Forum Activity for @Clay

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
08/16/16 11:14:56
1,692 posts



Noel:

You can't take your experience with the various processes of batch tempering and apply them to continuous tempering.

The chocolate that comes out of the pipe - when it's in cooling mode - is the temperature set in the cooling cycle. 30.5C you say. That drops into a bowl of chocolate that is heated and whose sole purpose is to melt out all the crystals before it exits the drain at the bottom and runs through the tempering pipe.

When the chocolate is melted and before you turn the cooling cycle on, the temperature of the chocolate in the bowl should be fairly even. The longer you let it run, the more even it will be. There is a thermocouple on the outside of the bowl and that's there the temperature is measured.

When you turn the cooling cycle on, the temperature of the chocolate coming through the spout drops. (The thermocouple is right at the top of the tempering pipe.)

Eventually, you start pumping 30.5C chocolate into a bowl of warm chocolate whose max temp is 47C ... and you start mixing them together. If you put a probe thermometer in the bowl you will not get consistent temperature readings. This is to be expected. You don't really care what the temperature is anywhere in the bowl except at the very bottom by the drain. All you care about is what temperature ensures that crystals are melted out before the chocolate re-enters the tempering pipe. If there are still crystals there is the risk of a positive feedback cycle leading to over-crystallization.

From a consistency perspective you want to keep the working bowl at least two-thirds full while working. Don't empty the bowl. The emptier the bowl the harder the heating and cooling systems have to work. You'll quickly get into a rhythm where you fill some molds, then do some other work (moving molds to cooling, de-molding, etc). While you're doing this other work put chocolate into the bowl and allow the tempering cycle to re-establish itself. If you can put melted chocolate into the bowl and the chocolate is about the same temp as the cooling temp then you won't interrupt the tempering cycle and can resume work immediately.

But - the important take-away is that a probe thermometer inserted into the working bowl will not return any useful information. The temperatures will be different throughout the bowl. That's to be expected - it's the way it works. One thing to note about the geometry of the working bowls in FBM machines is that they are narrow and deep. This design reduces wasted heat - wide shallow bowls are less energy efficient. The design also provides more time for the chocolate in the bowl to melt out crystals.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
08/16/16 09:59:30
1,692 posts

Straight Through Chocolate Moulding line for solid bars


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques


The Selmi line you show is not for molds. That setup requires a TOP with mold loader accessory, Tank400, and cooling tunnel - plus room for the cooling tunnel. Last I checked it was in excess of US$70k.

You can get a new Unica from FBM with your choice of 50/100/200kg tanks, pneumatic depositor with mold loader, and CLIMA 50 folded/vertical cooling tunnel for less than the Selmi equivalent.

If you want to cool in a room or fridge instead of using a cooling tunnel I'd need to know how many molds/bars hour/day you want to produce and to think about the options. You can build a room (I know someone producing >10K bars/day that way) or get specialized humidity-controlled chocolate crystallization fridges.

I also know of a way to DIY a cooling tunnel using chest freezers and PID temperature controllers ... if you have the room.


updated by @Clay Gordon: 08/16/16 10:01:01
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
08/16/16 09:40:17
1,692 posts

Need Opinions on Cooling Fridge or Tunnel


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Is this on the surface or all the way through? What's the texture of the bars that ar affected?

Do you have a recording thermometer/hygrometer? What's the temperature of the room ... and what's the temperature of the fridge?

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
08/15/16 14:33:02
1,692 posts

Need Opinions on Cooling Fridge or Tunnel


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

When you say "This is proving to be unsatisfactory" can you provide some more information about what ways? Throughput? Quality?

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
08/13/16 10:55:28
1,692 posts

overcrystalization?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Sebastian:

If you're working with milk chocolate, you may need a little more seed; dark chocolate (w/o AMF in it) will require a little less seed.

AMF = Anhydrous Milk Fat (aka butter oil)

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
08/12/16 16:55:29
1,692 posts



There are no books that cover the topics you ask about.

However, I can answer any questions you have about FBM continuous tempering machines. Do you have a 12kg Compatta or a 15kg Compatta?

About assessing temper. Learn to do it by hand. Even if you have a continuous machine - it will only do what you tell it to do. If you don't know what proper temper is you can't tell the tempering machine what to do.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
08/12/16 12:17:57
1,692 posts

Industrial chocolate auction


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Sebastian - Thanks for sharing!

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
08/11/16 15:20:20
1,692 posts

Opinion: Pomati OSD 5 one-shot bar moulding line


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Calum -

As a point of comparison:

2xMaestrias (45kg) with pneumatic depositors (maximum size of inclusion of about 3mm) will cost you under €50,000 total. 2x200kg melters cost under €20,000. Mold loaders add another €15,000 all in.

FBM is introducing a new one-shot in the Fall but I don't have pricing on it (won't until after they return from holidays) and I don't know what the max inclusion size is on the one-shot but I will ask.

A 50 mold vertical cooling tunnel is under €30k and the 100 mold tunnel is under €40k.

If you wanted to buy all this equipment, I quoted catalog list prices above - I am confident FBM could take care of you.

The customer doing so many bars a day has some products where the inclusions are mixed in (such as flaked coconut) and others where the inclusions are vibrated in.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
08/10/16 11:39:22
1,692 posts

Opinion: Pomati OSD 5 one-shot bar moulding line


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Calum -

When you say that the Pomati line you link to in the PDF is extremely expensive - what do you mean? And, when are are adding nut inclusions, what is the maximum size of the inclusion that the Pomati line can handle?

Personally, I would not invest everything in a single line. Single point of failure and the overhead involved in changeover is going to be significant. By having parallel lines - two or more - you reduce these risks and costs. If you are producing different kinds of work I would look to create solutions tailored to the work being done rather than one line that needs to be reconfigured for each different type of product.

I have one customer here in the US who is doing 10,000 bars per day each using FBM Maestrias, each backed by a 200kg melter. They build a custom cooling solution (room). All of the bars have some sort of addition (powders, inclusions) in them. 

Assuming 200 working days/year, 400,000 bars is about 2,000 bars per day. At five molds/minute and three cavities/mold, that's 900 bars/hour. If each bar is 50gr you need 45kg/hr of tempered chocolate. The T20 which is quoted in the line has a max throughput of 24kg/hr so right away I see a problem - you need a larger tempering machine.

The current Maestria has a 45kg working bowl and can temper up to 135kg/hr. FBM is introducing a new Maestria in the Fall with a 60kg working bowl and three-zone tempering. The Unica will be upgraded to a larger working bowl as well, at least 35kg if not 40kg, giving it a throughput of 70-80kg/hr. FBM offers a pneumatic depositing option for the Maestria and the Unica (and both offer three-zone tempering) or consider a one-shot machine that they plan to introduce in the Fall as well.

Of the companies in Italy offering this type of equipment, Pomati is the youngest. I can't speak to the large machines because I have not opened the backs and looked inside, but the smaller machines tend to have underpowered motors which can affect longevity when they're put into high-duty-cycle operation.

:: Clay

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
08/07/16 10:18:45
1,692 posts

Chocolate Refrigeration


Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)

Helion:

@Clay What would you recommend as an ideal cooling time, assuming a temperature of around 55F?

Bearing in mind our coolers are not humidity controlled.

Is there an ideal chocolate temperature that the bars should reach before removal from the fridge for packing?

There is no simple answer because I don't know what kind of molds you are using (thermoform has different heat transfer characteristics than polycarbonate), the dimensions of the mold cavity (the thicker the bar the longer it takes), the temperature of the chocolate (it will take longer if the temper point is 32C compared with 30C), and the amount of airflow in the cabinet (how efficiently are you removing the latent heat of crystallization - which can be affected by what the molds are resting on). 

I don't know about the temperature the bar has to reach (outside? how do you measure the internal temperature?) but there are some important clues: what does the surface look like and what is the snap? A soft snap is an important clue that the bar is not yet fully crystallized.

All that said, in a 55F cabinet with chocolate at a 30-32C temper point (86-90F) in a polycarbonate mold with good airflow top and bottom - you are looking at 12-15 minutes minimum.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
08/04/16 10:23:19
1,692 posts

WANTED: Chocolate Making Equipment in UK


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

bullionchocolate:

I do know them, but we are looking to purchase used equipment rather than new. We are wanting to scale up our production to 300 bars per week and have been looking at cocoa town eg65 and a russian provider called kudvic. But we are interested in any brands that will fulfil that sort of production level. 

I personally don't know anyone who's selling used equipment for this scale of production.

You may find someone selling used in the UK here in the classifieds on TheChocolateLife. CocoaTowns and their ilk are likely, I have no idea if there is any used Kudvic machinery, but they are comparatively expensive, per kilo of batch capacity, new. You could contact CPS to see if they know of any used equipment.

Malcolm at Vantage House may also know of used items.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
08/03/16 11:01:38
1,692 posts

WANTED: Chocolate Making Equipment in UK


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Do you know Vantage House ? They handle pretty much everything you need if you are interested in smaller-scale production. How much chocolate do you want to make in a given day/week/month?

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
08/02/16 12:42:17
1,692 posts

Chocolate Refrigeration


Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)

@helion:

Thanks for the kind words ... but it is the community that does most of the important work here by being open and sharing.

50F is too cold. 55F is better.

Do you have a digital hygrometer in your work space? If not, get one. Ideally it will log the humidity over the course of the day and you can download that into a computer and keep track. If not it should measure the current humidity and the peak humidity over the past 24 hours.

A good starting working humidity is ~55%. The closer you can keep the entire work space at that level or below the easier your job will be. Humidity in the air will always condense on a colder surface if the humidity is above the dew point and the temperature of the surface is below the dew point.

Your best approach is to work to keep the ambient environment humidity (temp is ideally ~68-72F) as close to 55% as you can. You can do this with a dehumidifier - try and get one that exhausts the humidity into the warm exhaust air and then pipe the exhaust to the exterior. This will remove the humidity from the space and you will not have to plumb the humidifier to a drain or constantly dump buckets.

Just having a cabinet that lowers the humidity will not address your condensation problem. You can increase the temperature of the cabinet (up to 60F or so) but that will increase the amount of time required to cool. Increasing the airflow may help with that, to some extent, but you do have to remove the heat from the cabinet.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
08/01/16 09:48:37
1,692 posts

Info wanted for low priced Enrobing Machine and Chocolate Temperer


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE


Kim:

I have uploaded the current catalog page for the Prima that lists the prices and accessories. Click on this link to go to the file download page and then click on the PDF icon to download the file.

There is a Prima going to IBIE in October and it's 20% off, plus you pay only shipping from Las Vegas. I am confirming the electrical configuration (might be 3-phase). Another ChocolateLife member has already expressed interest in it, but we can extend the show discount to you, even if we can't offer shipping from Las Vegas.

:: Clay


updated by @Clay Gordon: 08/01/16 09:52:39
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
08/01/16 09:27:06
1,692 posts

F/S - FBM IBIE Show Specials


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

R. "Curly" Caporuscio:

Sounds good Clay,

I am planning to come to LV. Not sure yet if I will be driving or flying so shipping could be an option. I am located in St Petersburg, FL.

Please forward me the prices at your convenience.  bcurly@msn.com

Thank You,

Curly

Will do!

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
08/01/16 09:26:49
1,692 posts

F/S - FBM IBIE Show Specials


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Sarah Ann -

I will get you pricing info to your email within the next 48 hours.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
08/01/16 09:25:28
1,692 posts

what is praline, as an ingredient?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Christopher is right in saying that it can be made quite easily. A Robot Coupe should easily be handle it depending on the consistency you're looking for. Smaller blenders (even Vita Mixes) are underpowered in my experience.

You can also purchase praliné paste. Callebaut is one option, as are Felchlin, Valrhona, and others. I would look to AgriMontana as well (they, along with Domori, are owned Illy) but they make the nut ingredients for Domori. Very good. But - take a look at the ingredients list, especially on cheaper products as they may not be clean label.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
08/01/16 09:20:43
1,692 posts

Chocolate Refrigeration


Posted in: Geek Gear - Cool Tools (Read-Only)

Calum -

Vantage House is a UK distributor for Everlasting, which is located in Italy. I am representing Everlasting in the US through another distributor.

The largest unit accepts 20, full-size sheet (US) pans. Temperature control as well as humidity control. These are also fast recovery time units, which means they return to the set temperature and humidity points very quickly. There is also two-door unit which reduces air transfer when opening and closing doors.

These units are designed to crystallize and hold chocolate and do a good job at it. I would use perfed sheet pans. Let me know and I can get some pricing for you.

To address the point @helion brings up: humidity is more of an issue in some locations than others. I don't know where you are located, but in general, being able to control the humidity in the environment is a very good idea. Controlling humidity within the fridge (not just in the room) provides extra control that is valuable, it's not a replacement for humidity control in the working space.

A PID temperature controller is one way to take a fridge that does not operate in the 55F range and get it to operate there. It does this by turning the unit on and off. Robust compressors are an absolute necessity when cycling like this.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
07/31/16 14:35:05
1,692 posts

what is praline, as an ingredient?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques


Praline is one of the most overloaded words in chocolate, and what you are talking about depends on spelling and pronunciation. The origin of the term is reputed to be the household of the Gilbert Choiseul du Plessis-Praslin, where caramelized nuts were first accidentally cooked.

Praline (pray-leen). The words the Belgians use the way the French use bon bon. Usually a shell-molded piece, but it can refer to hand-rolled and slabbed/enrobed pieces as well.

Praliné (prah-li-nay). This is a caramelized nut paste. However, it can also refer to caramelized nuts (especially when referring to the products of Mazet de Montargis). A coarse (not completely refined) praliné is often referred to as praliné l'ancienne (ancient).

Praline (prah-leen). This is what Christopher is referring to as being from New Orleans. Usually a disk of caramelized sugar (below hard crack) dotted with pecans.


updated by @Clay Gordon: 07/31/16 14:37:39
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
07/31/16 14:15:40
1,692 posts

F/S - FBM IBIE Show Specials


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Curly -

FBM is officially closed for most of the month of August. I will reach out to the president and see what can be done. I think that it is highly likely - and we can offer you the 20% discount.

If we can get the order in right when FBM reopens (we can work on that in the next couple of weeks) we can get it made and ship it to you. Would you be planning to come to LV to see the ProXima in operation and get some training on it?

It could make sense to ship the enrober directly to you (you'd be on the hook for international shipping) rather than via LV. Where are you located?

:: Clay

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
07/27/16 15:14:58
1,692 posts

WTB - Used Selmi Top EX (Modesto, CA)


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Aly -

Where are you located?

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
07/26/16 11:50:26
1,692 posts

F/S - FBM IBIE Show Specials


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE


IBIE Show Special Offers

  • 20% discount off list price
  • Customs cleared (permanent entry)
  • Only pay shipping from Las Vegas (plus re-crating fee)
  • Ships from Las Vegas after the show (October 8-11)
    • OR pick up from LVCC after the show
  • ProXima and Maestria are 208~220V 60Hz 3-phase; Prima is  208~220V 60Hz single-phase

FBM Prima  - SOLD

FBM ProXima  - SOLD

NEW FBM Maestria60

  • 60kg working bowl (was 45kg)
  • Prearrangement to accept enrober belt and mold loader
  • Craft Chocolate upgrade
  • Pneumatic doser w/ auger speed controller

Contact Clay Gordon if you are interested.

Payment must be made in full before the end of the show.


updated by @Clay Gordon: 04/07/25 13:00:14
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
07/25/16 19:29:23
1,692 posts

Pomati Tempering machine?


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE


Peter:

FBM has developed a response to your concerns about interrupting the flow of chocolate when depositing into molds.

In most tempering machines that use augers to transport the chocolate through the pipe the flow of chocolate is controlled by starting and stopping the auger. When this happens repeatedly over a short period of time the dwell time of the chocolate in the pipe changes, which can change temper. Plus, because the flow of chocolate is not constant the rate of melting in the bowl is not constant, leading to over-crystallization.

FBM offers, as an option on some of its machine, a pneumatically-controlled doser. When installed, a pneumatic valve (i.e., one that is operated by compressed air) is installed at the top of the tempering pipe. When closed (the default position) the chocolate is diverted down a separate pipe into the working bowl. When the dosing function is activated, the valve opens and the chocolate flows to the mold. After the desired time, the valve closes. In other words, the tempering auger never stops turning and the flow of chocolate is never interrupted. This design eliminates virtually of the drawbacks associated with controlling the flow of chocolate by starting and stopping the auger.

I don't disagree with you about getting a machine that is larger than absolutely necessary, because parameter that affects the consistency of temper include how rapidly the amount of chocolate in the bowl changes and how full the bowl is. It's much harder to maintain temper when the bowl is one-quarter full than when it is full and when you're emptying the bowl faster than the nominal tempering capacity. (FBM's rule of thumb is that the tempering capacity/hr of a machine is 3x the bowl capacity - assuming the bowl is kept full.) However, in my experience, people tend to under-buy capacity because of the expense involved. Having an outboard melter that automatically keeps the working bowl of the tempering machine is a great option to consider if high throughput is required.

FBM also offers three-zone tempering on some of its machines. This can help quite a bit in fine-tuning and maintaining the consistency of temper over the course of work shift.

Of course, the chocolate(s) being used also affect the ability of a machine to reach temper in the first place as well as maintain temper over time.

Not surprisingly, the location of the thermocouples used to measure the temperature come into play, and it is possible that a thermocouple is not properly adjusted within the flow of chocolate. This can lead to difficulty in reaching and maintaining temper.

And, finally, there are differences in software that can account for some of this. FBM has, on its larger machines, a "soft" and a "hard" tempering curve. This refers to how aggressive the chocolate is cooled. In the soft setting the chocolate is cooled more slowly. In the hard tempering setting the chocolate is cooled quickly until it comes to within a set number of degrees above the temper point, and then cools more slowly. Some chocolates do not seem to work well with the more aggressive cooling cycle, so that's why the operator is given a choice.

Yeah, it's a lot to learn, but as I said earlier, the machines are not artificially intelligent. They only do what the operator sets them to do.


updated by @Clay Gordon: 07/25/16 19:31:10
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
07/24/16 14:46:59
1,692 posts

Pomati Tempering machine?


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

You are in the Dominican Republic? Rizek has three FBM machines that I am aware of, and are using them for their Kakaw brand. These are custom-built for them but I am not entirely sure of the extent of the customizations.

FBM machines are designed to be relatively easy to repair  - YMMV - once a problem has been diagnosed, and diagnosis is usually done via Skype w/FBM. Most of the parts can be sourced locally as the manufacturers FBM chooses tend to be global; overnight express freight is. If there is a compressor issue then you need a competent commercial refrigeration repair person to take care of that. Routine maintenance is always a good idea on any machine to stay ahead of potential problems.

No one other than FBM that I know of has offered up any bean-to-bar specific upgrades for their machines.

Batch tempering is an option. Many people in the bean-to-bar community use Savage melters for a variety of reasons, including some former FBM customers. The issues there were that the older machines they purchased were too small (mostly the tempering augers were too short) and when working with high viscosity chocolate it made finding and keeping temper really challenging. We've learned a lot about the variables working with high-viscosity chocolate over the past three years and are constantly improving the software and hardware to address the issues we run into.

The smallest FBM machine I'd recommend for bean-to-bar work is the new Compatta 15. Bigger working bowl, longer tempering auger (same length as in the Unica but smaller in overall diameter). Importantly, you can order the option to change the speed of the auger in 1% increments from the control panel, which is a game changer when it comes to nailing temper. 

FBM has just introduced a new 10kg batch tempering machine, the Quadro 10 . One of the main differences (apart from smaller size with respect to the Savage) is that it uses resistance wiring and a compressor to temper the chocolate instead of running water. This means no plumbing, no water bill, and no wasted water.

I don't think the batch tempering machines are more flexible or produce a better result than continuous tempering machines. They're just different and they impose a different set of operating thinking to use well. A continuous temperer, once you nail temper, will do a better job of keeping a chocolate in temper over the course of a day. Batch tempering machines tend to be slower to reach temper and the operator needs to be aware of changing conditions and manually make changes to maintain temper. (So make sure you have thermometer and hygrometer right by the machine.)

That said, there are always differences in approach and engineering decisions that require you to make a tradeoff. Is a Chocovision Z3 "better" than a Savage 50? Well, if you are not able to run the plumbing the Savage needs, then the Chocovision may be better. However, if you want greater throughput, Savage may be better. I don't know enough about your situation and chocolate to help you with that decision.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
07/24/16 14:00:29
1,692 posts

Pomati Tempering machine?


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Always happy to help as I can ... it's not always a straightforward choice.

Please let me know if there are questions I did not answer completely or at all where you still need some clarification.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
07/24/16 13:09:05
1,692 posts

Pomati Tempering machine?


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE


Alek -

There are no companies in the US making continuous tempering machines in the same class as the names you mention - Pomati, Selmi, FBM, Savy Goiseau, etc., and Gami, Bakon, Chocolate World ... names you did not mention.

If you can, I advise you to take a look inside the machines to see how they are made. What is the size of the tempering auger and pipe? How is the chocolate warmed and cooled? What safety features are in place to keep the operator from inadvertantly damaging the machine?

If you look at the evolution of the technology you will see that these all operate using a screw to transport chocolate from a working bowl where all the crystals are melted out through a cooled pipe to generate and mix the crystals. There is an originator of the technology and all of the follow-on brands are engineering copies to one extent or another. That's one of the reasons they all look so much alike.

However, it turns out the there are significant differences in things like the shape of the working bowl (e.g., deep and narrow versus wide and shallow), the auger and the pipe (e.g., the diameter of the pipe and the depth of the auger flights), and the position of the temperature sensors among other details, that make a difference with respect to overall tempering performance, including the ability to resist over-tempering over the course of the work day. In addition, some machines are heated and cooled with water jackets, some use heated resistance wire and recirculating cooling gas, and others use a combination of these techniques; and there are advantages and disadvantages to the various approaches. There are machines, from LCM and others, that use different approaches to tempering. The LCM approach, for example, makes it impossible (in their minds) to add a dosing option.

You should also pay close attention to the power of the motor driving the tempering auger (as well as the ratio of the gearbox) if you are going to be tempering two-ingredient (high viscosity) chocolate. I can tell you from experience that some motors are under-powered and will burn out faster than others. Two-ingredient chocolate also tends to be more abrasive than conventional couverture - especially that made in Indian wet-grinders - so that has an impact on the bearings and seals on the tempering motor, gearbox, and pipe.

Continuous tempering machines need to create and maintain a delicate balance of factors to temper and maintain temper. If you are making chocolate from beans, two different batches of the same recipe might not have identical tempering profiles. If they taste at all different and/or have a different mouth feel, the tempering will be different. This is one of the hardest points for some people to wrap their heads around. These machines are not artificially intelligent and they can only do what you tell them to do, and the vast majority of them are designed to work with commercial couverture that tend to be of a lower viscosity.

Other things to consider are the location the machine will be in. If it's in a kitchen that will never be seen by the public, how important is the sheet metal? Are you paying for bling or performance? Which is more important to you?

Another thing to consider is that some machines are made to order (so they can be customized) while most are built in advance and you can only buy stock configurations.

Finally, I have learned to pay attention to the following phrase, " You do not get what you don't pay for. "


updated by @Clay Gordon: 07/24/16 13:59:15
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
07/20/16 12:21:20
1,692 posts

How long do you grind your chocolate?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Viscosity is not just a matter of temperature (but that's part of it) - mostly a matter of fat percentage: the lower the fat content the higher the viscosity at any given temperature.

1200 RPM? 120, you mean. Why is 116F too hot?

Even with a chain drive it makes a lot of sense to schedule one weekend a month for maintenance. Take off the covers, look closely, vacuum out any dust that may have accumulated, etc. If you don't want to do it monthly, then do it before you enter into critical production periods. If the summer is slow and you start holiday production in September, schedule the maintenance for August so you can take care of it before it becomes an issue that interrupts production. Same for between Christmas and Valentine's Day, etc. It's only a few hours but it can save major frustration and downtime during key periods.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
07/20/16 11:34:54
1,692 posts

How long do you grind your chocolate?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques


While many people fill the bowl above the axle, that's not a good idea, as it reduces the efficiency of the machine.

Sure, you are processing more product at the same time, but the extra processing time does not seem to be linear: overfilling by 10% increases processing time by greater than 10%.

Viscosity is what is going to affect the longevity of the grinder. The thicker the chocolate the greater the strain on the motor at any given level of pressure.

The belts are likely to go before the motor. Routine maintenance, including changing belts, is an important part of getting the most out of any grinder.


updated by @Clay Gordon: 07/20/16 11:37:11
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
07/19/16 12:50:44
1,692 posts

Aging chocolate - what is the real taste of my chocolate?


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Y -

Most chocolate is made to be eaten more or less immediately, or manufacturers rely on the length of the supply chain (typically months between when a chocolate is made and it ends up on a shelf to be sold) to take care of aging. I think this is one of the reasons that there has not been a lot of research into what happens to the flavor of chocolate as it ages.

I was speaking with an expert on this a couple of weeks ago, and was told that it takes 6-8 weeks for most chocolates to achieve reasonable stability (defined as ~80% of expected flavor change). My own experience suggests that chocolates made from beans with lower levels of fermentations and/or lower roast levels requires more aging than chocolates made from  beans meeting the 80% well-fermented "standard" and that have been roasted harder.

I have not come across any research that explains what happens, but chemical changes are happening, and, as the chocolate continues to crystallize, the release of flavors is also affected.

The answer to the question, "How long?" can only be determined by experimentation using your recipes. I had a chocolate made with Mexican pimienta about 48 hours after it was made and then 10 days after it was made and the flavor of the pimienta was more pronounced, not less.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
07/18/16 12:46:22
1,692 posts

Info wanted for low priced Enrobing Machine and Chocolate Temperer


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Aimee -

There are very few  small tempering machines that accept enrobers.

Chocovision makes one that fits some of their machines, but from what I have heard, it does not work all that well. There is no blower (to remove excess chocolate) nor is there a de-tailer, or a proper take-off, so it's messy and slow. It also looks like it's a single curtain so there could be coverage issues. From what I can tell looking at the Chocovision web site they are working on a new one . Perhaps it will have engineering upgrades to address the issues early customers brought up.

Hilliard's offers a couple of size options for their " coaters " based on batch temperers. From the pictures on the site it's hard to tell how complete the base systems are but I don't see what I would consider to be required components for a fully-featured enrober on their smaller systems (e.g., blower, exit section, de-tailer, take-off). That said - there are a lot of them in production so people must like them.

There are a number of manufacturers of continuous tempering machines - you may know names like Selmi and Pomati. I work with one of them (FBM) and to my knowledge FBM is the only company that offers a complete enrobing system on a small continuous temperer - the Prima

I say small in relative terms. The Prima has a 10kg (~22lb) working bowl and can temper up to 30kg (~65lbs) of chocolate per hour. The belt is 18cm (about 7") wide. When you think about it, if you need to put 500 pieces per hour (about eight pieces per minute) through the machine and each piece requires 10gr of chocolate to cover it completely, then you only need 5kg of chocolate per hour. Other companies that make continuous tempering machines do not offer enrober belts on machines with bowl capacities of less than 25kg (75kg/hr throughput).

The enrober FBM offers is complete. It comes in two parts, a working section that is comprised of the entry section, bottomer (sometimes called a pre-bottomer), double-curtain veil, net beater, blower, de-tailer rod; and a separate take-off section.

It is not inexpensive, but as people are probably tired of hearing me say, "You don't get what you don't pay for." If you are interested I can introduce you to a dealer who can price one for you.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
07/13/16 17:26:33
1,692 posts

Fermentation Scientist in the making


Posted in: Allow Me to Introduce Myself

Steve: 

Post-harvest processing of cacao happens at many different scales, from very small to very large. Ironically, it is the smallest producers who might benefit most from improving the consistency of fermentation and drying ... and they are the least able to afford it. However, one way to figure out how to drive down costs is to start somewhere and put the equipment and techniques into production.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
07/03/16 12:51:32
1,692 posts

Fermentation Scientist in the making


Posted in: Allow Me to Introduce Myself

Caitlin - 

Congrats on your journey of discovery ... though I do have to disagree that no one is teaching this stuff. The project I am working on in Mexico includes Zoi Papalexandratou, who has a PhD in cacao fermentation from the University of Brussels. You can go see the results of her work at the Ingemann post-processing center in Las Maderas, Nicaragua. Ingemann offers six different fermentation protocols from the same varietal (Chuno).

There is growing understanding of the contribution of the base chemistry of the bean and the pulp, and how that interacts with the species of yeasts, acetobacter, and lactobacillus that dominant in the region.

I would recommend searching for Zoi's name for research papers she has (co-)authored and then look for papers published by the other cited researchers. You'll see that there is a lot of work being done in this area and that some of that research is being put into production around the world.

In my experience, bean-to-bar chocolate makers need more training on what "properly fermented" truly means ... as the accepted standard of "80% well-fermented probably only applies to bulk varietals destined to be be made into chocolate for mass-market chocolate candies.

:: Clay

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
07/03/16 12:43:58
1,692 posts

How to deodorize cocoa butter???


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Alan -

Cocoa butter is deodorized using one or more of the following methods:

  • High temp/pressure steam is used to drive off volatile aromatics.
  • Solvent extraction (e.g., hexane).
  • Using a flocculant (e.g., diatomaceous earth) to remove proteins (e.g., carotene). You then need to filter out the flocculant, along with any small particles of non-fat cocoa solids that may remain.

If you have a way to get the butter hot (over 70C), agitate it, and blow a lot of hot air over the surface, you may be able to drive off some of the aroma. Using the diatomaceous earth will make it lighter in color, but as I point out you need a filter.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
06/11/16 14:08:32
1,692 posts

opinions for tempering wheel?


Posted in: Opinion

Mark -

FBM will be offering a 10kg batch tempering machine in the very near future. Instead of using running water to maintain temperature it uses a compressor for cooling and electrical resistance wire for heating.

I don't know about a depositor for it, yet. You might be able to fit a Peppy Pumper to the tank. (There is a pump for the Savage tanks made by Savage Bros but people I know who have used both prefer the Peppy Pumper.)

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
06/08/16 10:39:21
1,692 posts

regrinding chocolate in melangeur


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

LLY - 

Where are you located?

If I purchase a commercial couverture that has lecithin in it I can incorporate ingredients that need to be ground in (coffee beans for example). I would depend a lot on the ingredients to be ground in.

There is a maximum amount of lecithin that can be added to a recipe before it starts to have the reverse effect, and you want to add the lecithin as late as possible in the process.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
06/04/16 14:23:56
1,692 posts

Cocoa butter and cocoa solids


Posted in: Tasting Notes

Spectral Engines has a new NIR instrument: http://www.spectralengines.com/applications/food-composition that has some interesting (at least to me) aspects.

Unity Scientific also has an NIR instrument - but importantly it has databases of characterized samples that could serve as baseline measurements. I think the machine is under $30k.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
06/04/16 14:16:41
1,692 posts

raw chocolate & modica chocolate


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Mark -

Raw and Modican chocolate are not necessarily the same thing. 

The whole idea with raw is to purposefully keep the temperature below a certain degree with the specific intent of not killing "living enzymes" or reducing the nutrient content of the beans.

Modican chocolate is a specific style that pre-dates the industrial revolution. It was very difficult to apply enough pressure to reduce particle size. I have never heard that temperature was a control point for Modican chocolate. Can you point me to some manufacturers that state this? Doña Elvira? Antica Dolceria Bonajuto?

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
06/04/16 12:25:33
1,692 posts

Brand new 3 roll mill for chocolate production for sale


Posted in: Classifieds ARCHIVE

Where is the mill located? And who is the maker?

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
05/27/16 14:08:03
1,692 posts

bean to bar chocolate %'s question - help needed to put mind at rest


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

When calculating it's important to know that cocoa beans generally range in fat from 47-53%. Most chocolate manufacturers don't provide the ratio fat to non-fat solids, including any added cocoa butter in their recipes. You can get this information on most commercial couvertures by asking the manufacturer. However, if you do not actually test the bean (or liquor) you don't know the precise fat content so it's impossible to know the ratio of fat to non-fat solids in your product -- and hence, calories from fat and other nutritional data.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
05/27/16 13:23:09
1,692 posts

bean to bar chocolate %'s question - help needed to put mind at rest


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

James Hull:

cocoa mass = 'the brown part' produced from pressing the liquour/solids i.e. cocoa powder

James: 

Cocoa mass == cocoa liquor == chocolate liquor == ground up cocoa (nib) with nothing added.

To make cocoa butter/cocoa powder, you put the cocoa mass/liquor into a press and apply heat and pressure to separate them.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
05/27/16 13:20:23
1,692 posts

bean to bar chocolate %'s question - help needed to put mind at rest


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques


Potomac Chocolate:

So, I would probably say that the statement that there are no cacao solids in white chocolate is incorrect.

Everything from the cocoa bean is technically a cocoa solid. There are two types of solids:

  1. Non-fat cocoa solids (the powder with zero fat)
  2. Fat (cocoa butter is solid at room temperature)

updated by @Clay Gordon: 05/27/16 13:20:40
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
04/28/16 02:27:37
1,692 posts

Smallest chocolate wrapping machine


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Ask the manufacturer. But generally, no. 

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