Forum Activity for @Clay

Mark -

The way the rules have been read to me is that a product can be equated to a recipe. a 70% Dominican is one product, a 70% PNG another, and an 85% Dominican a third.

With respect to units, a 200gr bar counts as 5, 40gr bars. So 100, 200gr bars counts as 500 units because of the 40gr unit's availability. With 25+ grinders in NYC alone making as much as 80MT of chocolate/year, that's over 2,000,000 units/year. Assuming fewer than 20 recipes/products, then many if not all of them should be sporting nutrition labels - from the NY factory alone. Add in London (as is required by law) then pretty much everything should be.

Any way you look at it, it seems obvious that the MB should no longer eligible for the small business exemption. And it seems likely that they should not have been eligible to apply for the exemption that expires in 2016, but did so, anyway.

To me, this seems to be a continuation of the same arrogant, "The rules don't apply to us. Because, Mast Brothers." attitude that led them to be less-than-forthcoming about melting Valrhona early on. There is no reason why they cannot (and should not) be in compliance with the labeling laws today because they clearly have the financial resources to do so; compliance would not unduly burden them. Whatever their attitude towards openness and transparency (right?) it does not appear to extend to proper labeling. They could lead by example - do the right thing just because it's the right thing to do. But they still choose not to. 

One theory? The nutrition labels "ruin" the aesthetic.

What's up with that, anyway? 

The Bros  announced that they're leasing 65,000 square feet inside the Brooklyn Navy Yard’s $68 million Green Manufacturing Center. [ Gothamist got it wrong, saying that the Bros had signed a 68 million dollar lease. ]

Anyone have thoughts on what this means for the craft bean-to-bar chocolate community? 

The 6,000SF DTLA factory is not quite ready to rock, as apparently they don't have all the permits necessary to start production. I did a back-of-the-napkin calculation based on the number of grinders I could see in the photos posted on the Instagram account for their launch party, estimated salaries for the number of employees reported (about 15), and a reasonable ground rent based on comparables in the Arts District , and it looks like they need to generate a gross profit  (not gross sales) of north of $100k/mo to break even.

The investors have deep pockets and a corresponding appetite for risk. I wonder if they realize that they no longer qualify for the FDA small business nutrition labeling exemption and will act accordingly. I know it doesn't match their design aesthetic, but that's not an argument/excuse.

If there were just a few errors in grammar and translation it would be one thing. But the errors appear on every page, often many times on the same page.

But, far more troubling are the factual errors and the editorial inconsistencies that are present throughout the book.

You may like and enjoy the book and find it useful. I won't say anything to negate your experience of the book. I am sharing my impressions and insights that (as a published author) it's really hard to do a book at this scale with very little help. The results show that there was very little help, and the book - and the chocolate community - suffers from that lack. 

Cat -

Perfectly acceptable to put product in a food-safe inner bag inside an outer pack that is not.

One question might be how non-food-safe the tin is because people might empty out the contents of the inner bag into the tin once opened.

I know people who think highly of PBW - professional brewers wash - from Five Star Chemicals.

You don't actually create the classified in this post. You create a separate post.

Del:

You need to turn off the machine (from the control panel on/off and the master Schneider switch on the back) and then unplug it for five minutes. The master Schneider switch is thermo-magneto-resistive and it needs to be unplugged in order to reset itself.

While you are waiting for the reset you will also need to open up the machine and press the blue stop/reset button on the Schneider LR2K0306 module(s) on the electrical panel. Depending on the electrical configuration there may be 0, 1, or 2 of them.

Close up the machine, plug it back in, and then go through the turn-on order. Everything should be okay. 

If not, empty the machine - especially the tempering pipe - and contact FBM on Skype at FBMSRL. They are closed now, but they will see the request for tech support when they arrive in the morning. You should also send an email to Carlo Roveda at fbm@boscolo.it explaining the issue. They'll get back to you when they arrive in the morning.

:: Clay

I will be giving an AMA - Ask Me Anything - at 2:00. Hope to see some of you there!

One place you can go is Chocolates Nahua. If I recall correctly, Juan Pablo Buchert is a member here on TheChocolateLife.

Chris -

I agree with you totally. However, I have been involved in many discussions with chocolate makers where the idea of spending $15k as a CapEx for a butter press is way out of their budget.

I think one of the challenges is that many chocolate makers self–identify as "bean–to–bar" and their thinking ends at bars. There are a lot more things you can do with chocolate than just bars.

Are you looking for new or used?

There is no water in chocolate, so no emulsification is going on.

What could be happening is bad mixing, so I would try a couple of experiments.

1. Don't add any coconut oil to the chocolate as it's melting. (You are using seed chocolate during the cool-down phase, right?) Take some chocolate out and mix in the flavored oils. Do you still get the blooming?
2. Same as 1) but instead of adding the flavoring oil add the coconut oil and stir.
3. Same as 1) but mix the flavoring oil into the coconut oil and mix that into the tempered chocolate.

You want to make sure that you do a good job of mixing everything together so you don't get streaking, which is different from blooming.

I don't know if that will solve your problem - but we will know if the problem is that the coconut oil you're adding during the melting phase is what's getting in the way of proper tempering. 

Sebastian is right.

There is no way that I know of to know what the variety of cacao is just by looking at it. Size is not an indicator - either very large or very small.

Color doesn't say anything as there are "Trinitario-hybrid" varieties (I am thinking of the acriollados in Nicaragua) that can be 10-30% white or pale (lila).

Aroma and taste are no help either.

That said, if you have been working with the same beans from multiple origins for a long period of time you can learn to distinguish between those reliably. However that won't help you when it comes to other sources.

Chocolate makers don't normally refine what's left over after pressing the oil out of it - it get ground into cocoa powder!

If you added it back in to a chocolate recipe it would be the same as not removing the fat to begin with.

Melangeurs don't have the same physical limitations as ball mills. You might be able to refine what's left over after pressing the butter out of it. What you'd have is a low-fat cocoa mass that could be mixed with sugar and, instead of refining it, mold it, and use it for making hot chocolate.

Chris:

Many chocolate makers don't make their own cocoa butter because they are committed to two-ingredient chocolate. For most of the rest who do, $15k in CapEx is a lot of cocoa butter! My personal feeling is that if you're using butter from a different origin as the beans then it's single origin but most use a definition that only covers the beans.

Photos?

And please tell us more about how you are using the Chocovision and why (and when) you are adding coconut oil (a likely source of the problem) as well as the essential oils.

David:

I have seen the IMSA equipment in operation during the Salon del Cacao y Chocolate in Lima in 2015 as well as at a customer site in Lima in 2014. I can't recommend it. It looks good and the prices are decent, but there are some serious build quality issues, especially with the cracker/winnower.

Going with the requirement for no DIY ... 

I can second Sebastian's recommendation of a Binder oven, especially at the scale you are going to be working at and for the intended purpose. I know for a fact that a  Binder FD53  is used for making both the liquor and chocolate samples for the International Cocoa of Excellence Awards. If your budget stretches I would go for the next size up though it's not necessary. There are no special installation issues with this oven that you'd need to consider when using a drum roaster.

As for grinding and refining, at the scale you're talking about I don't see why you need a multi-step process of disc grinder, ball mill, and roll-refiner. Though otherwise expensive, you can get a 12kg/batch melangeur from Kudvic for under US$10,000 with clear lid and their automatic temperature control system.

[ Premier Chocolate Refiners (not the basic grinder) could be used instead of the Kudvic. The batch size is much smaller (about 2kg) but they are very cheap (less than $300 each) and so you could buy a dozen of them and be processing several different recipes at the same time. ]

These melangeurs are not conches, but with some added hot air flow they do a creditable job that is acceptable for your use case scenarios. I have a non-DIY recommendation for airflow for the Premier refiners.

For small batch cracking and winnowing I would recommend the machines from CPS (Commodity Processing Systems) in the UK. There are two winnower sizes, get the large one. Expect to spend about £3000 ($5000) before shipping.

Again at such a small scale and for chocolate for which there is no seed, I can recommend The Chocolate Wave . It's under US$7000 before shipping and can temper 2-3kg of chocolate in a couple of minutes. While you will need to learn how to temper properly (which us a good thing in any event), it's going to be a lot faster in use than a small-batch tempering machine from Chocovision.

I cannot recommend the Pomati T5 for tempering own-made chocolate. The entire cooling system is just too small (compressor capacity and length of the tempering auger) for consistent tempering results for chocolate that is even slightly more viscous than couverture.

While a temper meter like the Tricor is not a bad recommendation, if I recall correctly from talking with their tech guys (and Sebastian please correct me if I am wrong on this), is that it requires having a sample of properly tempered chocolate to compare against. So it's kind of a chicken and egg situation. You can't measure proper temper unless you have properly tempered chocolate to begin with. They do make a machine to measure rheology and that might be interesting.

I also have connections with a refrigeration supply company in the UK (Angel) that offers a 20-pan temperature and humidity–controlled fridge specifically for crystallizing and holding chocolate. It's about £4000 ($6500) before shipping from the UK.

I can help you get quotations and order machines from Kudvic, Chocolate Wave, and Angel Refrigeration. I don't have a connection at Binder or CPS but I can get them for you if you need. 

Chris:

The price is about US$14,000 for a 50kg/hr press (that's mass, not butter), before shipping. If you decide you want to place an order please do it through me so I can expedite and keep track of it for you.

Please use the following format to make it easier for people.

There are three parts. Whether you are selling or buying, what it is you are selling (F/S, For Sale) or WTB (Want to Buy), and where you are located. Each of these three parts should be separated a space-dash-space. See below:

For Sale / Wanted to Buy - What you are selling/looking for - Where you are (as precise as possible - country at least).

Examples:

• F/S - Used Batch Tempering Machine - Chicago
• WTB - Undeodorized Cocoa Butter - WA

Thanks.

Please also take a look at the guidelines for closing posts, which is also pinned.

Chris -

It's hard to tell who the original design/manufacturer of these presses is. Once a design becomes popular it gets knocked of then you end up with knockoffs of knockoffs and so on.

I have a copy of the info sheet on the Delani version of this press in Spanish. I don't see how I can attach it to this post but I have uploaded the file to my profile and you should be able to download it by clicking on this link .

Delani buys these presses from a manufacturer in China and ships them to Peru. There they are checked to make sure that they are wired properly and that there are no manufacturing defects. Delani also includes parts they manufacture that enable the press to operate more efficiently. And, as you can see in the photo on the info sheet they add an enclosure. Yeah, they are more expensive, but you get something that works, not something you're going to have to work on after you get it and before you put it into production.

If you are interested I can help arrange for a quote - I am representing Delani in the US.

Armin -

A quick search shows that neem leaves are used with cocoa in Ghana. There is nothing however about how the leaves are used.

Mariano -

It is only necessary to post in one forum. I am closing this one and asking that everyone comment on your post in the Tips forum .

A flow wrap machine uses rolls of film.

Miles -

The best way to update a post like this is to "close" the old post by selecting "Closed" after clicking on the light bulb icon. That will let the old post age off gracefully. You can then post a new Classified with the updated information.

You are looking for what is called a flow wrapping machine. 

Prices are based on the size of the film that can be handled (width and length) as well the number of pieces per hour that can be wrapped ++ options that include not wrapping when there is no product present, metal detectors, and more. It's important to keep in mind that you don't get what you don't pay for. Skimping out on features at purchase could lead to production struggles.

One key aspect of the design to inquire about is the ease of changing the knives. Some models make it easy - some make it very hard.

The FW 350TC  available from PAC Machinery (US) is one of the smallest I know of. I do not know the price and I do not know anyone who has one and have no information on how easy it is to adjust or to use. This is solely based on size, which is what you appear to be most concerned about.

When an item is bought or sold, please mark it is as such.

On the Forum page there is an icon of a light bulb. 

Click on it and select a status from among the list.

For Sale items should be marked SOLD.

Wanted to Buy items should be marked COMPLETED.

If your need is URGENT you can mark it as such after it's posted.

Thank you.

I think the issue here is that David is dealing with a government procurement process and the government is in Colombia.

There is probably no budget for a consultant to make sense of what has been specified and it may not be possible to move money around between line items even if the items or wrong or the money can be better spent in other ways.

Right or wrong, that may be the reality of the situation David faces.

One effect is not better than the other, they are different.

If what you want to do is decorate a shell mold with a high-gloss sheen and air-brush/spatter pattern(s) (Norman Love is the acknowledged innovator and master at this technique) then you want to use cocoa butter.

Spraying chocolate gives you a flock/textured effect and is not normally used on confections but cakes and sculptures.

There is a total difference. You'd use uncolored cocoa butter as the first layer in the mold is going to give you a shiny surface. Them you build up the layers of color in reverse before filling the mold with chocolate to create the shell.

The more colorant you add to the cocoa butter the more opaque it becomes.

David:

You are asking us to do the impossible because we don't have enough information to answer your questions. Without knowing how much chocolate you need to make, making a recommendation - any recommendation - is not helpful to you.

That said, to the best of my knowledge, there are no small ball mills at the prices you say you need, except maybe for machines I would not trust to arrive broken, break down immediately, or be made with non-food-safe materials. Search on Alibaba to see what I mean.

Daniel, Peter:

Can we please move the conversation about the universal to another thread? I don't want to take over David's thread.

:: Clay

There are airbrushes specifically designed to spray colours. A good  source for information about them is Chef Rubber (www.chefrubber.com).

You use these to spray colored cocoa butter, which is quite fluid.

Generally, if you want to spray chocolate you would use a spray gun made for paint (e.g., Wagner Power Painter), or you can purchase a spray gun specifically made for chocolate (e.g., Krebs).

Thanks for the comments on my avatar. A friend of mine who is a macaron baker (ex- art director) in Amsterdam did it for me.

What does reasonably–priced mean to you? What you think is expensive might be cheap to someone else. It's important to consider where your market is - you can charge more in most big cities than in small towns so cost of chocolate is one thing to be factored in. Right now there are too many unknowns.

In what quantities do you want to buy? It may be that prices are high because you are buying in small quantities. As for a basis for comparison, take a look at the prices for couverture on Chocosphere.com and on Amazon.com. You should to that before you come back with more questions.

Lauren -

There are two different issues at play here:

1. What chocolate you want to use.
2. What company you are going to buy the chocolate from.

For example, you might purchase Guittard directly (a pallet at a time) or in smaller amounts through a company like Ciao Imports or Sysco.

If you were interested in using Felchlin you'd be in touch with Swiss Chalet Fine Foods out of Miami who would connect you with a local rep.

Chocosphere is a source for many different brands of chocolate for tasting and testing.

I would focus first on what chocolate brand(s) you want to use and then figure out the best supplier, which includes factors such as shipping and availability (do they always have what you want in stock).

PS. - Chocoley probably does not "make Belgian chocolate." What they do most likely is contract with a manufacturer that is associated with Belgium who supplies them product on a private-label basis. It could be Barry-Callebaut (which is really a Swiss company, now), but the product could be manufactured in Belgium - or in Vermont or Canada.

I found this review on Amazon which confirms some of my thoughts:

I ordered this bowl to help me temper chocolate, it didn't.

Firstly if you think the heating element runs up the sides of the bowl your wrong, it gets heated by the very very bottom of the bowl, um, so if you were to say place 2 pounds of chocolate in it... maybe the very bottom melts... the rest just sits there, way faster to just place in microwave.

You will have the same problem once you get your choclate into temper the "range" you get doesnt allow you to stay between say 87 and 92 (by 93 your out of temper).

If you take a thermal gun and take readings up the sides of the bowl (even a mere inch off the bottom) the temperature drops off so quickly...

Ridiculous waste off money, sad because I had high hopes...

They need to redesign this thing...

Lauren:

I think this is a very interesting product but two of the primary concerns I had about it were temperature range and accuracy. According to Kitchen Aid:

Precision Temperature Technology (?)

Select any temperature from 70 to 220 degrees F (21 to 104 degrees C) in two degree increments.

So the precision is not all that precise ... when it comes to working with chocolate. I can see how it would be great for a home kitchen where tempering chocolate is an occasional thing, but maybe not so much for the professional kitchen. My guess is that it's actually ± 1C, which is 1.9F.

That said, as Brad suggests ... if I already have the right model of Kitchen Aid mixer getting one of these and playing with it is probably worth the investment and I can see it as fast and efficient chocolate melter in conjunction with a scraper blade.

Lauren -

Welcome to TheChocolateLife!

David -

Sebastian is right, of course. Without knowing what you want to produce and how much you need to make in any given time it's very difficult to know where to direct you.

Daniel -

Did you buy them roasted or did you roast them yourself. If you roasted them yourself, did they look this way before you roasted them?

I know several makers who have Cacao Cucina equipment. It's value is that it is NSF certified and made with UL listed parts and adhere to all sorts of safety regulations. Therefore, they tend to be expensive for what they offer. People like the cracker/winnowers, even though they are expensive. The one piece of equipment I've seen in use that I just cannot recommend at all is the liquor grinder.

Caotech and Buhler are both highly-respected companies so I would have no problems recommending equipment from either of them. It's a matter of capacity and pricing. 

By lab conche, you refer to a "universal?"

David:

With regard to the error, you are trying to enter some HTML directly into your post that is not allowed - or something the software thinks is HTML. One reason is to keep people from posting arbitrary Javascript. Were you using any pointy brackets "<" or ">"?

To the best of my knowledge there are no ball mills at the price point you mention, lab or otherwise — even very small ones.

I know of a source for a two-roll refiner (granite or steel, 300mm wide, low-speed) for under €10,000. Three-roll refiners (granite or steel, 400mm wide) are €12,000 or so. Both are plus shipping.

Greg -

You should try to replace the strings with ones of the same diameter. If you are uncertain what that is, contact the manufacturer or a reseller here in the US, who would also have the tools.

Some people I know put their guitars on a half-size (short) bun rack (speed-rack). They can found for $60-$120 through online stores. They can also cost $300+ but a search should reveal a good price.

You can try a silicone mat to see if you like it. Most people I know use acetate as you'll get a smoother surface.

TheChocolateLife is what you make of it.

It's a fabulous repository of information and discussion going back over eight years now.

Posting into one of the main forum areas almost always gets responses - and often many of them; not many people say hello