Forum Activity for @Clay

Karen -

There are so many ways to approach answering this question it's hard to begin.

Brad had some very good advice in the thread on coming up with a name for a new chocolate business and it call comes down to doing your homework, then doing some more. The main reason you're not finding the information you are looking for is that the information does not exist. There is no place to find numbers for how much revenue a small retail location "should" do. I am not surprised that the CoC and other local business resources can't help because they have no experience in this area.

Concept and execution are hugely important but not as important as understanding your market and giving them what they want.

Also - being precise: Is that $4k/month gross receipts or gross profits? On the one hand it would be tempting to conclude that you don't do anything and you can rake in $2k/month on incidental walk-in business in a hard-to-find location. Doubling that in a real retail location should be a no-brainer. But is it a brainer. In part because running a retail business is different from running a production business.

I do know that you can't take an "If I open it, they will come" attitude toward the shop. You need to think of the shop as one element of a campaign to grow your business and you need to decide what success means for you.

In my experience, business plans tend to be self-fulfilling prophecies. If you don't have high expectations going in, you won't achieve much. If the shop is going to be an engine of growth for you, think about what it might take to double sales and gross revenue. What does that mean? What will that take? Are you committed to doing it? Decide what the goal is then make the plan to reach the goal. You already have established a brand and a reputation so there's a solid foundation to build on.

But do your homework. What does the community want and need? Chances are it's not a place to buy obscure $10 chocolate bars - or at least not enough of them to keep the lights on and the doors open. Look around and see what's missing in the community that you can incorporate into your plan. The better prepared you are in this respect, the better your chances of achieving success - however you define it. But I would not go into this with low expectations - or that's all you may achieve.

Brad -

Are you sure there's NO benefit? I my experience, it's a lot easier and faster to fill a CocoaTown with liquor than it is using nib. Also, because of the pre-grind step, batches tend to need to spend less time in the CocoaTown to get to the desired PSD. For the same reasons, I find that pre-grinding the sugar also reduces the amount of time needed in the CocoaTown.

For very small batch production it's one of the things that a Champion is good for, and I also refine up the whole vanilla bean in the sugar in the food processor.

Now - it's important to note that these pre-grind steps, especially when it comes to sugar, can have an effect on the final taste of the chocolate. So it's important to pay attention so you know what's going on.

And I completely agree, Brad -- sieves are very cheap and I would recommend that they be used for all production, no matter what type of machinery is being used, and even if pre-grinding is used. YOU NEVER KNOW what might be in the chocolate. A piece of metal could flake off. A sieve will catch it (especially if it is magnetized).

Sara:

In the discussion Larry links to, I point out that the least expensive storage solution is a chest freezer with a thermostat override. You can set the temp of the freezer to be in the 55-65F range, which is perfect for storage. Because the top opens, less cold air leaks out than when using a front-opening fridge.

There are no formal industry standards as to what "single-origin" means. It's probably not a bad idea because of the widespread use of the term and the potential for misleading buyers.

I stopped using the phrase "single-origin" when talking about chocolate a long time ago because, for me, it's no longer either meaningful nor helpful. I now just use the single word "origin." An origin chocolate is one where the place where the beans come from is indicated on the label.

The origin may be big - an entire country: Venzuela. It could be a region: Carenero, Sur del Lago (by Lake Maracaibo), Ocumare. It could be small: a village/community (Chuao) or a farm (Hacienda Concepcion, Hacienda San Jose).

Is a chocolate a single-origin chocolate if it is a blend of beans from two different growing areas of the same country?It might be if your definition of the origin is an entire country. Otherwise not.

Another nuance to consider for companies adding cocoa butter to their chocolate: To be a "true" single origin the cocoa butter has to come from the same place that the beans come from. It's not single-origin if the beans are grown in Venezuela and the cocoa butter is Ghanaian deodorized.

If you really wanted to be picky about it, a "true" single origin would have ALL of the ingredients come from the same origin. Should a "single-origin" from the Dominican Republicbe made with Dominican sugar?

Finally,a varietal name is not an originand can be confusing. Ocumare is also a varietal - and they grow in other places besides Ocumare. (I've seen them in a gene bank in Bolivia - at least they were identified as Ocumare, but that's another story.)

In the end, you have to trust everyone in the supply chain to be telling the truth. Traceability is supposed to be part of agri- and social certifications. Does that mean that accidents and fraud don't happen? Of course not.

Sebastian is totally right about genetic variability within a pod. It depends, from what I have been told, on how many times the flower has been successfully fertilized. This more times, the greater the genetic diversity within the pod. From what I have been told, cacao is nearly unique, if not unique in this respect.

Sebastian -

I was talking through this with a ChocolateLife member who makes a bacon bar and his understanding - as it was explained to heim by federal inspectors - was that as long as the percentage of bacon was below a certain level then getting a USDA meat license is not a requirement.

He is on his way to becoming what he says is the first small-scale chocolate and confectionery producer to be USDA licensed.

Shannon:

This is a case of the food inspectors not knowing much (or anything) about chocolate (or compound).

There is no water in chocolate so there is nothing for bacteria/yeast/molds/spores to grow in.

You can leave a bar of chocolate out "in the danger zone" for months or years and nothing will grow on it (or in it), unless it gets wet.Cross contamination is really only an issue if you introduce something with water in it - dairy ingredients for example. You always want to make sure to keep things clean, including your hands, but most importantly you want to keep everything that comes in contact with the chocolate/compound dry.

That said, you are right. There is no easily accessible documentation from a source that a health inspector would believe was an authority. (However, this discussion is up in Google search results in about 3 hours.)

However, keeping chocolate and compound in melters all day long is standard for the business. It's done everywhere, all day long.

Maybe Sebastian has some documentation that would address this issue?

Rosanne:

I just want to make sure that I understand that you're looking for this ganache to be the filling between layers of the cake.

And - how cool is cool?

The observation about glucose is interesting ... but did you know that honey is also an invert sugar and that it can be used the same way that glucose/trimoline are used? Try Brad's recipe with a neutral-flavored honey (or replace some of the sugar with honey) and use as little extra water as possible when heating the fruit to incorporate the sugar/honey.

Also, once you open your containers of dairy, technically they are no longer pasteurized. So while heavy cream has a lot more water than butter does, you can put it on a stove and re-pasteurize it (bring it to a boil, take it off the heat for 1 minute, return it to a boil a second time, take it off the heat for one minute, re-boil, take off the heat and let cool to 160F (70C) then use the heat of the cream to melt the chocolate.

When you mix the ingredients together - cream, chocolate, sweetened fruit puree - take care to mix in as little air as possible. Use a wooden spoon or spatula and not a balloon whisk. There are spores in the air that will grow in the water in recipe. The more air you mix into the recipe the more spores there will be.

Brad:

From personal experience dealing with many, many people in the chocolate world at all levels of experience and understanding from all over the world for more than a decade, I can tell with certainty that it is possible for someone to hold two contradictory opinions in their heads at the same time. Usually it is out of ignorance (often only partial knowledge as we all know a little knowledge is a dangerous thing) and not out of any deliberate attempt to misrepresent.

What I do like about the above reply is that you spent some time to find and present information about HAACP and present it in this discussion.

What I don't like about the above is that you presume malice on the part of the OP. I am a voracious reader and one quote I like is(I am paraphrasing here): "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by ignorance." I also like this one from Goethe: "...misunderstandings and neglect create more confusion in this world than trickery and malice. At any rate, the last two are certainly much less frequent."

The root of my approach to moderating TheChocolateLife is to assume that people have incomplete knowledge and incomplete understanding. It is rare, I have found for people to deliberately misrepresent themselves here.

That's where I start from. I've been working in chocolate for over a decade and I freely admit that there is stuff I don't know. And there is stuff I will never know. But it's one of the reasons I started TheChocolateLife - so I could learn from thousands of others around the world who love chocolate. I did not create TheChocolateLife as a forum for members to publicly shame and ridicule other members because they did not have perfect knowledge.

There's a line in my book about the most important thing to take to a chocolate tasting - and that's a sense of humor. I go on to say that it's okay to take the chocolate seriously but we should be wary about taking our selves too seriously. Having humility and empathy is important, in my opinion.

And that's the tone I am striving for here, and it has certainly informed my approach to my chocolate career, moving away from calling myself a critic and focusing on mentoring and educating.

I try to lead by example - and sometimes I fail. And the community has lost some very strong, technically, members. And the community is the less for that. However, it's important for me to keep in mind at all times that this is just chocolate.

Brad - You have a lot of useful and valuable information to impart to the community. What you don't recognize (or if you do you simply don't care) is that you undermine yourself and your knowledge when you choose to be confrontational.

All I am asking is that you respect my wishes about how I want members address and speak to other members. I am very clear about that in the member guidelines and in the way I moderate discussions. You can make all the points you make - and people will actually want to listen to you - by being less confrontational.

It's like Gordon Ramsey is your role model here.

TheChocolateLife is not your community. You may feel, as a member, that you are entitled to unbridled expression: That is not the case.If you want a place where you are free to say whatever you want, however you want, then by all means start your own blog or community and open it up forunmoderated(prior to posting) comments from readers/members. It is in this last aspect that I lost any remaining shred of respect for Sam. She makes untrue allegations about me - publicly - but is unwilling to allow any form of feedback or rebuttal.

And at this point, I am closing this discussion for at least 48 hours to let the flames die down.

Brad:

The language and attitude is totally uncalled for. We've had these discussions privately. You can make the points you want to make without being either overbearing or condescending.

Please.

Russ:

Without actually trying it, I can't see why there would be any particular benefit to using a grinder like the ECGC12SL as a mixer, which is what you're really looking to do - mix all the ingredients together and create a more stable suspension.

How long were you thinking you'd need to leave everything in to mix? I am thinking 10-15 minutes tops, which would mean that there would be little chance for any evaporation to happen - which you do want, actually, water in the suspension increases viscosity significantly.

Most dried honey powder is a little honey and a lot of filler - usually maltodextrin. Good luck in finding something that is pure honey. I and others have been looking and we haven't found anything yet.

Russ:

Colin Green in Australia started a related discussion on honey and chocolatea couple of months ago - you might want to check to see if some of the answers you seek are there.

Lieven:

Your production target very wide - 45-90kg chocolate per day (assuming 220 working days/year) soSebastian is right in asking what your budget is. There are several different ways to get there, and many more ways NOT to get there.

Gustaf:

On this last question: it depends on the recipe. What is the percentage of cocoa? Dark chocolate could be in the range 35% cocoa to 100% cocoa.

Also, if cocoa butter is added to the recipe you need to know the extraction ratio of non-fat cocoa solids to fat in order to know how many beans were used to generate a specific amount of cocoa butter.

And then - you need to know the fat ratio of the beans themselves. 47% fat? 53% fat?

And then - what variety of beans are you talking about? Industry is more or less standardized around 100 beans == 100 grams. However, some varieties, like the wild beans from Bolivia, are upwards of 140-160 beans per 100 grams. It takes many more Bolivian wild beans to make a kilo of chocolate than CCN51, which are much larger.

Not sure why you want to know the answer, but the question is only answerable within a narrow range, and only after you have values for the variables involved.

One of the reasons small bean-to-bar chocolate makers don't use added cocoa butter in their recipes is because, in order to be truly single-origin, the cocoa butter should come from the same beans used to make the chocolate.

Another reason often cited is that adding deodorized cocoa butter "dilutes" the flavor of the chocolate. Undeodorized cocoa butter has a flavor so it doesn't have the problem of diluting the flavor it has the problem of altering the flavor of the chocolate. Adding undeodorized Ghana butter to a chocolate made from Madagascar beans and what's the result?

Which way to go? It's up to you as the chocolate maker to decide. If you are going to be marketing single-origin chocolates then I think you've got a problem using cocoa butter that's not from the same origin, irrespective of whether it's deodorized or un-. If you don't have that issue, then un- is the way to go.

And - BTW - here in the US, white chocolate is legally chocolate, as long as the recipe conforms to the Standard of Identity (if it doesn't you can't call it white chocolate). FYI, perhaps the best white chocolate in the world is made with undeodorized cocoa butter: El Rey's Icoa. I tad heavily roasted for taste, but it does taste like cocoa and not sweet dairy.

Kerry -

My thoughts exactly with Qzina and D+R - I was going to suggest them. Didn't know about France Decor.

Mark -

Having used it, I can say that Blommer's undeodorized cocoa butter is quite good. You have to order 1 tonne if you go through them, but if you call them you can find out the name of your local distributor. That's what I did when I needed some here in NYC - it was a restaurant/bakery ingredient company.

The price was quite good for what we got - only challenge for you going this route is that I believe the smallest size if a 35lb tub. That said, it will probably be one of the less expensive alternatives on a per-pound basis so it might not end up costing that much more than a more expensive cocoa butter in small quantities.

:: Clay

Roger -

It is a good idea - and it belongs in the Classifieds section.

Doing it this way requires that I "police" every post where someone asks to buy or sell beans outside that single post, point them to the correct post, and close down the one where the question is asked (unless it's a blog in which case there's nothing I can do).

I mention that because we tried to create a single "official bean-to-bar chocolate maker" thread and in the end it turned out to be too much work to force all new entries into the single "official" thread.

Blog/discussion software is not the best tool to this. If anyone has some programming skills and wants to work on some useful database tools I would be happy to work on this.

Roger:

Interesting idea ... and one that I will think about some more if/as people chime in on this.

A generic "Where to Buy" category makes sense to me in a general discussion area.

There is a whole Classifieds section where an "I want to buy/sell cocoa beans" makes a lot of sense and it would be highly specific. I could close this discussion and point to one there.

A "Where to Buy Cocoa Beans" in the main discussion are seems redundant to me.

Anyone have any strong opinions one way or the other?

Roger:

There are many sources for cocoa beans. One I recommend is a new sponsor of TheChocolateLife - Meridian Cacao .

:: Clay

I don't entirely understand what you are looking for. A hot pan for nuts to cover with chocolate? Roast? Caramelize (that is, make pralin)?

Panning is the process of covering a center with chocolate or sugar, or some other coating.

Here's a site for a US company that sells machines for cooking nuts in sugar . Here's the web site of the company that makes them (they're in Munich, Germany).

Here's a site for a German company that makes machines for roasting nuts and cooking them in sugar.

One of the challenges is that in order for it to be called milk chocolate here in the US, it has to have dairy in it:

(4) Dairy ingredients:
(i) Cream, milkfat, butter;
(ii) Milk, concentrated milk, evaporated milk, sweetened condensed milk, dried milk; and
(iii) Skim milk, concentrated skim milk, evaporated skim milk, sweetened condensed skim milk, nonfat dry milk;

Callebaut might not be selling it here in the US for labeling reasons.If you import it from Canada you should be careful how you label it.Calling it "dairy-free milk chocolate" won't work - at least as far as the FDA is concerned. That's why some companies refer to "mylk" chocolate.

There are a couple of bean-to-bar companies I know that use coconut milk powder and it's really quite good. Not making it as couverture to sell, though. Askinosie uses goat's milk and while it is goat-y it's not too goat-y.

It is possible to make.

Tom:

I missed Nick's mention of 90gr molds and so your math is correct ... but only by assuming you can get every single gram of chocolate out of the machine. In my experience, that is simply not possible, and it is misleading to suggest that it is. This is a situation where your being preciseis misleading. 125 molds, maybe. 130 molds I could even get down with, but exactly 133 molds, sorry.

You explained why someone would not want to empty the bowl - the dosing becomes less accurate as the bowl empties. But there is another, and far better, reason not to empty the bowl that has to do with throughput. Even if Selmi does make an accessory to keep the bowl pressure more constant.

Also, in my experience talking with many owners of Selmi machines, the tempering is rarely perfectand often starts to suffer when the bowl starts emptying during normal production. This is because there is a very small mass of chocolate in the bottom of bowl near the melt point and you are dumping tempered chocolate into the bowl (which can be 10C or more cooler) and there is no chance to melt out all the crystals before it goes through the tempering pipe again. This can lead very quickly to over crystallization. I understand the mechanics and physics of these continuous tempering machines quite well.

And yes, the augers can be removed from FBM machines and they can be washed with water.

And still, Tom, you misunderstand. I can have biases. I don't have to be perfectly neutral about everything (or anything!). I get to have opinions and I get to express them freely. One of the reasons TheChocolateLife now counts nearly 7,500 members in over 140 countries is that I do have opinions, and I do express them. People want to know what I think. Here's one - there's nothing magic in the air or water (or equipment or cocoa beans) that automagically makes chocolate made in Belgium better than chocolate made anywhere else -- just because it comes from Belgium. It's just marketing hype.I think that the small batch bean-to-bar craft chocolate movement is making a lot of the really interesting chocolate in the world right now.

I don't keep it a secret that I sell equipment. I started to sell equipment in part to cover the costs of hosting the site and because I wanted to get out of the business of shipping chocolate bars. It's right up front on the home page of the site that I sell equipment, and what I equipment I sell. There is no hidden agenda and the site does not exist just to sell equipment. I sell Chocovision tempering machines, I've sold Bakon melters, I've sold CocoaTown grinders. I've even sold a couple of Selmi Pluses (through Tomric). More importantly (for me and for ChocolateLife members), FBM worked with me to create a program that made it possible for me offermeaningful discounts on continuous tempering equipment to ChocolateLife members around the world.

And, rest assured, I do my very best to make sure ChocolateLife members are educated about equipment purchases large and small.

Tom -

You still have not explained what is "new" about the "new generation" of machines that makes it possible to deposit inclusions so easily.

The size range you are talking about, 2-3mm, and the percentage you are talking about - 20% - is something that can easily be handled by a number of other machines, including those from FBM, and have been capable for some time.

So, I am curious to know what's so new about the new generation machines that sets them apart from the old generation machines where working with inclusions was not possible.

Nick - Just FYI, the number of tablets per batch Tom gives (133) is a kind of strange number as the Color has a 12kg working bowl. The number of bars you get depends on the volume of the mold cavity. If you were depositing 80gr bars you'd get more out of 12kg than 133. Also, these are continuous tempering machines so there should be no concept of "batch." For a number of reasons you never want to get close to emptying the bowl during normal production. This will introduce variability into the weight of the deposit and cause changes in temperature that will affect tempering and the viscosity of the chocolate.

Continuous tempering machines operate under very different principles than batch machines and the two should not be confused or mixed.

:: Clay

Nick:

What sizes are the inclusions and what's the ratio of chocolate to inclusion? That'd help us understand better what you're working with and how we might be able to help you address your production challenges.

Assuming, of course, that you aren't looking to spend $20,000 to solve the issue.

:: Clay

Tom:

I don't see any mention of the ability of your "new generation" of machines to handle inclusions. Can you please let the community know what the maximum size of inclusions your machines can handle (in mm) and what the max percentage of inclusions that can be handled (ratio of chocolate to inclusions) and of the inclusions are handled both with the measured depositor and with the depositor plates.

I don't really mind too much your not actually answering Nick's question - but it is not okay just to post a link to an equipment vendor's site where the answer to the question is not immediately apparent.

I hope you understand.

:: Clay

Tom:

I couldn't get your link to work for me. I went to Google Books and then entered " Restoring Chocolate's Old-Time Flavor" into the search box and found the text you mentioned. Here's a link that should work .

What a great find! I am l ooking forward to reading this.

Brad:

While I appreciate your offer to the members, I make the money to support TheChocolateLife community by offering advertising and sponsorship programs to companies that want to sell products and services to members.

By making your offer without contacting me first you have undermined some of the relationships I have with advertisers and sponsors. I am closing down comments to this post for that reason.

Your advertising your product in this way is the same - from my perspective - as if I owned a chocolate store and you walked into that store and started selling your products. I can only assume that if I walked into your storefront in Calgary and started selling someone else's chocolate that you'd have a problem with that.We have had this discussion before - in private and in public. TheChocolateLife is my place of business and I ask that you respect that and consider that fact when making posts.

If you want to offer your product commercially to ChocolateLife members you can ... through the proper channels. One of the things I look for is a pricing structure that provides a discount to ChocolateLife members PLUS a commission to me for referring any business.

:: Clay

PS.Classifieds is for USED equipment so if you want to sell off youroldmachines you can.

Paul:

There's another way to think about this.

Chocolate will continue to crystallize at a constant temperature (that's why it tends to thicken over the course of a day in a tempering machine even if nothing else changes).Cooling the chocolate induces faster crystallization. This cooling might be very local (within a few mm of the surface of your frozen center), but it can effect a very real change in the chocolate over time as the crystals are mixed in and spread.

So - while the temperature might not change "significantly," you are inducing faster crystal formation in the chocolate that's left behind in the bowl.

Paul:

The thing that occurs to me right away is that your centers are coming from the freezer and they're cooling the chocolate really, really quickly causing the cocoa butter to crystallize a lot faster than you expect.

First thought is to raise the temperature of the chocolate to as high as you possibly can and still keep it in temper. After dipping a couple of centers, stir the chocolate and check to see what temperature it is, and adjust accordingly.

Now - this may introduce other issues, such as the shells cracking because of the differential in temperatures.

Emily:

I've been on the tech-help side of these things after you've tried ninety-eleven ways to try to fix things and nothing seems to work.

Although not relevant to your problem, I got some panicky emails the week before Valentine's Day from someone who'd purchased a specialty chocolate holding cabinet through me. They pressed a button on the front during cleaning and changed the temperature and it would no longer reach and hold the correct temperature - too warm! ... and it had work flawlessly for three years. They tore it apart, cleaned the insides, had tech help from the company on the phone for hours and in the end, the solution was exactly what my initial thought was: in the three years they had never checked the refrigerant level. The refrigeration repair tech who came in diagnosed the problem in about 2 minutes and within another 15 minutes the cabinet was back up and working. The moral of the story there is that the pre-season checkup now includes not only a cleaning but also recharging the system.

I imagine that it will be something that either has never happened before in the history of this machine (I've run into that scenario) OR it will be something so obvious in hindsight (like the above) that everyone will be slapping their foreheads.

Please let us know how things turn out!

Carley -

Give Puratos a call and ask if there is another distributor in your area. While they may not schedule truck deliveries like Sysco there should be something close enough that you're not shipping pallets from NJ.

As for how many cases/pallet it depends on what size(s) and form factors the product comes in. I know Guittard has a 500lb minimum and they sell in 500gr bars (E Guittard line), 5kg boxes, and 25 and 50 lb boxes not to mention in bags and drums. So, depending on what you order, the number of cases can vary considerably.

Vahid:

What is wrong with the machines? Are they not functioning in the same way? There is no way anyone can help if we don't know what's wrong.

Have you contacted Chocovision.

Martin:

Here is a link to the machine in question , for everyone.

The 3RT 12C is not a continuous tempering machine (neither is the 6T series), it is a batch tempering machine. From the page:

12 kg. of chocolate is melted to 45 degree C in 60-90 minutes. It is then cooled and tempered to 31 degree C in app. 20 minutes.

Once the 12kg of chocolate is used, it will take a minimum of 20 minutes to get a new batch of 12kg of tempered chocolate (assuming chocolate at 45C is poured into the tempering machine) otherwise you are looking at 80-90 minutes between batches working from solid chocolate. From everything I have heard, the Chocomas are dependable machines that do what they do. However, note that the these machines do not include depositors or vibrating tables so if those features are important to you you need to factor those into the total cost.

Both the Selmi One and FBM Aura are continuous tempering machines. They are roughly comparable in terms of basic capabilities. Major differences are in working bowl capacity and form factor (the One is floor-standing and the Aura is bench-top).

With the Aura's 4kg working bowl you can be ready to work in about 30 minutes from a cold start and take up to about 10kg per hour out of the working bowl without having to interrupt production for more than a few minutes at a time. This is one of the major advantages of continuous tempering - greater throughput. I would also say that more consistent crystallization is also possible.

In my opinion, based on everything I know about the internal workings of the two machines FBM machines are better engineered and built than Selmi machines. The Aura is about 2000 Euros cheaper than the One (before the ChocolateLife member discount on FBM). From a throughput perspective, the closer comparison is the FBM Prima which is slightly less expensive (after ChocolateLife member discount) than the One. The Prima does have the advantage of accepting an enrober attachment, which neither the One nor the Color can.

Hey everyone. If you want to put together buying groups for products from companies that are NOT supporters of TheChocolateLife please contact me first. If you are not sure if a company is a supporter of TheChocolateLife - please contact me first.

There may be a conflict with an existing supporter of TheChocolateLife.
I may be able to help get a better discount and/or a better product.

Please keep in mind that the commissions I make selling products to the ChocolateLife community make it possible for me to run the community free of charge.

Thanks for your understanding,
:: Clay

Salt is noted for its ability to reduce bitterness in some contexts. Try adding tiny (!) amounts of salt to a cup of espresso, mix, and take a small sip. Do this a couple of times and pay attention to the sensation of bitterness as it changes.

Allie:

Apart from the fact that I have not idea what "appertains" are and I don't see a reference to them on the web site, there's nothing in the company's claims that is not possible. (And strictly speaking, it would be sorbitol not sorbitals).

What I would take away from the description is that the chocolate will be very intense. For most people, 90%+ chocolates are very much acquired tastes and most people find it very difficult to eat more than a very small portion at a time.

But - just ground cocoa beans and salt? It's a legitimate recipe - though again, strictly speaking, most "Himalayan" salt is mined in Pakistan.

Brad:

I read the OP to say they wanted to try something new and different (i.e., not a ladle - which I also interpreted to mean not a measuring cup) to transfer the chocolate from an existing bain marie (not in buying a new machine). I also read Olivier's profile and he's from Switzerland and I learn now in Chile, so the suggestion of a comparatively low-tech concept that could be implemented many ways turned out to be especially appropriate.

Replacing the siphon hose is trivial; I was pointing out anapproachto solving the problem of finding a new and different way to dispense hot chocolate, not suggesting a specific piece of equipment.

NN2R (no need to respond) to me on this. If you have something in line with what Olivier was asking for, please feel free to respond to the spiritof his OP.

Olivier -

You are right - there's nothing I can find in the way of pipettes and basters that are larger than about 40-60mls.

I wonder if a siphon like this one might work.

It will do about 1 pint (about 475ml) in three strokes, once primed. You could move the supply hose from the chocolate to a container of water to clean (by pumping) after each serving. With the right mounting hardware something like this could be pretty cool for serving hot chocolate.

30% is way too low for chocolate. 50-55% is about right.

I suspect a combination of approaches will work. I would hate to invest $5k in a big dehumidifier and find out it doesn't work.

When working with the Moso bags (you might be able to find a local supplier for something similar in bulk and you could use another wood - bamboo is used because it's so fast growing) I always make sure to increase air circulation if I can and make sure the bag is in the airstream. They are small, but I used one for a self-made walk-in cooler of about 80 cu meters and had no problem, in part because there was very little air transfer. They are surprisingly effective. And cheap. Hanging one in the bowl and covering it up would remove excess moisture from the air in the bowl for sure.

Colin -

Try using quantities of bamboo bio-char. I ran across this company a couple of years ago and have used this product in a number of installations where the problem was not quite as severe as the one you're describing. This is a US company but I know they source their bamboo bio-char in SE Asia.

They are quite cheap (the large bags retail for US$23 each) and are good for about 50 cubic meters. You might need four or five or more to address the problem - but they are still really cheap and they require no energy. You could get many more than you need and instead of cycling them monthly, cycle them weekly.

BTW - these bags are also good in refrigerated display cases where there is no humidity control as well as for any application where refrigeration is required and humidity is a problem.

Javier -

I was not far from you last week -- in and around Piura and Lima.

Any "batch" tempering machine, like the Chocovision (including X3210 or Delta) need seed chocolate. This means that in order to temper properly you need already-tempered chocolate. If you are making chocolate bean-to-bar this means that you probably have to table temper the chocolate by hand for at least the first batch.

As you are already tempering by hand, this should not be an issue for you.

As for the difference between the two, it's really a question of how much you need to produce in a day, you match the working bowl capacity to your production. Chocovision offers a baffle that takes the Delta from about 4.25kg to about 8kg, and they also make a larger machine - at about 15kg and I hear there are even larger machines being worked on. With a Rev Delta and the holey baffle you should be able to temper 25kg per day or so.

Hilliards say The Little Dipper can do a max of about 12kg per day.

The difference in capacity could make it easy to choose one over the other.

Have you contacted Pacari directly? Are you sure you understand correctly?

It may be as you suspect, that they are using un-roasted beans to make the butter so that's why the consider it to be raw. If they're processing it to 100C then it's not raw by the definition of the raw chocolate community. That doesn't make their definition unconventional, you're just speaking different languages. You are speaking the language of the raw foodist community, they are speaking the language of cocoa processors.

I have a much more interesting question for you - and this is something I pose to everyone in the raw chocolate world when they start asking about cocoa butter: what is the evidence for any negative chemical changes in the cocoa butter that occur during processing at a higher (than 47 or thereabouts) temperature?

You can say it kills "living" enzymes (virtually all raw foodists do say that in my experience) ... but no one has ever been able to show me any credible, independent laboratory analysis of the differences between cocoa butters pressed from the same lot of beans that differ only in the temperature at which they were pressed. And no, neither David Wolff nor Gabriel Cousens meet the standard of credible and independent.

I would love to know if there are differences so I can talk about them knowledgeably, which is why I ask. I personally am not a fan of the taste of most of the raw chocolates I have tasted so, to me, I wonder if my sacrificing my pleasure in eating "cooked" chocolate is worth any supposed meaningful differences in health benefits.