is when you start your moulding and you get down to the last 500-750g. At that point I often hold one end of the tank up so that the chocolate pools at one end. Alternatively, lift the pan out of the tank and simply pour the remaining chocolate into waiting moulds.

Gap,

This is really good information for me. I have been uncertain about how to simplify and make the process more efficient. I just have two stone grinders that hold 2liters in the moment. Do you think that would be too little to have in a 6l/kg melting tank(2 liters per tank)? I'd rather not get the smallest or the largest either, for now. I just want to make the right decision in purchases while starting out. 

Thanks!

Sabrina

Hi everyone!   I just picked up a used cutter and some of the strings are broken on a couple of frames.  Do I neeed a special tool to loosen the bolts on the frame so I can replace strings?

Ok Thx Clay, it looks like I need to raise my budget; I am willing to spend more on a more descent machine something between 2K - 5K (I would like to stay as low as possible) do you have any recomendations? 

In the same vein, you may find when grinding less viscous formulations that there are nibs that do not get processed, a trip through a screen is advised.

Thanks Clay!

I am definitely going to have a good look at the stand alone units. In the summer time our RH reading can get as high as 70% -- even with the dehumidifier on. I would like to keep it around 50% or less.  What we currently have is a $250 unti from the hardware store. I don't think it is strong enough for our size room. The untis in the link are definitely bigger and more powerful so one of those will probably do the job. Thanks again!

Daniel

Daniel -

Do you know what the humidity range is already? Do you have a digital hygrometer that records? You should!

RH percentage will determine (to a large extent) how many changes of air per hour you need. (60-70% == 3 changes/hour; 70-80% == 4 changes/hour, etc). If you want a deep dive on how to calculate capacity, here's a read .

You can get a single large unit or multiple smaller units. If you can reduce the volume you need to dehumidify that could help. If you have HVAC you could install an i nline system .

Here's a source for stand-alonecommercial units. Here's another .

Here is a system to consider for walk-ins .

Note: I have not used any of this equipment nor purchased from the vendors. These are not recommendations. I just did some quick research.

I love winter and how dry it makes it our production facility. Warm and Humid weather is on its way though and we need to dehumidify our production space. Our space is about 2,000 square feet with high ceilings (at least 20 feet high) . We want to be able to make toffee, caramel, nougat, etc... all summer long. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to buy? Thank you!

Daniel

The easiest way is just to melt chocolate and add liquid (milk) to get to the consistency you want. It can be a pourable syrup or scoopable ganache (there are advantages to both).

If you want to use cocoa powder a Dutched powder will probably have lower acidity than a natural powder. You can use water or milk to make the syrup - there is no need to add any fat (butter). You can use a high-fat powder (20-22%) if you want a fattier mouth feel. 

I would be tempted to make the syrup with water and then offer the options of different milks when making the final product. You could use skim, whole milk, half-and-half, or cream, or - and this could be interesting for some customers - coconut milk, almond milk, rice milk, or some other option. The base syrup is vegetarian and with the right sugar it could also be vegan.

PeterK brings up a good point.

FDA regulations require a magnetic trap during the bean inspection phase prior to roasting in the sense that if the FDA inspects your facility (you did register, right?) and they don't find one they can cite you.

It is also a good idea to have an inline magnetic trap before tempering.

Willing to sell a few at a time.

Let me know how many you would like.

Are you willing to sell just a few of these molds, or only the whole lot?

I think the fly in the ointment is that 6-7 % threshold. I can't ever recall getting direct shipped that showed up at that level. It is next to impossible for certain spots

as long as aw is low enough, and micro is clear it generally isn't (until maint.). Your kill step is in roasting. And do not forget your magnet.

I wanted to add a link to the original product for more specs:

http://tomric.com/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=rectangle&product_id=2761

From my travels I came across Chocolat Chaud (hot chocolate) and noticed how much better it was than the rubbish we get local (watery). I wanted to recreate this product and offer it to people via a mobile coffee shop.

Typically local products are powders that get mixed with water/milk. I wanted to make a liquid (at fridge and room temp) chocolate sauce that could become a hot chocolate with cappuccino milk as the water/milk.

I was thinking of using Dutch cocoa powder, butter(milk) and sugar. Using milk butter as it is softer at room temp than cocoa butter.

Any tips on how I could make this liquid chocolate from scratch? Or any other thoughts?

Thanks in advance for your help

All gone. Thanks

I'm curious about cleaning equipment at chocolate factories. Assuming one is running the same type of chocolate in the equipment, how often is the equipment cleaned? What are the health requirements for cleaning? 

Hello Sebastian,

If the opportunity remains, I would like information. Please send the info to my personal email address curlygapeach@yahoo.com.

Thanks in advance, Judah

I would say that rheology depends on MANY factors, your PSD being just one of them.  How much moistuer you have post roast in your nibs, how much you can drive off in your conche, how effectively you emulsify, your other ingredients, etc all play vital roles in rheology.

Cleaning a MacIntyre constantly can get time consuming and costly, we ran in batches of 5 then mixed them together to even out the variances.

The lining should be ok - it's been used less than 200 hours total so far. I do use standard white table sugar though, so a two-roll prefiner should be my next purchase

That then becomes a little more complicated.  The lining on your macintyre will abrade away over time, resuting larger particle sizes the more you use it.  You can have it relined, but the specifics of your PSD will be pretty related to the health of your lining currently.  Also, are you using crystalline sugar (ie standard table sugar)? The starting size of your crystals also has an impact of how they break.  Most 'table' sugar type sugar is int he 600-3000 um starting particle size range, and can benefit from going through a 2 roll prerefiner to reduce the amount of fines they can generate.

I currently put the nibs straight into the MacIntyre, and put whole sugar in a bit afterwards. I get to ~15 microns (measured with a micrometer) in around 22 hours.

Next would be getting a grinder, then a 3-roll refiner. It's been put off because of lack of capital.

Depends entirely on what distriubution you get.  If you end up with a distribution that tight, but very small particle size - then no... as with many things, the devil's in the details here.  Most prerefining configurations will result in less super fines, which will give you a lower viscosity (less thick) chocolate.  Some configurations won't.  How do you plan to prerefine and how are you currently refining?  Sorry if youp'd already noted that...